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Music Media Hardware

RIAA Nightmare: Pro-level Portable Hard Disk Recorder 240

Posted by timothy
from the big-fat-record-button dept.
ratfynk writes "Anybody interested in creating their own MP3 or WAV recordings should take a look at this device. It is a compact hard drive recorder that looks like it is the next logical step beyond ADAT. My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost. This device seems to fit the bill. Specs are available at micsupply.com. This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal." For a not-cheap but cheaper alternative, check out the updated-weekly Core Sound page on their PDA-based recorder mentioned a few months ago.
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RIAA Nightmare: Pro-level Portable Hard Disk Recorder

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:24PM (#5913891)
    for one reason and one reason alone, fair fvcking use. we still have the rights in this country to purchase items to use for our convenience. they should not, and in my opinion, never will have the fvcking right to tell me that i as an american cannot buy a product because it would hurt their industry. its like telling a cay buyer not to buy a chevy because it would hurt his ford dealership.
    • by Uber Banker (655221) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:28PM (#5913949)
      Parent makes a valid point, pls mod up.

      Now, the website looks like it is going tits-up so time for some cut-n-paste:

      --ARTICLE BELOW--

      Due to arrive late Summer '03

      April 17, 2003

      Sound Devices quietly previewed two upcoming audio recorders, the 744T and 722, at NAB 2003 in Las Vegas. These products have instantly re-defined portable audio recording and are being viewed as the logical successor to time-code-DAT and portable-DAT recorders. They also bring important new capabilities to audio professionals including portable multi-track recording, non-linear file access, the ability to record to both internal hard drive and compact flash, high-speed data transfers via FireWire, up to 24-bit /96 kHz data rates with high-resolution A/D, native MP3 file encoding, and extended runtime from on-board batteries. The 744T and 722 recorders are slated for availability late summer 2003.

      Below is preliminary feature information on one of the two recorders - the two channel 722. As Sound Devices nears introduction, additional product information will be posted. Please bookmark this page and stop by regularly. If you would like to be sent a notice that this information has been updated, drop us your e-mail address and request to be put on the recorder e-mailing list.

      About the 722 (2 channel)

      Features
      Analog Audio Inputs and Outputs

      * Two full-featured active-balanced mic/line level inputs with selectable 48 V phantom powering on XLR-3 connectors
      * MS stereo matrix
      * High-resolution A/D and D/A converters
      * Full input-to-output routing matrix
      * Mic/line-level selectable outputs on balanced TA3 connectors
      * Headphone output on 3.5-mm jack with level control
      * Headphone source selection can monitor any input or output, including real time post-record monitoring
      * Adjustable high-pass filter on XLR inputs

      Display, Metering, and Controls

      * Front panel backlit LCD display viewable in all lighting conditions
      * Sunlight-viewable LED meter selectable among multiple sources, including analog input levels

      Digital I/O

      * Two-channel AES input on balanced TA3 connector
      * Two-channel S/PDIF input on RCA connector
      * AES real time digital outputs on balanced TA3 connector
      * S/PDIF real time output on RCA connector

      Recorder

      * Selectable track arming of track 1 or 2
      * Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
      * Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz
      * Records to uncompressed .wav or .bwf (mono or poly) files
      * On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

      Data Storage (Medium)

      * Internal 40 GB 2.5-inch hard drive (field removable and replaceable)
      * CF (type I, II, and + compatible) slot for removable medium
      * Recording to internal hard drive, CF, or mirror to both mediums (identical file format)
      * Record buffer of 20 second at 24-bit / 48 kHz x 2 (10 seconds at 24/96 x 2)

      External Data Interface

      * 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
      * Serial port (future expansion)
      * Word clock input and output - also allows linking multiple units

      Powering

      * Removable Lion rechargeable battery compatible with Sony M and L mounts
      * Voltage metering on front panel LCD display
      * 5-18 VDC input via 4-pin Hirose connector for external powering

      Mechanicals

      * Class-defining compact design
      * Extruded aluminum chassis

      Estimated 722 Retail Price: * ~$2000 with 40 GB internal drive

      Estimated 744T Price: ~$4000

      Please note that features, specifications, and pricing are subject to change...and will. This is not a complete list of features.

      --E
    • Just like fair use protected my rights to use DeCSS to rip some DVDs to my notebook HD so I can play them on a trip? Oh, you must have meant the way fair use protects my rights to use p2p software to distribute music I record or even download mp3s of songs on CDs I have.

      Jason
      ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
  • They can try... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by armyofone (594988) <armeeofone@hotmail.com> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:24PM (#5913893)
    This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal.

    The more they try, the more innovations will come along. The RIAA are fighting a losing battle. The sooner they realize it, the better off everyone, (including the RIAA), will be.
    • by siskbc (598067)
      Shit, they said that about the damned VCR. Neither their goals nor ours (a broad "us" I realize, but I digress) have changed in 20 years. They want money, we want freedom.

      Despite this, they've won. Why? We don't have libbyists! The EFF doesn't have enough money. What we need are for some high-profile geeks that are commercially successful and not particularly political in the real world (read: not Stallman) to openly back the EFF, donating money and such.

      Think if the EFF was even as powerful as the

    • Re:They can try... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by fishbowl (7759) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @05:44PM (#5914612)
      The thing about "making it illegal" is, there is a point at which they make it "illegal" to use the device to record my own music. At that moment, I have grounds for a federal lawsuit on first amendment pretenses, and possibly even criminal sanctions for an unlawful restraint of trade.

      I *WANT* them to cross that line. Then I want someone like Springsteen or Madonna to press the charges.

    • Re:They can try... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by squiggleslash (241428) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @06:23PM (#5914882) Homepage Journal
      Jeez. Will you people lay off?

      In the UK, the popular comedians Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse have a pair of characters called the "Self-righteous Brothers". Conversations usually go along the lines of:

      First: Did you hear about that Linus Torvalds? He wrote an operating system and distributed to everyone for free

      Second: Ah Torvalds, a master of his craft. His Linux kernel is widely regarded as one of the finest components of the GNU/Linux operating system, a superbly designed example of technical excellence
      First: Oh yes. And if Torvalds were to come round my house, I'd gladly shake him by the hand.
      Second: You're right there
      First: Mind you, if he were to invite himself in, start making himself some tea without even asking if I wanted some, made a mess all over the kitchen, and ate all my biscuits, I'd be outraged.
      Second: As well you might be.
      At this point, both characters are seething with rage
      First: I'd say "Oi! Torvalds! Noooo! You might be a superb C programmer, and your generousity distributing your operating system for free is well appreciated. But you don't start using up my tea, and making a mess of the kitchen, without my permission!" And I'd give him a slap.
      Second: And you'd be well in order there. Bloody computer programmers, think they own everything.
      You get the idea. Ok, Enfield and Whitehouse wouldn't choose such a nerdy subject, but you get the gist.

      And the moment someone comes up with anything to do with music, Slashdotters go off and do their "Bloody RIAA, think they own everything" act, no matter how inappropriate.

      We even saw that with the iTunes Music Store threads. That's the music service backed by the major labels. Those are the labels that fund the RIAA. Everyone saw that in the write ups and they still went into a frothing self-righteous quixotic rage about how the RIAA would try to shut it down.

      The RIAA hasn't made any comments to the best of my knowledge about this particular piece of equipment. Nor would they want to. It's as infringing as an MP3 player. It's not a way of transporting music to masses of people anonymously. It'll make no serious dent in piracy terms. And it'll make music more valuable. The RIAA have done some bloody stupid things before, but they're not challenging Apple over the iPod - why would they try to make this illegal?

      It gets worse. The writeup implies that the RIAA's solution to what it sees as threats is to go to congress and lobby for new laws. That's bollocks. The only new law the RIAA has lobbied for in recent history concerning copyright infringements has been a law allowing it to hack into computers. It's not a sane proposal - nobody would imply that - but it's a world away from proposing further restrictions on the use of content. For all the RIAA's faults, it isn't the MPAA. The MPAA got the DMCA through onto the statute books, I can't even say for definite if the RIAA supported that law, and it's not something they've encouraged their members to make use of, in the same way as the MPAA built the DMCA protected DVD CSS standards.

      Can we at least do ourselves some favours and, if we consider the RIAA the "enemy", presumably in reality for being the representative of music publishers we feel have foisted too much crap on the public and who have treated artists with less respect than they deserve, at least criticise them for what they are, rather than some stereotype of what they might become.

      • Which laws? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Convergence (64135)
        Well, the webcaster royalty payment law.

        Then there was the AHRA from about 15 years ago (which killed off DAT as a consumer audio technology) Oh, and the levy on blank CDR's.

        I dunno, did they lobby for the DMCA, or is 5 years too old to consider it? The reason the DMCA applies to DVD's is because they *do* include an access control technology. CDDA's don't. If you broke the access control technology on SACD, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that they'll come on you like a ton of bricks.

        They've agreed to lo
    • Re:They can try... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by yog (19073)
      This is just another hard disk recorder; what's the big deal? HD recorders have been around for years. These units are distinguished by the fact that they can encode MP3 and have CF slots, both of which sound like handy features to me but highly unlikely to attract the wrath of our friends at the RIAA. These products start at $2000 which is appropriate for their target market of recording professionals.

      You can buy a PC for around $300 or $400 that can record to hard disk and encode MP3 and write to a CF
  • by Bonker (243350) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:24PM (#5913896)
    I know, this story is not good enough to be posted just as hardware or audio news.

    What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting.
    • by L0stb0Y (108220) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:27PM (#5913926) Journal
      I could care less if they mention the RIAA or not, I enjoy hearing about interesting new products, especially tech-type toys. So "this story is not good enough" is from your perspective...with your wonderful paradigms...so yes, it was interesting enough for me to read even without the RIAA reference.

      (And a dig at RIAA just adds a little bounus humor!)

    • This is exactly what I thought, though I was a bit more cynical...if I worked at an audio supply place, I might post something to Slashdot...free advertising on a high-traffic site for only the effort of fabricating an RIAA tie-in.

      Of course, it could just be the poster wanting to get his story put up, but the paranoid view is much more fun...
      • Not really. It should be a serious concern. The RIAA probably will be over all of this like it has been all over DRM, protected cd's, mp3's cdwriters and the likes.

        After all, stereotypical views usually have a seed of truth, no matter how cynical you are.
        • Re:*Exactly* (Score:5, Informative)

          by angle_slam (623817) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:41PM (#5914075)
          Not really. It should be a serious concern. The RIAA probably will be over all of this like it has been all over DRM, protected cd's, mp3's cdwriters and the likes.

          Why would the RIAA give a damn about this? It is a portable recording device. A simple search turns up these Roland [rolandus.com] recording devices. It's far from the first hard disk recorder and is far from the best option to do what the RIAA cares about: pirating CDs. (Not to mention that portable DAT recorders have been around for 10 years). The RIAA doesn't care about professional recording devices, only consumer-level.

          • Remember, bootlegging is a culture that the RIAA doesn't like. Granted, it's not the first, but if more and more recorders like this show up, it's quite possible the RIAA will butt in.
    • by L. VeGas (580015) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:29PM (#5913957) Homepage Journal
      no kidding

      Well at least they didn't say...

      "Looks like a likely candidate for a Linux hack"
      or
      "This should be a significant challenge to the DMCA".
    • by NanoGator (522640) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:40PM (#5914067) Homepage Journal
      "What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting. "

      Well, that speculation wasn't entirely baseless. In the mid-eighties the RIAA made a ridiculous stink over DAT machines, worrying about lost cassette sales etc.

      I agree it was used to spice up the story (just like the terms "Mozilla, OGG, Kernel, and AMD), but I suspect the author was probably thinking about that. So no, I don't agree with the flamebait comment.
    • I suggest that you, kind sir/madam, do a search on Google to see what happened with the advent of the DAT that has plenty to do with RIAA. You might try starting with "SCMS" for your search. Then, you will see the parallels and reason for concern.

      Chris
    • What's otherwise a fairly interesting piece of hardware has no relation to the RIAA, so it's given one to make it more interesting.

      I've been bootlegging shows with something known as a Digital Audio Tape (DAT) deck for years. I just moved to something known in taper circles as a "laptop with a S/PDIF card in it". These devices, on the surface, seem quite tame at first, as well.

      When I saw this thing, I knew my illegal concert bootleg [archive.org]-creating days could continue on!

      You are clearly deluded if you think
  • mirror (Score:2, Informative)

    by kvandivo (207171) *
    in case micsupply.com doesn't last, purely for mirroring purposes....

    [uiuc.edu]
    http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~kvandivo/micsupply/722.h tm
  • by Gefiltefish11 (611646) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:25PM (#5913912)

    I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent. This is how it will work:

    A RIAA Official, wearing his dress uniform and goose-stepping, will arrive at the door of any family days after it becomes apparent that a child possesses any musical talent. The child will then be promptly escorted to an officially-sanctioned RIAA retraining facility for indoctrination. This methodology will prevent the production of music by any non-sanctioned source, which could be blamed for hurting profits.

    /premonition
    • by concept14 (144276) <allan.beattyNO@SPAMacm.org> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @05:09PM (#5914301) Homepage
      I believe that the long rang plan of the RIAA includes a mandatory international registry for all individuals with any musical talent.

      Does this mean they are going to drop most of the people who are signed with them now?
    • Interesting thought. I think a very strong copyright culture has already been created among many musicians.

      The musicians I hung around with growing up were pretty paranoid about copyrights and such. Filling out copyright registration forms for the library of congress, mailing yourself registered copies of your casettes and whining about your songs being stolen were often topics for discussion.

      While that is no different from the commercial software industry, these same musicians were making extra $$ cra

  • by VValdo (10446) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:26PM (#5913920)
    My interest is fair use, the ability to record my compositions and performance with studio grade equipment at a reasonable cost.

    No, this isn't "fair use"-- fair use [copyright.gov] is an allowance for you to use someone ELSE'S copyrighted material for a limited purpose-- a review, an excerpt, until recently a sample, etc for certain purposes. What you're talking about is a legitimate use that gives you the SAME powers as the RIAA has for their own copyrighted works. The RIAA can claim that you might use this to infringe on their copyrights. You can argue that they may use the equipment they currently use to infringe on yours.

    W
    • by hawkbug (94280) <psx AT fimble DOT com> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:33PM (#5913996) Homepage
      Right on man - I'm tired of people equating the RIAA with the government. There are plenty of other reasons to have equipment like this that don't involve infringing on copyrights held by the RIAA. It's just too bad that the average person who holds a copyright doesn't have as much say with Congress as the big guys do...
    • In addition to having nothing to do with fair use and nothing to do with RIAA, most recordings you'd make with it would be legitimate.

      If you've ever recorded at a live event like a concert, to get any quality recording you must set up mics that are high enough to pick up the band (and not the idiot in front of you whistling) and be positioned near the center for any reasonable stereo separation. If you're setting up 8' poles with mics and not thrown out of a concert, you're probably not breaking any rules
    • That's true. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by twitter (104583)
      What you're talking about is a legitimate use that gives you the SAME powers as the RIAA has for their own copyrighted works. The RIAA can claim that you might use this to infringe on their copyrights.

      Sure, that's what they said about Sony's DAT. Then poof, it was encumbered with DRM that kept you from making copies of your own music, recitations, bird calls, introspective silence, farts or anything as if it were owned by Micahel Jackson. We should not forget that twarted technology or the laws that did

  • Free As In (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:28PM (#5913933)
    "I'll copy it if I want, laws and copyright be damned!"

    But when the GPL is violated there is a virtual nerd riot here on Slashdot.

    Typical "something for nothing" Linux crowd.
    • if our IP system weren't so hopelessly corrupt, the GPL would not be needed.
    • Re:Free As In (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mugnyte (203225) *
      ..BEER. You equate the GPL with RIAA's use of market dominance to enforce a copyright?

      Howabout we get rid of the radio payola system, the ticketmaster lockout contracts, and the central radio ownership to ALLOW OTHER PEOPLE to get their music out and heard.

      Dude, nobody argues with the copyright. Its the ramming of the prices down everyone's throat - for a product we KNOW doesn't cost that much. If it walks and talks like a monopoly...

      Filesharing copyrighted material is - to me - a form of public prot
    • "I'll copy it if I want, laws and copyright be damned!"
      But when the GPL is violated there is a virtual nerd riot here on Slashdot.


      So you're surprised when people who like to share things are overprotective of the freedom to share things?

      You make it sound like they're being hypocrites but they are not. In a world where idea ownership (i.e., intellectual property) didn't exist, the GPL would just be redundant.

      Any other position would actually be *inconsistent* with the belief that monopolies over ideas
    • "I'll copy it if I want, laws and copyright be damned!"

      But when the GPL is violated there is a virtual nerd riot here on Slashdot.

      First, it's pretty stupid to equate the "Linux crowd" with the copyright infringing crowd. We're not the freaking borg, you know. Your post proves the point all by itself.

      Second, there is no double standard between fighting for free software and "stealing" music. Not that I condone it, but in both cases the person wants "information to be free". Right or wrong, at least

  • by t0ny (590331) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:28PM (#5913943)
    If we talk about it really quiet, maybe RIAA will never find out about it...
  • by aster_ken (516808) <dustincook469@live.com> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:28PM (#5913944)
    I posted this in the Dr. Dre article mentioned earlier, but it seems appropriate for here, too. It's a bit off-topic, so I won't mind it getting moderated as such, but moderators, if you feel the information in this is useful then mod it up so more people will see the resources I have listed.

    Yes, the RIAA will hate this.

    But that is not the problem.

    The underlying problem is this: we have broken intellectual property laws.

    The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.

    So now all of these broken laws are *entrenched* the world over. Dr. Dre, even as huge (no pun intended) as he is, will not make a difference changing these laws any more than you or I. I've said it before, people. The only thing that will finally fix these problems is getting a *huge* player - someone like AOL/Time Warner, General Electric, or Microsoft to stand up and say, "Hey! We feel that the current intellectual property laws are stifling competition, encouraging frivolous lawsuits with exponentially too large damages, and generally causes the state of mankind's advancement to diminish. Their reach should be reduced, and their protections should be diminished." then we will *not* get IP reform.

    So that leaves the average Slashdot reader three choices:

    1) Whine about it, do nothing, whine some more
    2) Write your congress people, consumer advocate groups, and manufactureres of IP and try to educate them on the true damage that current IP laws are causing
    3) Create and support a viable alternative that will gain momentum from consumer and commercial support that eventually can replace current business models and content-creator demand

    There are several projects in all three groups that have been started already. Some links:

    For item 1: Slashdot.org - seriously, there's more whining on here than just about anywhere else I go.

    For item 2: Please note that these links are very US-centric. As I am from the US, I do not know the laws or government structure of other countries and cannot make recommendations on who or what to write.

    http://www.house.gov - Write your representative. It is their *job* to voice the opinions of their constituents (though usually they voice the opinions of whoever contributes the most to their campaign fund).

    http://www.senate.gov - See above.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov - Write the president. Your letter may not be read, but please try.

    http://www.aclu.org - American Civil Liberties Union. These guys *try* to protect your freedoms. Try to make this an issue of civil liberties rather than commercial interests.

    http://www.eff.org - Electronic Frontier Foundation. DONATE! They need your money to continue fighting our fight!

    http://www.futureofmusic.org - Future of Music Coalition. They're trying to come up with a compromise. I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth the reading.

    http://www.lp.org - Libertarian Party. Support candidates that support you! The Libertarian Party believes in a system of government that doesn't restrict individual freedoms.

    http://www.democrats.org - Democratic Party. Write to their leaders. Encourage their platform to support legislation that would reduce the life of a copyright or encourage the rejection of software and "method" patents.

    http://www.gop.org - Republican Party. See above.

    For item 3:

    http://www.boycott-riaa.com - Discussions on getting the RIAA out of the picture. It's not totally productive, but some good ideas have come from their members.

    http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/6540 - A new peer-to-peer network that may actually get started. Developers and content-creators are especially encouraged to read this article AND the user comments.

    http://www.azoz.com - GREAT site. It's the home page of the guy who wrote the previously mentioned article
    • The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.The World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has taken America's already stringent copyright, trademark, registration, and patent laws and forced them upon signing members in slightly revised format.

      I think you mean "Europe's," not "America's." The most recent copyright extension was justified o

    • >(WIPO) has taken America's already stringent
      >copyright, trademark, registration, and patent
      >laws and forced them upon signing members in
      >slightly revised format.

      They have not forced anything on anybody. Democratic governments (including the US) have adopted these laws and implemented them. This represents the will of the people who participate in the political process. It also represents the will of the people who choose to ignore the political process, only to whine about it when their col
    • Actually, it is European interpretations of copyright law that WIPO has enforced on the rest of the world, including the USA. The European copyright tradition is much more in line with the thinking of the RIAA and MPAA than is the American copyright tradition, which comes from a Constitutional mandate to "promote the progress of science and the useful arts." As many in this forum and others have long been pointing out, current trends in copyright (and patent) law threaten to impede that progress. This is
    • 1) Whine about it, do nothing, whine some more
      As you point out, this is uninteresting.

      2) Write your congress people, consumer advocate groups, and manufactureres of IP and try to educate them on the true damage that current IP laws are causing
      Marginally more interesting, ultimately probably ineffective. Industries have vastly deeper pockets, and these days, government is for sale.

      3) Create and support a viable alternative that will gain momentum from consumer and commercial support that eventually

  • Cops! (Score:3, Funny)

    by blackmonday (607916) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:30PM (#5913972) Homepage
    Now, undercover police informants can wear a 24 track surround sound studio!

  • Google Cache (Score:5, Informative)

    by saitoh (589746) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:31PM (#5913978) Homepage
    already /.'ed... Another mirror:

    Google Cache [google.com]
  • This thing is heavy, ugly and will not fit in my pocket. Does it connect to iTunes? I did not think so! Who needs all that silly storage space and overhyped digital recording stuff anyway.

    Apple products are soo much more stylish and streamlined as well. >10% marketshare cannot be wrong.

  • Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)

    by Lxy (80823) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:34PM (#5914003) Journal
    This device is an odd one. A professional MP3 recorder? Isn't that like saying you bought an italian leather sofa then covered it with drop cloths as not to get it dirty?

    On one spec, it says:
    * Selectable bit depth of 16 or 24-bit (16-bit with or without dither)
    * Selectable sampling rates of 44.1, 48, or 96 kHz

    Impressive, that's what most digital recorders can do. Then it follows with:
    * On-board MP3 encoding at 128, 192, and 256 kb/s mono or stereo

    A professional device that will do MP3, but only at crappy levels. Most high end gear encodes at 320K at least.

    If you can do without MP3 support, Mackie, Alesis, and others have beautiful 24 track HD recorders that will record in 96K/32bit. Sure, it gets hefty for drive space, and it's 2U. Priced around $2K it's comparable, but offers better quality over more channels. Take your pick, but this little device doesn't seem worth the money.
    • by swb (14022)
      Pro, shmo, I'd love to have a stereo audio MP3 HD recorder, but only if its ipod sized and is suitable for recording live shows.
      • by jred (111898)
        Try the Archos units. I have the Multimedia 20, and have used it to "bootleg" some local shows. I say bootleg because I just sat at the bar & recorded, but I had the bands' permissions.

        The biggest problem I had was the levels being maxed out. The sound was ok using the built-in mics, but I believe you can add external mics. I know you can plug into the board using the line-in (RCA).

        Slighty larger & heavier than the iPod, but feels more sturdy to me.
      • by extra88 (1003)
        How about the Archos Jukebox Recorder 20 [archos.com]? I haven't used one, I just found this when a professor was asking about something to do field recordings (I actually suggested the Multimedia Jukebox for her because she wanted a place to put her digital photos and you can buy a memory card reader for the Multimedia Jukebox). It's not iPod sized but it's still pretty small.

        The specs say this can do up to 160Kbps encoding. I read a user comment somewhere that the built-in mic tends to pick up the hard drive noise bu
    • The cool thing about this is that it offers 2 tracks of 24/96 direct to HD recording. The people who want 24-bit words, the people who want that resolution, are the last people who would store their stuff as MP3. It makes WAVs (or BWFs, to get around the file size limit), which you can then mess with at home.

      Did you miss that it's portable, and tiny, and runs on a camcorder-type rechargable battery pack? That if you need more than 3 hours at a shot it has a 5-18 volt locking DC input? The high-quality onb

  • by binaryDigit (557647) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:35PM (#5914022)
    It's a very expensive product geared towards the professional. What the RIAA would REALLY hate would be an iPod with SPDIF inputs and the ability to connect to other iPods via firewire. You could then connect your cd player directly to your iPod and then transfer directly from iPod to iPod, all without leaving the digital domain and with no lossy compression.
    • It's a very expensive product geared towards the professional. What the RIAA would REALLY hate would be an iPod with SPDIF inputs and the ability to connect to other iPods via firewire. You could then connect your cd player directly to your iPod and then transfer directly from iPod to iPod, all without leaving the digital domain and with no lossy compression.

      The FireWire version of the Nomad Zens allow you to transfer from Zen to Zen with the latest firmware.
  • What, this would make it slightly more easy to bootleg concerts. Why the hell would the RIAA care about that?

    They're worried about faster then real-time exponential distribution (i.e. file sharing to everyone quickly).

    It's not like concerts are hard to bootleg. Whoever made this thing has a wrote this thing has a serious ego problem.
  • Doesn't matter. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by supabeast! (84658) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:37PM (#5914037)
    Wow, cheap recording equipment for the low-budget musician without a G4.

    Unfortunately, it still won't produce the kind of album you get from a multimillion dollar staff of producers and engineers, and those are the guys who really make albums that sell.
    • Re:Doesn't matter. (Score:3, Informative)

      by mcpkaaos (449561)
      Plug this... Presonus Firestation [presonus.com]

      Into your PC running this... Cubase SX [steinberg.net]

      Hey super, you now have the same recording capability as many studios claiming to run ProTools HD (which your million dollar studio is most likely running.) And before you holler about recording quality, lemme tell you that it's 90% engineer, 10% equipment, and I'm being generous to the equipment.

      The cost? Under a grand if you don't buy at Guitar Center. ;) I think I paid around $500 for the Firestation and $340 for Cubase SX.. b
  • Sweeeeeeet! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:38PM (#5914048)
    * 1394 (FireWire 400) port for high-speed data transfer between local disks and computer. CF and internal drive appear as FAT32 volumes
    * Serial port (future expansion)


    screw the firewire! I am gonna transfer that data over the serial port!
    • Yeah baby, bring on the 115200 bps goodness! I'm sure that leaves this so called 'firewire' in the dust. What's that, IEEE-1394 transfers data in excess of 1Gb/s? Err..

  • by WookieOnTheRun (603172) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:38PM (#5914052)
    Ok, there are some problems with both of these units. I've been following their production from the get-go as I work within the audio industry. First off every single thing core sound has made in the past is CRAP. Poorly made, known to occasionally damage audio gear and so on. Look at their sony 7 pin cables. They are horrible. On top of this these units arent ready for their intended purposes. They are supposed to be for live concert audio recording, however at 24/96 or 24/192 neither unit can handle over 2 hours of recording (most live shows run over that). If I want to record in 16/44.1 Ill go back to using my DAT's.
    • You seem to be mistaken about a few things...

      First, the devices are not made by Core Sound, they're made by Sound Devices. Core Sound was only mentioned because of their PDA recorder which was mentioned here recently. And yes, generally their products are crap and most of the time they're just vaporware, never even being released.

      Second, they are not limited to two hours of recording. They are, however, limited to 2 gigabytes for each wav file, but this is a limitation of the format, not of the devic

  • by questionlp (58365) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:40PM (#5914063) Homepage
    that ignore SCMS or any other form of "copy protection" scheme that they have put in place in the consumer version of the products a nightmare for the RIAA? I don't think so... it would be a nightmare if pro-level equipment are mandated to have such restrictions!

    I think the device is a progression from DAT, just like how there are hard-drive modules for DV video cameras as another storage device to store recorded data. Tape is fine, but not if you need to record long sessions or need to be able to work on them using NLE or audio tools without having to do some form of DV tape or DAT tape to file transfer as an interim step.
  • Question (Score:2, Insightful)

    by gazbo (517111)
    Why would the RIAA, representing the biggest labels and by extension artists in the world, care about you recording your hilarious retro-arcade techno with William Shatner samples over the top?

    They wouldn't. The RIAA care about you stealing songs on P2P. Digital recording has been around for a long time. However, there is the question of how you will position the microphones, indeed what types of microphones to have in order to capture the true sound and the room's ambiance. Assuming this is done to a

    • I have and still use 4 track reel to reel, You see I am a Classical Guitarist and find that DAT and ADAT equipment suck! I use a Mackie 1202 to mix down and find that the results with real hall sound and mics is far more musical. This new tech seems to come a little closer to high grade portable use for acoustic musicians, who use their ears and not gizmos or brain dead sound card software to record music. As for mic placement most recording engineers do not have a clue about how to mic classical guitar, so
    • Why would the RIAA, representing the biggest labels and by extension artists in the world, care about you recording your hilarious retro-arcade techno with William Shatner samples over the top?

      Actually, it's the MPAA you have to worry about because of the William Shatner samples.

  • by jokell82 (536447) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:46PM (#5914106) Homepage
    This device looks so good that the RIAA might try to make it illegal

    This is one of the dumbest statements I've read all day. Why would the RIAA give a rats ass about this device? It offers nothing more than PC's can already do. On top of this, it is not a consumer device, so the chance of Joe Blow getting his hands on one (or even figuring out where to buy one) are slim.

    This device is meant for location recording. It'll work great for those of us that record live audio, as we'll no longer have to a) carry around laptops or b) spend time converting from formats like DAT. Some people are a little weary of it, however, due to the fact that no one has heard the preamp it uses (but most assume that it's the same as the MP2).

    Oh, and if you want to check out the official website and not a vendor's site, here [sounddevices.com] it is.

    • been off planet? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by nyet (19118) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @07:49PM (#5915405) Homepage
      I guess you, like 100s of other misguided /. devils advocates missed the VCR and DAT flaps, and the resulting Macrovision idiocy and DAT taxes.

      Oh, and did we already mention the RIAA's attempts to legislate MANDATORY DRM into any device capable of recording sound digitally?
  • I'm no expert on audio, but I've always been interested in portable audio recording. $2000/$4000 seems kind of steep to me. What advantages does a device like this have over a much cheaper minidisc recorder with a good microphone? Anyone think its worth the money? Or are their other alternatives, like a laptop with a good sound card or something?
    • The reason why is that you cannot purchase, for love or money, a minidisc recorder that will allow you to transfer digital data from the recorder to a computer. Sony has made special sure of this and there are a hell of a lot of pissed-off minidisc owners over it. Since all new minidisc recorders come with USB ports, it would be trivial to add this capatability in, but Sony has kept it off. This makes a minidisc recorder useless to me and many, many other people, particularly musicians.
    • by zakezuke (229119) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @05:46PM (#5914618)
      Laptop with a good soundcard, you do have a valid point to a degree. As long as your laptop supported 24bit 96kHZ recording, and was fully equiped to handle mike and line level inputs.. then yea. But most laptops are only released with support for 16bit 48kHz, just slightly above CD. I'm not aware of any PCMCIA cards that offer this fuctionality but you, but it wouldn't be far fetched for this to exist.

      Mini disc, well you don't really have a valid point on. I don't remember the exact size of mini-disk, but I believe it's about 120megs per disk highly compressed. Doesn't really compare. Mini-disk isn't really adquate for something you'd wish to publish.

      The advantage of this unit to you for example would be the fact that records at twice the sampling rate of CD, higher bitrate, is compatable with the prefered connections used in recording rather then consumer grade solutions like the mini disk.

      I don't mean to flame you at all, you are asking a very logical question. But imagine if you were an audio professional, who considered buying a laptop for portable recording. This would run you a good chunk of change for software and the hardware, $1000-$2000 would be reasonable for such a device that records at CD-quality. Then imagine if someone offered you a digital recording device, something that doesn't need a computer to operate, but has the ability to download quickly and be manipluated for publishing. Assuming your application is exclusivly recording sound, the cost for the stereo unit is comparable to what you'd spend on a kick ass laptop.

      Clearly you are happy with mini-disk... lots of people are. It's a great consumer grade product which provides (though some would argue) quality superior to cassette what is termed, *near CD quality*. I'm not knocking them at all, far from it. Mini-disc has done wonders to giving home users the ability make pretty brilient recordings. However when you start maniplulating sounds, you really don't want something that is compressed. A few transformations on it, and it will sound like crap. Your master recordings these days you want atleast uncompressed CD quality.

      Is $2000 spendy? Well, compair to a Sony portable dat recorder fetching somewhere along the lines of $800. It's going to offer 16bit up to 48kHZ recording ability, which is most adquate for audio mastering, very portable, going to need some extras to plug into a mixing board, but will not provide 20gigs of storage nor firewire for quick transfer to a system, nor will it provide 24bit 96kHz sound quality.

      But if you one to say mini-disc suits your needs, then great. To be honest, I have a hard time determining the diffrence between *some* mini-disk recordings and CDs. Mini-disk is cool. It's not CD quality, but most people don't notice. It just doesn't nessicarly meet the minium requirements for publishing a CD on a professional level, which just takes up more space then a mini-disk can hold. Dat, Adat, and digital recording is much prefered.

      • With a laptop, Mbox (small enough to be quite portable), good mics, and ProTools LE, you have an affordable, portable, professional recording solution. Professional as in, pros use exactly this setup to do recording, editing, and mixing when on the road.

        Buy an iBook, or G4 PowerBook, and the above Digidesign hardware and software. That's what real pros do.

        See Digidesign's website [digidesign.com].
        • I'm not going to discount the value of such a solution. On the contrary, it's quite nice. But I can see some advantages to a dedicated recording device like the one offered here for $2000.00.

          1. Stability... while i'm not personaly familar with the product, it doesn't apear to operate via a microsoft, apple, nor linux / bsd operating system. No worries about your sys admin setting it up correctly.

          2. Simple user interface. From the user's perspective, it's just a recorder, sorta like using a portable
    • You aren't really making an apples-to-apples comparison. The 722 has two XLR connectors, allowing balanced connection to microphones, and can also provide phantom power. To get an MD unit with this capability, you have to look at something like the HHb PortaDisc [oade.com], which sells for about $1350. Otherwise you'd want to get an outboard mic preamp for your mics, and provide it with power, and then it's no longer a one-box solution.

      So, now the question is what do you get for that last $500? The 722 has 24bit/96k

  • Why MP3? (Score:3, Informative)

    by kasperd (592156) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:48PM (#5914130) Homepage Journal
    I prefer OGG, my experience with OGG in comparision with MP3 is:
    • Faster compression
    • Smaller files
    • Better sound quality
    • Free technology
    So what good reasons remain for using MP3? (Except from the tons of pirat MP3s you can download from the net.)
    • What is OGG? Or are you referring to Ogg [vorbis.com]?
    • Re:Why MP3? (Score:3, Informative)

      by BitterOak (537666)
      So what good reasons remain for using MP3? (Except from the tons of pirat MP3s you can download from the net.)

      Err, well, how about the fact that I have yet to see a portable or car CD player that plays a CD-ROM full of Ogg-vorbis files? When I'm at home, I can listen to my orignal CDs. There's no need for compression. When I'm on the road, I don't like to take my thousand or so CDs with me. But I need something to play the music on. So far, the only devices I know of that will play Ogg Vorbis files a

  • Nice unit.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by zakezuke (229119) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:55PM (#5914192)
    Much more in the way of jacks then for example the sony walkman dat recorder that i've experenced in the past. Not nearly so portable, and likely not nearly so quiet, but hey, looks like the perfect thing to jack into a mixing board.

    It's nice to see someone designing goods that are ment to be modular. Part of the reason 4mm dat was attractive to me back in the 20th century was the fact that it was also a computer media standard and one could, in theory, pop it in a system for digital editing. Alas because of issues with the RIAA, it was a pain in the butt to get the drives though successfully upgraded the rom on a old HP unit and got something useful.

    This unit on the other hand based on what I read is pretty much geared for fast transfer to a system.

    I question sometimes the motive behind the RIAA getting on the case on devices who's sole purpose and design are for people who want the ability to master origional materal, rather then music pirates who use the CD. When I see this, I say, "wow, plug into a mixing board and get great recordings of live shows" something that you typicaly need the band's authoration for (well, record label and venue, but let the band fight out that aspect), somehow I suspect that it would be percieved as a great evil. Yea, the great evil the fact that professional grade recording equipment, the type you'd use to master with, is becoming lower in price and more practical for bands to actually own them selves, creating the danger of no longer needing to be signed with labels to get material out.

  • (while I get really annoyed with the thieves who justify downloading music, simply because nobody's sticking their sorry asses in jail yet, now and then I do feel a compulsion to whack some sense into the RIAA. In that spirit...)

    Dear Senator Fastpocket,

    We at Amalgamated Motors are deeply concerned. The automobile industry is in dire condition, and immediate action is required.

    Our sales have been nearly flat since 2001. While some apologists for lawbreakers might blame trivial things like a global econom
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The Creative Nomad III costs = $299, can record 16/48 wav for hours on its 20gb drive and also supports mp3-encoded recording at various rates, sounds decent enough for mp3. Barring electrically noisy environments, its unbalanced input circuit is *very* quiet for consumer gear...running on battery with a battery-powered mic preamp, its S/N is low enough not to matter to anyone but a purist. If you want quick and cheap portable digital record and you don't have to run lots of wire between your mic and the
  • ADAT recorders have 8 channels of storage per unit. Multiple units can be ganged together to create very wide multi-track recorders. This device, clever as it is, only records two tracks. This makes it good for making demos and such, but not suitable for professional studio work intended for commercial release.

    The suits will probably get their knickers in a twist if it doesn't support SCMS though.

    It will make for some killer audience and board tapes though. Too bad this didn't exist back when I was ma
  • Nice (Score:3, Insightful)

    by j_kenpo (571930) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @05:41PM (#5914588)
    Actually a very nice device, but it lacks the ability to do SMPTE time code output (for syncronization with external devices such as the Pangolin Quadmod series laser display systems), but then again, you can sacrifice an audio channel and use an external device such as an Aquilla time code unit for this. And for a brand new device, being much cheaper than the ADATs were when they came out, this seems like a very good alternative to the bulkier rack mount solutions such as the TASCAM 24/24.
  • My Jukebox 3 can do .wav recordings at up to 48khz either through a mic or an optical line-in. It also does onboard mp3 encoding at up to 320kbs. (Note that the Zen doesn't have these capabilities, kust the NJB3)

    Even with the lowly 20GB model, I've got more than enough overhead to record several nights' shows with no compression. All this for under $300 USD.
  • DAT OR ADAT (Score:3, Informative)

    by locarecords.com (601843) <david&locarecords,com> on Friday May 09, 2003 @06:09AM (#5917431) Homepage Journal
    Note that DAT and ADAT are completely different technologies, one is a mastering stereo mix and the other a professional quality 8-track recorder.

    This looks like a challenge to the DAT but to keep the quality up and remain pro it will always remain out of the price range of consumers. When you can walk around with an iPod that has all the tracks and convenience why would you bother with a pro bit of kit that is designed for recording live sounds (and has the outputs to support it).

    There are already lots of DAT's that allow you to disable all digital copying due to the needs of professional studios but you don't see anyone on the train with one do you?

    The reality is consumer and pro equipment has different needs and different functions and very rarely is there a crossover. I don't think the RIAA will be getting too worried providing this remains a pro choice...

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