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Displays

LCD Display/Image Capture Device 225

Posted by michael from the telescreen dept.
Jon writes "Remember jokes about clueless newbies trying to fax documents by holding them up to the monitor? Perhaps they were just ahead of their time. Toshiba has developed a combined LCD/optical sensor, according to EETimes. It isn't monitor sized yet, but in a few years, perhaps?"
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LCD Display/Image Capture Device More

LCD Display/Image Capture Device

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  • 1984 (Score:4, Funny)

    by CrosbieSmith ( 550211 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:16PM (#5702485)
    Aaarrgh! My screen is watching me!
    • If this does become technically feasible and relatively inexpensive, who wants to make a bet on the display that's commonly hooked up to next generation of office desktop machines?
      Certain companies already monitor their employees to what I believe is an obsessive extent, and the ability to take a "scan" of what's in front of the monitor every X minutes is something I can see being used and abused by the "w3 0wnz j00" philosophy that a lot of businesses have with respect to their employees. Worse yet, look a
      • Just get a nice 19" diagonal picture of yourself to put up while you are out smoking.
      • Um, how hard is it to build a monitor with a built-in webcam, or even to affix one to existing monitors? Or are you trying to say that companies would only do this if they could somehow do it without anyone knowing for sure there was a camera in or on the monitor? Maybe a fixed lens that was not integral to the screen itself would be too easy to cover up with a post-it note. But what good does it do to have a live image of someone sitting at a monitor? Have you ever watched a webcam? It's incredibly dull an

      • the ability to take a "scan" of what's in front of the monitor every X minutes is something I can see being used and abused by the "w3 0wnz j00" philosophy that a lot of businesses have with respect to their employees

        I doubt it... a picture of an employee sitting in front of their PC won't tell them anything (how will they know if employee is doing "real work", or looking at pr0n?)

        Keystroke loggers & firewalls are better for watching what employees are really doing, and these have been around for yea

        • a picture of an employee sitting in front of their PC won't tell them anything (how will they know if employee is doing "real work", or looking at pr0n?)

          They'll be able to see it in the reflection in your glasses! :-D

      • I have no doubt whatsoever that as soon as this becomes feasible in production, it will go into production and get heavily marketed. What makes this so awful is, once this exists, you'll never know whether your screen can do this or not (unless, that is, you're sniffing your network connection to see if any traffic is being sent). You'll always be wondering whether anyone is watching you.

        So much for surfing pr0n, with one hand on the mouse... Hehehehe.

        On the other hand, you could get around this with a ch

    • Re:1984 (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Judg3 ( 88435 ) <jeremy@pa[ ]ck.com ['vle' in gap]> on Thursday April 10, 2003 @01:50PM (#5703454) Homepage Journal
      Ah, you mean this chapter. And indeed, it's almost true now:

      "Behind Winston's back the voice from the telescreen was still babbling away
      about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year Plan. The
      telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston
      made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover,
      so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque
      commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of
      knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on
      what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was
      guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But
      at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to
      live--did live, from habit that became instinct--in the assumption that every
      sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement
      scrutinized."

  • In Soviet Russia... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:17PM (#5702496) Homepage Journal
    OK, you can start posting the variants of "In Soviet Russia, the monitor watch you!" now...

  • "LCD Display" (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Because I like to complain...

    "LCD Display" is horribly redundant. As this post will be modded.

    But the tech itself is cool!

  • "Uh, I think so Brain, but monitors as webcams? That's a silly idea."

    Besides how will I be able to make fun of friends when they tell me they met this really hot supermodel online...

    I mean, honesty on the Internet? Yeah, right.

  • So much for privacy (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wakeboard ( 556264 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:18PM (#5702507)
    That opens up an interesting question, can some one exploite this to see what you are doing at your desk?

    ie picking your nose =]

  • Oh dear lord (Score:4, Funny)

    by mao che minh ( 611166 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:20PM (#5702526) Journal
    We will go from having trolls posting images of the goatse guy, to posting images of "themselves", so to speak.

    Ok, I'll just come out and say it: ball sack mashed against the screen = a shockingly revolting image to be sent around the world.

    • Ok, I'll just come out and say it: ball sack mashed against the screen = a shockingly revolting image to be sent around the world.

      Actually, I believe you will find there are at least three high-traffic porn sites that provide just this sort of image.

      For every kink, theres a lotta kooks, paying a bunch of monthly fees!

      maeryk

  • I just want (Score:5, Interesting)

    by scorp1us ( 235526 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:21PM (#5702543) Journal
    To be able to position a webcam from computer A in front of a monitor from computer B, and reverse it. So each camera is looking at each other's monitor.

    Then I want to display crap on the screen which then gets interpreted as data (Imagine a 4x4 checkerboard, black=0, white=1, so each screen displays 16 bits at a time)

    Now use this to bridge two networks.

    Questions: How many cells can be fit on a monitor?
    How fast can you change/read the data?
    Ideally if your webcam is 320x200, you could get 64kbits per flash. If you can use 4 colors instead of two, you're upto ISDN speeds...
    • Yeah, cos 100mbit ethernet's just too...errr....expensive...no wait....errr....slow....no hang on I'll get it....too easy? Hmmm.
    • I am sorry. But this is simply insane. What on earth are you talking about?

      • Re:I just want (Score:3, Interesting)

        by scorp1us ( 235526 )
        Well at the last place I worked, I worked for R&D, and we were always at odds with IT. They wouldn't let us put this one computer on the network because it was leased, and not under our configuration control. But it was in the same room as a computer that was. They even faced each other... and then my idea was born. You can even fan-out to multiple networks or fan-in. I think it'd be damn cool to walkinto a room full of flashing monitors.

        It could wind up looking like the screens in the matrix, where yo
    • Why would you want to do this?

      I don't mean why would you want a wireless bridge between two network segments. I mean, why would you want to implement such a bridge with dedicated webcams and video displays instead of, say, infrared LEDs.
    • First, you've got to consider the limiting factor, likely how quickly your webcam can update. Then, you'd have to focus it so that it's only picking up the monitor, and not joe blow walking nearby. Then, you've got to worry about snapping a picture during the middle of the monitor's screen refresh (unless you're using an LCD panel, guess the one would be faster, while the other wouldn't have refresh issues).

      But, even better, this is full-duplex operation, so roughly double your speed.

      Finally, I think yo
  • A new variant of the "Hi!, you have been e-mooned" chain letter will be born...
    (nothing stopped people from using the photocopier at work, this will just be another amuzement toy)
    Ahh!, the memmories...

  • No sale (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mattygfunk1 ( 596840 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:22PM (#5702555)
    This is solving a problem that has already been solved.

    Faxes around my office are usually printed computer documents that perhaps have a hand written signature. This fits beautifully into the sending slot. Why would anyone want to stand there holding the thing still while they press a button / click a mouse. No way.

    __ cheap web site hosting [cheap-web-...ing.com.au]

  • In Soviet Russia, Monitor Watches You!

    (I know, I know...but it's true [now] )
  • Cue posting to that site that gives you the picture of the chimp, saying it has been taken through your monitor...... now!

    i think it can be found through bored.com ;)
  • Then, I can install VNC, hold a mirror up to the screen, and /. my machine!!!! :)
    • Actually, any monitor that has this should include a "Mirror" button!

      Simply press the button and each camera cell is directly linked to its nearby display cell.

  • LCD + Image capture + Speaker (Score:3, Funny)

    by Vodak ( 119225 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:25PM (#5702579)
    combine this story with this prior slashdot story(http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/31/ 1453223&mode=thread&tid=196&tid=137) about turning the monitor into a speaker and you have one hell of a trim kick ass system.
  • This has great applications for two way interactive pr0n, until the screen gets all sticky, and gross that is..

  • in case of /. (Score:1, Redundant)

    by k3v0 ( 592611 )
    LCD captures images by the pixel By Yoshiko Hara EE Times April 4, 2003 (10:04 a.m. EST) Recent Articles Systems and Software News Mobile missiles back on drawing board, U.S. general says Nokia to detail e-mail security scheme at conference New group aims to secure PCs, PDAs, cell phones Failed takeover could mean end for Germany's Grundig India builds Tflops computing cluster Windows opens view to 64-way Itanium systems DuPont forges 'Olight' brand for emerging OLEDs Japan promotes robo
  • +1 point for cyber sex hobbyists (If thats what you call em)
    -2 points for privacy (How long will it be before we have spyware in our monitors)

  • Imagine the spam... (Score:5, Funny)

    by scorp1us ( 235526 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:28PM (#5702603) Journal
    Now spammers can see if you're really fat or not. I can also show them my schlong, so they won't 1) tell me how to make it longer and 2) tell me how I can increase my breast size.

  • Sounds like the screens in "1984" doesn't it?

    A nice side effect of this would be built-in touchscreens on everything. More like pointscreens, you won't even have to contact the surface.

    And kids can open up Paintbrush and make Hand Turkeys!
    • Hell yes 1984, exactly what I was thinking.

      Fortunately I'm guessing the focal range isn't very good (yet).

      I sure hope you're using a SECURE OPERATING SYSTEM with these! Big Brother, or maybe just another script kiddie is watching!

      Immaging how embarrassed you'd be if those #hotteens knew you really were a 38 yo sysadmin from Cleveland, or if the camgirls could look back.
  • Eventually, this might lead to a better, standalone implementation of that "invisibile raincoat" [slashdot.org] thing that's been hyped over the last couple of months.
  • Easier video conferencing or a tool for the governement (i.e. Big Brother). Or maybe they'll create special TV's just for the neilson families or worse they'll end up like the TV's in Max Headroom - always on sending realtime feedback to the networks about viewers.

    Then again with no lense the viewing distance is going to be quite short.
    • Easier video conferencing or a tool for the governement (i.e. Big Brother). Or maybe they'll create special TV's just for the neilson families or worse they'll end up like the TV's in Max Headroom - always on sending realtime feedback to the networks about viewers.

      Uhh.. Tivo, Replay-TV, On-Demand TV, most digital cable boxes.. its already happening.

      Maeryk

  • Another example why... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StandardCell ( 589682 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:33PM (#5702655)
    ...technology for its own sake is a useless technology. Is it any wonder why the high-tech industry has been decimated lately?

    • ...technology for its own sake is a useless technology.
      Please do not generalize. Yes we did have a story on Concorde today, but the idea is not true in general. Remember walkman? It came out when sony decided to put headphones on their utlra-small players.They were really not thinking of the joggers then.They had a limited market target, but it made real big.Similarly CDs were supposed to store music, but then after about 2 years made it into the computer market.
      Technology for its own sake is sometimes
    • Who's to say this technology is useless?

      First of all, I'm not saying there isn't a lot of useless technology. There is. I've seen it. I've even developed some useless technology myself.

      At this point it's probably too expensive to justify putting into every PDA and LAPTOP as an integrated scanner for people who don't want to carry scanners around.

      Who's to say it won't be cheap enough to produce in 5-10 years? It may make Toshiba a lot of money as an integrated LCD scanner technology as it could add
      • It would be relatively easy to integrate an existing image sensor into the bottom of a laptop with a slim feeder.

        Of course, OLED and other display technologies will likely make LCD screens obsolete due to their durability and ease of replacablitity in 5-10 years. The difference with that technology is that the research was directed towards a goal with clear benefits versus existing technology. I should know, since it's the thing I'm most paranoid with in a laptop. Not to mention that LCDs are major c

  • Hmph! (Score:3, Funny)

    by MoeMoe ( 659154 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:34PM (#5702663)
    In reality, this is just a way for computer monitors to get back at us for staring at them constantly for 16 hours a day...
  • It will now be possible to look directly at the person you are talking to, not up at a camera mounted above the screen. The one problem is that it will be harder to 'cover' the lens for peace of mind if you want privacy. Something that is easy with a regular camera lens by simply putting finger or lens cap over it.
    -----

  • Finally! (Score:5, Funny)

    by dfiguero ( 324827 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:38PM (#5702696)
    No more cracking the photocopier glass to get a butt shot ;)

  • Good ideas w/ good intentions = Patriot Act LCD (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adzoox ( 615327 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:41PM (#5702727) Journal
    Good ideas w/ good intentions = Patriot Act LCD

    The Patriot Act had good intentions but has the effect of erasing a lot our rights.

    Think of how a technology like this could be pushed by the insurance and government law enforcement agencies in the future.

    Insurance companies could require that all new car windsheilds and rear view mirrors, all TVs, all laptops have this "camera LCD" installed. Then if we also have cars, houses, etc ... that have networks required for software as Oracle CEO Larry Ellison sees it, I suppose the "device" (wisndshield, TV, laptop) once reported stolen would email a picture of the theif to the police and the owner. What a boom to forensics! But what a total erasing of privacy.

    Then I suppose this could be hacked and teens could REALLY get REAL live webcams of "certain activities" from TVs in bedrooms. Hotels would monitor sleeping activities. Insurance companies monitor driving habits. (already tried with GPS in Alamo rental cars) Are you using that cell phone without a hands free?

    Are you smoking and not telling the insurance company?

    Truely 1984 wasn't satire!

    • Huh. You'd think that this all would have happened with the rise of cheap microcameras. Does your insurance company require you put an X10 camera in your vehicle to take snapshots of potential theives? Does Big Larr' require you to have a webcam connected to your Oracle server? There are thousands of cameras connected to computers--barring Black Helicopter Conspiracy Theories, is there -any- evidence that kiddies are hacking into them en masse?

      All this new product would provide is the fusion of a camer

  • The true story. (Score:2, Funny)

    by ianjk ( 604032 )
    One of those people who was made fun of on the first day @ the job for holding the paper to the monitor and hitting 'send', actually thought: 'hey I should make that work, just to spite those tech assholes that made fun of me.'

  • Jokes? (Score:3, Funny)

    by pete-classic ( 75983 ) <hutnick@gmail.com> on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:45PM (#5702767) Homepage Journal
    I guess Michael has never done tech support. They aren't just jokes.

    A buddy of mine took the following call (from memory):

    T: Thank you for calling Dell, this is [name deleted], may I have your service tag number, please?
    C: . . .?
    T: The service tag is a six character, alphanumeric code printed on a white, bar-coded sticker on the back of your computer.
    C: . . .?
    T: It is on the back of the box that everything plugs into. Not the monitor.
    C: [Service tag deleted.]
    T: How can I help you?
    C: What is my fax number? [Ah, now we're getting sort of on-topic.]
    T: . . .?
    C: Someone needs to send me a fax, but I don't know my fax number.
    T: It's your phone number.
    C: No, my computer has a fax modem. I need to receive a fax on it, not a phone call.
    T: . . . !
    [20 minutes of trying to explain the concept of "fax" and get a phone line plugged into both an active jack and the right jack on the modem.]
    T: Thank you for calling Dell.
    T: [to me] You wouldn't believe the call I just had.
    [T relates call.]
    Me: I would have just told her "That service tag number you found . . . that's your fax number. Thank you for calling Dell. *click*"

    After that I always wanted to get that call, so I could say, with all the technical authority I could muster, "six."

  • Sounds more like a Kiosk thing (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @12:46PM (#5702774)
    Maybe the costs for this wouldn't be more than a separate monitor and scanner? Those two items are basically commodity priced right now, for most people's uses anyway. The combo screen would need to be pretty cheap to compete.

    We have maybe, maybe 15 copies for several hundred people right now, and a few flatbed scanners around the office here. There's no shortage. I can see some new applications, and all -- potentially conferencing, and people would scan to OCR stuff more (if affordable OCR would work for the things they want to use it on) -- but would these really cost out, if those are the selling points?

    Easier to see this at public kiosk sort of things -- "hold up your coupon, please" and other cooler variations on touch-screen I/O applications. There the cost difference doesn't seem like a lot next to the convenience of the combined screen/reader. Seems like that'd be the first place to run into it...

  • I can just see it now people using screen to copy their arses rather than photocopiers. :)

    Rus

  • So are the newbies who put whiteout on their screen also ahead of their time? When will we see monitors that translate the whiteout on the screen to an actual selection-delete?
  • first is starts out reading the paper, then it can do facial recognition WITHOUT the user knowing! Though there would be good uses for this (ie ATMs/Pharmacys/etc) there are downsides too. Just another small step for Big Brother.

  • Not a camera - a scanner (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @01:09PM (#5702997) Homepage Journal
    This is not a device that can form an image from an object at a non-trivial distance from the display - this is a device that only images an object placed against it.

    I would expect the primary intent of a device like this would be in a web-pad type device. Picture a clipboard, but thicker. Your customer hands you a printed item (work order, recept, whatever). You place the item face down against the display and push a button on the side. You remove the item from the display, and verify the scan took, then hand the item back to the customer.

    This would no more allow your monitor to image what is going on in the room than putting your flat bed scanner up on edge and leaving the top open would.
    • This is not a device that can form an image from an object at a non-trivial distance from the display - this is a device that only images an object placed against it.

      The best illustration of this use is probably Sun's Starfire [asktog.com] video. It's an amusing short film of what the future will look like, at least according to Sun. The centerpiece of the movie is a large, wraparound console that is not only touch sensitive but will automatically scan anything that is placed on it.

      There would appear to be a copy o

    • Think if it were a camera though. In a few years we'd have face-to-face communication like in star trek and we don't have to look up to the corner of our monitor or somewhere to a webcam or something. That would be kinda neat.

      Of course we all know it'll be 3-5, 7-10, 10-15 years. Take ur pick
  • Now, we'll be able to mouse using gestures in front of the display, and enter text using a geek variant on American Sign Language.

    This just leaps right past voice recognition, doesn't it...
  • This has actually a bunch of areas waiting to be explored. Imagine opening up a document (not necessarily MS Word). At this moment there are means to verify its sender & restrict viewing capabilities using (by example) PKI environments. But this still doesn't come close to "for your eyes only". Sign a document using nothing but pressing you thumbprint against the LCD panel, logging in, approving, etc...

    This could mean a boost for the growing biometric market out there. Instead of having yet more annoyi

  • In other news... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Thursday April 10, 2003 @01:36PM (#5703318) Homepage
    Toshiba has also announced a keyboard with an ANYKEY, a mouse that functions as a foot-switch (power switch), and a computer that really is in the case with the "TV screen" on the front.

    -
  • Remember jokes about clueless newbies trying to fax documents by holding them up to the monitor?

    A zillion or so years ago, I worked for a retail computer store as a build and repair technician, and some of my job (okay, most days it seemed most of my job) was phone support for our customers.

    Usually, my calls consisted of reading the manual to people too stupid to do so themselves. But this one, this one was different.

    You see, he was doing exactly this. He wanted to fax a document by holding it up to the
  • "A 3.5-inch diagonal LTPS LCD dubbed Input Display has an optical sensor for each pixel. The transmissive type color display with a QVGA (320x240 pixels) resolution, when placed on an object, scans an area of actual display size and captures it as a 960x240-pixel monochrome image."

    This is just like Silly Putty, but it probably doesn't bounce as well.
  • During John Sculley's reign, Apple put together a video, "Knowledge Navigator", showing where personal computing might be going in the 21st century. Intelligent agents, full natural language understanding, full video instant messaging, etc.

    One scene showed a guy with a portable machine who was using it to talk to a friend. He held his newspaper up to the flat screen so it could be scanned and sent to the person on the other end of the connection.

    So one piece of the puzzle may be on its way.

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