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Displays

Walk-thru Fog Screen 333

Posted by CowboyNeal from the you're-soaking-in-it dept.
fluor2 writes "Ever wanted a screen floating in air? Two scientists, Ismo Rakkolainen and Karri Palovuori, both from Tampere University of Technology, Finland have come up with an idea. It is called the Walk-thru Fog Screen. The fog screen, consisting of 'fog' that is blown down from top, and the protective laminar airflow creates a thin and crisp surface, pretty undisturbed by the air in the rest of the room, making it ideal for projector usage. People can walk right through this screen of fog. Their next idea is to use the fog as a touch-screen, making it even more accessible." For a screen one can walk through, the image quality is better than I'd have thought.
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Walk-thru Fog Screen

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  • hmmm (Score:5, Funny)

    by boogy nightmare ( 207669 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:29AM (#6643279) Homepage
    is this what they call vapor-ware ?

    S

    • Re:hmmm (Score:5, Funny)

      by shfted! ( 600189 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:31AM (#6643285) Journal
      No, but it would be the perfect display for playing Myst...

    • Re:hmmm (Score:2)

      by rf0 ( 159958 )
      Wonder if you could freeze the fog to make it into a solid screen...

      Hmm

      Rus

      • Re:hmmm (Score:3, Funny)

        by hesiod ( 111176 )
        > Wonder if you could freeze the fog to make it into a solid screen...

        Umm, no, it would make snow.
    • And I thought 'hardware' was the bits you could kick. Damnit.

    • Re:hmmm (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Ah ah, just what Darl Mc Bride needed: a fog screen to present SCO stuff...

    • Re:hmmm (Score:3, Funny)

      by moinefou ( 696325 )
      Cool, then you should hear the sound of the Long-Horn trough the the fog-screen

  • Great.. now I'd like to (Score:5, Funny)

    by jkrise ( 535370 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:31AM (#6643283) Journal
    walk through my Blue Screen of Death!

    -

  • Seaquest DSV (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Microlith ( 54737 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:31AM (#6643284)
    So will this be installed with a "Wise Old Man" Genuine People Personality in the Captain's quarters of future naval ships?

    Will we see giant submarines in the future that go into space and...

    Err, sorry. Got sidetracked.

    This is cool. In a 1996 sorta way.
  • MPEG video of the musem prototype (windows media 9 format (720x576, like DVD). You need a new version of windows media player to view it. 1 min. 15 sec., total 21 MB)


    Just because it's computer video doesn't mean it's mpeg!

    Alas I can't transcode it to mpeg either.
    • I can view the WMV video [dmi.tut.fi] in Xine OK.

      Unfortunately it's when you see the video that you realise that the technology has, shall we say, some way to go before we'll all be using it in dull business meetings.

      Rich.

      • The foggers! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:46AM (#6643343)
        This isn't going to be used in business meetings, where projection screens are available anyway. I guess smoke-screens will be used as advertising space: One could use them much closer to or in the way of the customer flow at trade shows, without risking damage to equipment or consumer. For that purpose, a little image unstability may even prove useful as eye-catcher.

    • mplayer for linux works well with both formats...

      ( gmplayer )

      --ken
    • I watched it, it's not worth downloading. It's just two geeks walking through a screen of fog. At one point one of them flaps his hands like he is a bird lol... maybe it is kind of funny.

      It's an interesting experiment anyways.
    • Yep, using closed, proprietary, non-standards when there is no absolute need to do so is _very_ irritating.

      When creating video clips like this, what is so HARD about using an open, well established standard that everyone (including the few % not running M$ media player) can use?

      Btw, This is the first wmv I can't play at first attempt in mplayer under Linux. A file called 'wmv9dmod.dll' seems to be missing - can't find it on my Windows 98 installation either... :(

      To be at least a bit on topic, this tec

      • Open-standards video (Score:5, Informative)

        by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:07AM (#6643408) Homepage
        When creating video clips like this, what is so HARD about using an open, well established standard that everyone (including the few % not running M$ media player) can use?

        Quite a lot, as it happens. The main hassle being that there aren't any well established open standards that provide decent compression rates. At least, if there are then I'd be grateful for people enlightening me

        I had to put video up on my site - I chose MPEG 1 at first because everyone could view it, but eventually the file sizes started getting huge and I had to switch to something else. ISO MP4 can't be played by MS WMP, Divx and what have you can't be played without installing additional software on client machines...what to pick?

        In the end, I chose .wmv for a while. Seemed to give the best picture quality/file size trade-off. However, since then I've bought myself a Powerbook so all future things will be Quicktime.

        Honestly - if anyone knows a format that can be played on out-of-the-box Windows, OS X and common Linux distros without the installation of any extra software, I'd love to hear about it.

        Cheers,
        Ian

        • Re:Open-standards video (Score:4, Insightful)

          by anno1a ( 575426 ) <{cyrax} {at} {b0rken.dk}> on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:45AM (#6643497) Homepage
          You don't really make any sense... You didn't choose divx because it required additional software, so you chose wmv? Wmv can ONLY be played in windows, and I think it requires a fairly new version at that. And now you're switching to Quicktime?? WMP can't play quicktime, everyone hates the quicktime player, and it's hardly supported anywhere! Now you've gone from a more or less open standard, to a rather closed standard which requires a special player. What was wrong with divx again? Or the open XviD for that matter...
          • ...You didn't choose divx because it required additional software...Wmv can ONLY be played in windows,...WMP can't play quicktime

            That was my point - none of the choices available fit the bill. Original poster asked what was hard about putting up standards-compliant video, and my answer is that there's no one file format that plays on all clients and still produces a decent file size/performance trade-off. I've just picked the easiest one for me to work with and stuck with that.

            What was wrong with divx

            • Answer, there isn't one, and there isn't going to be one. The reason, well you pretty much mentioned it youreselve. The two commercial desktop makers each have their own codec they want to sell, with the MS being sorta "free" just as long as you buy it with their OS, and the Quicktime codec being free but reall jobs wanting you to pay for it.

              A bit of an outsider is Realplayer. Since it A runs on all major OSes, it doesn't have an OS to leverage users into accepting it as the default and C its player is hat

          • "Wmv can ONLY be played in windows"

            $ mplayer -vc help | grep wmv
            ffwmv1 ffmpeg working FFmpeg M$ WMV1/WMV7 [wmv1]
            ffwmv2 ffmpeg problems FFmpeg M$ WMV2/WMV8 [wmv2]
            wmv8 dshow working Windows Media Video 8 [wmv8ds32.ax]
            wmv7 dshow working Windows Media Video 7 [wmvds32.ax]
            wmv9dmo dmo working Windows Media Video 9 DMO [wmv9dmod.dll]
            wmvdmo dmo working Windows Media Video DMO [wmvdmod.dll]

            "WMP can't play quicktime, everyone hates the quicktime player, and it's hardly supported anywhere!"

            $ mp
        • To use anything is unexcusable.

        • Re:Open-standards video (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Sherloqq ( 577391 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @08:32AM (#6643838)
          Honestly - if anyone knows a format that can be played on out-of-the-box Windows, OS X and common Linux distros without the installation of any extra software, I'd love to hear about it.

          While I don't have an answer to that, I know of an answer that requires a similar amount of work for all those platforms: RealPlayer. Yes, it can be annoying. But it works. I happily use RP on windows and linux, and I'm pretty sure even my old PowerBook 5300 could handle it (just to prove it to myself I'll try it tonight).

          No, I don't work for Real. Yes, I work with Real products. Yes, I like 'em. Yes, I'm a geek. And yes, I have a life.

  • Johnny (Score:3, Funny)

    by joshua.robinson ( 694687 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:38AM (#6643310)
    Get out of the screen what do you think you are? Made out ouf Glass?

  • repost.... (Score:2, Informative)

    by iamhassi ( 659463 )
    either I mistakenly set my sys clock back to last year [slashdot.org] or this is a repost.

    My god slashdot!! Can't you keep your stories straight?? If not SEARCH GOOGLE!! [google.com]. That's how I found it again.

  • It would make for a great cinema effect (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ken Broadfoot ( 3675 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:41AM (#6643323) Homepage Journal

    I am not really sure what display use it has in the "real world" but it would make a great cinematic effect.

    Also you could scare folks in amusement park rides making them think they are about to crash into stuff.

    You could also hide behind it and spy on people maybe...

    Who knows...

    --ken

    • Re:It would make for a great cinema effect (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dmeranda ( 120061 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:02AM (#6643394) Homepage

      In the real world, fog screens tend to make terrible pileups on the highways where the crashes aren't so pretend.

      As far as amusement parks, good luck trying to keep a laminar airflow while a high velocity vehicle whizes by. And forget outdoors, the breeze would carry your image away, that's if you could even see it in the sunlight. Probably more useful in a haunted house ride...life-like ghosts, and cool the airflow and you also get the chill down the back of your neck too.

    • Re:It would make for a great cinema effect (Score:5, Funny)

      by Biomechanoid ( 515993 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:48AM (#6643505)
      Also you could scare folks in amusement park rides making them think they are about to crash into stuff.

      Yeah you could also put signs before the ride saying "this ride is safe using smokescreens", but during the ride they actually crash really really hard into stuff.
    • I wanna know when they're going to implement these things in our homes and workplaces, like the comm-screens that pop up in midair in "Martian Successor Nadesico."

      On the other hand, that might not be so great. The last thing I want is for my mom or boss to materialize right in front of my computer screen while I'm in the middle of enjoying some really good... er, browsing Slashdot.

  • Uuh-oh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jason1729 ( 561790 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:43AM (#6643329)
    From the article: The fog screen enables many novel applications indoors. Interesting applications include walk-thru advertisements on shops or malls, or a walk-thru screen in world-class museums, corporate showrooms, trade fairs, theme parks, special events, spas, theatres, science centers, lobbies, etc. We can extend the technology to limited outdoor usage.

    Does anyone else find it find it very disturbing that the first application they suggest is advertising?

    Jason
    ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
    • not really... companies can easily spend $2M putting together a tv ad, what better way to bring the costs of production down then to sell the first few for advertising pourposes....

      And what would you rather.... instore advertising/pushy sales people getting increasingly obnoxious and garish to catch your eye and get your attention, or something cool and geeky like this?

    • Re:Uuh-oh (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:52AM (#6643365)
      Why would it be disturbing that one of the most apparent uses for this technology is advertising ? Its not going to bring peace or solve world hunger. I'm sure the inventors will be looking to make a few dollars for their time and effort. The advertising industry will lap up, and pay top dollar for technology that allows them greater flexibility in advertising. Its probably the market the inventors have intended all along.
    • whats disturbing are the videos in that article.. could you imagine trying to watch anything on that? the first 12 inches from the top seems stable, the rest of it looks like your projecting onto curtains with a shopfan blowing on them.

    • leafblowers (Score:4, Funny)

      by RMH101 ( 636144 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @07:12AM (#6643563)
      I think you could make a pretty decent mockery of any billboard using this with a leafblower...or an industrial vacuum: "hey, mcdonalds! you *suck*"
    • Given that one of the largest consumers of big flat panel TVs (JCDecaux in Europe anyhow) is the advertising businesses, it's a sensible proposal. I can imagine that the fog screen would be very striking in airports, as the travellers on rolling carpets are carried right up to and then through the screen. Whap!!
    • Not really, most technologies used to display things are used to advertise something. A flashing redlight on a car for instances advertises that this car is an ambulance. I fail to see anything disturbing in that. ;)

      Anyway there is indeed probably no immidiate hightech use for this. I imagined something like a screen in an operating room to give the surgeon information, but without blocking movement like a normal screen would. You know put the screen over the chest if the surgeon is working on the head, bu

  • Mimes are evil (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hey ( 83763 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:43AM (#6643330) Journal
    The video features a mime. No not a MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) but one of those guys with the white face paint. A very bad choice. If they don't want people to hate their product they sound use *anything* else.

    • FYI: We (Finns) don't have the history of being harassed by beggar-mimes in our streets. Interestingly, mimestry(sp?) is considered a difficult kind of art performance. The few selected ones I've seen have actually been pretty damn good.

      Judging by the common jokes about outdoor park mimes tailing people and making everyone feel miserable, they must be all too frequent a phenomenon in U.S.

    • I can never see a mime without flashing back to the reception scene with the mime waiters in This Is Spinal Tap, with boss mime Billy Crystal snapping at Dana Carvey, "Come one, don't talk back, mime is money, let's go, move it!"

  • I say (Score:4, Funny)

    by Jage ( 164751 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:44AM (#6643332)
    It's all just smoke and mirrors!

  • This is going to confuse the crap out of Batman (Score:4, Funny)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:45AM (#6643336)
    How will he know when the Comissioner really calls him and its not just a couple of Finns messing about with their own batsign?

  • Woo (Score:3, Funny)

    by rf0 ( 159958 ) <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:50AM (#6643356) Homepage
    Now this is a cool and useful thing. It would be cool to have something like this in the home so I could use it as a monitor. If the main unit was hidden with a drop down keyboard. Well hidden PC :)

    Rus

  • Ars story (Score:4, Informative)

    by BigAl_nz ( 39616 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:51AM (#6643360)
    Ars Technica [arstechnica.com] story on the same thing.

  • Cubed for Outdoor Concerts! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Jonah Hex ( 651948 ) <hexdotms AT gmail DOT com> on Friday August 08, 2003 @05:57AM (#6643381) Homepage Journal
    Grab your favorite smelly hippie and head out to the old outdoor venue, forget about 90+ degree temps when you hop into the Fog Screen 3D!

    Based on the "mist tents" seen at Lollapalalaala(TM), you'll trip balls walking thru the 50 foot cube of cooling fog filled with visuals that _may_ have something to do with the music!

    Seriously, this is a great idea and I expect we'll see something based on this which gets the audience inside the thing at entertainment venues in the future. I also would like to say I'm glad to see it looking so good in the demo pics.

    Jonah Hex
  • If the fog somehow is shaped as an object we want to recreate, and projected against from all sides, would this make the object look like a 'real' hologram ('real', like from the movies!) ?

    I can already see a lot of applications for this. Bring out the mimejuice! And crack some ice!
    • Well the fog now is shaped by air being blown down. You could in theory use finely controlled airflows to keep the fog in a certain shape. It would not be totally dissimmilar(?) to how a glass blower shapes glass. Of course glass is a lot more solid then fog :)

      For now probably only very simple shapes would be possible, like say a pyramid. Then again maybe with multiple projectors you can create the illusion of something being inside the fog?

      Then again you can bet your ass that the engineers at places like

  • Great for firearms training (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rolo Tomasi ( 538414 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:03AM (#6643397) Homepage Journal
    This technology would be very useful for extremely realistic firearms training. Think FPS with real guns. The bullets would create holes in the fog screen which could be recognized by video sensors and this information could in turn be used as an input to the simulation.

  • It needs work, IMHO. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hwatzu ( 89518 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:07AM (#6643407)
    To be honest, it needs work; the top of the screen looks fine, but turbulence causes the bottom of the screen to ruffle about like a flag in wind. Watch the movies provided; the bottom half of the images are all but lost to distortion.

  • No holographs for you (Score:3, Informative)

    by SoVi3t ( 633947 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:15AM (#6643426)
    I don't care how much you whine and cry, this won't be making any Star Wars style holographs. You could project a 2D image onto it, but a full 3D image (viewable from all angles), would likely be impossible. How would you manage to project images into all the crevices and such, and also how would you hold the fog in a specific shape?
    • I thought about making 'real' holograms using this technology. It just _might_ be possible. I think that given enough motivation, and the right people working on this, there can be progress made in the right direction. Why am I hopeful? Well, your mentioning it being impossible motivated me a bit.. :)

      Now, I will let my imagination run wild and try to address the problems you mentioned. Even though I am no engineer, perhaps something resembling my ideas might be possible. First, holding the fog in its 'pr

    • Re:No holographs for you (Score:3, Interesting)

      by danila ( 69889 )
      First, on average there are less than two eyes in a human. So you don't necessarily need the "hologram" do look correctly from all points of view, just from two. Second, the eyes are so close that sometimes you don't even need the stereo, the flat object can look 3D enough if you successfully use other cues (like place this "hologram" behind some objects and in front of others). Add to that eye tracking for the observer and you can dinamically adjust the picture for the the observer's position. If you can w

  • Ugh. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP@ColinGregor y P a lmer.net> on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:18AM (#6643430) Homepage
    Interesting applications include walk-thru advertisements on shops or malls

    Great, just what the human race needs. Another way to display advertisements. I do my best to ignore them, but if I have to walk through an ad, it's going to be hard not to see it.

  • Done (Score:4, Interesting)

    by peterpi ( 585134 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:21AM (#6643437)
    What, like what these guys [futuroscope.fr] have been doing for years?
  • How about using a giant outdoor mist-screen to show flickery 8mm. movies of ghosts &c. from a concealed projector, in order to scare away the residents from an old village where you have been secretly conducting a highly lucrative but probably illegal operation, so they won't nick your money / grass you up?

    Oh, wait, I think this might have been done before .....
    • How about using a giant outdoor mist-screen to show flickery 8mm. movies of ghosts from a concealed projector, in order to scare away the residents from an old village where you have been secretly conducting a highly lucrative but probably illegal operation, so they won't nick your money / grass you up?

      Oh, wait, I think this might have been done before .....

      And they would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those blasted kids.

  • Just like Seaquest (Score:2, Redundant)

    by Snaller ( 147050 )
    ... remember that? They projected a hologram on what look like a stream of vapor from the celing - very clever, even if looks a bit crappy *G*

  • No Fog (Score:2, Funny)

    by GregoryD ( 646395 )
    I don't want a screen. I want images implanted into my brain before my lifetime is over. I want the screen to be my vision, an interactive custom 3D reality.

    Then I can realize my dream, Brittney Spears backup dancer. And after the show... she leads me by the hand to her dressing room... errrrm

    I mean to play Quake 10, yeah, thats it. Quake.

  • Seaquest, DSV, had something exactly like that - it was one of the teenage-hero-brat's "mentor" display.

  • Ah, I've got it! (Score:4, Funny)

    by clambake ( 37702 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @06:59AM (#6643534) Homepage
    So, combine this with adaptive camouflage [slashdot.org] and you've got yourself an invisible secret lair from which to lauch evil plans. Super villiany is finally feasible, and just in time for Arnold to win the Governorship to do battle with, sweet!
  • *sigh* ... Now we know how slow do things have to get before Slashdot is reduced to reposting last year's tech news [slashdot.org].
  • It's a cool idea, but aren't the particles rather unhealthy if a dust is used, and wouldn't it take a lot of energy usage to produce a vapour (e.g. dry ice requires refrigeration)?
  • Whoa, I thought only the Taelons were supposed to have this technology ! But hmm, now that I think about it, Da'an's screen is actually crappier-looking than this... Go humans go !
  • ... with their haunted mansion ride?

  • Ya know, I think.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by StressGuy ( 472374 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @08:26AM (#6643816)
    Wile E. Coyote could have actually caught the Road Runner with one of these things.

  • In The Last Starfighter [sciflicks.com], Alex Rogan's mentor "Grig" described the technology used for displaying their heads up display.

    Basically he said it was produced by projecting images onto a field of xeon gas. (Or something along those lines. Anyone care to refresh my memory?)

    Seems to me like these guys got their inspiration from the movies. :)

  • My newest peripheral: (Score:5, Funny)

    by roelbj ( 95481 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @08:49AM (#6643953) Homepage
    My vacuum cleaner is now a screen capture utility! Can I get a Hoover with USB?

  • Two sided display? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PSaltyDS ( 467134 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @08:51AM (#6643971) Journal
    I wonder how well a laminar flow smoke curtain would do with images projected on BOTH sides? The cool effect I imagine is walking down a corridor with several of these screens crossing it. As you walk through the image of a wall with a door in it, you turn around and see the image of the other side of the "wall". Look forward again and you see the next "wall", which you can also walk through to see what's on the other side. The series of images could give a tourist a walk right through a virtual pryramid, or some other interesting tour, like the entrance hall in the opening sequence of 'Get Smart' [geocities.com] or MST3K [scifi.com].

    ...think of a sig, quick! Oh no! Too late... arrrrrgh!!!

  • Hope They Are Looking for Outdoor Markets (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RhettLivingston ( 544140 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @09:02AM (#6644036) Journal
    Because the load on the air conditioning for removing all of that humidity from an indoor setup will be huge.

  • Major old technology (Score:3, Informative)

    by rjw57 ( 532004 ) <richwareham@nOSPaM.users.sourceforge.net> on Friday August 08, 2003 @09:34AM (#6644243) Homepage Journal
    If you cast your mind back to the 'hologram' in the Captains cabin in the original Seaquest DSV, that used /exactly/ this technology.

  • Disenyland already has this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ShawnDoc ( 572959 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @09:58AM (#6644403) Homepage
    Hate to brake it to these geeks, but they've obviously never been to Disneyland. The Indiana Jones ride has had this technology for years. A fog screen is created and then it has projected on it the moving image of rats running along a log and dropping off. Your jeep then drives through the screen, scaring women who are afraid of rats.

    (Some days it works really well, some days it doesn't.)

  • Not really new (Score:3, Informative)

    by MrIcee ( 550834 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @11:06AM (#6645178) Homepage
    ... this is not really a new idea or application. In one of the expo's the pepsi (I think it was pepsi) pavillion was a geodesic dome. They lined the entire dome with stainless steel tubes with very small holes drilled in it (it took them quite awhile to determine he exact size). The idea being that forcing very clean water through the tubes and very small holes would produce fog.

    The entire structure, thus, was totally covered in fog - and they used both lasers and video projectors to color and animate the surface.

    And anyway... what, nobody ever thought of shineing a video or slide projector (or laser) at fog before. Geezesus.

  • Wile E. Coyote uses (Score:3, Funny)

    by sacrilicious ( 316896 ) <qbgfynfu.opt@recursor.net> on Friday August 08, 2003 @11:43AM (#6645762) Homepage
    The fog screen enables many novel applications indoors. Interesting applications include walk-thru advertisements on shops or malls, or a walk-thru screen in world-class museums, corporate showrooms, trade fairs, theme parks, special events, spas, theatres, science centers, lobbies, etc.... We will also present some intriguing new concepts later.

    One of our favorite uses: an image that people can walk through which looks just like a solid brick wall... exactly six inches in front of a real brick wall. Get your webcams ready.

  • First-hand experiences (Score:3, Interesting)

    by E_elven ( 600520 ) on Friday August 08, 2003 @02:18PM (#6647896) Journal
    This is actually a repost from a few months back. I first saw it when they demoed it at an IT convention in Helsinki -the pictures don't quite tell the truth about the quality of the image, it's in fact a lot more stable and crisp than it might seem -and sticking your hand was neat, too, although it got me into trouble actually punching one of those ancient solid-monitors we still have at the office :) Anyway, from what I've heard (haven't been around there for a while), the quality has gotten even better nowadays. I wouldn't really start speculating about holographic displays yet. It's just 'cool.'

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