Buying a Small, Light Linux Notebook Computer? 1048
"I have no Windows software and will not be running any, not even via WINE. I have no
desire to go through the hassle of purchasing software I'm not going to use and
then fighting to get a token rebate that doesn't actually equate to the cost of a Windows license. Nor am I interested in buying a machine that was purchased with a Windows license, and simply having Windows erased with no refund given.
So far I've found iDot Computers, who will sell laptops with no OS installed. Unfortunately, their lightest,
smallest offering is a hefty 2.8kg brick, 3cm bigger than the iBook in width and depth. What I really want is something comparable to a Toshiba Libretto or Sony VAIO R505--except that neither of those companies want to sell me a machine without Windows.
I'm sure plenty of Slashdot readers have faced the same problem--what's the solution?"
Emperor Linux (Score:4, Informative)
The benefit? You get laptops with full knowledge of exactly what does and what doesn't work under linux.
The catch? You pay the same (or more) as you would in the high street and don't get the shiny Windows CD.
Frankly
Linux laptops (Score:1, Informative)
Powerbook? (Score:5, Informative)
buy used. (Score:5, Informative)
just be careful when buying used- I made the mistake of buying from a tradeshow [homelinux.net] and it took 2 months before I could get a usable one.
I did end up with a gateway solo2150 which is working pretty well.
if you're not playing games, a 600 mhz will work fine. I have kde 3.1 and openoffice on debian and it runs with little lag.
powernotebooks.com (Score:5, Informative)
windows tax not required. was in a slashdot article awhile back.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:money back (Score:3, Informative)
Google 'windows refund'--it's a work in progress with little result so far.
HP is not the way (Score:5, Informative)
Quick links (Score:3, Informative)
I have an answer. (Score:4, Informative)
why not go with the iBook (Score:4, Informative)
maybe you could find some usful info here too http://www.linux-laptop.net/
Re:money back (Score:2, Informative)
Buy used. (Score:5, Informative)
Since you've ruled out the iBook, I'd suggest that you look for a laptop that meets your requirements on the used market (eBay, local want ads, computer resellers, outlets that deal in refurbished and formerly leased equipment). Someone else will have already paid the Windows Tax for you, and the money you save will more than compensate for the time you'll have to spend scraping Windows off the hard drive and installing your operating system of choice.
k.
You could try X-Technology (Score:3, Informative)
P4 2.4Ghz/512mb DR/40GB/DVD/CDRW/USB 2.0/FireWire/56K/LAN/15" TFT for ~1200
No OS, no brand name. I have no idea if they are good are not, but they look decent.
-Jon
We recently had a thread like this in c.o.l.misc (Score:5, Informative)
For more information about Linux on laptops, go to the web page about Linux on laptops [linux-on-laptops.com]; help can be found in the Usenet newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc [google.com] or comp.os.linux.hardware [google.com]
- Sam
Neocomputers (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a link to the custom laptop page. [neocomputers.com]
800 x 600? Nooooo! (Score:2, Informative)
800x600? You can't be serious! The high end of 1991? I remember the rollout of 800x600, between VGA and 1024x768. Yes, there was some XGA nonsense in there, but we got to 1K pretty fast, and that's rock bottom ever since.
Look, I'll admit the current pixel dance is sort of goofy, with 2Kx1920 or whatever, but 800x600? A reasonable low end is 1280x1024.
Ob disclosure: my Dell Inspiron 8000 is 1600x1200, and yes those dots get a bit tiny sometimes. But I dig it.
Fujitsu Lifebook (Score:3, Informative)
There are also a number of 2-4 pound laptops from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.; that's what I have right now. They are considerably lighter than the iBooks, have comparable or better battery life, and are much, much faster. They often don't include the CD/DVD in the main laptop, but frankly, I prefer that choice; it's easy to plug a bus-powered CD/DVD into the USB2 or FW port.
You will effectively not find a notebook where you don't pay the Windows tax: the big manufacturers just bundle it that way, and if anything goes wrong with the machine, they will have you run stuff under Windows before even accepting it for warranty return (I have been there). Apple is no better: you can't get their HW without their OS, and they won't even support their laptops connecting to a non-Apple wireless access point.
Re:money back (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe this has changed, but when you buy a new, prebuilt PC, do you have to click an EULA anyway? Your "acceptance" of the EULA comes not as a product of clicking a button marked 'I Agree', but as a mere result of your using the OEM product. Thus, most refund sites stress that in order to get a refund, you must not boot into the preinstalled copy of Windows, not even a single time. They will tell you in no uncertain terms not to turn the PC on until you have boot disks for Linux/*BSD/whatever inserted into it.
DELL Inspiron with Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Couple links... (Score:3, Informative)
You might also take a look at Los Alamos Computers [laclinux.com]. They aren't as light as you want, but they might be an option.
QLI [qlilinuxpc.com] is also an option, but weight is an issue again.
Finally, Emperor Linux [emperorlinux.com] has some very light looking machines
Good luck.. I don't have any experience with any of these companies except for Micron PC.. You might do a quick search on google next time...
Re:money back (Score:5, Informative)
Technically the oem pays for Windows. This is why its hard to return it. Yes, I relize that most OEM's just pass the cost to the consumer but its not that much since OEM's buy in bulk.
Dell, HP, and Toshiba also get massive bulk discounts in laptop parts which makes up for the price. Dell's are cheap because of this. Go to their website and look at entry level pc's for just $700. Its cheaper to buy a Windows based laptop from Dell and reformat the drive and install Linux then to buy from some small no name company that specialised in Linux but does not get bulk pricing.
Just pay the extra $25 dollars. IBM only pays $15 per copy of Windows for each pc from what I read back in the anti trust trial when ms strong armed it to kill os/2. The price has gone up for Windows alot but its no big deal and its nothing compared to the amount Windows cost in a store. I am sure the money saved from buying from a big outlet is probably hundreds of dollars so more money is being saved.
Or if you hate ms and refuse to support them go buy a powerbook from apple.
They are pricy but have been known for over a decade to be supperior quality. Apple invented alot of the cool stuff in laptops today. The finger pads on laptops for mouse movements is an example of apple's inventions. You can run Linux on a mac as well as have a big selection of software to choose from with MacOSX. Adobe photoshop, IE, MS-Office, games, etc. Another benefit of the mac is that the linux distro's will work better and be less buggy then intel ones because of the limited hardware. They don't need to support 3,000 peripherals from god knows where. They are less buggy and standard configurations are heavily tested by the mac-linux community. This is one of the arguements still used for Unix over Linux. It is heavily integrated with the hardware.
Custom laptops (Score:2, Informative)
IBM (Score:3, Informative)
They also sell the Thinkpads with Linux.
Re:money back (Score:4, Informative)
Try Fujitsu (Score:2, Informative)
Metamatic - your answer. (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like you want a used machine. I would suggest looking on ebay and/or the computer refurb houses for a machine that is maybe a year old, go with a high quality manufacturer and it could still be under warranty (I personally like Dell, I have three within arms reach of me, counting laptops and my server.)
The only issue I see going with hardware that is a year+ old is the 1394 connection - but if it was top of the line a year ago it should have that connection (my last Latitude C800 did and it was a year and a half old.)
Note that you should be able to find a one year old machine for about half of what it cost new, but remember that today's hardware costs less than top of the line gear did a year ago and is much faster. Based on what I remember, you should be able to get whatever was top of the line a year ago for the same price as the entry level stuff new, but the entry level stuff is going to be about 1.5x as fast as the one year old top of the line machine.
I am not saying it will give you the best bang for the buck, but it will satisify your entire request. Personally I would buy a new entry level machine from Dell (or your favorite company) for about $750 delivered and then toss the XP CD / license in your closet. Add some aftermarket RAM and networking gear and you are all set - for about $900 including the 802.11b.
I just checked, Dell has a laptop (the Inspiron 2650C) on sale for $700 after rebate (yes, rebates suck but I did get mine back
14" screen XGA
128M RAM (www.crucial.com)
20G hd
24x CD
16MB DDR 4X AGP NVIDIA GeForce2 Go(TM)Vid
Floppy
Integrated 56k modem and NIC
1 year warranty.
If you didn't want to jack with the warranty ($150) you could get the 802.11b PCMCIA card and a 802.11b router (I didn't bother to read the details) instead. Brings the price of the system to $850.
Upgrade to a 15" screen for $50.
Nice.
netlux (Score:2, Informative)
They have some decent laptops for cheap. For weight, I seriously doubt that in any way you are going to beat an ibook. You will have to decide, is the size and cost going to beat the weight and possibility of the MS tax.
The netlux machines work well, my brother uses one on a constant basis, but it's really up to you.
Re:probably not Windows-free (Score:5, Informative)
Note: I have no problem with Emporer Linux's business model, and wish them success. However, I don't think they'll meet the submitter's requirement to never pay for Windows.
IBM ThinkPads (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Knoppix. (Score:1, Informative)
try this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Metamatic - your answer. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Windows Tax vs. Apple Tax (Score:3, Informative)
Except that oddly enough, when people compare the price of PC laptops to the price of Apple laptops, they almost invariably compare the lowest-priced PCs they can find to the Apple laptop.
When you compare solid, reliable, long-lasting PC laptops to their Apple equivalents, the "Apple Tax" disappears. If you want to buy a cheap Dell and replace it in 18 months, that's fine, but if you want 3+ years out of your laptop, you'll have a tough time beating an Apple laptop for durability and reliability.
Talk about wierd drivers... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Don't buy a Sony... (Score:2, Informative)
It's not that USB can't work. It's just that the ACPI implementation in the kernel currently sucks rocks, and most Sony laptops seem to use ACPI to assign IRQ's. Add the ACPI patch from the acpi project [sourceforge.net] and all that problem goes away. SuSE 8.1 does that for you, and their kernel maintainer keeps a cutting edge, functional kernel around. The Linux-Sony Mailing Lists [returntonature.com] have all the info needed to get everything working under Linux. Everything.
I have an SRX-87, which is significantly smaller than an iBook, functioning completely and without exception with Mandrake 9.0 and a patched vanilla kernel. Firewire, USB, 802.11b, DVD - the works. Wait - I haven't tried the modem. I hear it works too, though.
It's the same thing that Emperor Linux rebadge, and lots cheaper from BestBuy.
I'm very happy with mine.
Re:My experience with Dell refund (Score:3, Informative)
You might want to re-read that EULA. OEM licenses are not only not for resale, they're tied to the hardware. It doesn't matter if you booted it or not - your co-worker did, and he's running an unlicensed copy. It sounds like you got the better of the deal.
"Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated product and may only be used with the HARDWARE. If the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by new HARDWARE, you may not use the SOFTWARE."
Re:Fujitsu P2000 Series (Score:2, Informative)
Most of the keys are in decent location, and caps lock, which becomes my ctrl, is nice and wide. Still, whenever I can, I attach my usb ibm kbd.
Nuisances are the lack of serial or infrared. I haven't checked lately to see whether there are linux drivers for my usb to serial port, without which I can't sync my palm...
Other nuisance is a *severe* vulnerability to static electricity. Ground yourself before typing, or you'll hear the disk spin down for a few seconds, then back up. It stays up fine, but your, I mean my
Re:Powerbook 12" (Score:2, Informative)
ASUS Laptops (Score:1, Informative)
It seems that ASUS laptops can be bought without an OS. Hope this helps
Re:money back (Score:1, Informative)
CNET Notebook section (Score:5, Informative)
My take on notebooks (currently); wait. Banias [tomshardware.com] is around the corner (March 12 last I heard) bringing +3 hour battery time coupled with excellent performance (it's easy to find slower laptops with significantly longer battery times though). Cost will be an issue (if you're looking at sub-$1500), so I'd suggest waiting even longer after Banias. Having performance, price and portability all in one laptop is about to become possible though; all you need to do is hold off from purchasing for a bit more.
Japan Rush (Score:3, Informative)
So don't pay!
Re:Fujitsu Lifebook (Score:4, Informative)
I own two Macintoshes. One of them didn't work with my non-Apple AP. Everything else did (Windows, Linux). Apple tech support told me there was nothing they could do--"We don't support connecting to non-Apple 802.11b access points, it may or may not work. You could bring it in to a dealer that has an airport set up to see whether it's a hardware problem."
Yes, Apple tech support is generally good and helpful. Their folks seem to be smarter than those at PC companies. But there are limits to what they support (and what they can support). And they will almost certainly not support Linux on an iBook either.
So, if you want to bash me, at least know WTF you are talking about.
Re: Apple *did* have the first touchpad (Score:3, Informative)
Half right, half wrong...
Apple didn't invent it, they licensed it from George Gerpheide. Apple was the first to market a laptop with a touchpad.
If you want a source [azstarnet.com] for this tidbit, click away.
Not a problem because... (Score:3, Informative)
When using an external keyboard it's more of a pain - but then you also usually have an external USB mouse with two buttons (which I do). I really don't find it annoying to switch between the two, and in fact more and more I find myself away from the dock and just using the computer wherever I am (since I have wireless almost every I sit around now).
Re:Metamatic - your answer. (Score:5, Informative)
That's my GUI... (Score:1, Informative)
bb4win [desktopian.org], which mimics the black box look and feel and is even compatible with the many existing black box styles.
While LiteStep [litestep.info] (one of the oldest windows shells) mimics the NeXT OS/Window Manager and has thousands of themes (and it's even GPL).
If you use either of these or one of the many other shells (see Shell Extension City [shellcity.net]) along with WindowBlinds [windowblinds.net] you won't even know you're using Windows (you can even make it look like KDE or OS X if you want).
The point of all this is to say you're not stuck with the Windows interface, the start button, the task bar, the clock, or that annoying grouping feature of the programs menu. And I think MS has even embraced this some-what with an actual entry for "custom user interface" in gpedit.msc (Win2k and XP pro only). ... So stop complaining about the Windows interface.
On the other hand if you were talking about the much complained about "fisher price" interface you can turn all that !@#$! off, albeit in no less then 4 different places (or crack open the regedit).
----------
Re:the dumb answer... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Don't you pay anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft site licenses usually require companies to pay for machines which don't have Windows on them.
Depends on the license that companies have, but not generally true.
----- -----
I can only imagine that Microsoft makes the same requirements on computer vendors when they sell machines without Windows, or with some other OS. So even if you buy a new machine without Windows, you will probably still be lining Microsoft's pockets buying such a machine.
Not true anymore. Microsoft USED to force OEMs to pay OS licenses for every PC shipped, regardless of whether every PC actually has Windows installed on it.
Microsoft and the U.S. DOJ signed a consent decree in 1994 that halted this 'per processor' license fee (among other practices alleged to be improper).
OEMs pay licenses only for machines shipped.
Now, between volume rates, advertising allowances, joint marketing & partnering arrangements, licenses for other products, etc, etc,. MS still has incredible licensing flexibiliy, and due to its market control, massive power over those OEMs. But no licenses for every machine shipped.
The P2000 does come equipped with firewire. (Score:3, Informative)
Here's a direct link [fujitsupc.com].
Also, here is a very good user discussion forum concerning the P2000 laptop, which actually has a seperate forum for the linux users, so you can check up on what you can expect:
http://www.leog.net/fujp_forum/ [leog.net]
On a sidenote, I can say that Fijutsu will *not* ship any laptop without the windows license. In fact, when you send in the system for repair and they need to replace the hard drive (which contains the repair image), you have to pay for a new license.
12" G4 (Score:2, Informative)
it _is_ expensive, but if it's want you really want then it's worth it. Also, don't forget that the
GHz rating for P4-M laptops is a load of crock. My
Compaq EVI N800v (1.7GHz P4-M) spends most of its time running at 1.1 GHz because it's running on batteries. Also, if battery life is really important, then you you'll find the Macs hard to beat.
Re:Go For The PowerBook (Score:4, Informative)
The "mouse" is a touchpad, isn't it? Many PC touchpad drivers have a feature that tapping in the upper-right corner is a right click. Hasn't somebody made such a driver for Macs or for Linux on Mac?
I don't own a Mac or Powerbook, but I wish I did.
IBM or Dell. Call for no OS (Score:5, Informative)
If you, however, call them on the phone and talk to one of their sales reps, you can have the bundled software removed (including the OS).
I would recommend a Dell, or if you have the money for it, an IBM Thinkpad. I love my ThinkPad.
You just have to talk to a real person, which I understand is sometimes difficult for some computer literate people, but you have to work to get what you want in life.
Re:the not so dumb answer... (Score:3, Informative)
- A non-apple notebook depreciates 1/(2^n) where n is the time in years you bought it.
- It is better to buy a really good quality one, as they are much better put together.
I develop on linux, but can't wean myself off editplus (although I like kate a lot). I have just bought a couple of toshiba 7200s for about $600. With the money I have saved, they now have 802.11,10/100, and 320MB, 40GB. Ultralight magnesium frame, made in japan quality, and still the biggest screen on an ultralight (13.3 XGA). Both dualboot 2000/7.3. One mainly 2000, one mainly 7.3, but redundancy is useful. And buying second hand means you are not paying anything to the he-who-cannot-be-named.Re:make a statement- give to GNU and EFF (Score:3, Informative)
Stay away from the R505 (Score:5, Informative)
I just replaced a R505 with a 12" PowerBook. In every respect, the Apple is the superior machine:
The R505 series of Vaio feel very very cheap. The nice metal cover that had been on the older series Vaios has been replaced by a run-of-the-mill piece of plastic. After a year, the screen hinge barely works, and the power adapter socket will only make an adequate connection when I hold it just right.
On paper, the R505 is smaller, but it doesn't feel any smaller. The way the 12"PB is hinged makes it open in a very compact way - unlike the R505 which seems to need a great deal more room to fully open. On a train or plane, the 12" PB can be held on the tray table with the screen at a reasonable angle even with the seat reclined in front of you. No chance of doing this with the Vaio.
Finally, the PB12" is much much smaller when you consider its relative size with the DVD drive installed. On the Vaio, you need to plug the unit into its base to get the DVD drive - doubling the size and weight of the thing. With the Apple, it's just there, and just works.
You say you're fine with a PCMCIA 802.11 solution, but have you really used one of these for any length of time? The antenna portion of the card makes for an awkward fit - especially compared with the elegance of the Mac's built-in airport.
Don't get me started on OSX. You want to run Linux why? Honestly, with X11 installed within OSX, I'm finding it hard to find reasons to run Linux.
Are you sure? (Score:5, Informative)
Asus S1 (Score:3, Informative)
Got everything you wanted, is thin & light and still got a 13,3" screen and you can purchase it without a OS. A internal WLAN nic is available,too.
Linux seems to work without (big) problems: Howto from Linux-on-laptops [www.diku.dk]
Re:Talk about wierd drivers... (Score:3, Informative)
Just buy the iBook (Score:2, Informative)
Sony Vaio PCG-R600HMKD (Score:2, Informative)
It's light (without the docking station
I (eventually) settled on redhat 8.0. You have to boot off the first CD, then do a network (http/ftp/nfs) install due to the firewire CD drive..
You'll then want to get the 2.4.20 kernel, and apply the ACPI patch from http://acpi.sourceforge.net/
You'll also need the updated i830 driver from intel at http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/linux/g
A pretty good wireless howto can be found at http://www.cowplop.com/writing/pcg-srx77/.
Anyhow, a week on, it's really shaping up. I'm refining a HOWTO which I'll post and get linked from http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/sony.html real soon. If anyone's wanting to get one of these up and running ASAP, contact me via my website (link above) and I'll email you the howto as it stands.
refurb (Score:3, Informative)
TransMeta (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.antelopetech.com
http://www.transmeta.com
Re:they're smaller (Score:5, Informative)
You better shut up if your only experience with the iBook came from watching a demo. I am using OS X on a 700 MHz iBook for programming C++ and Java, browsing, playing music, editing graphics, etc, and it feels faster than a Sony Vaio with more than twice clock rate.
The $999 iBook comes with a proper 3D card (ATI Radeon 7500) and 16 MB dedicated VRAM, while some of much more expensive Vaio models use cheap Intel integrated graphics with only shared VRAM. Personally, I wouldn't touch a Dell with a 10" pole, having known 3 people all had discovered serious problem with their Dell laptops within weeks of purchasing.
While there are Wintel laptops lighter than the iBook, none has longer battery life and full features. Another huge advantage of the Apple portables is that they all come free with much more best-of-class software than any of the Windows or Linux machines: iPhotos, iMovies, iTunes, iCal, iSync, iChat, and so on.
If you are a programmer and loves play with Unix and open standards, you simply can't get a better deal than Mac OS X. For instance, OS X comes with gcc 3.1 enhanced by Apple to handle Objective C / C++ on top of standard C / C++, and there are dozens of other tools that allow you to write and debug native Carbon, Cocoa, QuickTime, OpenGL, or terminal applications. Many popular open source applications (such as Perl, Ruby, Apatche, X11) are preloaded, and others (like MySql, PostgreSQL) can be downloaded and installed with a few mouse clicks. Project Builder and Interface Builder are free and much more powerful than tools on any other Unix platforms including Linux. In contrast, MS Visual Studio.NET costs up to $3000.
Re:I smell a rat (Score:1, Informative)
You're probably right about zealotry being confined to those who can afford it though.
--Zirtix, not logged in.
Re: Apple *did* have the first touchpad (Score:3, Informative)
They can also operate as a mouse button. Tap. Tap and drag, etc. Another Apple first
This, to my mind, is the absolute worst feature about them. I hate this. Reason: I'm typing away, and want to move the mouse. So I go and move my thumbs to the pad to move the pointer. Result: I've just clicked somewhere I don't want to click. If I'm lucky, I can back out of what I just unintentionally clicked on and didn't close something.
Any input device where you have to be very, very careful to touch it gingerly so as not to accidentally give input you didn't mean to give is a poorly designed input device, in my opinion.
-Rob
Small Light Computers (Score:1, Informative)
Tiny Laptop for Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I smell a rat (Score:2, Informative)
the Twinhead N1400 sold by the "Linux Only" Laptop shop http://linuxlaptops.zoovy.com/product/TW_N1400 has a "Infrared Port (SIR/FIR)" which is not supported under Linux (at least until someone hacks a driver). not to mention the "Optional Built-in GPRS module"
the laptop works out of the box (except irda, gprs) with all newer distributions and is a fine machine (sitting in front of one of those rigt now -- runnning FreeBSD of course
Try ASL http://www.aslab.com/ (Score:3, Informative)
ASL Linux is great. I have a Monarch laptop. It is a ~3.5 lbs with a nice XGA 13 inch screen. Detachable base for CD/battery/floppy adds another 3 lbs. Mine is pretty old, but I asume the new ones are pretty nice. Good service, only install Windows if you pay extra. They set up partitions however you want, even networking. My laptop has 1 pc card slot, I use it for wireless at home.
I have bought a few other orders from these guyst (desktop systems). They will gladly dual boot your system and configure to your needs. They have been around for a while as well. I think I bought my first desktop from them four years back.
Ed
Re:HP is not the way (Score:1, Informative)
call them back, I am sure that you may get the truth, which is, when you service an hp notebook, they will wipe out the harddrive and install the OS that was originally included with the unit, not unlike most others I imagine. This will be winXP or whatever OS and that cannot be avoided and paying for windows from the main retailer cannot be avoided by normal channels but at least you have hardware warranty as it applies. Hp has taken a stance that linux can break the notebook which is possible if you enable broken ACPI allowing the notebook to run without a thermal policy and thus without a fan or passive cooling control which will toast a unit. But this is probably what lead to the conclusion that HP voids warranties based on alternative software which is far from the truth. Hp doesnt care what OS you use and thier method of determining customer damage is quite relaxed.
if you want my personal opinion (I just know you are waiting for another one), get an omnibook 500 or 6000 at ebay for under 1000$, the support for these is growing very quickly
wont be long before linux supports stable docking/undocking, wireless disable/enable mode and volume/multimedia buttons
as for the devices all work in linux except the 3com winmodem and speedstep on the processor (it uses a bx northbridge) but linux on this notebook is nearly completey support at least as far as options are concerned just dont listen to a rep without calling back or calling tech support (good chance you will get me). OS does NOT matter to HP.
Not Just Apple. (Score:2, Informative)
Buy an off-lease Dell (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think you're to beat a 12 inch iBook or Powerbook for small and light, though, and if "[p]erformance isn't a major concern," why are you worried about it enough to rule out a Mac?
Qli Linux PCs (Score:5, Informative)
Qli [qlilinuxpc.com] sells new laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their prices range from one thousand to over two, for a fully loaded machine. They don't sell any that are tiny, like the Vaio, but there are other [laclinux.com] companies [emperorlinux.com] that do sell refurbished laptops and small form factor [emperorlinux.com] laptops with no Windows tax. I chose Qli because I was looking for a particular feature set, and because one of their installation options is Gentoo [gentoo.org], which is my current favorite distribution.
I got an 1800MHz, 512MB (2GB max), 15.1" LCD, 20Gb, DVD/CDRW laptop for a shade over $1800. It has onboard ethernet, three USB (one of which is USB 2.0), onboard firewire, and a single CardBus slot. It was, practically, the perfect configuration I was looking for; the price was reasonable, and (as I said) they offered Gentoo as an install option.
My experience with Qli has been good. I agreed that they would install Gentoo 1.4, which is technically still beta, and this was Qli's first 1.4 laptop, so I had to do some work after the machine arrived to get it fully configured. I would expect that if you chose Gentoo 1.2, Mandrake, or Redhat, it would arrive fully configured. Qli provides a large number of installation options, and money you pay for the distribution of your choice (which varies) goes to the distribution.
The best thing about Qli, IME, was the customer service. The staff are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and are good about responding to support requests. They have a good understanding of kernel configurations, from which kernel modules are required to support which features to various configuration options.
I'm also very happy with the hardware. Although it isn't yet supported by Linux, I was pleasantly surprised that the laptop came with an unadvertised MMC/SD slot.
There are a couple of hangups with my particular hardware, but none of it is Qli's fault. The laptop is entirely ACPI, and ACPI support in Linux is immature. Consequently, I can't suspend the laptop (!) -- yet. OpenGL is proved to be a bear to get working, but this is due to my choice of distributions; apparently, Redhat on this laptop has full accellerated GL support out of the box. There is an onboard WinModem, but we know about those.
In summary, I can recommend Qli. You need to evaluate your own requirements, and then send them an email before you buy. They'll give you status reports on various configurations and recommend a system for you.
[Disclaimer] I do not work for Qli, and I don't receive any compensation for recommending them. My only relationship with Qli is that I've recently purchased a laptop from them.
Vobis, or Dell. (Score:3, Informative)
Vobis (www.vobis.de) sells blank machines. They come with "PC DOS 2000" preinstalled which is just a lame excuse for not violating the MS gag agreement. The XP preinstalled models are 100.- more expensive.
Dell doesn't claim they do, but for corporate customers they do sell some of their machines without preinstalled OS, and they are cheaper than the regular ones. At least I found this out when I phoned Dell Germany some months ago... they actually transferred me to somebody who claimed he'd be able to sell me a laptop without pre-installed software.
Perhaps that helps. Otherwise, buy a Powerbook. ;)
If all you want is the Hardware... (Score:2, Informative)
If you don't want to pay the windows tax (Or the HP/Dell/etc. markup). Go to a source that is closer to the manufatcurer. For example, Compal is one of the larger actual laptop manufacturers - they supply HP, and toshiba, among others. If you want their hardware, find a smaller VAR for their Compal. E.g. Sceptre, Chembook, etc. All the majors do is just change the looks slightly and bundle the hardware with software and support.
The smaller the VAR, the smaler the markup (generally). You can configure the machine as you like, and you can buy them without an OS.
That being said, my most recent laptop purchase was from www.discountlaptops.com - and I didn't pay the windows tax. There are many of places you can find *just* the hardware - you just have to look.
Prostar Laptops (Score:1, Informative)
The 2794 is $1194 with 1.6 GHz P4, 256MB, 40GB HDD, 64MB Shared AGP video, 14.1" 1024x768, DVD, 4 USB, 1 IEEE 1394, Modem, ethernet. No OS Standard, optional Windows XP ($75). May be too heavy at 6.5 pounds.
There are other places that sell these, so might find a better deal if you look around. I've seen these rebranded and sold in local computer shops (with XP on them standard, but could get no OS for less $$).
Re:the dumb answer... (Score:3, Informative)
So yes, if you plan to run YDL, get your machine through TerraSoft. But my personal thought is that YDL is one of the least appealing Linux distros you'll find. Debian has more recent versions of some packages (my personal grudge: Ruby -- YDL has this at 1.6.4, whereas everyone else has this at 1.6.7+). YDL also has a much slimmer list of available packages than most distros. Gentoo has a perfectly usable PPC distribution for those that truly desire the full Linux experience.
Personally I can't imagine purchasing Apple hardware just to run Linux. If you allow non-Free software on your system, you'll be continually disappointed by which things are not available as binaries for your PPC-based system. Of course, if you are okay with non-Free software, you might be just as happy running OS X. But if you are a hardcore Linux fan or Free Software zealot, Apple hardware is no better than buying any old Windows system in terms of the extra expense.
Re:Stay away from the R505 (Score:3, Informative)
Contrast that with Apple- they have lots of capable places where people can fix your machine while you wait (don't get me started about how amazing the Powerbook triage unit at Tekserve in Manhattan is...) and if you have to send it back, they do a great job turning things around pronto. They know that not having your computer is a big deal and do a lot to minimize the time you are without it.
notebook linux (Score:3, Informative)
In looking for a replacement I called prostar and they said they would sell me a machine without an OS and give me a discount of $70.
The machine I have is pretty heavy, but they do have some lighter models.
They're quite a bit cheaper than Dell, HP, etc..
http://www.pro-star.com/
Re:Stay away from the R505 (Score:2, Informative)
See my howto: http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/t/j/tjt148/vaio
laptops for GNU/Linux users (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.laclinux.com/cgi-bin/laptop.py [laclinux.com]
sells laptops preinstalled with a variety of GNU/LInux distributions, and MS Windows is optional. They come in a variety of sizes.
By the way with regard to the "Microsoft Tax", as far as I know, there really is no such thing. Companies that force customers to have an MS OS installed in their new system are usually following the requirements of an agreement they have with Microsoft. By the agreement, they get MS OSs very cheap, hence they do not have to add $100+ to each system to recover the cost of the MS OS. There are other requirements too -- e.g. It is not allowed to display the price of the MS OS as a part of the full system price. The MS OS must be presented as an "integral part of the computer system, without which, the computer is unusable". Ya right.
YDL (Score:2, Informative)
Yellow Dog Linux [yellowdoglinux.com] is an awesome Linux distribution for the Mac and works quite well. I have my laptop set up with dual-boot into YDL and OS X. You get the best of both worlds. Boot into Linux all the time and then into OS X when you just want the dang thing to work. ;)
Also, the people at TerraSoft (makers of YDL) are also Apple resellers, but get this: They are preinstalled with YDL! I would definitely check this out. If they are selling the 12in PowerBook, order it from them. Then you will get a brand new MiniPowerBook with Linux preinstalled. Snazzy!
light linux laptop w/no MS tax (Score:2, Informative)