RIAA Nightmare: Pro-level Portable Hard Disk Recorder 240
ratfynk writes "Anybody interested in creating their own MP3 or WAV recordings should take a look at this device. It is a compact hard drive recorder that looks like it is the next logical step beyond ADAT.
My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost. This device seems to fit the bill. Specs are available at micsupply.com. This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal." For a not-cheap but cheaper alternative, check out the updated-weekly Core Sound page on their PDA-based recorder mentioned a few months ago.
mirror (Score:2, Informative)
[uiuc.edu]
http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~kvandivo/micsupply/722.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Karma Whore Time (ps... mod parent above troll) (Score:4, Informative)
Now, the website looks like it is going tits-up so time for some cut-n-paste:
--ARTICLE BELOW--
Due to arrive late Summer '03
April 17, 2003
Sound Devices quietly previewed two upcoming audio recorders, the 744T and 722, at NAB 2003 in Las Vegas. These products have instantly re-defined portable audio recording and are being viewed as the logical successor to time-code-DAT and portable-DAT recorders. They also bring important new capabilities to audio professionals including portable multi-track recording, non-linear file access, the ability to record to both internal hard drive and compact flash, high-speed data transfers via FireWire, up to 24-bit
Below is preliminary feature information on one of the two recorders - the two channel 722. As Sound Devices nears introduction, additional product information will be posted. Please bookmark this page and stop by regularly. If you would like to be sent a notice that this information has been updated, drop us your e-mail address and request to be put on the recorder e-mailing list.
About the 722 (2 channel)
Features
Analog Audio Inputs and Outputs
* Two full-featured active-balanced mic/line level inputs with selectable 48 V phantom powering on XLR-3 connectors
* MS stereo matrix
* High-resolution A/D and D/A converters
* Full input-to-output routing matrix
* Mic/line-level selectable outputs on balanced TA3 connectors
* Headphone output on 3.5-mm jack with level control
* Headphone source selection can monitor any input or output, including real time post-record monitoring
* Adjustable high-pass filter on XLR inputs
Display, Metering, and Controls
* Front panel backlit LCD display viewable in all lighting conditions
* Sunlight-viewable LED meter selectable among multiple sources, including analog input levels
Digital I/O
* Two-channel AES input on balanced TA3 connector
* Two-channel S/PDIF input on RCA connector
* AES real time digital outputs on balanced TA3 connector
* S/PDIF real time output on RCA connector
Recorder
* Selectable track arming of track 1 or 2
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz
* Records to uncompressed
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo
Data Storage (Medium)
* Internal 40 GB 2.5-inch hard drive (field removable and replaceable)
* CF (type I, II, and + compatible) slot for removable medium
* Recording to internal hard drive, CF, or mirror to both mediums (identical file format)
* Record buffer of 20 second at 24-bit / 48 kHz x 2 (10 seconds at 24/96 x 2)
External Data Interface
* 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
* Serial port (future expansion)
* Word clock input and output - also allows linking multiple units
Powering
* Removable Lion rechargeable battery compatible with Sony M and L mounts
* Voltage metering on front panel LCD display
* 5-18 VDC input via 4-pin Hirose connector for external powering
Mechanicals
* Class-defining compact design
* Extruded aluminum chassis
Estimated 722 Retail Price: * ~$2000 with 40 GB internal drive
Estimated 744T Price: ~$4000
Please note that features, specifications, and pricing are subject to change...and will. This is not a complete list of features.
--E
Google Cache (Score:5, Informative)
Google Cache [google.com]
Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
On one spec, it says:
* Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
* Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz
Impressive, that's what most digital recorders can do. Then it follows with:
* On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo
A professional device that will do MP3, but only at crappy levels. Most high end gear encodes at 320K at least.
If you can do without MP3 support, Mackie, Alesis, and others have beautiful 24 track HD recorders that will record in 96K/32bit. Sure, it gets hefty for drive space, and it's 2U. Priced around $2K it's comparable, but offers better quality over more channels. Take your pick, but this little device doesn't seem worth the money.
I've been following this... (Score:4, Informative)
So is pro-level MiniDisc or DAT recorders... (Score:3, Informative)
I think the device is a progression from DAT, just like how there are hard-drive modules for DV video cameras as another storage device to store recorded data. Tape is fine, but not if you need to record long sessions or need to be able to work on them using NLE or audio tools without having to do some form of DV tape or DAT tape to file transfer as an interim step.
Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait) (Score:5, Informative)
Well, that speculation wasn't entirely baseless. In the mid-eighties the RIAA made a ridiculous stink over DAT machines, worrying about lost cassette sales etc.
I agree it was used to spice up the story (just like the terms "Mozilla, OGG, Kernel, and AMD), but I suspect the author was probably thinking about that. So no, I don't agree with the flamebait comment.
Re:*Exactly* (Score:5, Informative)
Why would the RIAA give a damn about this? It is a portable recording device. A simple search turns up these Roland [rolandus.com] recording devices. It's far from the first hard disk recorder and is far from the best option to do what the RIAA cares about: pirating CDs. (Not to mention that portable DAT recorders have been around for 10 years). The RIAA doesn't care about professional recording devices, only consumer-level.
Two more (Score:3, Informative)
mirror 2 [mtu.edu]
mirror 3 [mtu.edu]
Why MP3? (Score:3, Informative)
- Faster compression
- Smaller files
- Better sound quality
- Free technology
So what good reasons remain for using MP3? (Except from the tons of pirat MP3s you can download from the net.)Re:I've been following this... (Score:3, Informative)
First, the devices are not made by Core Sound, they're made by Sound Devices. Core Sound was only mentioned because of their PDA recorder which was mentioned here recently. And yes, generally their products are crap and most of the time they're just vaporware, never even being released.
Second, they are not limited to two hours of recording. They are, however, limited to 2 gigabytes for each wav file, but this is a limitation of the format, not of the device. It appears that the devices also record in .bwf files, which they state are uncompressed. I assume that this is to get around the 2 gig limit.
Most of us that do record live concerts think that they have excellent potential. The only reason anyone is thinking twice about them is because of the preamp built in and whether or not it's at the same level as a MiniMe or a Lunatec V3.
Re:Doesn't matter. (Score:3, Informative)
Into your PC running this... Cubase SX [steinberg.net]
Hey super, you now have the same recording capability as many studios claiming to run ProTools HD (which your million dollar studio is most likely running.) And before you holler about recording quality, lemme tell you that it's 90% engineer, 10% equipment, and I'm being generous to the equipment.
The cost? Under a grand if you don't buy at Guitar Center.
The best part? You don't need a mac. Sorry mac users, it's true. Thanks to firewire the PC has caught up. And before someone starts shouting Digi001 or Digi002 and the omnipresent ProTools or the venerable Logic Audio... the only real difference between the production suites anymore is interface and editing tools (and *not* sound quality, no matter what you're told.)
Just my opinion.
--
mcp.kaaos
Re:Hmmm (Score:1, Informative)
but this little device doesn't seem worth the money
little, until you consider field recording.
for field recording, the size is right, because lugging around a 24-track HD recorder is just not an option at music festivals at remote locations (say, 8,000 feet in the colorado rockies - http://www.nedfest.com). you want something that's relatively small. i've seen some of these units you mentioned, and they're a little large for my taste.
another problem with larger units is the power requirements. smaller units can be run off smaller (and therefore more portable) power sources, which is a good thing, especially if power in the venue in which you are recording is sketchy or unavailable.
i agree though, the price point is a little high. one of the better portable DAT recorders (the TASCAM DA-P1) sells for around $1200. when these units hit that price point, i'll probably consider buying one.
and i agree with you on the mp3 option - who cares. if i'm going to record at 24/96, the last thing i'm going to do is create an MP3 for it. i'm gonna leave it digital on a particular medium and use an outboard A/D converter that can handle those bitrates for playback.
my biggest gripe is that i've seen this all before - these devices always get advertised, but they never actually seem to get created. terminal vaporware. ugh.
stephen
Another cheap alternative digital recorder (Score:2, Informative)
ADAT Safe - for now at lest (Score:2, Informative)
The suits will probably get their knickers in a twist if it doesn't support SCMS though.
It will make for some killer audience and board tapes though. Too bad this didn't exist back when I was making "Dead" tapes. Sigh....
Re:$2000/$4000? Why not Minidisc? (Score:5, Informative)
Mini disc, well you don't really have a valid point on. I don't remember the exact size of mini-disk, but I believe it's about 120megs per disk highly compressed. Doesn't really compare. Mini-disk isn't really adquate for something you'd wish to publish.
The advantage of this unit to you for example would be the fact that records at twice the sampling rate of CD, higher bitrate, is compatable with the prefered connections used in recording rather then consumer grade solutions like the mini disk.
I don't mean to flame you at all, you are asking a very logical question. But imagine if you were an audio professional, who considered buying a laptop for portable recording. This would run you a good chunk of change for software and the hardware, $1000-$2000 would be reasonable for such a device that records at CD-quality. Then imagine if someone offered you a digital recording device, something that doesn't need a computer to operate, but has the ability to download quickly and be manipluated for publishing. Assuming your application is exclusivly recording sound, the cost for the stereo unit is comparable to what you'd spend on a kick ass laptop.
Clearly you are happy with mini-disk... lots of people are. It's a great consumer grade product which provides (though some would argue) quality superior to cassette what is termed, *near CD quality*. I'm not knocking them at all, far from it. Mini-disc has done wonders to giving home users the ability make pretty brilient recordings. However when you start maniplulating sounds, you really don't want something that is compressed. A few transformations on it, and it will sound like crap. Your master recordings these days you want atleast uncompressed CD quality.
Is $2000 spendy? Well, compair to a Sony portable dat recorder fetching somewhere along the lines of $800. It's going to offer 16bit up to 48kHZ recording ability, which is most adquate for audio mastering, very portable, going to need some extras to plug into a mixing board, but will not provide 20gigs of storage nor firewire for quick transfer to a system, nor will it provide 24bit 96kHz sound quality.
But if you one to say mini-disc suits your needs, then great. To be honest, I have a hard time determining the diffrence between *some* mini-disk recordings and CDs. Mini-disk is cool. It's not CD quality, but most people don't notice. It just doesn't nessicarly meet the minium requirements for publishing a CD on a professional level, which just takes up more space then a mini-disk can hold. Dat, Adat, and digital recording is much prefered.
Re:Why MP3? (Score:3, Informative)
Err, well, how about the fact that I have yet to see a portable or car CD player that plays a CD-ROM full of Ogg-vorbis files? When I'm at home, I can listen to my orignal CDs. There's no need for compression. When I'm on the road, I don't like to take my thousand or so CDs with me. But I need something to play the music on. So far, the only devices I know of that will play Ogg Vorbis files are PCs!
Nobody is going to use the MP3 encoder. (Score:3, Informative)
The cool thing about this is that it offers 2 tracks of 24/96 direct to HD recording. The people who want 24-bit words, the people who want that resolution, are the last people who would store their stuff as MP3. It makes WAVs (or BWFs, to get around the file size limit), which you can then mess with at home.
Did you miss that it's portable, and tiny, and runs on a camcorder-type rechargable battery pack? That if you need more than 3 hours at a shot it has a 5-18 volt locking DC input? The high-quality onboard mic preamps?
This is in a totally different category than a Mackie HD2496. The Mackie recorder is excellent for a studio, but I cannot fit it in my pocket, and if I could, how much extra gear would I need to keep it supplied with delicious power out in the field?
If I'm going to tape a concert, or make a documentary, or just go out and get samples for something, I'll go for a Sound Devices 722 [sonicsense.com], and the presence or absence of MP3 support will have nothing to do with that.
Re:Why mention RIAA? (-2, Flamebait) (Score:2, Informative)
Chris
Re:Wow, a portable hard disc recorder!! (Score:2, Informative)
DAT OR ADAT (Score:3, Informative)
This looks like a challenge to the DAT but to keep the quality up and remain pro it will always remain out of the price range of consumers. When you can walk around with an iPod that has all the tracks and convenience why would you bother with a pro bit of kit that is designed for recording live sounds (and has the outputs to support it).
There are already lots of DAT's that allow you to disable all digital copying due to the needs of professional studios but you don't see anyone on the train with one do you?
The reality is consumer and pro equipment has different needs and different functions and very rarely is there a crossover. I don't think the RIAA will be getting too worried providing this remains a pro choice...