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Lycoris Announces Desktop/LX Tablet Edition 190

Posted by timothy from the what-about-tublet-pcs dept.
penguinrenegade writes "Lycoris has announced the release of a new Tablet Edition of their popular Desktop/LX Operating System. There are several screenshots in the tour, and it looks like a really polished system, including some of the things that you'd really need in a Tablet, like the virtual keyboard, actually working. It appears according to one page that there are already Tablets in production by some manufacturer, too. So much for Bill Gates and his vision of only Microsoft on a Tablet, eh?"
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Lycoris Announces Desktop/LX Tablet Edition More

Lycoris Announces Desktop/LX Tablet Edition

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  • Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by UTaimSRC ( 689392 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:26PM (#6447995)
    Just because Microsoft created the TabletPC does not mean that it needs Linux as the competition. The TabletPC will fail without Linux's help because there is a very small niche for the product.
    • Because, to many, it is not important that your product was a sucess. It is enough that it was less of a failure than M$.

      And I suspect that arguement will actually work, in an edited way, on bankers.

      Only one letter different....

    • Re:Why? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      What's wrong with the concept of the TabletPC?
      • Nothing wrong with the concept.
        The only problem is that there are no applications that make use of pen input in a good way Not on windows, and not on Linux.

        Besides all existing tablet-PCs are fare too heavy.

        If you work with them on the run as you are supposed to, it will almost certainly result work related injuries to neck and sholders. The weight must get down to below at least 500g.

        And if you work with them on a table like an ordinarey laptop. There is little need for pen input.

    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Barlo_Mung_42 ( 411228 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:51PM (#6448220) Homepage
      "because there is a very small niche for the product."

      Small niches can be very successful. Apple is doing just fine thank you very much.

    • Why is why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:53PM (#6448234) Homepage Journal
      Why are you so sure the tablet PC is doomed? It's just a slight evolution of the laptop concept -- and laptops are pretty popular [slashdot.org]. Sure tablets are overhyped and most of the "features" are useless, but that's true of a lot of products. Doesn't mean the basic idea isn't sound.

      I, for one, am looking forward to the day when I can recline on my couch and surf the web or read an ebook with the same ease I now read a paperback. Yeah, you can do that with a laptop, but it's awkward. You don't always need a keyboard.

      • Re:Why is why? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by UTaimSRC ( 689392 )
        The TabletPC is a stripped down version of an entry level laptop that also costs several hundreds more. There is nothing wrong with the concept of TabletPCs but untill they are priced accordingly they will not sell. I for one, is in the market for a laptop so I could bring it to my classes. I was highly considering the TabletPC but for an entry level (800mghz, 256 MB RAM, 8MB Video Card, WiFi) I could get a top of the line Sager Notebook (3 GHZ, etc...).
        • Uh, you didn't say TabletPCs were overpriced, you said that that will fail. Overpriced tech does sometimes succeed -- consider Rolls Royce, Bulova, and Think Geek.

          Besides which, new tech is always more expensive than comparable old tech. I mean, if price is the only issue, I'll sell you a Thinkpad 770 for fifty bucks!

        • Yeah, okay, so you won't buy one... but other people are making other choices. I know two people who've bought them (one is a student planning to take it to grad school, the other is a roving sysadmin at a government agency who needs to be able to jot down notes on the go.) The company I work for is considering outfitting a couple hundred field-service technicians with tablets to replace the clipboards and printouts they use now.

          I borrowed one for a few days and it sure was convenient to have access to a

          • The company I work for is considering outfitting a couple hundred field-service technicians with tablets to replace the clipboards and printouts they use now.

            Which is exactly how new products get cheaper. It's not a law of nature. At first the product costs "too much" for most people, but if it's got any good points, some people buy a bunch of them because they have a process that justifies the cost. When this happens enough times, you get economies of scale and the price starts going down.

            Of course if

      • The history [bricklin.com] of tablet computing is littered with failure, and MS is joining the parade 10 years late (though, as a history lesson, MS crushed Go by promising pen-windows 3.1 and forcing vendors to dump Go to get seeded with pen windows, then after Go tanked, they pulled the plug).

        If you could get a touch/pen interface for trivial incremental cost and no resolution/weight/durability penalty, people would probably go for it. Maybe someday, but not yet.

        Until then, as for Apple taking the niche: I worked on
      • Why are you so sure the tablet PC is doomed? It's just a slight evolution of the laptop concept

        I don't think so.

        The way you use a laptop and tablet are very different. The hardware might not be all that different, which is what you are probably thinking. But the two products are very different.

        The biggest thing is the stylus, a user interface designed for it, and including handwriting recognition.
      • In a couple years when we can get some nice ruggedized ones, we'll use them in place of the handhelds we're deploying to the field now. The clipboard-sized form factor is alot better for field work, and the increased screen size is a real boon to the inspectors, who have trouble writing notes into tiny text boxes and picking items from tiny list controls.
        • Very true. People used to complain that the Newton was too big to fit in your pocket. I would have liked it better if it had been just a little bigger.

    • Re:Why? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I can think of plenty of uses for tablets that beat a regular computer/laptop any day.

      And for your just sitting back surfing the web I'd take a tablet any day if I could just afford one.
    • I have to say that I agree. I mean, I type very fast and my hand-writing is nearly illegible (even to me). I'm not an artist with a pen, I'm an artist with a keyboard and a mouse. (OK, maybe not an artist)

      ...My two canadian pennies worth.
      • Gosh, you better go avail yourself to all the focus groups... "the one man focus group" you could call yourself.

        That's a bit harsh above, but there are people who'd manage quite nicely with a tablet PC.
    • Why must it have to just be about competition? Linux wasn't developed in the first place as "competition" to another product.

      If I was buying a tablet PC (and I _do_ like the form factor), I sure as hell wouldn't want it running Windows XP, so its just nice to have the choice.

  • Additional Information (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bame Flait ( 672982 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:26PM (#6447997)
    I've managed to uncover the manufacturer - their web site is here [etch-a-sketch.com]

    Rumor has it that there are stylus limitations, however.
  • The Tablet PC market has been out there for a while now, it just hasn't really gotten a lot of consumers yet. I was thinking about getting one, but that would probably bind me to using windows. Another option is always nice.
  • like the virtual keyboard, actually working

    or you could just flip the screen around and use the real keyboard, actually working

  • Well? Where can we get one? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mrklin ( 608689 ) <ken.lin@gmAAAail.com minus threevowels> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:28PM (#6448023)
    Don't you know /. ers require immediate gratification!?!
  • ... of Windows XP Tablet Edition.

    • ... of Windows XP Tablet Edition.

      As if Windows XP isn't already a ripoff of other modern OSes?

      I mean, seriously, Microsoft rips off every other company that has an original idea (Apple, Xerox, Palm), and usually gets their ripoff wrong in the first few iterations, but through attrition they manage to be the last guy standing...

      That there's a Linux variant that is designed for Tablet PC use is wonderful. There are vertical markets where Tablets make sense, and the cost benefits of Linux on Tablets means

  • Comdex Best of Show - BeOS Webpad (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Anyone remember that? 2000, I think.

    A few months later, the company that won Best of Show for their BeOS-based webpad switched to Windows CE...

    BeDoper [bedoper.com]
  • So much for Bill Gates and his vision of only Microsoft on a Tablet, eh?

    Perhaps they should stop copying Windows XP, eh?

    • So much for Bill Gates and his vision of only Microsoft on a Tablet, eh?

      I always did find that idea a little hard to swallow ...

    • And how is Lycoris copying ms windows XP? Lycoris uses KDE as the deskotp. It is a completely differnt desktop then the Fisher Price (TM) desktop of ms windows XP. KDE and Gnome both have very good support to make the desktop Look how you want [themedepot.org]. MS is the one that actaully copies [vcnet.com] from others and try to pass it off as their own.

  • Resistive touch screen? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Barlo_Mung_42 ( 411228 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:46PM (#6448173) Homepage
    Hard to tell but it sounds like they are supporting only a resistive technology for the touch screen. RF (such as in Wacom tablets) is much better for an interface. You get hover, pressure sensitivity and MUCH higher resolution.
    Plus a side switch and eraser.
    There was an article a while back about linux on an Acer Tablet PC so I know it can be done.

  • Linux GUI Design (Score:4, Interesting)

    by straterpatrick ( 594954 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:48PM (#6448189) Homepage
    I don't understand why the 'evolution' of Linux means that it become more and more like Windows. If Windows is the bad (not that I'm saying it is) why do all Linux apps try to emulate it. From OpenOffice.org to Licoris, why are we stuck using Windows Graphic Design and Interfaces. I mean if you really want to copy a GUI why not look to Mac OS X?
    Strater
    strater.ca [strater.ca]

    • Re:Linux GUI Design (Score:4, Funny)

      by Suppafly ( 179830 ) <slashdot&suppafly,net> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @08:16PM (#6448403)
      I mean if you really want to copy a GUI why not look to Mac OS X?

      Because the only people that like having one toolbar shared between all apps already own macs.
    • Why should they copy anyone? Why not come up with something workable and original?
      • Any suggestions?

        I've thought a lot about this, but as sub-standard as the current way of doing things is, I can't really think of another that would work to any degree.

        Especially now that everyone is used to the Windows/KDE/Gnome/Mac OS/Everything else way of doing things... there's a lot to be said for familiarity, that's why all the interfaces you see are so similar.
    • Because Apple will sue but Microsoft will actually be glad that you are copying them!
    • I mean if you really want to copy a GUI why not look to Mac OS X?

      Because MS doesn't sue when you copy XP and Apple does.
    • Because Linux wants to take market share from windows, and to do that, you have to make it easy for windows users to switch.

      Once we have 60% market share, we can start making the running ourselves.
      • Linux is an interesting animal. The funny thing about it is that because of it's very nature, there will never be an accurate record of just how many linux machines are actually out there. Well, not unless you tracked and compiled accurate download statistics from all linux iso download sites. But even then, how do you know how many instalations there were? I've used my copy of mandrake to install linux on 300 workstations locally. So it's reletive I guess. Anyway, my point was, How do you know that there
    • I don't understand why the 'evolution' of Linux means that it become more and more like Windows.

      I agree. It is so annoying that all automobiles have very similar controls. All just cheap knockoff copies of each other.

      I personally believe that every car should have radically different controls and good online help. Approaching the intersection too fast? Just pull up the online help! It's right there for your convenience.

      I'm very interested in hearing more about your ideas for interface design
    • From OpenOffice.org to Licoris, why are we stuck using Windows Graphic Design and Interfaces. I mean if you really want to copy a GUI why not look to Mac OS X?

      KDE seems to copy elements from OS X. It seems like we have transparent menus. OS X alike desktop wallpaper. Very similar styled GUI widgets. Numerous things that are obviously and overtly influenced by OS X. So it's not like everything is being copied from Windows.

      It seems to me that desktop themes that look "too much" like OS X get pro

  • Tablet XGalaga??? (Score:5, Funny)

    by maxmg ( 555112 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:53PM (#6448233)
    To display the abilities of applications written specifically for Desktop/LX Tablet Edition, Lycoris has created Tablet XGalaga, a customized version of the arcade-inspired open source program. Now you can experience the power at your fingertips!

    In related news, Microsoft commented on the perceived threat to their tablet PC platform:
    "Even though this is a pretty slick move on their part, our developers are working right now on a new and improved version of TabletMinesweeper. Not only will it feature much bigger buttons, we will also include improved 16-color graphics and at least two different sound effects. That oughtta show them who's boss."

    But seriously, if you want to show off the power of your high-tech bleeding edge computing platform, don't use GALAGA, for god's sake!
    • You may think this is a joke, but so far the best use for the Tablet PC I've found, and the one that keeps my Linux loving friends taking the laptop, putting it into tablet mode, and using it, is Microsoft's InkBall [microsoft.com].

      Super simple game - really addictive. How games should be made.

      Don't knock a game as a killer feature for a platform.
    • I think I'd break my spiffy new tabled after about 5 minutes of XGalaga.

      taptaptaptaptaptaptapCRUNCH
    • How would you right-click in a tablet?

      I always have to put the flags down to keep myself from screwing up and getting the sad face.
  • Linux on a tablet --- there goes the only reason I decided not to get a tablet PC.

  • Touchscreen? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:57PM (#6448260)
    Touchscreens suck for Tablets. I've been using a Toshiba Tablet PC since March and love that the screen is not sensitive to TOUCH, but only activated by the special PEN. That means when I rest my hand on the "page" to write in the journal the screen doesn't erroneously respond to that pressure as it does on those (cheaper) models which are touch sensitive. Also, when I flip my pen around it is recognized as an eraser. That, with the real-time feedback, makes it feel so much like writing on paper that I brush the "eraser shards" after erasing. When I use those other Tablets that are touch sensitive, I'd hate it.

    Please tell me Lycoris' Tablet supports WACOM pads...

  • I have been wanting a Tablet PC and I really really dont have a desire to give any money to Microsoft for similar reasons on why I don't buy CDs. But thats for a whole different issue.

    Im more interested in this distro. Is there a demo version out there somewhere. I will probably spend more time looking deeply into this but is this the distro with the built in winex stuff that runs win32 apps easily?
    • There is a WineX [lycoris.com] add-on for games.

      You can download a copy at LinuxISO.org [linuxiso.org].

      I'd have to say that I've tried Lycoris and I'm rather impressed with it. It seems to be somewhat picky about what hardware it works with, but otherwise it is a fast, no-nonsense desktop. There is one well-chosen app for each task you could need, and the menu layout is simple and straightforward. I think they were even using Mozilla as the default browser before RedHat was. Everything is designed to look and work like, say, Win
  • This isn't a troll, I'm asking an honest question here...

    As near as I can tell, Lycoris is the artist formerly known as Lindows. They took freely available open source software, slapped a Windows-lookalike skin on the desktop, then started charging for the priviledge of using their specialized click-and-run installer.

    Something about them just rubs me the wrong way... Did they really do a lot of work to make open source an easier pill to swallow for the masses, or are they just prettying up the same stuf
    • Lycoris is the artist formerly known as Redmond Linux - just a small correction :). They do seem to be doing pretty much the same as LindowsOS though.

    • Re:We who? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by getling ( 114602 )
      This is not meant as a flame, but take it as you will.

      Why do /.ers feel the need to have the herd mentality about products and politics especially? Are that many people coming here to have their opinions spoon-fed to them that they have to have a stamp of approval on products WE think are good (or reject those that WE feel are bad)?

      Whatever happened to reading sources and forming a coherent opinion all your own?

      Or am I expecting too much?
      • Herd Mentality on /.?? Surely not. Sure I expect a Hurd Mentality but I think you'll find that there are enough "discussions" on here that could quite possibly be classified as holy wars to disprove the "Herd Mentality" idea.

    • The free software myth. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mindstrm ( 20013 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @08:31PM (#6448522)
      Free software is not about what you think it is about. It's about freedom for the software itself.

      Free software is not about giving away software for free. If you can take free software, and bundle it in such a way that you have an edge, and can make money off it... that's great. Go for it.

      Yes, Lindows did do a lot of work to make linux get out there into people's homes. They have a deal with a MAJOR outlet to sell lindows preloaded on pcs. That sounds good to me.

      It's not the job of everyone who works with open source to "promote open source". Not everyone is a holy crusader.

      Lindows has caused a lot of people to use linux who otherwise wouldn't, becuase of how their products are sold. They abide by the licenses of the software they are given, and found a way to profit from it. That's not something to complain about.. and frankly, all the complaining every time someone makes money off open source while still complying with licenses is what gives open source a bad name.

      Do I think lindows is technically a great feat? Hell no, but I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing. If you release something under GPL, you should not be upset when someone takes it, packages it, and sells it. Your license, after all, permitted it.

      If the authors did not want people to sell or use their products in this manner, the licenses would refect that fact.

    • Re:Do we even like Lycoris? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, no, no. Lycoris is *not* Lindows.com. Lycoris is a completely different company and you can download their distro for free. They have a very dedicated and loyal user community at lycoris.org

      Their distro is based on old Caldera Openlinux code (hah! - will Sco sue them next?!?)

      Their goal, as near as I can tell, is to make a Linux distro your grandmother can use. And they do give back to the community.

      Lindows is a "pay-as-you-go" distro, based on Xandros (used-to-be Corel Linux), based on Debian.
  • A tablet pc is to computing what Nsync is to Rock & Roll.
    • Ehh... may not quite THAT bad, but you're close.

      I think a properly done tablet PC would take hold in special markets (such as package delivery), where the devices used now are much more limited than a full-blown PC.

      (Look at the wireless slabs carried around by UPS drivers, for example. Sure, they get the job done pretty well - but I bet much more information could be presented to a driver if it was an actual tablet PC. Perhaps, an instant display of package tracking results for the current customer the
  • That's interesting

    I wonder what kernel they're using. Linux 2.4.x does not support ACPI S3 sleep, and it seems surprising that they would ship a 2.5.x kernel. I can't wait to take a look at the sources they release.
    • Yeah, it's not like they're actually capable of adding said functionality to 2.4.x themselves.

      (I'm in a sarcastic mood today.)

      • Re:Sleep? (Score:3, Informative)

        by SailorFrag ( 231277 )
        Actually, it would prove rather difficult.

        In fact, the Linux ACPI development project has declared it impossible.

        I couldn't find the direct quote, but this sums up the situation [debian.org].

        Basically, the framework for notifying each device driver that the system is sleeping/waking up is not possible with 2.4. There were major changes in 2.5 to add support for this.
  • ???

    Will pressure sensitivity work right out of the box? Or not at all?

    Can it output to a seperate monitor? The viewscreen's a bit small for art purposes - sure you can zoom in for details but an artist also needs to see how the full image is going to look at its print dimensions.

    I'd love to be free from wacom/adobe/microsoft, I don't know if the Lycoris tablet will do the trick but it's an exciting step in the right direction.
  • No mention of handwriting recognition. The on screen keyboard is nice and all, but to make a table really useful, it going to have to recognize handwriting.
  • We went through all this crap back when Lycoris released build 43 and finally got attention as a viable contender for the Linux desktop market. Half the damn posts where "3ww, 100k$ 1|k3 Wind0z3! T3h sUx0r!" Get a grip, its just KDE2 with a similar picture as the default background. The most it comes to copying windows is by arranging its "control panel" to look similar to Windows XPs.

    What? Do you pricks think everyone should only have a term? Maybe run a tablet with 1 key so you can input commands i
  • From what I can see, it doesn't do handwritten input...so what's the point? Without decent handwriting recognition or some accessible form of easy on the move input these sort of devices are going to fall flat on their faces.

    What's the point of lugging around something so big, then having to resort to typing using the on-screen keyboard with one finger (tiny on-screen keyboard+the hand your holding it in)? You may as well have some form of PDA or even...just a good old pad and paper. At least Microsoft is

  • Has anyone tried Lycoris OS? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [namtabmiaka]> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @08:30PM (#6448514) Homepage Journal
    It looks like the OS can be downloaded from http://www.lycoris.org [lycoris.org]. Has anyone here tried it? They've pretty much taken KDE, reskinned it, added a network browser and packaged it "For the whole family".
    • I have, it's fairly nifty (although I tried it under VMWare, there was enough support within the community to allow it to run quickly enough to enjoy it).

      In the simplest terms, it's as hard to work with in the CLI as any mainstream GUI addicted user will find, but as easy to get to the CLI as Windows is (usually run>cmd in the windows environ). However, since it's well designed enough for newbie needing net usage, it takes little to no time for a beginner to track down the documentation needed to operat
      • I think the text problem is because they are using an older version of KDE and XFree86-3.x. The newest versions of XFree86-4.3, KDE and GNOME have excellent AA as can be seen in Red Hat 9. I don't know why Lycoris is using such old stuff. The video driver support is also better in the latest version of XFree86-4.3.
    • I have not only tried it. I use this on my man personal computer. It is the first distro I ran across that wasn't hell to get on the internet and be able to do something useful in the GUI.

      My Complaints:
      #1. It uses /usr instead of /usr/local as its prefix which makes compiling and installing stuff a pain in the ass.
      #2. Video modes for the desktop cannot be switched without restarting the xserver.
      #3. Thier version of Mozilla keeps turning on popups for some dumbass reason.
      #4. It really should come with mp

  • TabletPCs (Score:4, Informative)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason DOT nash AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @08:32PM (#6448536)
    I've been working with the Compaq TC1000 TabletPC for a while. We got in several for the office and I got one for me to look at. At first it just seems to be a small notebook...but once you use it for its intended purpose you'll see it has advantages. The longer battery life is nice. The Compaq screen can detach from the keyboard to make it smaller and lighter. I normally carry it like a legal pad. The handwriting recognition is EXCELLENT and I can't write worth a damn. It's much better than any PDA I've used, and this is without even using any special type of writing. It's also comfy to sit back on the couch and read your favorite sites with a small device.

    Give me a good 16 hours of battery life and I'll be real happy. The only real downside I've found is the screen. Since it is a touch screen it is not as clear as a normal LCD monitor. But, at least on the Compaq, it never gets fingerprints on it like most PDAs.
  • Because all I've been waiting for is a crappy on-screen keyboard that takes up 60% of my 10 inches of screen real-estate. Long gone will be the days of handwriting recognition that is unthinkably accurate (after a week of training).... Now I can switch to Linux and peck at 2mm buttons with a stylus that is accurate to half of that at best. Way to go!

    Seriously, I'm afraid that this falls into the category of products that make "Joe User" think that Linux (+GNU) is a cheap knock-off of Windows. I mean, th

  • Handwriting Recognition (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Poeir ( 637508 ) <poeir@geo.yahoo@com> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:48PM (#6449053) Journal
    I checked the site, and I couldn't find any mention of handwriting recognition. Does anyone have any idea what the quality of the Lycoris' (or another Linux distro for tablet PCs) handwriting recognition quality is?

    Also, where could I buy this, and what would it cost?
    • I checked the site, and I couldn't find any mention of handwriting recognition.

      There are handwriting recognition programs available [freshmeat.net] for Linux, including several under the GPL, but you are correct that the Lycoris website, which does have a "keyboard free" [lycoris.com] section, only seems to mention a software keyboard (xvkdb perhaps?) and not handwriting recognition as such. I too would be interested in a clarification of this, although I suspect the virtual software keyboard is the only form on 'keyboard free' inpu
  • The ability to play with the UI using just a pen does not equal a Tablet PC.
  • Saw the story announcement and followed the link. Demo certainly looks interesting. Went to the Lycoris store, and no listing showing the product available. Started scanning through the site, and no evidence that it could be DL'd anywhere.

    Shouldn't a product actually be available before being promoted so heavily?

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