Teach An Old Athlon New Tricks 210
budn3kkid writes "Seems like Upgradeware have a new gadget out for those overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU. Also, saw an article at ol' Tom's about it right here as well."
Junis reporting in... (Score:4, Funny)
Thank you!
Re:Junis reporting in... (Score:2)
Already slashdotted (Score:5, Informative)
Only two comments posted, and already the link is showing a lovely error page.
Google cache still around though, grab it here [216.239.33.104].
Re:For the price of this item.... (Score:2)
Since the provided link is hosed... (Score:5, Informative)
Choked Bus? (Score:5, Informative)
I do, and benchmarks have consistently shown that an increase in bandwidth for the Athlon rarely produces a substantial increase in speed (i.e. the recent speed "jumps" from AMD).
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:2, Interesting)
I know that if I clock my Athlon higher first using the CPU multiplier, and then using the FSB, my results show that the FSB boost is far more effective. Recently AMD has had more significant FSB increases than CPU speed increases (move from DDR200, DDR333, DDR400).
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:5, Interesting)
Granted, an increase in the FSB helps a lot, but not as much in, say, a Pentium 4 or an IBM 970, where a large FSB is vital. The Athlon is comparatively simple, and the 400MHz FSB is overkill.
Again, an Athlon XP 3000+ will be faster on a DDR400 system than in my old 133MHz FSB system.
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't because of simplicity - it has to do with the size of cache lines in the L2 cache. The P4 fetches larger blocks with each miss, meaning a longer wait when a miss occurs. The Athlon, making smaller fetches, requires less bandwidth for a given miss. Obviously, if you designed worst-case code that was aimed at generating pure misses, both processors would be abbysmal and heavily affected by FSB, but normal code is not like that.
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:3, Informative)
You can set cache line size to any arbitrary length when you design a processor. Now, because of the longer pipeline and higher clocks of the P4, I believe that larger cache lines make more sense, but you don't inherently need longer cache lines when you have a longer pipeline.
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030703/tmc_a
Re:Choked Bus? (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends on what you're doing. I did some informal (and unscientific I should mention) tests using Lightwave on an an Athlon vs. a P4 with Hyperthreading etc. The specs on the P4 sounded like should have blown the doors off of the Athlon. Nope. The Athlon was surprisingly quick. It's not even a modern Athlon, either. It's got a 266 bus.
I don't think LW cares too much about the bus. The
What's the point? (Score:2)
If I want more speed, I'll just buy an 2000 thoroughbred for my $50 Biostar and overclock it to 2500.
Nice (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nice (Score:5, Funny)
I propose a modification to this. When talking about gaming or about overclocking (and especially AMD systems), your computer is not a 'box' but a 'rig'. The correct phrase to express that your computer is fast is that it is a 'sweet rig'.
Re:Nice (Score:5, Funny)
'guide to being a parents' basement dwelling uber-dork'.
Re:Nice (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nice (Score:2)
I mean, what in the hell is this [slashdot.org] then? Or this [slashdot.org]?
A box? (Score:3, Funny)
Uh....no. A "box" is something else entirely and I have severe doubts that 90% of the guys posting here will ever see one in person. While we're at it, a "rig" is not a modified "box". A "rig" is a piece of equipment that same 90% of Slashdotters will have no real use for except self-pleasure. Well, I suppose a "rig" can be a computer after all.
hmm.. (Score:5, Funny)
A tradional alternate solution for a conventional method to solve a problem.. interesting
I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2, Interesting)
So now stores that sell these CPUs now have even less to work with when determining whether John Smith walking into the store asking for a CPU exchange actually had a faulty CPU to begin with or was do
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, c'mon. I don't want to physically mess with my cpu and all of the sudden I'm an immoral person?
Overclocking processors isn't that dangerous of a thing, btw. Unless you did something physically wrong while installing the thing, or the heatsink (which would cause the proc to burn even if you didn't overclock it), all you'll have is an unstable system, in which case you bring the speed down until you get your perfect heat and speed balance. Chances are many of these cpu's computer stores refused to take back were indeed bad, and they were using overclocking as an excuse to screw the customer.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
not quite so (Score:3, Insightful)
the newer, better (and the better older too) mobos have this functionality already built in. with tbred and over you don't need to do any mods to the cpu at all to have it 'unlocked'(you needed the pen trick with athlon).
and from my experience, the odds are that the individual screwing the cpu while overclocking could have screwed it up even without overclocking, that is, the person did something horribly stupid in the
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:3, Insightful)
I would have modded you down, but I didn't think that that would properly convey my reaction to this statement, which is : fuck you.
How in the hell do you conclude that anyone that wants to overclock is likely to be a liar as well?
I'm typing this on an overclocked system I built years ago -- why did I overclock? Becau
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:3, Informative)
That is not my conclusion. My conclusion is that someone is going to notice the selling point for this particular adaptor, namely what I quoted with a stress on "The warranty of your processor can be kept alive." And will think they now have a risk-free overclocking experience.
I have NO problems with people that want to overclock and risk burning out their system, as long as they don't ask for a refund
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Good answer. Aside from overclocking, this device (much like similar ones available from Evergreen Technologies [evertech.com] and Powerleap [powerleap.com]) will allow people to continue upgrading a PC that had previously maxxed-out its CPU upgrade options, thus reducing waste and generally being a good thing. And you want to label these people as liars and thieves. You just gained another foe.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:5, Funny)
I'll bet you're also the type who goes to the bathroom during TV commercials, which violates your contract to watch advertising which pays for TV programming. Hell, you're probably one of those scumbag Tivo users who fast-forwards through the commercials...
Do you have multiple computers at home? You're probably connecting them all to one of those damned routers, instead of paying the ISP more for each computer!
How are companies supposed to survive with people like this around? We need more laws and enforcement to make sure people are using things they purchase only in ways that the manufacturers permit!!
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
let's try the "hammer" test... (Score:2)
Does this pass the "hammer" test?
Even if you're accepting the risk of ruining your hammer by overpounding it, and are willingly releasing the vendor from warranty obligations, you _are_ morally bankrupt, and are swindling all involved companies by not buying a heavier hammer to begin with. This is because you're violating the implied contract you made with them to run the hammer at the advertised pound rate.
I'll bet you're also the type who goes to the bathroom during TV commercials, which violates you
Your Pending Lawsuit (Score:5, Funny)
Greetings,
I represent the CIAA (CPU Industry Association of America) and wish to inform you that you are to cease all overclocking immediately. As you may be aware, under the DMCA (Digital Millennium Clockcycles Act) when you purchase a CPU, you are merely purchasing silicon with a license to use it for X number of MHz. Exceeding this number is STEALING MHz from poor engineers.
Furthermore, multi-tasking OSes have been determined to be 'CPU piracy' becuase it allows multiple programs to share the CPU. As 'sharing' has been determined to mean 'stealing' you will have to have a seperate CPU for each process you wish to run concurrently.
Thank you, and please continue to buy our products or we will be forced to sue again.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:5, Funny)
Speaking as someone who works in a computer store, it always goes like this when dealing with modded hardware:
1 : Did you ever or has anyone ever physically modified, altered or enhanced the hardware of your system?Yes. --> You were or should have been aware of the risks. You don't go about messing with valve settings, piston settings or the fuel-mixture of your car, do you? Get lost, warrenty voided.
No. --> Continue to next question.
2 : Did you ever or has anyone ever changed any settings in the BIOS, other then IDE or ACPI settings?
Yes. --> You ought to be aware of the risks of messing with voltages, multipliers and what have ye. Go to hell, warrenty voided.
No. --> Blame Intel or AMD, try to sell an expensive, new CPU.
What the hell is a BIOS? --> Compare BIOS with an STD so people fear it. Then try to sell an expensive, new CPU.
Yes, but I am an overclocker and modder. --> Violently remove customer from store. We don't sell 300 Euro brand-name cases, 500 Euro brand-name PSUs or 750 Euro brand-name water-cooling rigs. Hence why we don't make money on them anyways. (That, and those "Look at my prefab case window mod and 750 Euro water cooling rig that uses an aluminium radiator, copper heatsink and common tapwater!" annoy me.)
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
You'd void my warranty for setting a BIOS password, eh?
I'm glad you post in Euros, that way I know I don't have to worry about ever buying from your craptastic service storefront.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Prices in the US* are cheaper anyways. My goverment bends me over backwards financially so they can afford their crappy socialist/hippy economic model of wasting money on hopeless people by making hard-working people pay more.
* = Assuming you are from the US.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2, Interesting)
People argue about returning equipment that they fsck up all of the time. When I used to work at Computer City (6 yrs ago), there was a guy who came in just about every month after boogering up his system and argue that he shouldn't have to pay for service, even though he was out of warranty.
2) The prices for these CP
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:3, Informative)
As someone that's worked for a computer store, who gives a shit? If there's nothing on the CPU indicating it's been tampered with or abused, then the retailer can make a warranty/DOA claim with their distributor/supplier and won't be left out of pocket, si
Oh no! (Score:3, Funny)
Clearly these things should be illegal under the DMCA. Claims that Erasers have significant other functions are all lies.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
I had to underclock my 1400 MHz Tbird to 1302 MHz (124MHz FSB on a KT7A-RAID) to get it to run without segfaults. So now I feel justified and morally superior to people who don't overclock, and doubly so to overclockers.
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Re:I'm sure retailers will love this. (Score:2)
Chinese 404? (Score:2)
Re:Chinese 404? (Score:2)
Will heatsinks work? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Will heatsinks work? (Score:5, Funny)
Someday I'll exact my revenge.
Re:Will heatsinks work? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Will heatsinks work? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:That's the point I was making. (Score:2)
But then I would probably prefer to go with connecting the bridges but I was not successful with the crazy-glue route--the glue kept lifting off the chip's surface as I tried to remove the masking tape
"whimpy fans" (Score:2)
* okay, so this AMD retail heatsink comes with a copper inlay and the fan runs at 5000 rpm
Re:That's the point I was making. (Score:2)
stop using mozilla..
Heatsinks & Fans (Score:3, Interesting)
How reliable/good are these heatsinks and fans? And what other companies manufacture compatible heatsinks and fans?
Joyful 403.9 error message (Score:5, Funny)
Law? Shows? Identical? Has the too many people deposits and withdraws the Web railroad platform. Line following? Does: * Presses re- trims presses? Or shortly after again? *? www.upgradeware.com head? Then examines you think? Looks for it? HTTP 403.9 - prohibitions deposits and withdrawals: Too many users? Receives? Stands Internet Information Services Technique? (Supplies the technique? Supports the person? Use) * Background: If the Web servo bustles about, also because? Many? Road traffic? Sends? Law? Manages your request? Fresh? * Other? Microsoft Support
sounds like most error messages... confusing in every way...
Re:Joyful 403.9 error message (Score:2)
XP-TMC: Solution to the /. effect? (Score:3, Funny)
Solving an Old Problem Elegantly: Using the XP-TMC to Deal with the Slashdot Effect.
Apparently the guys at Upgradeware could use one of these
poor Athlon MP ;-( (Score:2)
Troll (Score:4, Funny)
That's the only bit I could read. Informative though.
Why bother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, there are a very few number of people out there (and I mean maybe a handful) who have systems that for whatever reason can't handle a motherboard swapout but, apart for that tiny subset, this isn't worth the effort.
Why go to this much trouble and risk - possibly ruining a brand new CPU in the process - for a small bump in performance when you could swap both parts at once with less hassle and for greater gain?
That old CPU and motherboard doesn't have to go to waste either - find a cheap case for it, put in a minimal amount of memory (assuming you didn't buy some new RAM as part of your upgrade), a cheap NIC and an old hard drive (even a 250MB drive!) and you've got a nice little runner that'll act as a nice firewall/server/whatever. Let's face it, if you're the kind of guy that would upgrade a PC's CPU to squeeze out a few more clock cycles then you're the kind of guy who'll have those kinds of parts lying around doing nothing.
This may seem like a cheap upgrade option but if you fry that new CPU then it'll turn out to be a very expensive one.
Re:Why bother? (Score:3, Insightful)
2600+ isn't a Barton chip... (Score:5, Informative)
The Barton core chips are:
Barton 3200+ (2.250GHz, 512KB cache);
Barton 3000+ (2.167GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2800+ (2.083GHz, 512KB L2 cache);
Barton 2500+ (1.833GHz, 512KB L2 cache).
The top Thorougbred core chips are:
Thoroughbred 2800+ (2.250GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2700+ (2.167GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2600+ (2.083GHz, 256KB L2 cache);
Thoroughbred 2400+ (2.000GHz, 256KB L2 cache).
Note the increased L2 cache size on the Barton, which AMD cite as the reason for the 200-300 point rise in their performance rating for those chips (eg, Barton 2.167 GHz = Thoroughbred 2.167GHz + 300). Obviously, the latest FSB bump introduced with the Barton family helps too.
In some situations a Thoroughbred 2800+ will outpace a Barton 3000+ because of it's greater clock speed but, in most cases, the Barton with its greater L2 cache will win out.
Anyhow, given this story is about "overclockers looking to upgrade their age old Athlon mobo (KT133, KT266 etc.) with a spanking new AMD Barton CPU", I thought it prudent to point out your incorrect assumption about the XP 2600+ chip.
In all likelyhood, you probably wouldn't need any sort of adapter to fit a Thoroughbred chip to most older Athlon motherboards - I know that I could swap the 1.2GHz CPU in my machine for a 2800+ with no hassle but wouldn't be able to do the same with a 3200+, or even a 2500+.
But if you're really going to skip the 2800+ for the 3000+ or 3200+, then you're paying 50 percent or 110 percent more for your CPU in the first place. And if you're doing that, then you might as well be buying a new motherboard.
Re:2600+ isn't a Barton chip... (Score:2)
Re:Video card (Score:2)
Re:Video card (Score:2)
Re:Why bother? (Score:2)
Why get this? (Score:3, Insightful)
For one I attend lots of various LAN parties. I'm sure others who go will catch a similar situation if they have not.
Bob: "Hey Tom, Nice Box..."
Tom: "Thanks Bob... it's a stock AMD"
Bob: "Yeah, but did you see Vince's Water-cooled rig? I can't believe he got that 2100+ so high"
*Tom walks away in shame*
Re:Why get this? (Score:3, Funny)
Me: "Hey Cindy, nice box!"
Cindy: *smack*
mm, the smell of burning karma
Wrong.. (Score:5, Funny)
Underclocking Becomes Latest Computer Craze [bbspot.com]
Re:Wrong.. (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the rigs [hardware.fr] of the creator and webmaster of the most visited french hardware site [hardware.fr]
Re:Wrong.. (Score:2)
Re:Wrong.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wrong.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine, having a quiet computer idling away at say 500Mhz..more than enough to use email, write up documents, read slashdot. (all while the CPU remains relatively cool) Then, when you want to play Quake III or compile a Linux kernel, hit the TURBO on for 2000Mhz.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wrong.. (Score:2)
SWEET (Score:2)
I read about the adaptor on toms hardware, but I didn't know it also let you use slower FSB settings. This kicks ass!
Sorry for the sincerity, as opposed to the cynical vindictive that so characterizes discussion between intelligent people these days, it's just that I'm just ver
You call that OLD? (Score:2)
torn about the value of this thing. (Score:2, Interesting)
This article is, like, so 90's (Score:3)
Re:This article is, like, so 90's (Score:2)
I also have a 1.13 Athlon which has been run at 1.26 for the same length of time. That one doesn't even need any extra cooling. Sweat your assets!
check this out - magic? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Overclocking the "old" Athlon? (Score:2)
Using Old Hardware and Loving It
Doesn't void warranty? (Score:2)
something wrong with your Athalon system? (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, it's running FreeBSD, so maybe your problems lie, ahem, elsewhere.
Re:something wrong with your Athalon system? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:something wrong with your Athalon system? (Score:4, Funny)
"Of course, you wouldn't believe how much I spend a month on refridgerating that thing. Wowsers!"
Re:something wrong with your Athalon system? (Score:2)
That's pretty good. Usually using knock-offs like Athalon, Panaphonics or Sorny is just GAGGING for trouble.
Re:something wrong with your Athalon system? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Ha! (Score:3, Informative)
I have VIA KT133 board that wouldn't last over a day on Windows.. reformated and reinstalled several times and no help..
Now the system runs linux and its been up for over a month. No odd crashes, segfaults, or lockups.
My desktop computer has a nForce 2 chipset.. Totally reliable and not a single system crash.
Re:Ha! (Score:2, Informative)
The problem is the PCI implementation is flawed (to put it mildly) and especially since my fileserver on an old Intel 440BX runs a software raid array with 3 IDE controllers (including onboard), we're talking serious PCI usage here. Definately NOT a job for VIA.
My desktop (windows) is running an nForce2 and its rock sol
Re:Ha! (Score:5, Informative)
It is? If you're having trouble with the stability of your system, it's most probably either your Power Supply Unit or RAM, don't blame the CPU.
I have an "Athlon System" with good RAM and CPU and it hasn't been down in about 3 years.
I don't see why you got modded up as funny, as it wasn't.
Re:Ha! (Score:3, Interesting)
I have come to the concl
Re:Ha! (Score:3, Interesting)
The weird part is it's running off a really old AOpen 230W ATX PSU, which I would think was massively under-spec considering the box has got a Geforce 5600 Ultra, 1.5 Gig of DDR2100, 2 SCSI cards, 2 burners, and a Seagate SX44..... 'Elite' (47 gig double height USCSI disk, eats about 50W on its own....).
This box has NEVER crashed on me, except when I booted a 2.5.something k
Re:Ha! (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Ha! (Score:3, Interesting)
Though I can support your stability claim, I learned a lesson about cooling those things. When I lived in my centrally air conditioned apartment, my athlon worked great. When I moved into an apartment that was considerably warmer, I started seeing instabilities plus the bios would scream at me to shut it down.
The truth of the matter is that the CPU can be bla
Strange (Score:4, Interesting)
And I've got cheap-ass ram in here to boot. I've been pretty impressed with the reliability so far.
I do wonder though if this adaptor will cause any problems. For one, the thermal sensor will no longer be in contact with the actual device, and for another the pin lengths will be longer. Could cause some problems...
Re:Strange (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Strange (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Strange (Score:5, Interesting)
amd700# uptime 7:28PM up 23 days, 23:10, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
It was shut down to rewire the rack. It's never gone down on its own. (Yeah, I know. Not the most strenuous load.)
Re:Slashdotted, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
My point is that, instead of sending a HTML page (possibly in another language) when an HTTP error is generated, it would be better if the server simply returned the HTTP error, and let the browser decide how to present it to the user. This removes the language barrier.
It was perhaps unfair of me to present this as strictly an IIS problem, because it is also possible to present custom error messages in Apache (and probably other web servers as well). The reason IIS deserves bashing here, is that it's defau
Re:Posted from an Athlon... (Score:2)
Not at all, 2100+ cpu/MB combos [pricewatch.com] starting at $100US. Not the greatest motherboards, but not bad for the price. Keep looking until you find stuff that will work with your existing ram, video, etc...