ATI's Radeon Linux drivers no longer supported?

SuperBug writes "After viewing the previous story on Slashdot about the Radeon 9800 vs GF FX 5900, I checked out ATI's web-site which seems to have been re-designed relatively recently. It seems strikingly similar to nVidia's site regarding the driver selections. I thought "great, ths should be much better to find my drivers now. At least a little simpler." To my surprise. I found this message for Linux Graphics Drivers "Not Supported". Thinking this had to be a mistake, I took a look at the "Discontinued Products" list under the customer care link and lo and behold. Just about every recent card is there. I just wanna know, what gives?"

vendor asshats

[TWX]

It sucks when a vendor won't consider supporting their products in OSes that don't have massive market share, but it sucks worse when they stop supporting them after they've started. Many people using Linux don't have nearly as many choices for hardware as it would seem initially.

As a group, people should email or write to ATI and ask for drivers. If they've already written them, it shouldn't be too much trouble to get them to post them again. If they still decide not to provide support, we just stop using their products.

I know that the ATI Radeons are the new hotness of the video scene. Remember though, Number9, Rendition, 3dFX, and many others have held that title, only to be almost completely out of business by now (or completely, in some cases).

Cool yer jets

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep your panties on, SpiderBug. Most likely, the companies lawyers thought it best if the DefaultState for products is "Not Supported". Then the nimrod who redesigned their website screwed up and none of the new cards were put into the product Db.

Sheesh. Slashdot: News for Screamin' Mimis

Re:Is that an official distribution?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no offical ATI drivers anyway, other than the FireGL drivers. So all Linux drivers are technically "drivers that some guy built", even the XFree86 ones. As far as I know, the XFree86 ATI drivers are still there, they still work, and they'll probably still get patches from ATI now & again. This is Non Event No. 452 this week alone.

Not too open source friendly...

[Anonymous Coward]

The drop down DHTML menu doesn't work right with Mozilla. The menus are offset to the left. Looks like ATI doesn't like open source software anymore. With the performance of NVidia's and ATI's products so close to eachother, this might be the drawback which concludes the decision which card it will be next fall.

Re:ATI Linux Drivers

[phoxix]

ATI XFree Drivers have always been written by third parties.

Their 3d drivers are written in-house. (Download the package and see the random @ati.com email addresses you will see).

Sunny Dubey

did they ever support linux?

[vinays]

As far as I know, their normal Radeon cards have never supported linux..

Its only the FireGL cards which do ...

However, the FireGL drivers also run the Radeon cards .. which is probably where the past assumed 'linux support' came from

their loss

[thoolihan]

The writing is already on the wall, people are moving to GNU/Linux. If ATI doesn't want to support them, Nvidia will sell them cards.

-t

Re:possible answers?

[CaptnMArk]

This is is actually the way they should be doing things.

Maybe provide "half-supported" binary only drivers for their brand new chipsets.

But for long term I strongly perfer open source drivers (dri.sourceforge.net).

(a radeon user because of open source drivers)

Not Completely Discontinued

[YodaToad]

I used to have a Radeon 9700 pro (until my new motherboard decided it didn't want to work with it... it's a Gigabyte GA-SINXP1394 fyi) and I used it under linux using the ATI drivers. The thing is, with the newer r300 based cards (starting at the 9000 I believe) the interface is so similar to the FireGL cards that under linux you use the FireGL drivers, not some r300 specific drivers. I looked on the ATI site and the FireGL drivers are still available under linux. Sorry, I don't remember which FireGL drivers they were (I haven't used them in awhile), but I'm sure somebody else here knows.

In a related note: Maybe ATI just hasn't had the time to move the linux driver section to the new design? Sure, that would be the wrong thing to do, but nowadays in the "release now, fix later" world it happens all the time. Just don't go bashing ATI until there's official word on the subject.

Re:This article is all wrong

[haa...jesus christ]

Lastly, why don't slashdot editors do some sort of background checking. What are they being paid for?

This is an excellent question - why aren't these guys calling ATI and asking them questions, like a real journalist would? I realize that Slashdot isn't a 'real' news site, and thus the operators aren't real editors, but it would make sense to have them do some of the leg work.

semi-related question: exactly what do the slashdot editors do all day (not meant as a loaded question)?

ATI drivers still suck.

[supabeast!]

I've given up on ATI because of their crappy drivers. Sure the drivers are no longer the huge bottleneck that they once were, but it's all still a big mess on Windows, and they are real bastards about just being upfront and posting decent Linux drivers for download. Since buying my Radeon 9700 Pro I have had numerous problems trying to run games on it under Windows XP and Mandrake Linux, and at this point, I'd rather just lose some performance and go back to running Nvidia cards with detonators.

Just dont buy it

[Anonymous Coward]

When I buy a computer (even if its for the company or a friend), I check for the linux support.

ATI does'nt support linux? They don't deserve (need) your money since you use Linux.

You've got things out of order

[fobbman]

Before you post stories to Slashdot and stirring up the masses, why don't you try to contact ATI customer support either through email [ati.com] ? That seems to be much easier, and much more productive, than taking up front page space.

This is an ongoing problem...

[wiresquire]

The lack of support by vendors makes it real difficult for people to really have confidence in Linux, and makes them keep that partition with that other OS on it.

Just over the past month, I've got a digital camera that isn't supported. Actually, I think I nearly fried it trying to get it to work, but that's another story. Then I went looking for a 6 in 1 adapter for it. As I was browsing through the store and on the net, I was thinking to myself "If just *one* of these dang things said it supported Linux, I'd buy it!".

There's a market for vendors for people who don't want to compile major parts of an operating system like the kernel, X etc.

Hey vendors, this is a growing market! Come on in, the water's fine!

xbox

[hpavc]

perhaps this may be the price they pay for being a part of xbox?

Re:ATI Linux Drivers

[MsGeek]

The difference is that NVidia's drivers WORK. And they work WELL. I would rather have drivers that work than drivers that are open source and suck. NVidia is pretty much the only game in town for high-end gaming graphics under Linux. BTW their installer is perhaps one of the easiest under Linux. Almost at Windoze "point and drool" level.

Re:Radeon is supported by XFree86 team

[Anonymous Coward]

They also refuse to provide the information to XiG, so you don't even have the choice of buying a commercial driver.

Well I guess I'm glad I bought my NVidia GeForce FX 5600 card then instead of the ATI Radeon I was looking at. It may not be the fastest card in it's class, but I can go to Nvidia's web site and download a driver for Linux.

Re:ATI Linux Drivers

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure. The Vortex Audio drivers used to work, too. Then Vortex went under, and left the binary drivers with no support. Vortex owners are now stuck with an old binary Open Sound System only driver that they cannot upgrade or fix. You can forget trying to get support for your Vortex card under anything other than Linux (FreeBSD has had some success with the Linux binary layer & a wrapper, but it is hardly ideal).

I'd rather have open specs, thanks.

Re:possible answers?

[letxa2000]

Maybe in a few years, the ONLY support will be for Windows. Remember, it's a Dog-Eat-Dog World where only the Fittest will survive, And Linux, BSD, Mac OX X, and any other Non MS OS is Dead or Dying.

That's how it has been for years, mostly. But if you haven't noticed more and more people, companies, and governments are using Linux lately. There is no indication this trend will stop. Hardware companies might be able to ignore Linux for another year or two, but beyond that they do so at their peril.

Don't worry--more, not fewer, companies will be supporting Linux in the future.

Re:NVidia vs. ATI

[josh crawley]

Speaking as someone who just installed Knoppix and the Nvidia drivers you're full of it.

Just grab the GLX and Kernel [4363 is latest] tar.gz's. Unpack them, export IGNORE_CC_MISMATCH=true. go into the Kernel directory, make, go into the GLX directory, make, go into /etc/X11, edit XF86CONFIG-4 [e.g. remove dri, etc.. replace nv with nvidia], add nvidia to your /etc/modules

now either reboot or isnmod nvidia and launch startx. Boom NVIDIA drivers.

WOW THAT'S SO SIMPLE I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY ANYONE USES MICROSOFT

Re:possible answers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Drivers have always sucked from ATI.

I still can not believe it when I hear stories like yours.

LETS GET IT STRAIGHT PEOPLE, ATI's drivers suck, they've always sucked, they always will suck.

Man, I hate that these ATI zealots keep growing in numbers. They keep hoping "ah ATI, has changed". THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED, they never will. Their drivers suck like they always have.

Dammit, this is like the 5th time I've posted almost this exact same thing.

People be stupid.

Yeah, this says it all.

[Erris]

Richard Huddy: ATI gives Linux drivers quite a high priority - but there's just way too much intellectual property exposed in the low level chip interfaces so we don't put that into the public domain. ...

What is perhaps most impressive is how fast Microsoft have innovated with DirectX. They're produced a new version about once per year for the last six years, and they've now achieved the impressive step of releasing DirectX 9 which has support for all of next year's hardware already built in!

In bed with the beast.

Re:possible answers?

[nurd68]

Look at what we see: broken nVidia drivers, broken ATI drivers.

Let us suppose, just for a minute, that ALL DRIVERS SUCK.

They are all broken, in some way or another. All companies push stuff that isn't ready out the door, especially "stuff that can be fixed in software".

I look at it this way - I would rather have an honestly broken, open-source driver with a public buglist, than a closed "oh, it's ready to ship" driver that you can get no help on at all.

At least then I can work on it in my spare time, to try and get it to play nicely.

I just bought a Radeon 9800. Why? Because I think that when you take away nVidia's driver cheats, ATI has the superior hardware. Can I use it right now? Nope. But, I have a spare box with an AGP slot, source code for the R200's, and some free time. Maybe I can get it up and running and help out a bit. The kernel stuff should already work fine, considering that the ATI drivers don't require a kernel patch to work.

So, in short - all software sucks; open OS's just give me the ability to make it suck less, and that's why I prefer them.

Re:possible answers?

[homer_ca]

He's not even talking about Linux driver support. Some companies have a long history of crappy support for even Windows drivers. Things like BSOD hell and nonexistant Windows 2000/XP drivers for relatively recent products like from 1999. If you want to name names, ATI (TV tuners, Rage Fury MAXX), Creative (DVD decoders, Nomad MP3 player), Epson scanners.

In this I have to give props to NVIDIA for their Unified Driver architecture. One download that even works with an ancient TNT2 M64.

Re:okay enough is enough

[reiggin]

Yes, let's use terroristic tactics to garner their support. Very mature. Give me one example where this kind of a tactic has worked? Some in the Linux community need to grow up and play the game like adults.

P.S. This isn't meant to be trollish or inflamatory. Only pointing out that we can't stoop to a lower level in our attempt to reach a higher level.

Re:possible answers?

[orim]

So you will buy hardware that's 2fps faster with certain games for the possibility that you might write your own drivers?
And you think that with 'some free time' you can produce something stable enough, and something that will use the full capabilities of your card?

All I have to say: good luck, and we'll see you in 10 years.

Re:possible answers?

[Cloud 9]

If ATI would like to increase their sales, they had damn well get us IT people on their side... we influence far more people than they realize... and that can make or break a company.

Most hardware manufacturers don't make the big bucks by selling their parts a la carte, they make the big bucks through huge OEM deals with system builders. Why do people always seem to ignore that?

Re:possible answers?

[riko_at_anubics]

wait...
first of all not every posix compliant system will become unlegal. BSD was there BEFORE SysV, and consequently BSD based system can't be touched (that is to say FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Darwin BSD -- MacOS X's kernel). Moreover you can't forget the HURD...
They sued IBM (and not Linus Torwalds or Linux) because they think that IBM developers copied SCO's code into Linux.
Even if IBM loses (and I'm not so sure about it), Linux code which is not copied (the most, copied parts are told to be SMP and that stuff, not Linux home user/small-middle companies stuff) Linux itself won't become outlaw.
There are just some parts which will have to be rewritten (but let me tell you that unless your home 32bit computer has got more than 4GB of RAM you won't need them :-).
Moreover Microsoft is becoming arrogant. Companies are getting aware of that... ...
and if vendors do not make drivers (they are not doing them even today), well Linux is made by hackers... you can just learn how to code a driver you need and write it... it's not that difficult (ahem... i get paid for everything optimistic I say...).. well anyway.. ALSA is GPL'd... there are very good tutorials....
XFree86 is open source... again, very good tutorials...
Printers are easy to support...
About scanners.. Sane is really powerfull...
don't be afraid...

May the Source be with you.

Re:possible answers?

[Krojack]

Looks more like they are chooseing to stop support on cards as soon as possible. If your card isn't supported then what else to do but go out and buy the latest ATI card that is supported. Sounds like a M$ move to me.

Can you blame them?

[whjwhj]

I'm suprised they supported Linux in the first place! Why would any company bother to support a tiny tiny fraction of their market populated by arrogant geeks who whine all the time and never spend money?

Sounds to me like ATI has made a sound business decision.

Conspiracy Theory

[Shark]

I read this just after reading that ATI might replace nVidia in the next X-Box... Could this be part of the deal?