Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Wireless Networking Hardware

Wi-Fi World Record 235

supersam writes "Interline Wireless Technology, a Polish company has reportedly set a world record in stretching the range of a Wi-Fi network for an amazing 110 Kms at 2.4 GHz. They achieved this using an antenna developed by them and an INTEL Pro/Wireless 2011 Access Point."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Wi-Fi World Record

Comments Filter:
  • Re:Wi-Fi jargon (Score:0, Informative)

    by CausticWindow ( 632215 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @08:57AM (#7032952)

    It's just the speed of the signal. It translates to about 450 mph.

    Didn't use to make much sense to me either, but then I took a bs in cs.

  • by 192939495969798999 ( 58312 ) <[info] [at] [devinmoore.com]> on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @08:58AM (#7032957) Homepage Journal
    or 66 miles for the math impaired (sigh). Still, that's rad! You could access that across the English channel!
  • Re:110 Km? (Score:2, Informative)

    by dcordeiro ( 703625 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:01AM (#7032989)
    FYI,
    google calculator [google.com] says its something like:
    110 kilometers = 68.3508311 miles
  • by tbase ( 666607 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:04AM (#7033006)
    Hey - that antenna they're using looks a lot like the one from this story [slashdot.org]. Of course, he only claims a LOS range of 10 Miles.
  • by JRHelgeson ( 576325 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:04AM (#7033014) Homepage Journal
    We /. the site, and it's not even in english. Who's going to RTFA when it's in polish?

    Anyone got a Polish->English translator?

    I checked Google, Babblefish & Dictionary.com with no luck.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:05AM (#7033018)
    68.350831 miles, actually
  • by miodekk ( 680870 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:07AM (#7033032)
    The folks used devices that are freely available on the market (WiFi or WLAN PCMCIA cards, amplifier, antennas, etc), chosen locations within the range of about 66 miles (110 km) with visibility (to achieve this you must see the other point).
    So this is a relatively cheap method to get Internet access in distant locations, specifically in mountains, where it is difficult to get a wire.

    Regards

  • Some details... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sherloqq ( 577391 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:07AM (#7033034)
    The article claims the experiment used off-the-shelf, commercially available, unmodified components (1.1m / 3.5ft parabolic antenna and a 500mW amplifier). Experiment was conducted in a mountainous region in southwestern Poland.

    So this isn't all that bad... considering the average laptop wireless card puts out, what, 20mW? 50mW? using a 500mW amp to achieve a much greater distance is pretty sweet. By comparison, the article quotes a Swedish experiment which used stratospheric baloons and a 6W amp, but they don't mention the distance achieved.

    Mind you, rules about how much power certain appliances / transmitters can put out with or without a permit vary across the globe, and I'm not sure whether 500mW is legal for private unlicensed use in Poland or not. But if it is, more power to them.

    Now, where can I get mine?? :)
  • by wherley ( 42799 ) * on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:08AM (#7033037)
    Here [newswireless.net]
    is the story from July of an outfit getting 310km using WiFi from ground to a balloon. This was done by Alvarion and the Swedish Space Corporation and acknowledged by Guinness (as in world records not as in beer).
  • Re:Wi-Fi jargon (Score:4, Informative)

    by EddWo ( 180780 ) <`moc.poptoh' `ta' `owdde'> on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:08AM (#7033039)
    Is this a joke?
    The speed of the signal is the speed of light.
    The frequency of the signal is 2.4GHz
    The distance the signal was received at was 110Km

    The wavelength was 299 792 458/2 400 000
    = 124.913524m

    I take it you never did any physics then
  • by Sherloqq ( 577391 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:12AM (#7033053)
    see "Some details" further down.
    I didn't translate, but I summarized the most important bits.

    Here's the equipment they used (which I didn't include in my other post):

    # Antennae - Interline PARABOLIC maxi, 27 dBi
    # Access Points - INTEL Pro/Wireless 2011 Access Point, made by SYBMOL
    # Cables and connectors - BELDEN H-1000, H-155, RG-316, VITELEC connectors
    # Wireless cards - Lucent ORiNOCO PC Card Silver/chipset Agere, ZCom XI-300/chipset Intersil
    # Amplifier - 2.4 GHz, 500 mW
  • by josecanuc ( 91 ) * on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:15AM (#7033068) Homepage Journal

    105 km is a good ways off. But Amateur Radio operators have been getting better than this with their voice transmissions (and possibly digital) on frequencies from 50 MHz to 10 GHz at the 2003 September VHF QSO Party.

    See some of their setups at http://www.arrl.org/contests/soapbox/?con_id=53 [arrl.org].

    Our university station was making contacts on frequencies greater than 2.4 GHz for distances longer than 200 miles. Contrary to common sense, Line-of-Sight is not necessarily required to get microwave transmissions to work over long distances. But they're very weak ;-)

  • by AmigaAvenger ( 210519 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:16AM (#7033077) Journal
    The article already is almost dead... Can't check how they did it, BUT... the biggest problem isn't signal power, that part is easy with even a minimal amp and decent parabolic grid antenna. The tough part is the curvature of the earth. Beyond 10 miles or so, you have to get your antennas substantially off the ground, otherwise the amps and high gain antennas make absolutely no difference...
  • Re:Some details... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sherloqq ( 577391 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:19AM (#7033090)
    Few more notes...

    Initially they didn't use an amp, and were getting 20% thruput, which allowed for a 1Mbps link to be established. That link kept going down every few seconds, tho, so they put in the amp. This boosted their RSS readings from 8 to 28, which meant 80% thruput. Having reached that, they tried to ftp a file and although they don't say how big it was, it was copied over at 40kBps, or around 0.5Mbps.

    I don't know about you, but seeing ping replies in the single digits and low teens while ~70miles away makes my spine tingle.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:19AM (#7033091)
    Mirror here [mq.edu.au] It's at uni, so I've no idea how long it will last...
  • by termos ( 634980 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:23AM (#7033116) Homepage
    or not? [newswireless.net].

    There isn't much to block a radio signal if you're in a balloon; so the news that Alvarion has managed to reach a 310 km distance probably isn't as exciting as it sounds.
  • by Kvasio ( 127200 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:28AM (#7033145)
    According to the page, one of the antenas was on the roof of 10-storey building in Wroc?aw
    (city is located in between 100 and 148 meters above sea level), and (as I believe - it's /.'ed now) the Sniezka mountain (which is 1602 meters above the sea level). Thus the antenas were substantially off the ground...
  • by chrestomanci ( 558400 ) * <{david} {at} {chrestomanci.org}> on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @09:48AM (#7033306)
    Can you see France from Kent?

    You can, though it is easier to see Kent from france, as the white cliffs of dover stand out quite well.

    BTW, it is about 20 miles, (across the straights of dover) and there are tall cliffs on both sides, which improves sight lines

  • by puzzled ( 12525 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @10:28AM (#7033707) Journal

    I did a 21.7 mile shot using Cisco Aironet BR342, Andrew 19dB solid dishes, and YDI [ydi.com]
    500 mw amps.

    I'm a bit embarrased to admit using a wireless LAN product for backhaul work, but some morons [americanrelay.com] overtightened
    the patch cable on an Andrew P2F 5.2-5.8 GHz 2' dish hooked to a WiLan AWE-120 5.8 GHz radio and put their link out
    of service.

    Despite extensive tweaking the link never managed more than analog modem speeds. It helped in recomissioning the UNI band stuff, but was otherwise
    useless for hauling traffic.

    802.11[bag] is NOT an access product. Take a look at Alvarion's [alvarion.com] Breeze Access II, or better yet just wait for an
    802.16 product meant to do access work.

    802.11[bag] is NOT a mobile access product. That market belongs to licensed band products with ISDN like performance offered by cellular companies.
    Anecdotal evidence of mobile access to one police department in a town of 12,000 does not equal proof of concept for operation in urban areas; its plain
    dumb luck coupled with no competing ISM band ISP(yet).

    802.11[bag] is NOT a backhaul product. Backhaul radios are made by WiLan, Redline, Aperto, Proxim, and others. The minimum cost is $2,500 an end just for
    the radio, most of them are in the UNI band, the full duplex products are generally split band 5.2/5.7 GHz, and they provide typically eight to ten
    mbits for entry level products, unlike 802.11b which NEVER, EVER gets 11 mbits in long shots, with 1 or 2 mbits being the typical rate.

    802.11[bag] SHOULD NOT BE DEPLOYED BY MONKEYS. Are you a MoNkEy? If you haven't read Matthew S. Gast's 802.11 book published by OReilly and you
    don't fully grok the implications of the shared MAC layer, you are just throwing nuts and filth from the treetops into the already busy ISM band.

    Slashdot's coverage of other topics is relatively even. The coverage of radio is focused on 802.11[bag] and this is quite laughable most of the time
    to those of us who have actually owned and operated a wireless ISP. Personally I think the editors ought to be giving us a whole lot more information
    on ICOM's D-STAR [icomamerica.com], a 23cm (1.2 GHz) amateur band voice/data system.

  • by akadruid ( 606405 ) * <slashdot.thedruid@co@uk> on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @10:30AM (#7033736) Homepage
    I don't know about across the english channel
    Damn straight you don't!
    Distance will not be a problem - at only 21 miles (34 km) across at the narrowest point, weather permitting, you can clearly see 'Le Francais' from the White Cliffs of Dover.
    you can't go any further due to the curvature of the earth
    WTF? Surely you can't see any further! Actually you're miles out here too.
    The distance (in km) of the horizon on earth, on a plain, is approximately s(13h) where h is the height (in metres) of the eyes multiplied by the 13, and s is the square root symbol slashcode can't cope with.
    Were you to mount an antenna on the beach, you would find that the horizan at around 5km away would be a big problem.
    Stick it up on said White Cliffs of Dover, at 250m above sea level, and you will have no problems with line of sight.
    The only barrier to this idea is the regulations governing the area.
    Sources: Channel [wikipedia.org], Cliffs [dover-web.co.uk], Horizan [wikipedia.org]
  • by div_2n ( 525075 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @10:45AM (#7033901)
    Actually you can't use a 24db antenna with a 100mw card. The maximum EIRP allowed under the FCC for point to point is 8 watts (39db) and 4 watts for point to multipoint. If you use 100mw (20db) input into a 24db gain antenna, your total EIRP will be 44db or 25 watts. Not legal at all. Also not healthy to stand in front of the antenna for more than a few minutes.
  • Translation (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @11:23AM (#7034257)
    Below is my rough, quick and dirty translation of the article. You will have to mach the text to the pictures yourselves. AND it's Polish, not polish. For the difference of meaning see your favourite dictionary.

    ----

    Wi-Fi - World Record - 110 km @ 2.4 GHz

    Two-way DSSS communication in 2.4 GHz band at a distance of 110 km

    INTERLINE company, leading Polish microwave antenna producer, set itself a goal to check possibility of establishing a wireless link in 2.4 GHz band with sequential spectrum spread DSSS (802.11 b standard) at a range currently being only a subject theoretical dispute. The aim of the enterprise was a practical assessment of possibilities and study of phenomenas concerning such a link.

    It should be stressed that the link built is typical ground link and that diversivies it from the one built at the end of 2002 by Swedish company Alvarion and Swedish Space Corporation, which used a stratospheric baloon.

    What is equally important, all elements used in the INTERLINE experiment are off-the-shelf, unmodified equipment available comercially (1.1 meter parabolic antenna and a 500 mW amplifier). Swedish experimentators used 2.4 m parabolic antenna and a 6000 mW amplifier.

    Two localisations were chosen for the link: Wrocaw (a city) and a Hala pod Sniezka (Sniezka is a highiest mountain of Karkonosze), S-W from Jelenia Gora. The distance is around 110 km.

    People
    In the experiment actively participated:
    Piotr Kroplewski - owner of the INTERLINE
    Wiesaw Karpowicz - Manufacturing Manager
    Maciej Kaminski - Technical Division Manager
    Krzysztof Mularczyk - Wireless Network Specialist
    Krzysztof Juszczyszyn - Manufacturing Technologist

    Localisations
    One of a key stages of the experiment was a choice of localisations for stations which were to create a point-to-point link. First of them is a 11 stage house on a one of Wroclaw's districts.
    Second one, key to the experiment, is a glade by the summit of nieka, nerby Dom lski shelter (1400 meters above sea level)

    Equipment
    For the experiment following equipment was chosen:
    Antenas: PARABOLIC maxi, 27 dBi - product of INTERLINE
    Access points: INTEL Pro/wireless 2011 Access Point - made by SYMBOL
    Cables and connectors: cables BELDEN H-1000, H-155, RG-316, connectors VITELEC
    Wireless cards - Lucent ORiNOCO PC Card Silver/chipset Agere, ZCom XI-300/chipset Intersil
    aMPLIFIER - 2.4 GHz, 500 mW

    Of course there were also 2 laptops. Additionally we had: UPS, a set of tools, spare cables, connectors and a gas solder (just in case).

    End-point Wroclaw
    As the date of the experiment was set a time between 12th and 14th of September 2003.

    First stage was mounting and directing an antena in Wroclaw to point towards nieka mountain. Due to good visibility in Wroclaw in the day of installation (2003.09.12), this mountain, which is 1602 meters above sea level, was clearly ivsible. During the directioning vertical angle was important, due to the fact, that the other end of the link was 1400 meters above sea level.

    Installation components
    1. Access Point
    INTEL Pro/Wireless 2011 Access Point + Amplifier 2.4GHz/500 mW
    (here you can read yourself)

    2 Antena cable
    Belden H-1000
    Length: 5 meters
    plugs: type N

    3 Connector
    INTERLINE N/RP-BNC
    Length 30 cm (0.3 m)
    plugs: type N and RP-BNC

    4 ANTENA
    INTERLINE PARABOLIC maxi
    type: directional parabolic antena
    gain: 27 dBi
    radiation angle: 4degrees/6degrees

    Installation - Karkonosze mountains, Kopa-nieka
    On 14th September 2003 all the equipment has been transported with OPEL Frontiera (we had obtained permission of the Karkonosze National Park authorities) to the meadow near the nieka's summit.

    On the installation place weather was as usually in the mountains. Almost all the time the place was covered by clouds. Only from time to time for a dozen seconds wind split the clouds and we were offered splendid views of surrounding mou
  • by mgg4 ( 704335 ) on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @01:21PM (#7035213)

    The distance to the horizon can be calculated using the formula:

    D = 1.17 * sqrt(h)

    where "D" is the Distance to the horizon (in nautical miles); and
    "h" is the height of the observer (or antenna) in feet.

    To find the distance you can communicate over the earth using line-of-sight communications (like 2.4 GHz is), you need to do the DTH (Distance to Horizon) calculations for each antenna, and then add them together. This gives you the total distance.

    To get the required 110 km, you would need two antennas about 650 feet (200 meters) tall.

  • by pcjunky ( 517872 ) <walterp@cyberstreet.com> on Tuesday September 23, 2003 @01:32PM (#7035288) Homepage
    You can run 1 watt into a 6dbi antenna. For point to point you need to reduce your transmitter power 1db for every 3db increase in antenna gain. This means the max antenna gain for 500mw would be 15dbi. Add 9db to the gain to get 24bdi and you need to drop power another 3db or 250mw. 100mw would be legal at 27dbi but not 500mw. Since you need to increase total gain 6dbi every time your double your distance this would make this shot easy with 27dbi antennas and 500mw amps. I have heard of 20 mile links using legal power levals/antennas. The 500mw amps make this easy. To do this legaly would require very high gain antennas perhaps more than 33dbi. This would be the max legal output for 125mw. Most really good radios put out 100mw. I imagine that a 8 foot dish feed with a biquad antenna might do it.

A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable. -- Thomas Jefferson

Working...