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Handhelds Hardware

Opie GUI/PIM Project Reaches 1.0 146

Posted by michael from the no-wincing dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Open Palmtop Integrated Environment (Opie) project has announced its first 1.0 release. Having been forked from TrollTech's Qtopia environment, Opie has evolved into the most sophisticated free and open graphical user interface for Linux based embedded devices and PDAs. Opie features a sophisticated personal information (PIM) framework as well as several other productivity apps, extended multimedia capabilities and document model, networking and communication tools as well as multi language support for more than a dozen languages. Based on common industry standards like XML, Obex, IrDa et. al. Opie is capable of interacting with lots of devices ranging from cell phones to server backends. Opie is highly optimzed for mobile devices and tries to support the user with shortcuts and ease of use."
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Opie GUI/PIM Project Reaches 1.0 More

Opie GUI/PIM Project Reaches 1.0

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  • but does that mean (Score:5, Funny)

    by toddhunter ( 659837 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:00AM (#6613231)
    One day they will be announcing their second 1.0 release?

  • about Qtopia (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:02AM (#6613238)
    Cool thing about Qtopia was that it could be used with Python. Developing GUIs in python is easy and fun

    • GUIs in Python... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think the current state of GUIs for Python is that there is no best choice for GUIs. The major decisions are:

      Which OS?
      only unix == wxPython or GTK
      only MS Windows (eg, needing ActiveX support) == wxPython or MFC
      MS Windows or unix == wxPython or Tkinter
      MS Windows or unix or MacOS == Tkinter
      MacOS and anything else == Tkinter

      How much native look and feel for different platforms? If a lot, then wxPython is a better choice for X and MS Windows along with Tkinter.

      Do you need a good can

    • Re:about Qtopia (Score:5, Informative)

      by holgerschurig ( 695193 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @04:08AM (#6613434)
      I'm using OpenZaurus [openzaurus.org] as my PDA distribution. This distro uses Opie, but it comes with python, sip, PyQt and PyOpie. So you can develop your GUI stuff in Python.
    • It should be just the same. OPIE is a fork of Qtopia (QT/Embedded ... many other names), and one of the goals is binary compatibility. I believe that OpenZaurus (which primarily uses OPIE) has the same package as qtopia, probably a bit newer and built from source.

    • Re:about Qtopia (Score:4, Informative)

      by mlauer ( 172488 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @08:00AM (#6613981) Homepage
      I am the maintainer of the Python packages in the OpenZaurus distribution. Programming PyQt on Opie is pretty good supported through the qtpe module. A dedicated opie module to support the Opie extensions will eventually be provided.

  • The opie website, for those who care (Score:5, Informative)

    by Feztaa ( 633745 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:03AM (#6613240) Homepage
    Slashdot didn't link to it, and neither did linuxdevices.com, so I just thought I'd say that the Opie homepage is here [handhelds.org].

  • Will Opie work with this? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:11AM (#6613273)
    >>Opie is capable of interacting with lots of devices ranging from cell phones to server backends.

    Will Opie interact with this cell phone [samsung.com]?

  • why the fork? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sniggly ( 216454 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:11AM (#6613275) Journal
    Why is this forked? Doesn't that lead to double efforts? Is it political or is there a technical reason?

    • Re:why the fork? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ofels ( 255261 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:52AM (#6613393)
      Yes, there were political reasons.
      Qtopia did not let developers take part in the project to contribute and parts of it were closed source.

      Oliver Fels
      Team Opie

      • Qtopia also had licensing problems because the Zaurus uses an SD card, which, like DVD technology, is heavily patented. This prevented Qtopia from making that code available. Somehow the OPIE folks found a way around this. Definite Kudos in order here.

        This is just another example of the need for vigilent against those nasty closed hardware specifications like DVD and SD. They're technologies intended to control the user rather than give us new capabilities. That's why I recoomend that people try to s

        • Re:Licensing reasons too (Score:3, Informative)

          by treke ( 62626 )

          This is way off.

          1) Qtopia doesnt have any SD code in it. None. That's all handeled outside of it. Qtopia and OPIE use whatever hardware your kernel can support. Sharp and Lineo put together a binary only driver for the zaurus. Handhelds.org [handhelds.org] Have an open source driver available.

          2) The problem with DVD and SD aren't with patents they were trade secrets. The only way you were able to get the information on how to set up the device was to sign an NDA saying you wont disclose that information. Someone was a

          • I thought the OZ project was maintaining the same kernel that had originally come out for the Z (2.4.6) and that was how they could continue to use the proprietary SD slot driver.
            • They were. Openzaurus and Opie are two different projects. OZ up until the next release use 2.4.6, they next release will probably be an upgrade to either 2.4.19 using the binary driver from the Sharp V3.1 rom ( it ships with kernel 2.4.18) or 2.4.21 using a port of the handhelds.org driver. Either way SD support will continue, and OZ will get a much needed update.

              Greg ( maintainer of the OpenZaurus for iPaq port)

  • Bring on the Gasoline!!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by A1miras ( 595087 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:11AM (#6613277) Homepage
    Since this is a qt portable related anouncement, I figure people would be interested in it's gtk equivalent.

    GPE [handhelds.org] or the "GPE Palmtop Environment" aims to provide a Free Software GUI environment for palmtop/handheld computers running the GNU/Linux(TM) operating system. GPE uses the X Window System, and the GTK+-2.2 widget toolkit.

    They have their own nifty screenshots. [handhelds.org]
    • X? On a palmtop? Talk about missing the mark. Even with a framebuffer driver X is way too heavy for use on a palmtop (then again I guess palmtops are getting pretty powerfull these days, with 200+ Mhz StrongARM processors not being out of the ordinary). I guess I will forever be waxing nostalgicly for the days of my Palm IIIxe with it's 4-6 week battery life =)

      • Re:Bring on the Gasoline!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot.org@gmai l . c om> on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @05:20AM (#6613608) Homepage Journal
        >X? On a palmtop?

        The PalmPilot Pro had more CPU and memory than the NCD X terminal the local University threw out.

        If a 12 Mhz 68000 can run X, then anything (even those $50 cheapies) manufactured today can run X.

      • Re:Bring on the Gasoline!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @06:01AM (#6613690) Homepage
        Something like Tiny X has a total footprint of 700k or thereabouts. X isn't (or doesn't have to be) that resource intensive. Hopefully everybody realizes by now that the "memory hungry" myth is just that; a result of unavoidably disingenoius reporting by system tools. And you don't _need_ a large dynamic font system with AA, or all the modules you load at run-time either, if you want to shrink resource usage further.

        And X-less methods rack up that kind of resource use anyway; _something_ has to handle expose and redraw stuff, for instance, if you are aiming for something able to run more than one thing at a time. Apparently (I have not worked on it myself), qtopia requires the applications to handle WM-stuff by themselves.

        I agree that Palm did a pretty good thing with their system, by only allowing one - full-screen - application to run at any one time. Easy model to handle, and resource efficient. But as the huge collection of hacks show, it is also quite limiting.

        • And X-less methods rack up that kind of resource use anyway; _something_ has to handle expose and redraw stuff, for instance, if you are aiming for something able to run more than one thing at a time. Apparently (I have not worked on it myself), qtopia requires the applications to handle WM-stuff by themselves.

          There's a reason that both commercial handheld OSes and QPE launch windows full screen and keep em that way - real estate. You just don't have enough space to screw around with multiple overlapping

          • Well, yes and no. Clocks, battery meters, and other status stuff certainly counts as separate apps, they are being piled on onto PalmOS and such systems as well, just not as cleanly and safely.

            Other examples include popping up an on-screen keyboard; or blanking the screen with a clock display when not in use. You still have the issues with multiple windows (in the X sense). Oh, and with a real OS you may well want to have several apps running and switch between them, even though you are only looking at one
        • Qtopia/Opie/QTE don't require apps to manage windows themselves, and apps don't HAVE to be full screen (you can open a smaller window and have it dragable/resizable just like in X). It's just that most Apps don't bother 'coz on a screen that small there's not much point in not using the whole screen.

        • Tiny X is in fact tiny, but it does have support font Antialising quite well. It has also had Render and RandR support for a while ( RandR has been there since late 2001 ).

          I've been using OPIE since the beginning of the project, and before that I was using X. The reason I switched isnt the performance of X, it did a great job. The reason was the PIM applications for X were very poor at the time. The best PIM suite for X at the time was the python based Storm.

          I played with GPE a bit, and it's really

      • X? On a palmtop? Talk about missing the mark.

        A commercially-released Palmtop already had X11 as it's native GUI: The Agenda VR3.

        The device was puny and slow, but X wasn't the major bottleneck. The X files probably occupied a few 100K more space than a slimmer library would've needed, though (since after all it included TCP communication functionality, unlike the competition). Those features were quite handy. You could plug the PDA into a PC and then run the addressbook software on your larger monitor
    • BTW, what PDA:s does this run on at the moment? My sole reason not to get a zaurus is the lack of GTK.

    • X11?!?! on my Zaurus SL-5500? What kind of a performance hit does it take? Can I still play movies and mp3s on it like I can with Qtopia? Does it still have solitaire, ti85emu, other necessary apps?
    • I checked out the GPE screenshots. Like Qtopia, GPE:
      • Squanders massive amounts of screen real estate on stuff like borders and shadows that were ported over from full-sized desktop interfaces
      • Is awfully modal for an all-in-ram device, exploiting none of the interaction advantages of ram storage that Palm successful did
      • Tries to apply UI design meant for a full-sized desktop with a keyboard and mouse and a 17" screen and where the user has set aside several hours a day to do work to a 3x5 device with a 320

  • iSync ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mirko ( 198274 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:16AM (#6613294) Journal
    What about its synchronization features ?
    Can I :
    • sync it to Outlook (work) ?
    • sync it to iCal (at home) ?
    • use my existing Qt/ZAurus apps on it ?

    Should at least 2 answers be positive (100%), I'd consider installing it.

    • Re:iSync ? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mirko ( 198274 )
      OK, I RTFA'd and the article mentions the necessity of a 3rd party app in order to "benefit" from the Outlook connectivity. It also says OPIE can natively run Zaurus binary packages but strill no mention of "iSyncability". :(

    • Re:iSync ? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ofels ( 255261 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:33AM (#6613342)
      It can sync to Outllok via QTopiaDesktop from TrollTech (free) and IntelliSync from PumaTech.

      http://opie.infofreaks.net has a rudimentary sync tool for Windows, which does not work very well with Win2k.

      iCal support is built in.

      Qtopia apps are working.

      Oliver
      Project Opie

    • Re:iSync ? (Score:5, Informative)

      by A1miras ( 595087 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:35AM (#6613350) Homepage
      From their website [handhelds.org] under "Sync Data With The Desktop" [handhelds.org] it says:

      KitchenSync...

      KitchenSync is the Synchronisation Framework for KDE 3.1. At present, one can synchronize directory, Todolist and Calendar. In the future it will be possible with KitchenSync to sync data with other computers, or also with Handys like the S45. to the fact comes that one can save konqueror directly on devices. So one will be able directly out konqueror files on CF, SD, to copy or RAM.

      Qtopia Desktop

      is Trolltech's sync software TrollTech ftp

      IntelliSync
      [there's nothing under IntelliSync]
    • It will work better than the latest Sharp rom.

      Hell, the latest sharp rom made the reliable sync process a wish that it works at best.

      hopefully the open zaurus side has it working better than the sharp people.

      Dont get me wrong, the sharp guys are sharp! (haha...groan) but the communication on te windows side of the planet was working great, and they broke it for some silly reason.
      • well, it actually syncs better than before, especially in direct-usb mode (no more tcpip over usb bullshit), I just remark that :
        1. applications a re a bit slower
        2. I can't use IrDA anymore
    • Multisync [sourceforge.net] is a syncing package under very active development at Sourceforge. From their homepage:

      Currently MultiSync has plugins for
      • Ximian Evolution synchronization, supporting calendar, ToDos and contacts.
      • IrMC Mobile Client synchronization (supported by e.g. SonyEricsson T39/T68i, Siemens S45i/S55 phones etc.) via Bluetooth or IR on Linux, or cable connection.
      • Windows CE / Pocket PC synchronization. This plugin is part of the SynCE project, and can be downloaded there.
      • Opie and Zaurus synchronization.

    • Someone already mentioned it, but as the developer of the Opie sync plugin for MultiSync [sourceforge.net] I just thought I'd plug it again :)

      If you want to sync Opie with Evolution, MultiSync is probably your best bet.

  • Is linux too much? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:17AM (#6613298)
    I can't help wondering if Linux is too much for smaller devices like these. It has a brilliant place in larger systems, and small basic webservers (PII machines of only a few hundred MiHz) but isn't it a bit much for a system the size of embedded machines, devices and PDAs?. I can't help thinking that a more focused coding effort could be spent not on unixifying the entire world, but directing effort more appropriately.

    Something the size of the Amiga exec kernel is under 40kb and provides the essentials and runs blindingly fast on single-digit-MiHz machines. How much performance is really being lost in having bigger more complex base kernels?

    • Re:Is linux too much? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      > How much performance is really being lost in having
      > bigger more complex base kernels?

      None. Performance is dragged down by a bigger kernel in return for more functionality

      Functionality is what people want from a computer, PDA, phone, whatever. To a person who wants a PDA, they don't give a hoot if the thing isn't doing job X at the most blindingly fast possible speed, if it can do jobs Y, Z, alpha and omega for them as well. The same reason applies for why nobody writes 100% of everything in assem
      • To a person who wants a PDA, they don't give a hoot if the thing isn't doing job X at the most blindingly fast possible speed, if it can do jobs Y, Z, alpha and omega for them as well.

        Wrong. Customers looking for a PDA are actually more sensitive to performance than PC buyers. When you're digging a PDA from your jacket to check an airline schedule as you haul an approved-size carryon in each hand, you do not want to wait 12 seconds to start the app and then 5 more sec for each button-press to register.

    • Re:Is linux too much? (Score:5, Informative)

      by antiMStroll ( 664213 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:55AM (#6613405)
      The Zaurus 5500 runs a StrongArm 200 MHz, easily the equivalent of the P2 machines you mention, with additional advantage that the kernel can be highly optimized for a limited subset of accessory hardware and stripped of support it will never require (SCSI for example.) Opera embedded runs plenty fast on a Zaurus, plus you maintain the tradiitonal benefits of Linux such as NFS and SMB support.
    • How much performance is really being lost in having bigger more complex base kernels?

      It is not a issue with just embedded devices, you might ask as similar question of the Linux Kernel in general.

      200+ system calls is getting a wee bit high

    • I have a Zaurus and think it's a cool machine, BUT it could run faster if using some minimal OS. After all PalmOS doesn't have huge truckloads of features like NFS, memory protection that would be worth it's money or such, but with all the applications, it's quite a bit smaller.

      OTOH, the software availability on the Zaurus is as good and doesn't have that much expensive shareware like the Palm, something which made me migrate away from the Palm.

    • Re:Is linux too much? (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I have to disagree. Linux is a great tool to have on these devices. I'm working on a project which uses a fairly large Linux code base which needs to run on a small portable device. The newer handhelds are perfect for this -- especially because it's got GPS and Bluetooth available (pieces required for the project). Also, I'd *MUCH* rather stick to programming for a Linux environment than learning (and purchasing) a completely new set of tools just in order to use these devices. It's also pretty handy t

  • I know I am going to get a troll or offtopic... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by skogs ( 628589 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:30AM (#6613334) Journal
    I know I am going to get a troll or an offtopic...but I just don't understand the point of the opie project at all. Perhaps because I am not cool enough to use a palmtop/PDA...I use paper notes or cards in my wallet for the things I really, really...really need. Good thing I don't have a lot of them.

    Question I can't get out of my head is this. All of this equipment already ships with an OS that works and that was custom designed for that piece of hardware...so why rebuild it with linux?

    I like linux, I run linux...and it helps me avoid the evil empire that would like to tax me. But palm/etc does not charge me extra for the use of their palm os. I can buy niftly little game packs and everything to fit in a palm that holds all the games of my youth on it...

    I just don't understand the need. Except maybe to force layoffs in big companies like palm...when they switch over to this newly made free OS. Thats what the /. community needs...more out of work software engineers.

    • Re:I know I am going to get a troll or offtopic... (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It's the same reason PPC Linux distros exist for MAC. It offers a simply superior cross platform solution, to horizontalize a product in a vertical market. You can get the best of both worlds if you need it, or just stay with Linux if you're willing to leave the proprietary system behind; something I found incredibly easy.

    • yes...but... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by skogs ( 628589 )
      its a palmtop/pda. Its not like you have this huge monolithic computer sitting on your desk that you do ALL your work on...and it simply must communicate with the computer at work.

      The only real crossplatform need I see is for developers themselves...so that they can easily put mozilla or something on a machine. Whether or not that little doodad needed mozilla doesn't matter...whether or not you even have a keyboard that you can type on(without using a pencil erasor) to type in urls doesn't matter...beca

    • Re:I know I am going to get a troll or offtopic... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jericho4.0 ( 565125 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:52AM (#6613392)
      Hmmm, let's see, my Ipaq has Apache, ssh, Grass5, and python on it. I wrote some code (in Python) to interface it with a gps. I can use it to admin unix servers, and even use its X display to interface with a servers GUI. All of this works at a decent enough speed.

      I really like the fact that I can do this. I can't do any of this on some propietary system.

    • you have finally given me a decent reason. Blessings on you for actually USING your palmtop. Unforunately 98% of the market is for slobbering idiots...most of them leading companies or trying to feel like it.

      :)

    • Question I can't get out of my head is this. All of this equipment already ships with an OS that works and that was custom designed for that piece of hardware...so why rebuild it with linux?

      Well, it depends on the PDA. OPIE is largely Qtopia, which the Sharp Zaurus already uses. As far as I know, you can even upgrade your Zaurus to use OPIE and not lose compatibility with existing Sharp apps. Of course, only a niche would desire to do this. I'm a Linux guy, but I'm happy with what Sharp provides. I d
      • Because the current iPAQs are way better than the current Zaurus. (Or at least the Zaurus models readily available in Europe and the USA.)

        For instance, I'm currently looking into getting a iPaq 19xx series PDA. It's extremely light-weight - I think it weighs about half as much as the Zaurus - and is also smaller than most of the other PDAs. Much in the same vein as the entry-level Toshibas (e3xx), with the difference that "good progress is being made" [handhelds.org] by the familiar developers in porting familiar to the h
          • Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks! Especially interesting considering the Axim 5 is a very respectable PDA, although I think it looks terribly bulky. That said, judging by the page you linked to and the subsequent page of the developer, the project is very much in an early stage.

            Still, it's a good start, hopefully support for other PocketPC PDAs will start to become available as well. Incidently, I've always wondered if the familiar distribution shouldn't be easily portable to other PDAs - aren't they extre

    • Re:I know I am going to get a troll or offtopic... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The answer is: Power.

      Once you've got Linux running on the thing, you are no longer limited by what someone in Redmond thinks you should be able to do.

      Over the 2 years I have it now, I've used my iPAQ for a couple of things that weren't really intended and would have been difficult if not impossible to achive with windos. In fact, the power of commandline alone is worth the hassle of getting Linux installed.

      Plus, of course, you don't want to ruin your karma (the real one, not the /. score system), do you?
      • The problem I have with the open source solutions for handhelds (especially on my iPaq) is that the handwriting and character rec tends to suck horribly (on the Z this isn't much of a problem thanks to the builtin keyboard). Has anyone else found this to be the case or is it just me?
    • Thats what the /. community needs...more out of work software engineers.

      Agreed; what the hell else will make sure people have enough time to post here?

    • Question I can't get out of my head is this. All of this equipment already ships with an OS that works and that was custom designed for that piece of hardware...so why rebuild it with linux?

      The Sharp Zaurus shipped with Qtopia from the start. It never had anything else. So it isn't just a replacement for PocketPC or PalmOS.
    • You know, people have all sorts of reasons for using a given OS other than ideological ones. For example, I'd like a Zaurus with Linux and a GTK-based interface. I would not choose a Zaurus over Palm or iPaq for ideology, but simply because I like the Zaurus form factor a lot better. I would like Linux over PalmOS or WinCE not because of ideology, but because I find it a comfortable and powerful system that I know well. I would like GTK over Qt (ora any of the dozen other toolkits), not because of ideology,
    • I know I am going to get a troll or an offtopic... but I just don't understand the point of the KDE project at all. Prehaps because I am not cool enough to use a workstation/PC... I use notebooks or paper on my desk for the things I reall, really...really need. Good thing I don't have a lot of them.

      All of this equipment already ships with an OS that works and that was custom designed for that piece of hardware...so why rebuild it with linux?

      The same is true of a desktop PC.

      But palm/etc does not ch
  • anyone else remember the other OPIE? What ever happened to that?
    • anyone else remember the other OPIE? What ever happened to that?

      I was confused as well as to what OPIE had to do with a GUI/PIM Project. I guess all the original acronyms were taken and people are starting to overload them. I was hoping it was some kind of one-time password app for Palms. Alas, it's yet another group running Linux on their palmtops. Hardly new or exciting anymore in this age of 200MHz+ processors on handhelds. If they got Linux running on the HP 100LX I'd be much more impressed. Gu

  • Whey hey ANOTHER OS... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:52AM (#6613389) Homepage

    So this means we have Linux on the Zaurus, PalmOS, WindowsCE, PocketPC, Smartphone, Symbian and now yet another to be added to the list of interesting ideas that will not challenge the market.

    Sorry to be cynical, and it does look nice BUT, are PDAs really going to survive more than another year or so ? Already PDA sales are outstripped by about 10 to 1 by Smartphones, and that ratio will only increase in favour of the Smartphone.

    So if there was a real desire to create a new OS, why not pick a new platform and aim to create the smallest, most portable and most function rich environment for smartphone development, now that would actually be aiming at a future market that could exist. Of course this is more complex as you'd need to understand the GSM/GPRS/3G stacks and lots of other nasty telecoms elements. BUT at least there is a chance of a large company taking it on.... because in a Hardware driven market the only way to get acceptance is if it is installed on a device upfront.

    Its nice to play with this stuff, but wouldn't it be better to go for the future than install it on kit that is obsolete ?
    • OPIE is not an OS, it's a GUI. It uses Linux as OS.
    • OPIE is not an OS, its a GUI and nobody created Linux for PDAs, its just Linux, so nothing new there either.

    • Re:Whey hey ANOTHER OS... (Score:5, Informative)

      by splint3r ( 315106 ) <splinter.killerbees@org@uk> on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @04:26AM (#6613487)
      Well first let's clear something up, it's not another OS, you wouldn't call KDE an OS would you? My Zaurus still runs on the same (slightly modified) OS it shipped with despite the fact that I'm running Opie, it runs Linux.

      I'm not at all sure that PDAs are becoming obsolete in the face of competition from smart phones. The new phones will still be that, phones. I don't see how a product can be designed to be two different things without sacrificing something(s) from both.

      I'd rather have a phone that's a good phone, and a PDA that's a good PDA than something which tries to do both and fails. Old arguement I know, but I feel nothing's changed, phones will not be the all-in-one device they promise to be, not enough thought has gone into user adoption. Unlike Sony's attempt [gamesindustry.biz], unfortunately.

    • Linux is already being used on Smartphones, by Motorola [burn.com] and at least one other Asian manufacturer (Sharp, I think).

      Aside from that, it is nice to play with, and that's how it's being developed, mainly as a hobby, like most OpenSource software...

    • Re:Whey hey ANOTHER OS... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Goth Biker Babe ( 311502 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @05:11AM (#6613591) Homepage Journal
      Sorry to be cynical, and it does look nice BUT, are PDAs really going to survive more than another year or so ? Already PDA sales are outstripped by about 10 to 1 by Smartphones, and that ratio will only increase in favour of the Smartphone.

      I have a Sharp Zaurus running OpenZaurus and a SonyEricsson T68i.

      The T68i is a smart(ish) phone containing the functionality I require when wandering around the office and out shopping and the like. It's small enough to be unobtrusive without being too small to be useful.

      But often I require more functionality than that and don't want to have to have my laptop with me. The Sharp is ideal. It's keyboard means I can type with my thumbs, write e-mails, browse web sites even use it as media player.

      I know some phones, like the SonyEricsson P800, have much of the same functionality but they lack one useful feature. They don't have a keyboard. Also they have to be large enough to be useful but small enough not to be a brick and that's a compromise.

      I agree that many people who would have bought PDAs will now buy smart phones but there will always be a market for PDAs, if reduced.

    • What's your problem? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PhilHibbs ( 4537 )
      Why complain? Go buy a smartphone, and leave those that want an open source PDA environment to develop it for themselves. Honestly, what's the point in saying "What's the point?"? The whole ethos of open source is, if you have an itch, you scratch it, and share your scratch code with the world. Someone obviously wanted this, so they developed it. More fool them if they are heading down a technological dead-end, which I don't think they are, but that's up to them. In any case, I guess a lot of this code can

  • QNX? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Honken ( 665599 )
    Anyone tried running QNX on the IPAQ? Available here [qnx.com] There used to be some nice screenshots as well but they seem to have disappeared.

    • Re:QNX? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yep.. I tried it for a while... Very nicely polished, but no support for power management.. which is why I didn't try it for very long.

  • But it has crap PPP support so... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Goth Biker Babe ( 311502 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @05:42AM (#6613650) Homepage Journal
    ...it's difficult to use it in conjunction with mobile phones for dial up without script hacking.

    I have an SL5500 and I keep swapping between the Sharp rom image and OpenZaurus. The rom version that came with my PDA was fine but a little out dated. Sharp, in their wisdom, have changed the format for the PIM apps in the new rom which means I can't sync with Qtopia desktop on my Linux box any more. And OpenZaurus/Opie seems to be more suited to those using WiFi/permanently on-line connections rather than dial-up. The e-mail client either supports only IMap or is crap. PPP is a pain to set up. I like the way it works on the earlier sharp rom. Why wasn't that kept? Ideal I would want a combination of all three.

    I have to say I haven't tried Opie 1.0 as I'm still running pre0.99. It does seem to be heading in the right direction but it seems unfinished in some areas. I suspect this is because apps are developed by people who want that functionality. I have the source and have looked at updating the bits I need but I don't have the time. I'm afraid I spend all my day at work designing and developing embedded systems and just want to use my PDA without having to develop for it.
    • You've just answered my questions.

      I have a Z with the 2.39 uk sharp rom which I sync with my linux PC using Qtopia Desktop and use IR to my mobile to get email/web when I'm out. I think I'll stick with things as they are for now.
    • I've not tried it yet (I'll be flashing the new ROM tonight) but there's been good feedback about the PPP module on the Zaurus developers board [zaurus.com]). The Bluetooth support has been getting better and better too, if you install the Affix packages and the excellent Connector, which makes connecting to something like the T68i a one click operation. It's been excellent to use with GPRS too.
  • The story says it's forked from QTopia. But how is the API in comparison to QT ? I really like developing Programs in QT because it's quite easy and straightforward. One day i might code for PDAs too , but not quite yet (they are too expensive) ;-)

    • Re:QTopia... (Score:3, Informative)

      by mlauer ( 172488 )
      We forked Qtopia, not Qt. Opie is still using the Qt/Embedded API as backend - albeit slightly patched. A plain Qt/Embedded program will run unmodified on a device running Opie. To get an optimized application you want to substitute QApplication with QPEApplication and do a bunch of easy further tweakings.
  • most people dont ralize, but a whole generation of hand helds gas gone by.. will it run on those. I use a compaq aero with pocket pc 2000 it has a MIPS processor and MS has abandoned that . Cant get upgrades and from the look of things, cant use this either

  • OPIE PDA on a laptop (Score:3, Interesting)

    by j_kenpo ( 571930 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @10:59AM (#6615113)
    I use OPIE on an old P200 laptop with 64 Meg of ram. It makes a real nice desktop PDA/rolodex. It's pretty decent running from a shell using the frame buffer, and makes good use of an otherwise obsolete laptop. It may not be exactly the most portable solution, but at least I have a workable text editor, mail client, and PDA I can take with me on trips. Id thought about offering that to the others in the office, but since its not exactly a Palmtop solution and they wouldn't know what to do with Linux outside the PDA environment, I thought better of it. But for me its nice to have the PDA, and be able to drop to a shell to use basic tools like VI when needed, or play Doom or Quake on the plane.
    • There are a lot of people with Toshiba Librettos out there, a system like this would be ideal for such machines.

      Please if you do something and want to share it don't dismiss it as no useful unless you have checked around!
      • You know, I hadn't actually thought about that. I had to piece together the information to get this working correctly from a lot of different sources. But I forgot about systems like the Librettos that this would work very well on. If you could recommend someplace to host the info on (Im thinking Linux-embedded.org or linuxdevices.com) then Ill be more than happy to share the knowledge. Im not sure well that would run on a Libretto though, it may or may not take up the full screen, which is one of the drawb
        • I am not much into that scene, only as the ocassional user, I am sure that if your experiences are pertinent they can put a page with your findings. Or if you have your own website just put it there and Google will do the rest.

          It would be a pity that such effort is not shared thus forcing less proficient people like me to reinvent the wheel ;-)

          Chhers.
  • Anyone got a Revo+ / Mako running this with a window manager yet?

    Jaysyn

  • What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 73939133 ( 676561 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @11:03AM (#6615131)
    To me, Opie just seems pointless. Being based on Qt/Embedded, the Opie environment only runs Qt applications, so most UNIX GUI apps don't work on it. And being a GPL'ed fork of Qt/Embedded, people may not even be able to ever develop commercial software for it even if they were willing to pay Troll Tech's licensing fees.

    Now, if Opie were a great self-contained PIM suite, maybe it could survive on that alone. Unfortunately, it isn't: even the cheapest Palm is a much more effective and convenient PIM than the Opie environment.

    As far as I'm concerned, GPE [handhelds.org] is a more interesting project. It may not be as mature as Opie yet, but in the end, it will be more useful. If Linux has a future on handhelds at all, I think it will be based on Gtk+ and X11, not Qt/Embedded.
  • So does that mean I could buy a Sharp SL-C760 from Dynamism, replace the OS with OpenZaurus, replace the PIM stuff with Opie, and have an SL-C760 in English running completely open source software?

    Would there be a hit on storage space from doing this, or could I flash over the Sharp ROM?
  • I'm used to OPIE standing for One-time Passwords In Everything. I'm not sure if I can handle the additional confusion this will create.
  • Barney, Andy and Bea?
  • ...but they're doing it all wrong: it's not

    "optimized", "optimzed", "opie";

    it's

    "optimized", "optimzed", "optmzd"!

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