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Handhelds Hardware

Palm PDA Roundup 227

Posted by michael from the toys-for-adults dept.
Melvin writes "Hardware Extreme has a roundup featuring some of the top PalmOS based PDAs in the market (and a few coming out in the 2nd and 3rd Quarter). Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."
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Palm PDA Roundup More

Palm PDA Roundup

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  • Palm Tungsten (Score:5, Interesting)

    by adoll ( 184191 ) <alex...doll@@@agdconsulting...ca> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:28PM (#5363060) Homepage Journal
    Check out my journal entry [slashdot.org] on my Tungsten. Love the little guy, but not for doing addresses and timekeeping. I read newspapers, listen to OGG files and flip through databases at work.

    -AD

    • Sharp Zaurus (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SHEENmaster ( 581283 ) <travis@uUUUtk.edu minus threevowels> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:04PM (#5363169) Homepage Journal
      Does all that, with a kickass k/b. I can't imagine using PalmOS with graffitti and all that bs.

      For those that are wondering, yes the Zaurus runs real Linux. Yes, Debian [debian.org] has been ported. Yes, a better pda environment [openzaurus.org] than sharp's is under development. Yes, having a wifi CF card and a 256mb SD card is the high life. Yes you can connect that that serial terminal or k/b up.

      • Re:Sharp Zaurus (Score:2, Informative)

        by UnixRevolution ( 597440 )
        This man speaks the truth!

        My Zaurus has a command line, can play mp3, OGG and Mpeg movies, has Quake, a bunch of other cool games, word proc, spreadsheet, file manager, unit calc, rdate, and even GCC...

        it's a GNU/Linux box in your pocket.

        And it is the high life.

      • Bought a Zaurus and have a Palm... (Score:5, Informative)

        by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @04:40AM (#5363899)
        The Zaurus sits unused while the Palm V still goes with me every day - because it's right there in my pocket with my keys!!! The Zaurus is just too big for that.

        The Zaurus is kind of nifty but it's no real Palm replacement. Not to mention the battery life is terrible, especially if you even think about attaching a CF 802.11b card!

      • Not so sharp Zaurus (Score:4, Insightful)

        by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @05:47AM (#5364025)
        I tried to give a cradled Zaurus access to our company's network by bridging connections. The bridge dutifully forwarded DHCP requests on the LAN to the server that the thing runs by default. Dozens of PCs got the bogus addresses and stopped working. The anger of the admin that came to my office to investigate quickly gave way to laughter when he realized just which device was acting as the "Enterprise" DHCP server.

        Maybe Zaurus is powerful but its not very polished. It's bad enough that the desktop software is Windows only. Last time I checked, there was no Mac software and you had to wait for a patch for your exact version of Linux kernel, recompile it and run ipconfig by yourself. But even on Windows, it doesn't look as nice as Palm desktop and doesn't support network or modem sync.

        At this stage, Zaurus is a good PDA for curious developers, not for people who want to have their address book, calendar and star trek e-books and not worry too much about setting things up.

        I am holding my breath for iWalk. One can always dream, right?

      • It runs Linux, so it must be good... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @09:27AM (#5364370) Journal
        Newsflash: Linux is not the perfect solution for every problem.
        I want a PDA that will play oggs, take notes / jotted drawings, connect to an 802.11b network, or GPRS when that isn't availible and un a jabber client. Oh, and I want it to fit into a shirt pocket. If it runs Linux, fine. If it runs ObscureOS(tm) then that's fine as well. Hell, I'd even be happy with it running Wince if it did what I want it to...
        The original Palm prototype was a block of wood, and the only constraint that the design team was given was that their design should be no bigger than the block of wood. If I'm going to cary this thing around with me all day, I want it to be easy to carry. Linux is great in a server, but you simply do not need a full-featured, server-class OS in a PDA. Someone I know recently bought a Wince machine. It has a 400MHz CPU. It feels about as fast as a 33MHz dragonball based Palm (although the latter can't handle ogg playback).
        A PDA is not a desktop computer, and should not be treated as such.

      • Re:Sharp Zaurus (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Hanno ( 11981 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @10:28AM (#5364480) Homepage
        I own a PalmOS PDA and a Zaurus.

        Yes, I'm a geek and I love techno toys. But I beg to differ: The Zaurus is not a good PDA.

        In addition to my earlier rant [slashdot.org]:

        My Palm PDA runs on one set of rechargeable batteries for two or three weeks. My Zaurus runs two or three days. Even if I'm away and can't recharge the Palm's batteries, I can get standard AAA batteries anywhere. The Zaurus battery is too small and it's a proprietary format, so I always have to bring the AC adapter.

        Granted, there are Palm PDAs with proprietary batteries, as well. But I see the limited battery lifetime and the price tag of replacement batteries as two of the major minuses of the Zaurus.

        I can't imagine using PalmOS with graffitti and all that bs

        Yes, you obviously can't since you never did. The Palm's applications do their job and that's it - and that's all I want from a PDA.

        Graffiti is a blessing. It works and I learned it within minutes, while the Zaurus' joke of a handwriting recognition software still doesn't recognize my handwriting, despite using about two hours of training on it, after which I gave up.

        You're right, though, the Zaurus keyboard is great. But I would love to see Graffiti or something similar on it. Yes, you can teach the Zaurus different strokes and there is a software package with the Graffiti strokes, but it just plain and simply doesn't work as good as the PalmOS PDAs.

        Considering the fact that the Zaurus CPU is more powerful than the one used in the older Palms, I'm sure that better recognition could be possible. But there just isn't anything in it now.

        yes the Zaurus runs real Linux. Yes, Debian [debian.org] has been ported. Yes, a better pda environment [openzaurus.org] than sharp's is under development.

        The Zaurus' Linux environment is neat, but in daily use, the PalmOS standard software is way more productive for me. The Qtopia apps aren't as well thought out. I personally don't mind, but the Palm PDAs are easy to understand and easy to use for everyone (including my Mom), while the Zaurus is a techno toy that also includes a mediocre calendar and addressbook software.

        It's nice to write software for the Zaurus, though, much nicer than for PalmOS, since there are so many alternatives to choose from in the Linux world. Yet it's kind of sad that the Linux sync support of the Zaurus is so bad and kernel driver needed for the desktop side still crashes the PC every now and then.

        Yes, having a wifi CF card and a 256mb SD card is the high life.

        If you can afford them and can live with the limited battery lifetime of your PDA as a consequence.

        Yes you can connect that that serial terminal or k/b up.

        Show me a decent serial keyboard that's not sold for a ridiculously high price tag. Also, the cable needed to connect a serial keyboard is sold at 40$ and above.

        So add the Zaurus, a CF wifi card, a 256 mb SD card, a serial keyboard and serial cable (or, alternatively, an IR keyboard) and you basically get an overpriced Microlaptop, but not a PDA.

        I use the Palm for my daily calendar and address book. I use the Zaurus as a (great) techno toy and I sometimes wonder if I should have saved the money I spent on it.
        • I converted my cradle. I just removed the usb-crap and replaced it with a DB9 serial port then plugged up a k/b from an old dumb terminal. An RJ45 for a newer terminal would also work.

          I'm sure you'll reply with something like "how much time did you waste on that", but I have a full sized k/b that could be replaced with a modem, no trouble.

          Is it even possible to get 802.11b from a palm!? If you want longer battery life get the Zaurus SL-5600; I bought my 5500 because I like having 64mb of usable ram wherever I need it.

          I am no expert on qtopia's pda utilities; I honestly think that pen&paper is the best solution for keeping track of my lameass repetitive life. I did try graffiti, it my be better than the Z's recognition, but neither worked well enough to by considered a viable option.

          On another note: I was able to recover all the data from my Zaurus after its screen broke. I can login over my LAN and get a console or use VNC to graphically interact with it.
    • Check out my journal entry on my Tungsten. Love the little guy, but not for doing addresses and timekeeping. I read newspapers, listen to OGG files and flip through databases at work.

      Uh, do ever bother to explain why not for doing addresses and timekeeping? Palms have done an admirable job of that for me for 6 years now; every once in a while it's a kick to know what i was doing on this day 5 years ago. (Though admittedly my addressbook is getting a little full of obsolete entries...)

      The only reason I could think of not to use Palm for that is if you were already using something that didn't have an easy way to synch with it.

  • Review? Round-up? Where? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tghost ( 589108 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:33PM (#5363076)
    Apparently, nowadays printing the back of the box where the specs are gleefully bullet pointed counts as a review.
    • And they didn't even do a good job of that. In the Treo "review" they say:

      "The Treo 180 have all the Treo 270 features except without a color screen. The black and white screen will greatly increase your battery's life if you frequently use your phone."

      Even ignoring typos, this is just plain wrong. The color 270 gets significantly better battery life than the B&W 180.

      Sigh.

    • Re:Review? Round-up? Where? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Yo Grark ( 465041 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:14PM (#5363208)
      Couldn't agree more.

      I am in the market to buy a new Palm/PocketPC and was looking forward to this article.

      Not one pro/con, not one REAL THOUGHT.

      That ranks right up there with the recent journalism though, so all in all I'm not surprised.

      Yo Grark
      Canadian Bred with American Buttering

      • I just got the Treo 90 and am happy for what I need and being price-constrained. Check it out.

        I didn't do much research this time (played with a bunch at Circuit City and have owned Palms before). However, in looking for grafitti software for it (it has a keyboard and no grafitti), I read a review of it on about.com. It was pretty much right-on with only one exception: the reviewer said you can't use it with the cover closed, but that's not true.

        You might want to check their other PDA reviews.

    • Well look at the URL of the article's poster. This "news" item was brought to you (and probably paid for) by HWExtreme.

    • Look at their "Review" [hwextreme.com] of the iMac. They literally took Apple's own propaganda (from a year ago, since this is an old story), added a few exclamation points, and printed it. Now I like Apple just as much as anyone here, but it doesn't help anyone to portray this propaganda for a review. Furthermore, one look at their Aquaesque forum [extreme-forums.com], and their perceived credibility and objectiveness take another hit.

  • Palm is a sinking ship (Score:3, Insightful)

    by evil-empir3 ( 590188 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:37PM (#5363088)
    Honestly, I don't understand that Palm is still newsworthy. They created some innovative PDAs, but they are about to be gobbled up by all of the PocketPC vendors. The inertia is going to be too much to overcome, especially with Dell now offering a very affordable ($199) PDA that runs circles around anything similarly priced by Palm.

    • Re:Palm is a sinking ship (Score:5, Interesting)

      by iCEBaLM ( 34905 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:41PM (#5363101)
      Slashdot readers like myself may not like Palm PDA's because they don't cram a whole lot of whiz-bang features into the PDA's, they aren't laptop replacements in your hand, but that's NOT what Palm is gunning for. They're electronic organizers made for business professionals, and at this they excel. They are better at this job than PocketPCs. They are simple, elegant and trustworthy. You normally do not have to reset a Palm handheld 5 times a day like you do with a PocketPC unless something is horribly wrong with it or an application you have on it was coded by a 3 year old monkey.

      Palm is not a sinking ship, they just don't target you as a user.

      -- iCEBaLM

      • Re:Palm is a sinking ship (Score:5, Interesting)

        by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:18PM (#5363220)
        Amen to that!

        I have had several Palm units: PalmPilot Pro, IIIe, VIIx and i705. When Palm.Net plan changes would have put my monthly bill over $80, I canceled the account on the spot, since wireless access wasn't worth that much every month to me.

        I bought a Toshiba e335, and tried it out for about three weeks. In that time:

        (1) The alarm light never worked properly,
        (2) The battery indicator would jump around from time to time,
        (3) ActiveSync would drop out spontaneously, sometimes during a sync operation,
        (4) The Transcriber, while a great idea, was awkward when entering appointments and tasks. I used the Block Recognizer (virtual Grafitti pad) more often, simply because it was one of the few thigns that worked reliably.

        The OS got in the way of the things I needed to do. Thus, I reverted back to my i705, but haven't reactivated the service (yet). Simply put, the Palm just works. Plain and simple. The lower end units weren't designed to be used regularly to edit Word docs or Excel spreadshets--use your laptop to do that. Viewing them, I can understand, but not editing or creating new docs.

        Is sound and color and hi-res graphics important? To some, yes--in that case go for a Sony or one of the Palms that will do such things. I for one don't plan on making a full-color presentation using my PDA--again, that is is what the laptop is for.

        All in all, it really does matter what your target customer is. For me, the PocketPC was way too buggy and clumsy. The Palm interface does what I need it to do, cleanly and simply.

      • Re:Palm is a sinking ship (Score:5, Insightful)

        by waytoomuchcoffee ( 263275 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:23PM (#5363236)
        I own both a Handera (Palm OS) and an IPAQ 1910. I do not have to reset the Ipaq 5x a day. (I did have to reset the Handera, however, every week or so, but that was OS4).

        My company made a business decision on what to upgrade to. We really wanted to keep with the Palm OS, but there was no lightweight, OS 5, full screen versions out there. The Clie's are NOT made for business and are bricks, while the Palm T|T is not full screen (and is expensive).

        We settled on the 1910 because of the form factor and very low weight (it's smaller than a Palm V). This is important, as if people can't stick it in their pocket they will not use them as often. They are also cheap; $300 retail, much less than the competing OS 5 models (with our business discount we got them for $264 each). Contrary to what I always thought when I used my Palm, Palms are NOT better at being an electronic organizer for business professionals. There are lots of little tricks you can do with the PPC that you can't do with a Palm -- if you move the left/right directional buttons in the Contact list for example, you can switch between different phone/fax numbers without going into the record itself. Pretty neat, and elegant.

        It's a shame because I really loved my full-screen Handera. It's incredibly ironic that Palm users, after years of complaining that PPCs were heavy and were not "simplistic", are now buying up multimedia bricks like the Clies.
        • maybe you're referring to the NV series clies, I don't know. But my Clie T615C is lighter, smaller, more stylish, AND has more features than did the Palm m130 I had just before this. All for the same price. Honestly, I don't know WHY anyone would buy a Palm brand.

          And as for stability, results may vary. I had to reset my Clie once. It was from installing new apps.
          • THe T615C is not full screen. I don't care that it is higher res, after having full screen with my Handera I am not going back. Others in my office felt the same way.

            Sony chose the route of multimedia brick for their full-screen models. It's not for business use.
      • ...or an application you have on it was coded by a 3 year old monkey
         So that's why I can't find a job.

      • Re:Palm is a sinking ship (Score:5, Insightful)

        by UnixRevolution ( 597440 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:18AM (#5363360) Homepage Journal
        I am forced to disagree. Palm's machines, either by OS or by the system itself, are little more than the cheap $30 databanks you see in the stationary section of a store compared to a modern pocket PC. Every time someone refers to my Zaurus SL-5500 as a "Palm Pilot" i cringe and tell them to renounce their blasphemy. The Zaurus's organizer's functions are excellent, and i cannot imagine them being any better. The input ease from the slide-away KB or onscreen KB is excellent, and i have no complaints. It's powerful, and flexible. I could code and compile C programs, write HTML pages, or do any number of things on it if i wanted to. I could even edit images! It's got internal storage to spare, and like Palm or Handspring, doesn't need sync software or proprietary memory to work. (indeed, i've had it for months and have never synched it with another system...i just transfer things via CF or the wireless eth card.) It may have been $400, but it's well worth it. It's a real computer, just like my compaq laptop, my dual Athlon 2100+ workstation, my suns, apples, SGI, and my other x86's. It runs real linux! This also helps it cope with the instability problem the previous author was talking about. I've never had to reset my zaurus, EVER. It's a delight, and superior in every way to any palm. Even its organizer functions are awesome, especially considering i never have to worry about synching it, and i can connect to the web with full color and view real web pages, chat on IRC, and even download files with Qtella. Zaurus, and other PocketPC's, particularly the Linux ones, are the best handhelds out there. Better than WinCE Ipaq/Journada/Axiom/Toshiba systems, better than Palm and Clie, just plain better. AND they fit nicely in your pocket, backpack, briefcase, or laptop tote.
      • The problem is, Casio can make a simple, cheap organizer for $30.

        I'm miffed at Palm because my m515 crashed yesterday and destroyed all my data. Besides feeling stupid and angry at myself for not making a backup recently, I'm irritated at Palm for not having a more robust OS. People shouldn't have to implement "hacks" that threaten system stability just to make an app switcher or graffiti-area keyboard.

        I'm all for a simple, elegant interface, but there should still be solid software engineering underneath.

        • Actualy, the problem is that palm is trying to compete with Pocket PC when they should really concentrate on compeating with the $30 Casio. &200- $300 for a palm these days is rediculus, but $100 for a super organizer would sell wonderfully.
          • You mean like this? [palm.com]. Just because there are high end palms, doesn't mean that there isn't simple low-cost ones as well. I remember when all Palms cost $300-$400 dollars. As a group they've all come down in price by a big margin.
      • The sad thing is that Palm is dying because it's not innovating. All of the built-in apps are pretty much the same as they've always been. The price of the new PDAs is absurd while the new PDAs don't do much more than their predecessors.

        The last straw for me was when Palm pretended they hadn't heard of the problem my IIIc had (and my coworker had the same problem, and so did my brother-in-law). When the brightness was appreciably above minimum, the digitizer was totally useless. I didn't really know how bad it was until I used TealEcho to see what the IIIc thought I was writing--it was horrible. Palm claimed that they'd never heard of the problem in spite of the links I provided to discussion boards in which several people claimed to have contacted Palm with the same problem.

        Fool me once...
        • The last straw for me was when Palm pretended they hadn't heard of the problem my IIIc had

          This actually is not a known issue with the IIIc, just because some random people that you personally know have it doesn't make it widespread enough for palm to have known about it.

          -- iCEBaLM

  • Gadget? (Score:5, Funny)

    by cybermace5 ( 446439 ) <g.ryan@macetech.com> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:41PM (#5363100) Homepage Journal
    "Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."

    This is a first ever: a Slashdot submission from the PDA itself! Now when did they become sentient....

    • Re:Gadget? (Score:3, Funny)

      by fiftyfly ( 516990 )

      "Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."


      This is a first ever: a Slashdot submission from the PDA itself! Now when did they become sentient....



      meh - who ever said you had to be sentient to post on /.?

  • C'mon Apple! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Snagle ( 644973 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:44PM (#5363108)
    I Want My iPDA !!!

  • Roundup? (Score:4, Informative)

    by t0ny ( 590331 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:45PM (#5363109)
    I wouldnt call it a roundup. Looks more like a review of all the available product liturature in one convenient place.

    More of an advertising spot than a review; I was hoping for comparisons and criticisms on the different models.

    Which one will play Quake 3?

    • Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought the same...every one of the PDAs had a glowing review. From the About Us [hardwareextreme.com] link:

      Hardware Extreme is dedicated to bringing it's readers the most comprehensive reviews available. If you have a product you'd like us to review please e-mail us. We will guarantee that the review will receive at least 50,000 page views within a few days after it has been posted.

      Getting /.ed is certainly one way to ensure 50,000 hits. This isn't a "news for nerds" item, it's a shameless plug.

  • Content Free Article? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crawling_chaos ( 23007 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:45PM (#5363110) Homepage
    Was it just me, or did this roundup look suspiciously like a "cut and paste the press releases and call it an article" job? There was no insight as to which device would be better for particular tasks, just breathless discussions of each device that read as if they'd come straight from the manufacturer's PR flacks.

    Is this normal for this site? If so, I don't think that I'll be reading any more articles that they "write."

  • i705? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lpret ( 570480 ) <lpret42@NOspAm.hotmail.com> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @10:55PM (#5363134) Homepage Journal
    What the hell is the i705 doing on that list?
    I treat it much lower than the Palm Vx which is the epitome of a sexy PDA. The i705 is perhaps the worst PDA ever put out by Palm in that it does nothing except extend the life of Palm.net or whatever they called it. Even the Palm VIIx was more groundbreaking than the i705.

    I do have to say that after moving from Palm to Pocket PC, the thing I miss the most is a decent battery life. My Toshiba e740 gets about 3 hours, while my Vx got about 2 weeks.

    • Although I, too, own a Palm Vx and love it, the 705 is even better for me. Having built in email, IM, and other internet functionality is very nice (e.g., mapquest, google, etc) and handy. While you are correct that the underlying technology on the 705 is almost the same as the Palm VII, it is the minor changes that make all the difference. First and foremost, the 705's size and shape is much better from a strict usability point of view. Second, the screen is better, much crisper and easier to read in poor light conditions (e.g., outside). Third, it's more attractive. Fourth, it's got an LED and a vibrating alarm to notify you without having to physically check your email (i.e., it pushes notification out to you in a battery efficient manner). Fifth, it integrates with real email well, like the blackberry (not like Palm VII's, if i remember correctly, psuedo email). Sixth, the minikeyboard rules (I couldn't imagine trying to write most emails w/ grafitti)

      In short, it does its job very well, that is to say PDA (contacts, scheduling, etc) + email + minor browsing. I don't think it's the greatest looking and I wish it were metal, but there is nothing else that really competes yet, other then the Blackberry and maybe the Treo. Of course with the blackberry you've got too few lines on the traditional model for web and the newer one is too big. The Treo's coverage is lacking and I really don't want my phone integrated just yet. IMHO, it's the best at what it does right now, and will probably be until the Tungstun W (presuming that data coverage is anywhere near as comprehensive and if the battery life holds up), so it does deserve to be there. The 705, like the blackberry, is one of those devices that you just have to actually use for a couple days to appreciate it.
    • Hey, I have an i705 with palm.net and I love it... you insensitive clod!
  • My next "phone" will be either of those.
    The P800 uses Symbian, an OS that really looks good on paper.
    Palm:
    + 320x320 screen
    + PalmOS (familarity & apps)
    + Keyboard (emailing and bitching on /.)
    + MMS/SSD card
    - Size
    - Battery?
    P800
    + Smaller, more phone-like
    ? 208x320 screen
    - No keyboard
    - Memory Stick
    - No PalmOS (?)
    - Price?
    • I use the Palm T-T and can say I'm amazed at the battery life. I can listen to 3 hours of OGG music files, read 3 online newpapers and still have 50% of the battery life remaining. Battery isn't replaceable so you have charge the one that's onboard.

      The keyboard wouldn't do it for me; I use little graffi typing and am usually reading or listening to downloaded content.

      -AD
    • A colleague bought one of these on Friday, and it is loveley. However, do beware of the size - it's very big for a phone. I am tempted by the idea of getting one, but I've been very spoiled by the thinness of my Palm V, and I'm not sure I could put up with the bulk of the P800.

  • Dont get a Palm (Score:5, Interesting)

    by m4g02 ( 541882 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:10PM (#5363189)
    Didnt you read the last Linux Uprising [slashdot.org] article?, Linux is getting hot in the handhelds world and i belive GPE Palmtop [handhelds.org] (GPL license) will become its best UI in a few years.

    Dont get stuck with an useless and outdated OS, meet the future and get a Zaurus [sharp-usa.com] (or wait for the IBM Linux handhelds [geek.com]).
    • Dont get stuck with an useless and outdated OS, meet the future and get a Zaurus [sharp-usa.com] (or wait for the IBM Linux handhelds [geek.com]).

      Huh? GPE runs on top of Linux, just like the Zaurus. The only difference is the window system.

    • Make sure you are sitting by a plug, so you can recharge the thing every hour or so.

      The Zaurus is nice (I have one) but the Palm is usable. Instead of "getting stuck with an outdated OS", why not use a "stable and well-supported system with many apps", and wait for the other guys to catch up in real-world usability - in other words, get a palm to use for a decade or so, and then see what sorts of things people have out (and if they still have cameras by then or if they've given up that fad). Rule of thumb - if you want something you'll use every day, get a Palm - if you want a toy buy something else.

      Not that Palm devices are immune from the infections camera tumor disease. The GPS palm looked possibly handy though...
    • Because it's not Linux, it's "useless and outdated"? Call it flamebait if you will, but just because it's Linux, doesn't mean it's the best thing since flush toilets, sliced bread, pop-top cans.
    • Well, perhaps it is getting hot, but it isn't hot now. The Zarus is a nice machine, but if you look at PalmOS you have a much wider range of hardware, so you have a better chance of finding hardware that matches your needs - you can get a big fat Sony with every gadget imaginable, or a tiny little M500 that you can drop in your shirt pocket and forget it is there.

      I'd say choosing an OS widely considered to be the best focussed at the PDA device market was a better choice than one that has been shoe-horned into a PDA size - of course this is mostly a criticism of PocketPC; Linux is good at fitting odd devices, but I'm not sure it's the best choice.
    • will become its best UI in a few years

      That may be true, but I'm looking for a PDA for less then $200 today, not in a few years.

  • Samsung SPH-i330 (Score:5, Informative)

    by ahrenritter ( 187622 ) <deinspanjer@gmail.com> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:21PM (#5363227) Homepage
    I just recently purchased the Samsung SPH-i330 [samsungusa.com] smart phone, and I have been very happy with it. It runs PalmOS 3.5.3 with 16mb of RAM. It has a virtual silkscreen, so you can do fun stuff similar to what you can do with a HandERA such as having a full keyboard (SilkyBoard [silkyboard.com]). The only draw back to it is that it doesn't have an expansion slot. I did purchase the data cable and hooked it up with my Delorme [delorme.com] Earthmate GPS [delorme.com] and XMap® Handheld Street Atlas USA® Edition [delorme.com]. It works quite nicely like this.

  • Ignorance (Score:3, Interesting)

    by M3wThr33 ( 310489 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:37PM (#5363262) Homepage
    How could they leave out one of the most important devices of this coming year?
    I see other unreleased Palms on there, but where is the Kyocera 7135? It's been a documented fact that Smartphone sales have been down since the announcement of it back on June 24th, 2002. USA Today had an ad in it mentioning 47,000 people on the waiting list for it(Me being one of them). It's finally available in limited markets, but I find it appaling that they could ignore the smartest smartphone of them all.
    Here [smartphonesource.com] is an avid collection of people dedicated to this pda.
    How can you ignore it?

    • Re:Ignorance (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I was surprised also to not see the Kyocera 7135, I have been using it for ~ 2 months now, it's my first "smartphone" but I have been using cell phones and PDAs for several years, and the 7135 is pretty much the best thing since sliced bread. I tried out the treos and tons of other palm devices, and the 7135 beats them all to smitherines. The only complaints I have about it is that it's only 33mhz and the buttons are a little slow on responsiveness. It works great in Linux using serial, and I have heard the USB works with it too.

  • It's not the PDA that sucks (Score:5, Informative)

    by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:47PM (#5363281)
    All these PDAs are cool but they all suck in one very important way. None of them work with any email/address/calendar clients besides Outlook, Notes or Eudora. And even there support is iffy. I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to fully sync with Mozilla. (Palm does a very half baked job and nothing else bothers)

    I'd love to buy one of these but I need something that works with a genuinely cross platform email/address/calendar client. Evolution is great, Outlook is easy but none of these are on every platform I use. Without that, it's of no use to me.

    • Re:It's not the PDA that sucks (Score:4, Informative)

      by krokodil ( 110356 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @04:18AM (#5363869) Homepage
      All Plam devices sync with GNOME address book
      and calendar. Just get yourself mail client
      which can use these.

      It is right way of doing this, because you could not
      support all email cients on the market. So it is up to email client to integrate with gnome calendar and address book.
      • All Plam devices sync with GNOME address book
        and calendar. Just get yourself mail client
        which can use these.

        That would be great except that I use Windows about 3/4 of the time (work & such), OS X and linux about split the rest of the time with occasional IRIX use. GNOME just isn't really a viable option on all of these. All these devices use the Outlook address book and calendard too but I'm not really intersted in maintaining multiple address books. More trouble than it is worth.
    • None of them work with any email/address/calendar clients besides Outlook, Notes or Eudora.

      Then develop a conduit for whatever application with which you are trying to sync. Palm is very friendly to developers. My m125 syncs just dandy with iCal and Address Book thanks to iSync Palm Conduit.

      • Then develop a conduit for whatever application with which you are trying to sync. Palm is very friendly to developers. My m125 syncs just dandy with iCal and Address Book thanks to iSync Palm Conduit.

        Not everyone who reads slashdot is a developer or even wants to be. I'm an engineer but software development is not my cup of tea. (If you want to talk CAD or simulation, that's different...) I'd have to develop such an application for at least 3 different operating systems. It's easy to just say "Oh why don't you develop it yourself" but realistically that's not an option. Obviously you didn't develop the app to let you synch, so what makes you think I could/would?

        Besides even if I wanted to do it, I don't have the time. (Wife, work, life, etc...)
        • Obviously you didn't develop the app to let you synch, so what makes you think I could/would?

          Bitch, moan, complain, then says it's not your responsibility to make sure your needs are met.

          We need more people like you on the open source front. You're mad that you can't sync with some exotic application? Then don't use that exotic application or, like I said earlier, develop a conduit, beg a developer to develop a conduit or pay to develop a conduit.

        • Well, everyone who reads slashdot is I hope sligtly familiar with how the opensource model works; if there are developers who want it enough they'll write it. If there aren't, they won't. I reckon thought that PalmOS is your best bet, given that the conduit mechanisms are well understood and the tools readilly available.

          More practically, you could always contribute to Mozilla in a non-developmental way, such as writing docs, take some burden off the developers and encourage them to work on a conduit.
    • I'd love to buy one of these but I need something that works with a genuinely cross platform email/address/calendar client. Evolution is great, Outlook is easy but none of these are on every platform I use. Without that, it's of no use to me.
      You did read my Syncronizing your PalmOS® Handheld with Ximian Evolution(TM) [pilot-link.org] HOWTO, didn't you?

      In any case, you can sync to Mozilla, assuming your export your data to a format suitable for import into Mozilla. The OeOne [oeone.com] group are doing just that with their products, and I can do the same thing here with LDIF and other formats.

  • Went in to staples yesterday just to see if they had anything worthwhile, and sitting in their display case for pda's and pda accessories was a Sony Clie SJ30 on clearance for $125. My Handspring Visor died over the holidays I snatched it right up. Considering that the SJ33 is going for $299 and I already have an mp3 player that holds alot more than I can afford to buy in Sony Memory Sticks, its great for me.

  • some thoughts (Score:4, Informative)

    by pummer ( 637413 ) <spam AT pumm DOT org> on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:48PM (#5363284) Homepage Journal
    Why would anyone ever need anything more than what the current top-of-the-line Sony Clié has to offer?? Camera? Got it. Mp3 player? Got it. Plenty of memory? Got it.

    Help me here.
    • Why would anyone ever need anything more than what the current top-of-the-line Sony Clié has to offer?? Camera? Got it. Mp3 player? Got it. Plenty of memory? Got it. Help me here.

      Integrated mobile phone a la handspring treo.

      It's what I want. Otherwise I have to carry 2 gadgets.

  • I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but... (Score:5, Informative)

    by mbstone ( 457308 ) on Saturday February 22, 2003 @11:49PM (#5363286)
    ... next time I'll buy a separate PDA, 'cause the airlines won't let me use a PDA-phone, even though the phone in my Kyocera SmartPhone powers-off separately and the PDA has a big, obvious display reading "PHONE IS OFF."
    Dear mbstone:

    Thank you for writing. We have recently updated our electronic device usage policy to include PDAs with cell phone capability (whether the phone is on or off) on the list of those items not approved for use during flight. We reached this conclusion because there is no definitive way to ensure the cell phone function is or remains off during flight. Therefore, in the interest of safety, we decided to prohibit their use all together.

    We hope to have your understanding and cooperation on this important issue. Please travel with us again soon. It is a privilege to serve you.

    Sincerely,

    Customer Relations
    American Airlines
    • I'll buy a separate PDA, 'cause the airlines won't let me use a PDA-phone, even though the phone in my Kyocera SmartPhone powers-off

      Hell, they won't let me listen to mp3's on my ipaq until it 'is safe to use portable electronics' bullshit. Headphones - yup, a walkman is sure a problem. When I pilot a Piper Warrior, I use the bloody thing as a nav aid to time waypoints.

      Got to love comities and/or profit generators... AA is going down in flames anyhow. The others are just as bad when it comes to policy, however.
      • The frequencies generated in portable devices, especially something as overblown as an iPaq, have long been up to radio communications frequencies. Even though the chance is small, the risk of a device jamming communications, transponder, or radar frequencies is not acceptable: in the middle of the night no pilot can avoid the other airliner coming head-on.

        It's not just the wireless functions of these devices; those are already sectioned off into approved ranges by the FCC. It's the internal processors, high-speed square pulses with lots of harmonics all over the spectrum.

        Maybe if devices were all reliably shielded to eliminate RF emissions, this wouldn't be an issue. Can't ever be sure though, it seems a lot of case modders have no regard for the EMI they're spraying out of those clear case windows.

        Once cabin EM shielding is more universal, there won't be as many problems getting to use your devices. Just as long as they can be sure you're not using your phone...it really screws up the cell network to have a phone's signal in a dozen cells at the same time.
        • The frequencies generated in portable devices, especially something as overblown as an iPaq, have long been up to radio communications frequencies. Even though the chance is small, the risk of a device jamming communications, transponder, or radar frequencies is not acceptable: in the middle of the night no pilot can avoid the other airliner coming head-on

          Not to beat a dead horse, but you realize how insignificant the radio frequencies would be for my 206mhz strongarm CPU? Forget that, do you even know what frequencies are used?

          VOR -108mhz and 117.95

          Most radio beacons - 190 to 535khz

          Most communication ~122.*mhz

          VOR/LOC - 108to117.95mhz

          DME - 962 to 1213mhz

          ELT - 121.5mhz (civilian), not sure about military.

          Transponders - 980-1220 MHz

          I've actually done a little experimenting to satisfy my sense of self preservation. I tuned the navcom to 206mhz and get no changes in static when I cycle power. Same goes for some of the other frequencies I use. This is when the ipaq is Velcroed above the radio and transponder, not sitting in first class a good 8+ feet behind the cockpit. I cannot detect the ipaq with any of the avionics equipment I use.

          The thought that such a device could not only unintentionally broadcast on the same frequency is a bit of a stretch, but theoretically possible. The possibility that the broadcast would have anywhere near enough power to jam any avionics equipment is laughable.

          As a side note, most pilots look for other aircraft's lights at night.... I think they are easier to spot than daytime. It is not till you are flying under instrument conditions and larger birds with collision detection gear comes into play.

  • Sad, no T665 was listed. Great little device. Small, sleek, powerful, great display. And for $299, can't go wrong. It's an MP3 player too.

    Great hardware.

  • Zire is the only one that make sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:07AM (#5363333)
    You can get the Palm Zire for about $80-$100 at your local electronics store. It's great for the things that PalmOS is traditionally good at: calendaring, TODO lists, and simple note taking. I think it's the only Palm that makes any sense.

    The high-end Palms with high-end features (MP3, multitasking, cameras, high-resolution screens, etc.) are a horrible combination of hardware and software kludges to get PalmOS to do things that PalmOS was never designed to do. For example, many of those nifty features on the Clie have required Sony to hack their own extensions into PalmOS, and every Palm software vendor needs to accomodate those. And because each vendor hacks PalmOS to their liking, Palm can't even ship a single upgrade from PalmOS 5 to PalmOS 6--you will be able to upgrade your Sony only if Sony spends the time and money to create their own upgrade.

    Unfortunately, the Linux PDAs aren't doing much better either. The Zaurus (I own one) is a brick. Several other Linux handheld startups went belly-up. And handhelds.org is fighting a constant battle to reverse engineer handhelds in order to run Linux on them--even handhelds that are developed within Compaq/HP, the company hosting handhelds.org. However, Motorola's use of Linux on their cell phones may give Linux on PDAs a new life.

    I hate to say it, but if you are using Windows on your desktop and if you are looking for a high-end handheld, a PocketPC machine probably makes more sense. Even something like the iPaq h1910 ($299) runs rings around more expensive Palm models and is lighter to boot. The big problem with PocketPC is that it is completely proprietary: it pretty much only talks to Windows desktops and the primary development platform for it is Microsoft proprietary. But, then, it isn't clear to me why you would want a high-end handheld to begin with.

    Overall, I'd just stick with the Palm Zire, and for the other features (MP3 player, GPS, camera, games, etc.) get separate, dedicated devices.

    • I'm a mac user and I love my Pocket PC. Although I should point that unless you are fairly proficient with both devices your goose is pretty well roasted to get them to interoperate.

      But since all I ever do is xfer mp3s and DivX files to my CF card, it works fabulous.

    • Re:Zire is the only one that make sense (Score:4, Funny)

      by UnixRevolution ( 597440 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:50AM (#5363444) Homepage Journal
      Time for a night on the town! I need my geekcessories! Let me get my zire, my cell phone, my mp3 player, my voice recorder, my game boy with its seven cartridges, my gps, my digital camera... oh my. Now i know why they invented cargo pants...

    • Re:Zire is the only one that make sense (Score:4, Informative)

      by guacamolefoo ( 577448 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:29AM (#5363522) Homepage Journal
      I would suggest buying a used handspring visor. You get the PDA stuff and you can use the modules. My current favorite is the Sprint PCS module, which gives you a (slightly bulky) cellphone/PDA combo for about $15 bucks (eBay). A Visor Deluxe or Neo can be had for about $70. Whole deal is less than a Zire and far, far cooler.

      GF.
    • I just bought a Sony Clié NX60. I'm a photographer, and I'm able to carry this handheld in my pocket everywhere I go. I use FileMaker Mobile to synchronize my Film database archive with my Palm, so whenever I expose a roll/sheet of film in the field, I can immediately enter and catalog it into my archival database. Furthermore, the high res screen is great for carrying around a BUNCH of my work scanned in. I mean, I pull this thing out in front of other people I work with and they think it's incredibly cool. I'm sure it isn't just useful to those in my field of work, but I'm so incredibly happy with the handheld I don't know where to begin. Better than carrying a laptop around that's for sure.
    • Palm licensees have access to the source code. The Palm OS 4 Sony Cliés do some unique stuff, but it's done in a safe manner. The only complaints I've heard about compatibility is the colors for the virtual silkscreen area can go odd.

      Hires on Sony/Palm OS 4 is done through what basically amounts to a DLL. Applications that want to support Hires need to load the library and execute it. Applications that want to take over the grafiti area need to specify that as well.

      Hires on Palm OS 5 is all done the same way, through a nw API that PalmSource has added.

      But you're right, PalmSource can't ship a single version of Palm OS 6 that covers all Palm OS handhelds. But why would you want them to? Wouldn't you rather have Sony responsible for Palm OS 6/Sony compatibilty than PalmSource?

      I love my Clié NR70. My next handheld will probably be a Tungsten T, but it won't be for compatibility... I've been spoiled by the small size when developing for them and I want Bluetooth at a lower price than Sony can give me.

  • I've been messing with handhelds a lot lately (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gizzmonic ( 412910 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @12:37AM (#5363410) Homepage Journal
    my girlfriend just bought the Clie (16MB, High-res display, b&W, Memory Stick)

    and I myself received a Treo 90 for my birthday. (16 MB, lo-res, color, SD)

    The Clie comes with so much useless software that my girlfriend had to delete a ton of stuff before she could install her medical reference software. She has 16 friggin MB, which should be about ten times as much needed for palm OS. She wants to get a Memory Stick, but a lot of Palm apps don't work running of the stick.

    My Treo 90 is pretty neat...except that the backlight has blown out. Twice. And every time it happens, I have to wait on hold for 30 minutes. Hope it doesn't happen again!

    So..I can't recommend either of these handhelds. Perhaps Dell's new offering might be a smarter choice!

  • Handspring Visors... (Score:3, Informative)

    by KeelSpawn ( 575726 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:19AM (#5363505) Journal
    Although the newest visor came out at the end of year 2000, let's not forget the clever feature that they all came with - the springboard expansion slot. With over 100 modules varing from GPS, digital cameras, digital voice recorders, language translators, bar-code scanners, mp3-players, CF/SD/MMC readers, digital projector adapters, Personal Massagers (!), to other numerous wireless moduels.

    Maybe the newest handhelds today has all the above "built-in", but let's not forget who invented the wheel.

  • respect the modifier! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ravagin ( 100668 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @01:27AM (#5363514)

    Sorry, this has been bugging me for a long time and hell I've got karma to burn. I'm not picking on the poster, just the general grammatical carelessness to which I too am occasionally subject.

    Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA

    Okay, so you are recommending this to us because you are a geek's gadget? Some sort of AI agent perhaps, or a sexbot? Eh?

    Okay, I'm done.

    In on-topic news, my second-hand TRG Pro has lasted me well for over a year now; the CF slot keeps it expandable and the PalmPix camera keeps it indispensable. Use of the PalmPix is the only real argument against the HandEra 330 [handera.com] when the TRG fails.

    Remember when OS 3.5 was hot? Anybody? No? I'll just go read this review for some new game called Dungeons&Dragons, then....

  • Great review. I always like my hardware reviews crammed full of marketing claptrap from start to finish!

  • Looking for a used Palm (Score:4, Informative)

    by abischof ( 255 ) <alex&spamcop,net> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @03:57AM (#5363831) Homepage
    I have a Palm Vx at the moment, but I'm finding that I use Plucker [plkr.org] more and more, which I figure would really benefit from a color screen. So, if you happen to be selling your (color) Palm, drop me a line :). (Plucker is a free offline web browser for the Palm)

  • ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW (Score:4, Informative)

    by mildness ( 579534 ) <bill@bam p h .com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @05:33AM (#5364001) Homepage

    1. Get a keyboard. I've had different PDA's since the first Palm. My tests show I'm 3x faster with the little keyboard (I can't do a little "v" in grafitti so save my life). I've read that Jot has even more keystrokes than Grafitti.

    2. Palm OS is everywhere. If you want to use off-the-shelf apps from avantgo, etc get a Palm.

    3. The smaller the better. Who cares how cool your xyz toy is if you need a backpack, dorkyass beltloop holster or little purse (like my buds with they Sonys) to carry the thing around with you?

    4. If your goal is hacking, just like the desktop, get linux. If you want it to solve problems with a minimum of fuss go with Palm OS

    5. Color is nice for pictures of family, etc. Greyscale is fine otherwise IMHO.

    Cheers,

    Bill

  • Palm Zire.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Chicane-UK ( 455253 ) <chicane-ukNO@SPAMntlworld.com> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @06:41AM (#5364096) Homepage
    I recently managed to persuade my boss to buy me a Palm Zire (yes, I realise that they are cheap, but he also bought me a Sun Blade 100 early last year so I think he has about spent all he is going to on me!) - I was asking about one because I am terrible at keeping notes on little scraps of paper all over my desk, then consequently losing or throwing them away.

    I was expecting the Zire, at its entry level price, to be bulky and under-featured - but nothing could be further from the truth. Its very small & light and rammed with cool features. There are a few games on there to keep you entertained (heck, I even downloaded Lemmings for it.. I remeber when that was a flagship game for the PC!!) and lots of useful applications to keep memo's, phone numbers, appointments and more.

    Worth every penny.. :)
  • Built-in Bluetooth(TM) technology allows you to pair your CLIÉ(TM) handheld with other Bluetooth(TM) compatible peripheral devices. HotSync® your CLIÉ(TM) handheld with a Bluetooth(TM) enabled VAIO® PC, exchange data or play games between CLIÉ(TM) handhelds using Bluetooth(TM), or connect to the Internet via mobile phone with built-in Bluetooth(TM) -- all wirelessly (Bluetooth(TM) compatible peripherals sold separately and internet service provider required)! These are only a few of the possibilities.

    Good(TM) to(TM) know(TM) that(TM) there's(TM) a(TM) hardware(TM) review(TM) site(TM) out(TM) there(TM) that(TM) has(TM) some shred of(TM) journalistic(TM) integrity!(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)

  • Still waiting... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TV-SET ( 84200 ) <leonidNO@SPAMmamchenkov.net> on Sunday February 23, 2003 @10:08AM (#5364430) Homepage Journal
    I am still waiting for a device which I will want to buy. The trend apparently is to develop mobile phones into PDAs, while, IMHO, it is so easy to stick a GSM phone into PDA.

    Mobiles are sucky PDAs: they have small screen, ugly keyboard, and no expansion slots. ;) PDAs are on the other hand are perfect for...hmm...PDAing. The only thing that is missing is a GSM voice connection.

    At the moment I see a PDA with GSM and QWERTY keyboard that will go into my pocket, I'll buy the damn thing.

    • Then get a Visor and a VisorPhone. It's a GSM phone as a springboard module. Not sure if they still sell them, but you could probably pick up one used on eBay.

      They didn't sell too well because they were expensive and somewhat bulky.
  • I know this is somewhat OT, but how goes current integration of Palm and GPS? That is, I know you can buy an amazing little GPS tab [holux.com.tw] for a Palm that plugs into the CF slot, and that you can buy some map software [fugawi.com] that looks to have better European street info than Garmin's own maps.

    But do they work well together? If I use the CF slot for the GPS can I no longer add memory those maps will want so much?

    Should I just hope to get the Garmin Palm device [garmin.com] (which is not out yet) before I travel this spring, and hope it lets me use third party maps?

    And what about those GPS tabs? It looks like at least some of them need to be factory serviced in order to switch between WAAS [faa.gov] and Europe's experimental equivalent of EGNOS [pocketgps.co.uk] .

    Help a fellow electronics fetishist!

    • Re:Palm and GPS? (Score:3, Informative)

      by biglig2 ( 89374 )
      I believe there are people having sucess connecting Bluetooth enabled GPS's to a Palm, that is worth a look. And of course cable connections are well established.

      As you observed, using the SD slot (it's not a CF slot on the Palm made devices!) prevents you storing stuff on an SD card.

      I suspect the Garmin will prove to be a tremendous piece of kit, though, so if you can get hold of one I'd suggest it is worth serious consideration.

  • Why do US publications not REVIEW? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gilgongo ( 57446 ) on Sunday February 23, 2003 @05:27PM (#5366391) Homepage Journal
    This question is a bit OT, but it's been annoying me for a while: why do so few US websites and print magazines seem to independently review products like they do in Europe? All the PDAs on show here just have re-hashed press releases to read. I could just go the manufacturer's websites and read that. Christ it must be boring to write as well.

    Are there any sites that say things like "After three weeks of using the Zarus, I was ready to catapult it into a tree" or "The Clie is wonderful, but if you want to use it more than 10 feet from a power socket, forget it."

    Granted, there aren't many European publications that go to the extreme of actually panning a product, but if it's fair comment, they will. Most at least try to inject some insight into comparative reviews, however terrified their editors might be of losing advertising revenue.

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