Home-Grown TiVo Stories? 480
PolyDwarf writes "I'm in the process of figuring out how I'm going to build a homegrown TiVo machine (i.e. a computer sitting next to or in my home electronics stack).
My question for is "What's worked best for you?" Most solutions I've researched are great if you have regular cable. However, satellite systems and digital cable boxes seem to present a special challenge, in that the software on the PC needs to know about an IR connector that is then hooked up to the front of the digital cable/satellite box.
Who has done a solution like what I'm researching? What cases/processors/memory/TV Card/IR transceiver/OS/software/etc worked out for you? Did the end result justify the pain and hassle?"
Don't know how many times I'm going to post this.. (Score:2, Interesting)
G4 500
200 GB internal storage
EyeTV TV tuner (1 coax in and 1 RCA video/audio in)
RCA video in/out
2 S-video out
1 S-video in
1 RCA audio in
1 RCA audio out
1 1/8" stereo miniplug in
1 1/8" stereo miniplug out
SCSI
USB
FireWire
serial x 2
dual ethernet
DVD-RW (Pioneer 104)
Mac OS X Jaguar
Keyspan Remote
drives a 14" VGA and 27" TV
VCD DivX MPEG-4 etc. support
online scheduling w/ TitanTV
Full Internet Access
screen resolution on the TV up to 1024x768
and much much more
sound yummy? Its killer, and I'm putting together a web page w/ all the pics from the assembly and the final product.
Don't worry slashdotters, you'll get a peek at this beauty soon.
Re:What works best? A REAL TiVo, ya cheap bastard! (Score:3, Interesting)
MythTV is great (Score:5, Interesting)
Shuttle SK41G case+MB+PSU - $250
120GB Maxtor Fluid Dynamic Bearings 5400RPM HD - $130
WinTV dbx model 401 card - $100
Athlon 1800+ (I did not need to get this fast a processor, but I wanted speed left over for other things too) - $60
512MB DDR ram: $70
New remote control: $20
Total: $630
It works great, does ff/rew/pause of live TV, downloads TV listings off free websites, lets you record all showings of a show, has a webserver builtin so you can set recordings remotely, etcetc.
It also looks pretty and works great with a remote control so you really can use it like a set top box.
There are even optional modules for showing the weather, playing MP3s, and running various emulators/games.
It also supports multiple frontends and backends, so you can make an ultimate setup with 10 tuner cards and 20 TVs all connected to the same video storage if you're so inclined.
Cable. (Score:3, Interesting)
Why?
All but 4 (well, 4.5 counting ch5) channels are sent through cable for me. Admittedly, those channels do have the better programming on, but it would be somewhat lame not being able to record cable channels.
For instance, I have digital cable (ntl). All the decoding is done in the cable box and shoved through to channel 7 on the tv. This means you can only record from one pre determined cable channel. Unless you somehow set up lirc to send a 'channel change' ir command to the cable box every time it wants to change cable channel. I've thought about this, but it would be tricky and probably unreliable.
The question really is: can I justify building a PVR for just 4 channels?
Avoiding quality degradation (Score:1, Interesting)
My understanding is the Dish Network broadcasts in MPEG-2 format, and the receiver decodes this. If this is the case, then any solution which doesn't intercept the signal before its decoded with result in a degraded output. Tivo claims to work with Dish Network but so far I've received no response to an inquiry regarding whether or not they recompress the video. I'm assuming they do... and if so, any setup which duplicates Tivo will also suffer degradation.
So is there any way to get around this problem? Dish Network doesn't really provide any info. I would get one of their PVRs if I knew how to copy their internal hard drives onto my computer and be able to archive each show as an mpeg2 file without any recompression.
Re:What works best? A REAL TiVo, ya cheap bastard! (Score:1, Interesting)
Says you. I've done it on my G4, with an ethernetted TiVo. It takes some time, because I like to edit out the commercials and that adds a few steps-- but I do have a DVD of a couple commercial-free Simpsons episodes that was created when I worked out the process. [slashdot.org]
Right now I'm trying to learn some of the development gewgaws on OS X so I can build GUI-based app to do retrieval and conversion to MPEG-2 parts of the process with a few clicks.
~Philly
Any cheap DVB capture cards? (Score:2, Interesting)
That's what's holding me back from going mythtv -- I am on ExpressVu and want to be able to save the MPEG stream directly to HDD or at with a minimum of screwing around.
There are some DVB PCI cards from Germany (ExpressVu is standard DVB, throw in your access card and you're done) but they're on the order of $400!! I've been through the schematics of my old 2700-series receiver and while I can tap off the digital audio, the unencrypted MPEG video stream seems to never leave the custom decrypt/decode chip. :-(
I suppose I could use RCA out and an IR mouse to change channels, but I am really looking for something I can put all in one box and, as I said earlier, not screw around.
I'm sure a bunch of others said it... (Score:3, Interesting)
Homebrew: All parts (sff case, mb, memory, cpu, tv card, large hdd, etc. using MythTV) = ~$650
+: Yours to do with whatever you please, using actively maintained popular open free software, easily hardware upgradable, fun to play around with, much more software functionality (MythMusic, emulator front end, weather modules, etc.)
-: Hardware failure is your problem, TV software not quite up to par, more expensive, not quite as slick looking (without looking real hard for a decent case), maintainers can stop working whenever they get the urge, good luck getting digital/satellite TV working well with a cheapo TV card
Tivo + Lifetime subscription = ~$600 (add a larger hdd for more money)
+: Company paying people to maintain software and accurate listings, nice to look at, full featured and completely functional, hacker friendly, warranty makes getting a replacement unit easier, software head and shoulders above competition (IMHO YMMV blah blah - I'm sure other posts outline such functionality), it's a device that doesn't care if the power gets yanked on it, is built to support all sorts of television (digital cable, satellite, coax, whatever)
-: Warranty voided if you open it up, no control over software or updates, company controls any and all software, if Tivo goes out of business listings and software are at their mercy (although there's rumors of a Plan B if that should happen), only does the TV thing (unless you feel like paying for the lackluster Home Media option).
Simply put:
Like tinkering? Have a lot of time and money to burn? Roll your own. Otherwise, there's an excellent effortless pvr already available for the same cost. Worst case scenario, buy a Tivo and keep the receipt (choose monthly sub instead of lifetime). Give it a test run. Don't like it? Return it and make a better one.
The real question is: Has anyone started trying to hack together drivers for the Tivo hardware so you can use their box but your own software?
Storage, quality, and ease of use. (Score:4, Interesting)
However, I get much better quality making the original dub using a digital recording (well, I've had a few times where it's gone odd, but typically it's a much higher quality, and I don't end up introducing macrovision in there 'till the final run to tape). It's easier to edit out the commercials once, if I'm going to be making multiple copies to tape, or even just changing the playback order.
Oh..and let's not forget storage... I'm recording at about 1G/hr... so with 2x120G drives in my system, I don't have to worry about changing tapes every few hours. [and actually, every show, as when I used to send everything straight to VHS, I tried to keep shows in order on each tape, so some nights, I'd be switching tapes every hour or 30 minutes, and having to get the next one queued up and wait for my VCR to to its recording calibration test in just a minute or so.
Now, I can collect up a few shows, and when I want to dump to tape, I just prep a job to run overnight, or do it right before I leave for work....
hmmm...that reminds me...I was supposed to dub a new copy of Invader Zim for a friend who wore our her tape. (she has a TiVo, but well, she doesn't have enough space on it to keep all of her Zim)
IR LED.... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:just buy a damn tivo (Score:5, Interesting)
To the original poster: Is it really worth it to build your own system if you reside within the TiVo market? Have you considered things like: hardware costs (a fast processor, video capture board, lots of RAM, motherboard, case), software (time to get the kernel + driver working, time to cobble together a UI), and other intangibles (getting a remote to work, fan noise, getting timely scheduling information)?
Why bother? Plenty of great reasons (Score:2, Interesting)
1) It's likely that you can get some of the features you want more quickly by using something based on open source. If it doesn't have what you want, you can just add it!
2) The idea of having the people that produce or distribute the content having any control over how it's watched really annoys me. It's my TV, and I'll watch it the way I want. Does this happen? You bet: DirecTV controls the features that get added to your TiVo at home.
3) You can archive everything. Hard disk space is really cheap. It's pretty easy to imagine a huge collection of movies that you just skim from your feed. Sure, you can hook a PVR up to a recordable DVD, but you really want this to be built automagically.
4) Nobody's monitoring what you watch. Sure, TiVo has a nice privacy policy, but the fact that such info is even collected scares me.
Re:Cutting out commercials? (Score:4, Interesting)
As I understand it, most of the programs out there use blank monitoring. Before and after a section of the program, there will be blank space of two or three frames that programs that try to remove commercials key on.
The problem is that unless one of these frames happens to concide with a keyframe in the mpeg stream, they are extreamly hard to find in that stream. As a result it is sometimes disasterously ineffective. It may very nicely catch the begining of the commercial block, but miss the end, and start the stream at the begining of the next commercial block.
I seem to recall a few years ago that in Japan, they had a work around on some VCRs that would monitor the audio stream. Since most commercials (at the time) were recorded in mono, and programs were in stereo, the VCRs would automatically pause when the audio stream went to mono, and resume when it went back to stereo.
The only thing that I am aware of that would make sense to try similar to that would be to monitor close captioning, as most locally produced commercials that I have seen do not have captions. It also seems to be hit or miss for nationally produced commercials.
Good luck.
-Rusty
not worth it (Score:3, Interesting)
On the one hand, it was kind of fun getting set up.
On the other hand, it took a hell of a lot of time, the video quality was substandard, and it was a pain in the ass to set the programming. I couldn't do good compression in realtime, so I had to save in crappy MJPEG compression and then later recompress in batches. Even with a 80GB scratch drive in it, the thing was always battling for more space due to the large initial files.
Did I mention that 2 or 3 different times, kernel upgrades broke my TV card?
I eventually dismantled the system. I'm considering buying a real Tivo soon, but even if I don't, I will not be making another homebrew one. It just isn't worth the time and effort. The V1 Tivos can be configured so you can pull the video right off via ethernet, and people are working on that functionality for the V2 ones. And if you care about playing DivX and stuff like that, mod an XBox. You can play pretty much anything on them, with a lot less effort.
Re:just buy a damn tivo (Score:4, Interesting)
If Tivo does go out of business, I can continue using my Tivo as a "dumb" PVR. I just won't have the guide or the features it enabled.
Tivo does remember what it's recorded - to a point. If the same episode (description, etc.) shows up within a certain amount of time, Tivo won't re-record it. You can also tell Tivo not to record reruns. Unfortunatly this relies on the guide data being accurate - something that many of the channels don't do (Comedy Central is particularly bad with The Daily Show, for instance.)
Yes, the multiple people & 1 Tivo problem comes up a lot. Still, what product is perfect? Both Tivo and users have come up with workarounds while Tivo tries to figure out how to solve this.
You can get your Tivo to use your network connection instead. In fact, Tivo prefers this as it's cheaper for them than having your unit call in everyday.
For adding storage, it took me an hour - most of which was spent waiting for the disk copy to finish mirroring the Tivo software from the small 30GB drive, to the larger 60GB drive I bought. Later, I bought a 100GB drive, formatted it, stuck into the Tivo, and the Tivo did the rest. Ooh, that was "hard." Yes, you do have to open the case, and you will violate your warranty doing this, but I fail to see how this is "hard" - especially among a group of folks who can probably assemble PCs while blindfolded and asleep.
Re:Buy a Tivo (Score:2, Interesting)
TiVo is a "nice" company. They've let customers hack their machines without too much complaint.
Your "open" utopia is nonsensical - if they release the source then they lose business. Why buy their hardware/brand? They are a company, and outside the world of dirty, bitter "source wants to be free!!!!" ners, companies try to make money.
People out there - don't listen to this disgruntled nerd. Buy a TiVo. Keep them afloat - they have a good product (especially the DirecTV version). And he's lying his ass off about the "1 hour" comment.
Re:Buy a Tivo (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:just buy a damn tivo (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't underestimate the importance of this paragraph. It's one thing to have your desktop machine, which you futz around with constantly go on the fritz, but when you've had a really long shitty day and just wanna sit down and veg in front of a home-made Futurama marathon, the last thing you want is a blank screen with no clue what's going on.
Dear God, Just answer the question (Score:1, Interesting)
1) TiVo is not a DVD Player
2) TiVo is not an MP3 Player (from disk)
3) TiVo can not play DivX movies (from disk)
4) TiVo is not an Ogg Player (from disk)
Lets add the price of TiVo, with a DVD player that is quality (can play the DivX movies as well) Plus the 1year subscription cost to TiVo's service. Hmm.. It might still be cheaper to buy the DVD player and TiVo, but then thats all you have. You cant go and play new media types that pop up. Additionally you can have your extra computer do some extra number crunching (digital conversion, seti, you name it) in the free time.
Here is what I built, and its working great for me:
AMD 2200+ Athlon chip
256 Megs DDR
ATI Radeon AIW 7500.
Windows 2K.
I tried running this under Windows XP, but if I moved the mouse during captuer I lost frames (windows XP was not working for me). Windows 2K works great with ATI's software. I'm able to capture sVCD Quality directly with ATI's newest Media Center (Note, the Media Center that came with the product, 7.5, blows, must upgrade).
I went Windows 2K only because the Capture drivers arent there for Linux yet, only view.
I can also do TV-On Demand (Pause Live tv, rewind, etc).
Re:HDTV (Score:1, Interesting)
FOX sends out their signals in what's called EDTV(Enhanced Definition TV) or 480p where real HDTV feeds are at either 720p or 1080i.
ABC is the only station currently broadcasting at 720p, and FOX they just lie.