Zaurus SL-5600/SL-5500 Comparison Whitepaper 117
Bill Kendrick writes "A cool as the Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 Linux-based PDA is, there are definitely some quibbles about battery life, software and syncing. Fortunately, it seems the folks at Sharp and TrollTech have been working on it for the new 5600 model.
Sharp just posted a whitepaper (PDF) comparing the two models. (Newer kernel, no more root-privs-for-everything, JFFS2, dropping slow XML for PIM stuff, and USB-IO syncing, to name a few.)"
Re:Does it come with a full version of Mozilla ??? (Score:5, Informative)
Fonts are fine for PDA use. They don't run X (unless you add it!), they run embedded-QT. The 5500s included Opera as a browser, although I prefer konqueror-embedded.
In fact, I prefer OpenZaurus [openzaurus.org] in almost all ways. They've had jffs support for some time, and it's a simple process to mount /home on a 256M SD card. With that config, my 32M 5500D has more available RAM than a Sharp ROM configured 64M 5500.
Re:Does it come with a full version of Mozilla ??? (Score:2)
I still use Galeon/Mozilla at home but when I get a Zaurus I want a browser that is designed for the 320x240 screen.
Battery comparison (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Battery comparison (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Battery comparison (Score:4, Insightful)
-Rusty
the 5500 gives up 3-8 hours of battery life. (Score:2, Informative)
Geez guys, learn how to use your pda already. And yes, theKompany and OpenZaurus kicks palm booty.
Battery Life (Score:1)
Or something because if we could buy our batteries from a seporate supplier we might buy the original product.
Where as at the moment companies integrate everything into one highly controllable product. While this gives them power over the final experience that the product gives it ultimately leads to a bad results.
An example of compani
I can't wait! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I can't wait! (Score:1)
Re:I can't wait! (Score:4, Funny)
And if I drain the battery doing that, I've got more problems than I thought...
Re:I can't wait! (Score:5, Informative)
I have used both the SMC 802.11b cf card and the Socket Low Power 802.11b cards. The Socket definately draws less power, and my experience is that it has an equal range.
The down side of the Socket is that none of the built in wireless apps, nor any of the wireless apps (other than the text mode wireless tools) know how to communicate with the card, nor do they recognize it as a wireless network card.
The driver for the card is on the http://www.zaurus.com/feed server as spectrum24drivers (link is untested, set up your ipkg installer to get the drivers via your usb connection, or pull them down, get them on a cf or sd card and install from there.)
One of the local Office Depot stores is where I got my Socket card this week, There is a $30 mail in rebate, bringing the price down from 149 to 119 after the rebate.
My experience with the SMC card was I would get about half an hour of live time with the card installed. With the Socket card I am getting much closer to 2 hours, if not 3. Considering that I only get about 4 hours of live time without any network interface, I am fairly impressed.
If you drain the battery with this card, while sitting on the crapper, you really do have more problems than you thought.
-Rusty
Re:I can't wait! (Score:3, Informative)
The antenna housing on older Linksys cards is something to watch out for --- it completely blocks the stylus silo. (I had a pic up showing that, but the review site seems to have screwed up the links to the photo
Re:I can't wait! (Score:1)
Re:I can't wait! (Score:2, Informative)
I am still waiting for the C700 to use the PXA255 chipset though.
Re:I can't wait! (Score:1)
Re:I can't wait! (Score:1)
BTW... these ought to make real spiffy auto mp3/ogg players with the right cabling. One of my future projects!
Memory Area (Score:5, Funny)
SL-5500: 28.1MB
SL-5600: 29.1KB
Huh??
Re:Memory Area (Score:3, Funny)
explanation (Score:2)
why are there differences in s/w? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:why are there differences in s/w? (Score:5, Informative)
There might be differences between ARM and Xscale [intel.com]. I wish I knew.
In anycase, the white paper looks like it's simply describing the difference between the software out of the box. There's a wealth of "upgrades" out there to use, even whole distros for the ambitious:
Ordinary software packages availiable include useful things like a terminal.
I've seen the Open Zaurus working and it's very neat with working GUI, productivity suit and CF wifi. It is essentially a full replacement for the sotware that comes with the 5500, but you can keep and reinstall that software too.
The Debian project looks less developed but is working on cool stuff like an X interface. They have a kernel and root system set up, and a working X. It would be fun to work on.
Ironically, my Zaurus has a better processor than my much bigger laptop. It would be borg the two together, X to export aps to the laptop and disk storage in return. I expect to be able to do this latter than sooner.
Re:why are there differences in s/w? (Score:1)
Perhaps you meant the differences between the XScale and StrongARM. Buse the same ARM instruction set with the XScale having a few added instructions (which are usually totally useless, and thus irrelevant). Thus, they're perfectly compatible.
Re:why are there differences in s/w? (Score:1)
shit (Score:2)
Chris
Re:shit (Score:1)
This shouldn't affect you however since you'll be using the input on the CF card itself.
Re:shit (Score:1)
Chris
Strange (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Strange (Score:2)
Re:Strange (Score:1)
Re:Strange (Score:1)
Great advantage (Score:3, Funny)
Woo Linux (Score:1)
Non-root privileges? (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean it's a PDA: personal digital assistant. It's not like it's a multi-user workstation or an network server. Why wouldn't I just run as root?
Re:Non-root privileges? (Score:5, Informative)
Why would you ?
Seriously though, if you're logged in as root, you can do an end-run around lots of the mechanisms that make Linux as stable as it is. If you're a nonprivileged user, AND provided the kernel is doing it's job properly, it shouldn't be possible to make the thing crash.
Re:depends on what you mean by crash (Score:2)
Re:Non-root privileges? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Non-root privileges? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who needs a root-kit if the device does everything as root?
-Rusty
Linux syncing (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing I'd like to see is some company selling OS upgrades that lets people throw away Microsoft Pocket PC/Windows CE and replace with Linux. But then there must be a good syncing solution for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.
Ciryon
Re:Linux syncing (Score:4, Informative)
The C700 is much nicer (Score:5, Informative)
Here are some links:
My Zaurus Info page [www.mocm.de]
Conics Shop for ordering outside of Japan [conics.net]
Sharp's Japanese Zaurus Page [ezaurus.com]
Re:The C700 is much nicer (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/index.shtml
Purchasing information:
The Sharp Zaurus SL-C700 ships direct to you from Japan, arriving in about 3 business days. We do accept returns within 5 days, and subject to a 15% restocking fee. (Returned units will be sold at a discount on our specials page.) For the latest delivery info, please call a sales representative at 800-711-6277. Please see our pricing page for ordering information.
The MAJOR drawback to the C700 is crappy battery life, only about 4 hours. Thats not much better than most laptops.
Re:The C700 is much nicer (Score:3, Insightful)
The thing is, most Americans aren't interested in sub-notebooks and palmtop computers. They want electronic datebooks,
Re:The C700 is much nicer (Score:5, Informative)
Regarding the low memory, some of us are trying to upgrade it to 64M. The problem is not hardware now (read - hardware hackersl could replace the 32M of RAM by a 64M chip) but software. We are trying to make the XScale recognize that much RAM. It may involve kernel and bootloader hacking since the easy solutions like mem=64 did not work. Any help is welcome.
And for those who may say the CPU is too slow, I personally did overclock mine to ~450 Mhz, and the RAM to ~150Mhz.No problem of any kind. I did also enable the Cache (disabled by default by Sharp for a risk of bug on some hardware revisions) so I can now play divx full screen at 20 fps without any problem. It is certainly better than carrying a huge laptop in the plane!
I just need the bigger 5600 (b500) battery a friend is bringing back from Japan and I'll be most happy with my Zaurus C700 PDA ;-)
PS: if you want to get one, check the C700 FAQ [externe.net]. We are filling it with tips from the forum.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The C700 is much nicer (Score:1)
Then which is the eMail address or "petition page" (anyone on broadband -who's not a spammer- set up this one?) to convince Sharp that there's a market for the C700 (or even an improved version in this form factor, e.g. with more memory and wireless "connectivity") in Europe and the U.S. as well?
Sharp must have noticed
SL5000 (Score:2)
Rus
Make way for the new Zaurus (Score:2, Informative)
Its flash+RAM based, instead of being ROM+RAM-based.
That should effectively provide more space (if they write all persistent data to flash when the unit is shut down), and better battery utilisation.
This is a cool device, and a couple of my friends have the original 5500. One of them, who does testing for EMC, used to mount his test volumes over NFS, and start off his test scripts over telnet, all over the 802.11, while he sat in boring meetings.
Not as much s
Re:Make way for the new Zaurus (Score:2)
Without better support for XIP (execute in place) Linux have seemed to fit less well on portables needing more memory than necessary.
Now with support of applications executed from CF cards and the like (and maybe a Swap partition) wouldn't this make us run in circles around standard PDA's.
Of course this doesn't mean that this is the best way to do things on a PDA. Is
Battery Life (Score:3, Interesting)
5500 firmware upgrade? (Score:5, Interesting)
The hardware changes on the 5600 are not a radical shift from the 5500 (unless, of course, you buy into the MHz hype). I bet that not many people will ditch their 5500s and invest in 5600s primarily to fix problems that could be resolved through a firmware upgrade.
Re:5500 firmware upgrade? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most improvements seem to be in the software (Score:4, Interesting)
As a (relatively proud) owner of the 5500, I can tell you for sure that there's a lot of room for improvements.
Re:Most improvements seem to be in the software (Score:2)
Browser? (Score:2)
Re:Browser? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Browser? (Score:3, Informative)
I have a SL-5500 which comes with Opera 5 as it's default browser.
Downloadable browsers include Konquer and Links-ssl.
-Rusty
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
As for Opera, I admit I didn't try 6, but as of 5 it wasn't very stable for very long. Do you have any problems with it crashing, or perhaps do you not use the browser enough on the handheld that you would have a problem. I guess it's a moot point anyhow... I strongly dislike Opera's preferences, bookmarks, tab system, etc
Re:Browser? (Score:1)
The Zaurus is an amazing machine but I found that I spent most of my time giving it care and feeding, instead of using it to be more productive. It was also my first PDA. After a while I realized I'd be a lot happier (and more productive) just using a laptop, which is what I did.
Speaking of productivity,
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
This seems to be a universal problem. My first was a Windows CE device. I wised up and got a Psion, which happens to be pretty much the only handheld that you can be productive with. WinCE devices are just useless tech toys, and Palms are glorified alarm clocks. I'm not sure where Linux handhelds fit in, but I'd bet it's in the same area as WinCE.
BTW, MAME has been worki
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
Secondly, you stick it in your pocket and go to the meeting without grabbing a pad and pencil since you have the stealth kb to make quick notes and such.
As far as doing awesome Linux programming on a Zaurus,
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
I probably didn't explain myself very well. The reason I call Palms glorified alarm clocks, is because that is all they are suited to do very well. WinCE devices are toys because they are slow (despite incredibly fast processors, they are smoke by my 35MHz Psion for everything but pure number-crunching like OGG/MP3 and DivX), and they have all the features you could want, but each and every one is sub-par. eg
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
Then there is always the horrible battery life, the inability to see the screen in sunlight, the bulky desi
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
Hmm, maybe you didn't strip the executable? It's still in early devel so install doesn't strip automatically...
In case you haven't yet guessed, I've used Dillo a great deal. However, until it has the ability to copy text from a webpage, and save an image within a webpage, I don't have the slightest interest in using it. It's just too much of a hassle to switch to a different browser when I need those features, which is very
Re:Browser? (Score:2)
Dunno if Dillo can be compiled with QPE. It would probably work great with Debian/Zaurus though. I would be running Debian on it now ( I'm a Debian old-
CPU is discontinued? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:CPU is discontinued? (Score:1)
OpenZaurus is better (Score:5, Informative)
1. The calendar app is much more stable. My one remaining issue is with repeating appointments: if you modify a repeating appointment on the Z, it'll duplicate itself and you'll have two appointments in the same spot: one with the old info, and one with the new. If you instead modify the appt. with the Qtopia Desktop software (Linux--I never use the Windows version), you don't have this problem.
2. I used to lose all my to-dos everytime I synced with the Sharp software. Fixed.
3. You can get ipks from the Zaurus Software Index (http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus) to preserve the Jeode environment as well as the Hancom apps and Opera, so you can still use them on OpenZaurus. These utilities will convert them to ipks which you can copy to your machine. When you install OpenZaurus, you can just reinstall these apps as normal. I can testify that the Jeode one works: I don't have a need for the Hancom apps or Opera, so I never reinstalled them.
4. The theme feature is there in OpenZaurus, so if you're using it, you've already got what Sharp gives you in the 5600. I'm using the Liquid theme.
5. There's a nice Today app in OpenZaurus that gives you a snapshot of your day--both to-dos and calendar appointments.
6. I haven't encountered a 3rd party ipk that I used to use in Sharp's rom that doesn't work with the OZ rom.
7. I had to upgrade Sharp's rom to use a 128MB SD card. This also broke my connection to the Linux version (some "security patch" was also included in this upgrade that prevented the Linux Qtopia desktop from connecting, and also disabled ftp). Installing OZ fixed all of these issues.
8. OZ includes OpenSSH by default, so it's much easier to get into the Z and copy files.
9. The Sharp ROM crashed all the time. And I mean ALL THE TIME. I don't have that problem with OZ.
To get to the point, I would recommend to anyone who runs Linux and is purchasing a 5500 right now to save yourself the headaches and replace the default ROM with OpenZaurus. If you back up Jeode, Hancom, and Opera, you won't lose anything by doing it, and you'll have a much more stable PDA.
Re:OpenZaurus is better (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Crashed more often
2) Email application was more primitive
3) The backup didn't work at all
4) The application to install packages looked nicer but screwed up for more often.
I went back to using the normal ROM's for this reason.
Maybe someday...
Re:OpenZaurus is better (Score:1)
Speaking of Jeode -- the damn thing (evm, that is) is almost perfect for XWT [xwt.org] -- The only class I've found that doesn't exist with evm's AWT implementation is BufferedImage. So close...
Re:OpenZaurus is better (Score:2)
Will scope it out.
I only wish (Score:1)
ls -R / (Score:2)
Re:ls -R / (Score:2)
Application Support (Score:4, Informative)
DTM (DaTa Manager) is a set of modules that provide database functions to the applications.
This does not spell out well for third party developers who now have to have compliant apps for the 5500 and the 5600. It sounds like they're using something like the pdb format for palm. If they're going to change, I wonder why they didn't go with a standard like iCalendar [calsch.org] (RFC2445) at least for the PIM apps.
Using a newer kernel; SD card support? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Using a newer kernel; SD card support? (Score:2, Interesting)
Mine's been... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Mine's been... (Score:1)
A PocketPC wouldn't crash either. Trying to take a pot sot without anything to back it up?
Re:Mine's been... (Score:2)
My Palm Pilot Vx has had an uptime that must measure in years now. And that's with day to day use. The only time I had to reboot it was when I updated it to PalmOS 4.
I would be most upset if I 'upgraded' to a Windows CE or L
Re:Mine's been... (Score:1)
Neither should workstations and notebooks, but they certainly do.
Anyways, my primary point was how cool it was to be able to ssh into a PDA. I threw in the uptime as an extra (possibly undeserved) zing against Microsoft.
Re:Sad news ... Stephen King dead at 55 (Score:2)