Keyboard Layouts for the 21st Century? 1044
jules asks: "Trying to do some programming on an iBook the other day brought to my attention the fact that despite the constant improvements to the design of computer hardware and software, the keyboards we use are still a throwback to the early 1980s. I mean - my Mac doesn't have room for page up/down or home/end keys, but it devotes a whole key to a sort of double-S shape that I will never press. And my PC keyboards all waste plastic on a backwards-apostrophe key and a scroll-lock (+ LED!), while functions that you use all the time, such as switching between windows, cut/copy/paste, back/forwards, undo/redo etc, all have to double-up with other keys.. Have any organizations actually tried to re-invent the keyboard recently? (..not counting the manufacturers who stick a few 'multimedia' keys along the top for consumer PCs). Would this be doomed to failure because of the tens of thousands of legacy apps that expect things to be the way they are? What sort of keys would you include in your fantasy keyboard layout?" It's not just the keys on your keyboard that are important, it's also how you arrange them. What kind of keyboard arrangements might we see in the future?
Only one true keyboard (Score:1, Informative)
Xmodmap (Score:2, Informative)
Chair mounted keyboards... (Score:1, Informative)
Last time I checked, they were doing a lot of research on chair mounted split keyboards [cornell.edu]
Another split keyboard [stanford.edu]
Split hanging keyboard where the arms are straight down helped by gravity [thecraftstudio.com]
On a side note:
Did you miss out on this good post and all the replies? Check them out... [slashdot.org]
Re:where do i buy? (Score:2, Informative)
I rearanged the keys on one and am learning Dvorak in my spare time.
The reason plus, Fujitsu 4725 is AWESOME (Score:5, Informative)
So what do I think is the best keyboard I've used and wouldn't bother trying to improve it? I've used everything from a VIC-20, TRS-80 keyboard, to those old IBM electronic typewriters, to a Fujitsu 4725 PS/2.
The Fujitsu cost me $70(CDN) and I swear it's the best keyboard I could've purchased. Not because it's the good ol' QWERTY layout with a nice big backslash right below the backspace (where it DAMN WELL belongs,) and not because it's the same layout that everyone's been using for decades (and is most comfortable with and thus fastest with,) and not because it's so indestructible it'd probably work well as a bludgeoning weapon in case I were ever attacked in my room:
No, not for all that. What makes this keyboard better than any other I've so far used is that this Fujitsu has *perfect* key action. It's clicky--but soft enough that it just *begs* you to type as fast as you can. It can take all the pounding you can dish out, and the tactile and soft audible feedback make it a real pleasure to work with.
Thank you Fujitsu, for making REAL keyboards!
Re:Sys Req (Score:5, Informative)
IIRC, the SysRq key was introduced with the 286 protected mode. It was thought that this key would provide access to operating system functions in that mode while a regular app is running.
It never served any real purpose.
About that strange "double-S shape" sign (Score:2, Informative)
> but it devotes a whole key to a sort of double-S shape that I will never press.
That would be the paragraph sign [symbols.com]. It's used in law.
Re:Hopefully, (Score:2, Informative)
Microsoft Office Keyboard & clones. (Score:3, Informative)
The Microsoft Office keyboard has app-fwd and app-back keys, as well as dedicated cut, copy, and paste. Plus, it shows the most common uses of the F-keys, instead of 'F3', it says 'Open'. Plus, it has a scroll wheel, for those who want to scroll a few lines at a time without using the mouse. Plus, things like having an extra backspace (as well as open and close parenthesis) above the number pad. You can click here [microsoft.com] for Microsoft's page on it.
There are a few companies that make clones of this keyboard now, complete with scroll wheel. I don't know the names of any of the clones, all of the ones I have seen are by very generic companies.
Re:Sys Req (Score:5, Informative)
For example, on Linux kernels with system debugging enabled, you can use it to force the machine to sync disks, reboot, dump debugging info out the serial port, etc. On a Sun box, you use the equivalent key to drop into the BIOS (which includes a CLI and lisp).
Re:Sys Req (Score:5, Informative)
You can do useful things like sync your disk before you have to power cycle the machine. Or, kill all processes on the current VT.
--
Re:"Backwards Apostrophe"? (Score:5, Informative)
It looks like you and all the people who have replied so far also aren't *nix users. The ` key serves a very important function.
In the shell, whatever is between `'s is executed and replaced with the output.
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:We don't need new keyboards... we need a Win32 (Score:2, Informative)
Try this [vim.org]
I know this isn't the same as having a vi interface for Outlook, etc...but I'm in love with it.
Re:Cording (Score:5, Informative)
Re:where do i buy? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Back tick? (Score:1, Informative)
Logitech Elite Keyboard (Score:3, Informative)
Review of Logitech Elite Keyboard (scroll midway-down for a big pic) [ign.com]
otherwise a kickass keyboard, been using it for a while.
The analog vol control especially is excellent and one of the few keyboard gimmicks I've seen in the past few years that I actually find myself using a lot.
-fren
What about a smaller keyboard. (Score:3, Informative)
They don't do much in windows either, except piss me off. I HATE playing a game, and hit one of the windows keys, and the damn thing swaps out. You swap back in, and the whole world is sideways. (that means your dead, to all you non-gamers)
I don't use the number pad keys personally. I use the arrows for gaming. I still use my old IBM keyboards without windows keys on most of my windows boxes. They are also just better keyboards. Way better.
I want a keyboard with no windows keys, and a removable keypad button set, making the keyboard narrower. I don't need more keys, I can remember all the combinations I need, I just want a smaller more comfortable keyboard.
Oh, and decent TACTILE feel. God I hate the mooshy feeling of most keyboards, including the Toshiba laptop Im typing on now. Thats the main reason I still salvage old IBM keyboards.
Happens all the time (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Story troll? (Score:2, Informative)
Nope. If someone can't be bothered to learn what the paragraph symbol is, or come up with a better and less ambiguous description of it, they've got no business submitting questions like this. I assumed the poster was an idiot because the post is idiotic. That remains true.
The other points still stand too - how do you add keys for specific functions without bloating the keyboard to impossible size? Meta keys are the only workable solution anyone's found. And s/he's talking about a notebook for goodness sake!
Let alone the backquote key. Ironic that one of the requested functions - window switching - is command-backquote (or tilde), a one-hand press, and logically associated by proximity to command-tab (switch processes).
A lot of thought has already gone into that keyboard (and the shortcuts) by people apparently a lot smarter than the poster. The reasons why the less optimal components of keyboard layout are plainly obvious (retraining people who know the QWERTY layout, industry standardisation). The criticism presented is hopelessly naive at best. It STILL reads like a troll.
A source for new IBM keyboards. (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, it's $50 for one of 'em, but well, those people who like the feel of the keyboards think it's worth it. [and it's heavy enough to beat your annoying co workers with, or even stop a rampaging day-trader].
Oh -- and it's dirt easy to move the letters on the keys, as they letters are on a little cap which it not actually part of the key.
It's useful for playing pranks on people who hunt and peck, or for confusing people and hiding random messages. [and after someone's going away party, I'm short a few 'e's and 's'es, as I had to strip down one keyboard just for the letters].
And speaking of rearranging keyboards -- why is that computer keyboards have the 1-3 row on the number pad at the bottom, while telephones have it at the top?
Computer keypads vs. telephone keypads (Score:5, Informative)
why is that computer keyboards have the 1-3 row on the number pad at the bottom
Computers have 123 on the bottom because adding machines and calculators have 123 on the bottom.
while telephones have it at the top?
Telephones have it 123 on the top because rotary-dial telephones had 123 at the top of the dial.
Re:Sys Req (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Separate keys (Score:1, Informative)
Control was once a meta key (in the terminal days) because it did something out-of-band - like rang the bell, or moved the cursor - instead of just sending another character to the teletype. Arguably it isn't really so meta anymore because everything it can do is contained in ASCII (in essence, the band widened to contain it, mostly because people wanted to remotely control or script things through terminals that were once directly attached).
Unfortunately meta keys are the least standardised part of the keyboard. Macs now have five - Control (if you include it), Shift, Command, Option, and the newest "Fn" function modifier key, which is ironically used partly so other keys (like the function row) can be used for direct control of the hardware (backlight, volume, etc) - analogous to what Control originally was.
The saddest testament to Microsoft's user interface design is that they managed to use their monopoly power to swiftly add not one but two new keys to the standard PC layout, and still managed to do virtually nothing useful with them. At least you can map them to interesting things in X (or to get the option key back if you're using a USB PC keyboard on a Mac - more irony there).
Re:A source for new IBM keyboards. (Score:2, Informative)
Thanks for the pointer! I just dug an old-school IBM keyboard (those all-metal ones) up at work, so nice...just wish it was a little quieter.
My favorite keyboard is an old 101 key "Suntouch" made by Siig [siig.com]. It's got just the right amount of "clickyness" and the right stroke distance for me (just slightly less force needed to depress and just a little smaller stroke distance than the classic IBM one, at least that's how it feels to me). My first one was getting worn out and I found this one at Goodwill, of all places - just about jumped for joy.
Re:Computer keypads vs. telephone keypads (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sys Req -- Legacy Mainframe Key (Score:5, Informative)
Occasionally, just like with web pages, the transaction would somehow get lost in the ether, and the terminal would just sit there forever waiting for a response back from the mainframe which would never come. This is where the SysRq key comes in. You would then press the SysRq key, and the transaction would be cancelled, and control is returned to the terminal.
So, in effect, the SysRq key is the Mainframe equivalent of the "Stop" button on a web browser.
The fact that the SysRq key made it onto IBM PC's shows you just what IBM's original strategy was with the PC market: A "brilliant" mainframe terminal; that is, a terminal capable of doing a little bit more than a simple 327X "Smart" terminal, but ultimately, as far as IBM was concerned, it was still a Mainframe's world, and the PC was ultimately beholden to it.
Re:About that strange "double-S shape" sign (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Inquiring minds want to know.... (Score:3, Informative)
My memory is a little fuzzy on it, but I think it was used to temporarily stop scrolling--kind of like the Ctrl-S and Ctrl-Q keys do in Unix. In a terminal (aka command line) program, sometimes the information would scroll off the screen too fast to read it. Being able to halt the scrolling allows one to read in such situations.
I think FreeBSD uses that key to enable paging up and down a terminal session.
Re:Computer keypads vs. telephone keypads (Score:1, Informative)
No they didn't. [google.com]
Re:where do i buy? (Score:3, Informative)
It's great for programmers because you can actually remap any key to any other key and even program macros directly into the keyboard's memory, so if I have a particular repetitive sequence of commands that I use in my editor, I can temporarily map, say ALT+6 to that sequence of keys. Doing it at the hardware level is great because it works on every OS, etc.
And Dvorak is wonderful too. I don't have to wear wrist braces any more. I can touch type VERY fast. It's a good keyboard design for playing games.
Only thing that bothers me is that laptops still come with QWERTY. I want a Dvorak laptop. I don't want to be pulling keys off and trying to stick them in different places.
Re:Sys Req (Score:3, Informative)
An easy-to-remember saying is "Raising Skinny Elephants Is Utterly Boring"... I found that in one of my Linux books (although I cant remember wich one, so I cant give proper credit... sorry).
The sequence should work even when the system appears to be locked hard. Often, all that is required is Alt-SysRq-I, wich will kill the runaway process(es) that has caused the system to crash.
Re:where do i buy? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:where do i buy? (Score:3, Informative)
And for another layout designed following a statistical frequency analysis, see Maltron [maltron.com]. The Maltron layout not only puts commonly used letters under your fingers, but also places the keys to minimise RSI when you do need to move away from the home row.
Re:Computer keypads vs. telephone keypads (Score:1, Informative)
Scroll lock (Score:2, Informative)
This guy doesn't use command-line much, then? ;o)
Re:where do i buy? (Score:0, Informative)
Learn some history, don't just pass on mis-information!!!!!