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Hardware

Motherboard Audio Comes Of Age 367

darth_silliarse writes "ExtremeTech have thankfully confirmed that I am not completely deaf - onboard m/b sound is not as bad as it sounds. Is onboard sound for the poor, needy or completely bone idle? What are other peoples opinions of m/b sound? If nothing else, it frees up a PCI or ISA slot... ;o)"
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Motherboard Audio Comes Of Age

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  • Good Enough (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KingJoshi ( 615691 ) <slashdot@joshi.tk> on Sunday July 06, 2003 @07:50AM (#6376408) Homepage
    I may be deaf, but I don't think most people are audiophiles. So motherboard sound is good enough. I think nvidia2 graphics cards are good enough for the masses because they don't play the latest and greatest games.

    BTW, how many slots do we really need? With so many USB peripherals, PCI and especially ISA slots aren't the important resources they once were.

  • by russx2 ( 572301 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @07:54AM (#6376420)
    As far as I'm concerned, it makes no odds these days whether you have the latest soundblaster or some cheapo onboard beast. Unless you have high quality speakers (which I imagine the average computer user doesn't) the difference is neglibile.

    Of course, I can't tell the difference between a 128 and a 160 mp3, so who am I to speak? :-)
  • Price (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jnguy ( 683993 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @07:55AM (#6376423) Homepage
    Not only can you save a pci card, it is also cheaper and less of a hassle a lot of times. Some motherboards have excellent on board audio, such as the P4S8X [motherboards.org] I think it really depends on if you think its worth it. I can do fine with just the bios speaker going beep beep beep.
  • by ProfessionalCookie ( 673314 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:08AM (#6376461) Journal
    I'll bite

    That isn't true at all. They sound identical. I don't know what kind of eqiptment equipment you're using or at what settings but in iTunes with Sound Check, Sound Enhancer and EQs all off they sound perfectly identical coming from my Quicksilver of straight from my Receiver (which is hooked up to Edirol Monitors).

    As an additional note it also sounds the same as if I port it through the UA-700 or if I play the MP3's through Peak instead of iTunes.
  • by nut ( 19435 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:14AM (#6376478)
    One of the biggest things I like about modern PC's is that they're just like lego. You can buy the motherboard, CPU, sound card, video card, etc... you want, stick them all together, and hey presto! It works! And more importantly it gives me choice.

    Motherboards should have nothing on them except lots of slots. I like my computers modular.
  • by jstockdale ( 258118 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:27AM (#6376503) Homepage Journal
    for quite some time now and I mean I've sure found the same thing. I can't seem to hear the difference between audio out and the rest of the hardware plugged into my stereo. Seems like 5.1 onboard is coming of age being analog^W digital and all ... erm ...

    ... nevermind

    *thud*
  • by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:29AM (#6376507) Homepage Journal
    I would check your cable if I were you, its possible your using some crappy 50p one and running it alongside your powercable.
    *THAT* would explain the difference more than anything.
  • speakers (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Pompatus ( 642396 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:50AM (#6376547) Journal
    I think onboard sound is adequate because most people plug in cheap speakers that aren't able to take advantage of any recent technilogical advances in audio

    Audio has reached a point where cheap is good enough for most people. (sorry for bad grammer or bad spelling but it's 7:49 am, I haven't slept yet, and I'm quite drunk)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:52AM (#6376552)
    So let me see, I save on not buying a sound card... save again on a network card... save again on not buying a separate AGP video card... sling in an onboard modem riser and now all I need to do is spend $300 more on my CPU to get the same performance - wonderful! Why didn't I do this sooner!

    Plus if I do want to upgrade my board/my board develops problems, I need to think about replacing it with another all-in-one, reinstalling drivers etc. etc.

    In all seriousness, we've all read the stats. With onboard peripherals stealing as much as 3-5% up to 20% of your CPU usage. Is a mobo with the lot really all it's cracked up to be?

    What happens if I want to build a system WITHOUT said items? I'm gonna find myself short a PCI slot or two, even if I can free up the resources in the BIOS.

    Sure there is a better choice of onboard chipsets and the audio quality suits MOST applications. Yes - the drivers actually install now, but you can't replace a PCI sound card/modular solution for overall practicality.

    At the very least we need to keep the option of VGA-less, sound-less boards going so there is a choice.
  • Re:Good Enough (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 06, 2003 @08:53AM (#6376555)
    This reminds me of an argument about expandability in computers - specifically the number of pci slots they have. It was in a mixed IRC channel, windows and linux users mostly, who had been bitching about how quite a few machines only had 3, perhaps 4 PCI slots, how limited the expansion was, and the general attitude was they wouldn't spit on a motherboard with those limitations.

    when it came to the people who actually whinged, only 2 in the channel had anything more than an AGP video card in *ANY* slot - both only had extra PCI video cards. Everyone else was happily using their machines with nothing in the PCI slots.

    Lots of intellectual wankery I think. It's like a group of 15 year olds arguing about which cars are useful, which are shit, and none of the kids have licenses or have even seen the cars themselves.
  • by Eminor ( 455350 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @09:09AM (#6376600)
    If your not getting noise from the CPU or other devices, then onboard is fine for listening to music.

    If you are are a musician doing recordings, spend some dough and get a high quality external sound D/A converter.

    There really is not difference between pci sound cards and onboard sound. External sound is where the real difference is made.
  • bad trend (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 06, 2003 @09:35AM (#6376677)
    Call me paranoid, but isn't this just part of a really bad trend? That is, moving more and more functionality onto the "motherboard", until the motherboard _is_ the computer, it will come with a cheap plastic _sealed_ case around it, because there's no point in opening it up - no user servicable parts inside...
  • by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @10:18AM (#6376841) Journal
    First of all, an MP3 is not a good test. MP3s sound bad even at 320Kbps, because the algorithm simply does not scale beyond about 160Kbps. Vorbis and AAC are a whole lot better, but if you are on decent quality hardware then the artifacts are noticable.

    The reason that your example sounds better when burned to a CD is due to electrical noise. The inside of a computer case is an incredibly noisy environment (in both acoustic and EM specra). Converting the digital signal to analogue inside the case is going to sound bad. If you want decent sound from a computer then keep the signal 100% digital until after it has left the case. Keep the amplifier away from sources of EM noise (like, for example a computer).

    The question of whether onboard audio is adequate is quite stupid. There is no difference in quality between (for example) a SB PCI128 in a PCI slot, or one soldered onto the motherboard. They are both in the case, on the PCI side of the south-bridge. I consider onboard sound to be adequate for going 'pling', game sound effect, and music that I'm not really listening to. For anything else there is far too much noise, and this can only really be solved by using an external DAC, either in the form of a SPDIF output from a computer or a USB/FireWire external card. And ideally putting the computer in the next room, so you don't hear the fan noise.

    By the way, my onboard audio chip on a 2 year old motherboard has a perfectly acceptable digital output...

  • by f97tosc ( 578893 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @10:22AM (#6376856)
    Try the following:
    1) play mp3 through decent stereo straight from (Quicksilver) Mac.
    2) Burn same Mp3 to CD and play through same stereo.


    Now try the above but have a friend randomly switch sound sources while you look the other way. No trolling, but can you still sense the difference?

    There is a _lot_ of psychology in sound systems; oftentimes even the true audiophiles fail blind tests between pieces of equipment of which they have very different opinions.

    Tor
  • by JayJay.br ( 206867 ) <100jayto@@@gmail...com> on Sunday July 06, 2003 @10:39AM (#6376926)
    I tend to (dis)like anything onboard as much as the next slashdotter, but I've tried many soundcards, on and offboard (PC only, dunno about Macs), and the sound difference I feel is tiny enough to say that 90% of all regular PC users wouldn't even know the difference.

    I would say that the big difference to sound quality lies on the amplifiers, and of course, on the speakers.

    Myself, I use a Delta44 into an Alesis RA-100 which provides very low noise, and JBL speakers. Sound is as close to perfect as I would wish, meaning that it would only get better if I built new walls around here.

    That is what I think makes the difference. There is no way a decent amplifier and good speakers can compare to the crappy $5 PC "amplified speakers".

    There is one last difference: Impedance. But then again the crappy speakers wouldn't work with good cards.

    But for Joe 16bit, onboard sound and SBLive! are just the same. (and yes, I own both of those too).
  • Re:Good Enough (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kill-1 ( 36256 ) on Sunday July 06, 2003 @11:17AM (#6377072)
    Who still listens to music with cymbal crashes?

    No, seriously, MP3 quality really depends on the music genre. Metal/Rock sounds usually worse. Especially stuff like cymbals.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 06, 2003 @01:34PM (#6377761)
    Back in the 60s and 70s most people couldn't not
    differentiate the quality between ceramic and
    magnetic cartridge turntable. You would have
    people listen to different systems and they would
    for the most part not be able to say which one
    sounded the best.
    The sound quality is so different that you'd have
    to be partly deaf or a complete moron to think
    that either one sounded just as good.

    When it comes to MP3 vs CDs, in many cases it is
    virtually impossible to be able to differentiate,
    even with people with good hears.

    But, if what you listen to ressembles more noise
    than music. If all you want is some stuff that
    compares more with subway noise or crashing frying
    pans than music (like most modern so called rock
    music) then there might not be really noticeable
    or important differences. Rap recordings would
    also be hard to differenciate either way.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 06, 2003 @01:42PM (#6377799)
    oops! part of my message is missing

    If you listen to real music like classical
    music, opera, songs with soft music or good
    quality rock music you are likely to see a big
    difference between MP3 and CDs.

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