Xbox Losses Double, Xbox Shrinks 676
seldo writes "According to ITWorld, losses in the last quarter at Microsoft's Home and Entertainment segment have doubled. From the article: 'The segment, which also includes Microsoft's TV platform and PC games, posted a quarterly operating loss of US$348 million, compared with $180 million in the same period a year ago.'" An anonymous reader
points to similar coverage at news.com, pointing out that the company also reports "profits for Office, and one small note about an undisclosed presumably Japanese company that Microsoft if propping up. So, the big question on my mind is, who is Microsoft secretly holding above water, and why? The fact that they are presumably Japanese, seems to point towards an XBox partner. Could this explain the sudden flood of Sega exclusive games?" Another anonymous reader writes "Microsoft will be showing a smaller sized Xbox at E3 this May. In addition to the smaller size of the hardware, the Xbox Lite will also be integrated with Media2Go allowing Xbox users to download digital content such as music and movies. Wonder what this means for all the current Xbox Mod Chips?"
"Xbox Shrinks.." (Score:2, Funny)
Re:"Xbox Shrinks.." (Score:5, Funny)
No, (Score:2, Funny)
"Xbox Expands" (Score:3, Funny)
Just wait for spam e-mails advertising "Xbox Enlargement Pills". It'll be here soon, seriously.
So is this good or bad? (Score:3, Funny)
Help, tell me what to think!!!
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not necessarily-- could be spending more on R&D.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:5, Funny)
Not necessarily-- could be spending more on R&D.
You mean giving more money to Apple?
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:5, Funny)
Man, I had this vision of a white XBOX controller with only one action button. *shudders*
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, but at least it matches my shoes and my VW.
Morally elite (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, I had the same vision, but without the action button.
In essence, a true Jobs-ified gaming platform for the morally elite.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, but that controller would look really really cool, cost twice as much and have a fierce and vocal fan club.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope not.
While I am not one to engage in schadenfreude for its own sake and I certainly support people's efforts in the area of embedded technology in certain parts of the home, I think these losses are good news on the whole. It's not that Mr. Gates's presence in the video game console market is itself really that important in real life - it's that Microsoft has repeatedly exhibited expansionist tendencies, and it's been pointed out [slashdot.org] that the very name "Xbox" is intended to mean "Anything Box" (ie. the "X" is a cheeky metasyntactic variable [tuxedo.org]).
Not to be a conspiracist, but to me this implies that they have much more on their minds than video games. Imagine if their intention is to further expand beyond the digital media space they've so far occupied and on into real-world objects? Imagine if they make something that could be used to (mis)create toast? I find these prospects very alarming, and thus the news of the Xbox's impending failure can't help but be a little bit of a relief.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:3, Informative)
Who said anything about impending failure? It has been speculated widely that Microsoft is taking at least $100 loss on each XBox, aiming for market penetration, so they can earn the money on game purchases. Even losing 300 million in this particular segment, Microsoft made nearly 3 Billion in profit from Office and Windows. Microsoft is in this for the long run, they are not going to shutdown XBox just because of a growth in operating loss. As a previous poster said, the only thing this points to is an increase in sales. If you are losing $100 per item, and you sell 100 items then you have a loss of $100,000. If you are losing $100 per item and you sell 1,000,000 then you have a loss of $100,000,000. I realize that is overly simplistic, but the point is that I think Microsoft probably views this increase in operating loss as a good thing.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
There is NO DOUBT. The industry thinks that desktops are not the true consumer device and suspect they never will be! The true consumer general purpose computer is expected to be a console, it has to look right for the Stereo/VCR rack, it probably can't have a keyboard shipped with it because people fear the keyboard, but it will probably have to have a way to sneak one on (USB, etc).
This is strongly believed and the only question is When, and What Price Point Wins. 3DO was an early bet, proven too early.
Anyway, there is NO doubt (in my mind at least), that the Xbox is a specific attempt to use the Wintel platform to fill that imagined role as the ubiquitous "general" computer. It's also an attempt to own this platform, which so far they have just taken part in (a major, but not controlling, part), that is to de-commodotize it.
Further, it's the smartest thing about the Xbox. Having to enter through the gaming industry is rough, however, very rough. It might have been easier to just sell the Xbox as a cheap PC to begin with...?
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:2)
If people stopped buying XBOXes, they wouldn't be making money.
Day of the week? (Score:5, Funny)
It's Monday, so we like video games, so this is bad news. But it's February, so this is good news. But the day of the week is odd, so we're supposed to only bash Sony and Blizzard. But the day matches the 2-digit year, so we only especially make fun of Macintosh users. But it was posted AFTER lunch, so this is good news.
Got it?
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:3, Funny)
Close your eyes and think of England.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, yeah (almost forgot)...Micro$haft SUCKS!
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:5, Informative)
OK. I've seen this kind of
Basic economics people. This kind of logic assumes that they have already built and purchased all of their units. Don't you guys think that Microsoft has some sort of inventory control? They don't build millions at a time and leave them sit around waiting for a sale. They build enough at a run to cover their projected inventory needs for Time Period X. If they had built all of them already, there would have been no shortage around the Christmas when they came out.
Re:So is this good or bad? (Score:3)
So I won't be giving M$ $200 so they can lose $100. I would rather they lost $300 on me.
xbox... (Score:3, Interesting)
how to sell an xbox (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:how to sell an xbox (Score:3, Funny)
What, all 10 of them? And those users won't buy any games, instead they'll just download 'em. Oh yeah, that'll help the bottom line, I'm sure. I'm sure that MS is chomping at the bit to do that!
Re:how to sell an xbox (Score:4, Insightful)
This isn't a troll either-it's the truth. I hope the system succeeds (I think it has, to a large degree) well into the next generation.
As much as people love to hate on MS, they've changed the console world forever. There won't be any more consoles released without a hard drive-it changes everything once you've used it. The same thing applies to the network jack-plug it in and you're off and running.
I know it's been said time and time again, but we play the games. Not the consoles.
Mod chips are legal, and Microsoft makes no laws. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, there are always people who like to modify things. I'm happy to just buy Sega games, Tecmo games, and the odd non-Sega/Tecmo game (Splinter Cell, for example) for use on my Xbox. Legally, I have the right to do whatever I want with my Xbox, including using it as a toilet. I can put any chips I want into it, even PowerPC chips!
People don't want to modify their Xboxes because they legally restrained from that action, they want to modify them because it's a fairly compact (compared to a full tower PC) unit with all the important hardware for DTS/DD and HDTV in one unit.
Re:how to sell an xbox (Score:3, Interesting)
1) If MS legalizes the mod chips...
I wasnt aware that MS had transcended its role as a soft/hardware manufacturer and entered into the realms of law. How exactly would MS legalize something? Hell if we're at it, I think I might start a company up and legalize pot.
2) They're only into it because they think they're thwarting "The Man".
Umm no. There are people involved in xbox-linux development for all sorts of reasons. Personally its so that I can run a quiet PC in my lounge and bedrooms with 800x600 res on BIG screen TVs. Much nicer and cooler (temperature) than running a 19" monitor. Most of the dev team do it for a personal learning challenge.
3) There won't be any more consoles released without a hard drive-it changes everything once you've used it.
Ummm no. I personally see solid state storage as a much more likely successor in the short to medium term. By sticking a PC HDD in a console you effectively place a 3-5 year life on the machine (at best). After that the drive dies, you're screwed. Sure this implaces a nice inbuilt obsolesence for MS to ensure you need to buy an Xbox2, but for me, I still like to play my Sega Genesis once in a while.
4) No quote this time, but just to let you know. The modchip itself is completely legal in any country anywhere in the world. All it is is a BIOS chip. Its the BIOS code on the chip that has questionable legal status. The earlier BIOSes were all coded using a warez'ed version of the MS XDK, so the released code is illegal. Today however there is a completely legal, non XDK BIOS called Cromwell developed by (you guessed it) the xbox-linux guys (props to all an sundry).
So yeah, its all just to thwart the man.....you asshat.
"At a loss" (Score:2, Informative)
You do realize that MS sells each one of these systems at a loss
Contrary to popular belief, the console makers do not sell the consoles for less than their marginal cost of production and distribution. The "loss" lies mainly in the expenses of product development and promotion.
profits (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:profits (Score:5, Informative)
This is so damned wrong I don't know where to begin. Sony and Nintendo don't sell their consoles at a loss. MS may but it's nowhere near $200. As they produce more and more Xboxes, their loss decreases per unit sold, as well. By now they're probably seeing no loss for newly produced Xboxes sold.
"the idea is to sell hardware cheaply to kill compitition and make money by selling the services i.e. in this case the games. So more the Hardware sold widers are the losses , but it also ensures future service sales"
If by "services" you mean licensing fees, yes. But games are products with a one-off price.
I'd really like to see the data backing up $200-$400 loss per console. I need a laugh.
No, all game consoles are NOT sold at a loss (Score:3, Informative)
Smaller XBox (Score:5, Funny)
The same thing they always do (Score:5, Funny)
"Mom, I can't find my XBox!"
"Did you look under the controller"?
Srashdot? (Score:5, Funny)
Nice Engrish
Re:Srashdot? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Srashdot? (Score:2, Funny)
Nice Engrish
No, it's not a typo, it's ment to read aloud to sound like a lisp, basically it's how slashdot editors talk after being kicked in teeth so many times for typos!
-Jason
Re:Srashdot? (Score:2)
Xbox Mod Chips (Score:5, Funny)
It means that MS profits for next quarter will be higher from all the people flooding the market buying old XBoxes.
XBox mod chips... (Score:5, Funny)
If Microsoft goes through the trouble of reconfiguring the case, then rejiggering the motherboard is trivial. Wouldn't be surprised if they put a bullet-proof kryptonite cover over the chips or soemthing.
What it means for Xbox Mod Chips (Score:3, Funny)
The same thing it meant the last time a change was made to the xbox.
Time to make new mod chips.
Smaller XBox? (Score:5, Funny)
Now what will I use to crack open coconuts?
Re:Smaller XBox? (Score:2)
Sheesh!
I suspect it's Sega (Score:5, Insightful)
My guess is that Microsoft did this to appease Sega and boost sales of their titles, in order to keep Sega making Xbox exclusives.
Re:I suspect it's Sega (Score:5, Interesting)
And I so wish they had released Jey Set Radio Future non-exclusively, as I would have so bought that for my Cube already.
Re:I suspect it's Sega (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I suspect it's Sega (Score:5, Interesting)
Sonic, Monkeyball, and the like make sense on the Gamecube.
Panzer Dragoon sOrta on the XBox makes sense.
Shinobi on the PS2 makes a whole lot of sense, though I wish they had made that one cross-platform in the same way they did some of their other titles.
I want NiGHTS on the Cube. That's all I can say.
Re:I suspect it's Sega (Score:2)
Re:I suspect it's Sega (Score:2)
downloadable content? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:downloadable content? (Score:2)
Xbox Shrinks? (Score:5, Funny)
Increase the size of your XBOX in 10 days with our Herbal XBOX Viagra!
Who is te JPN developer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who is te JPN developer? (Score:2, Interesting)
Rare (Score:5, Insightful)
Like them or not, MS is in the console business for the long haul whether they turn a profit within the next 3 years or not.
Re:Rare (Score:2)
IAMAA, i am not an accountant.
Xboy? (Score:2)
Except that Rare is not Japanese...
Rare Ltd, a British game developer, was once half-owned by a Japanese company named Nintendo Co Ltd. Thus, even though it's not an acquisition of a Japanese company, it's still an acquisition from a Japanese company.
I've always wondered what Microsoft's acquisition of half of Rare will mean for Rare games on handheld systems. Will Microsoft publish Rare games on Game Boy platforms, following Microsoft's previous release of "Windows Entertainment Pack: The Puzzle Collection" on Game Boy Color? Or will Microsoft bring out its own handheld game system based on the Pocket PC platform, called the "Xboy"?
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
This isn't really news. (Score:5, Insightful)
MS has a history of going long-term with high-profile products, and it's paid off for them. This venture was no different, and losses were expected. Maybe if this story was posted say, 3-4 years down the road, it'd be newsworthy, since that's when MS is expected to BREAK-EVEN with the Xbox.
This sounds like editor & zealot bait - fanning the flames of hate. Woo-hoo, MS is losing money?
Woo-diddley-hoo, they knew it before we did. Get a grip.
Re:This isn't really news. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This isn't really news. (Score:2)
Riiiight...
And it is more like 2-3 yrs
Re:This isn't really news. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, the idea of hard facts as opposed to speculation may seem un-/.-ish , but it does server a purpose.
Re:This isn't really news. (Score:5, Insightful)
Except this time they're on the hook for hardware. BIG DIFFERENCE (at least for MS). MS's usual modus op. is to bring in HW vendors to flesh out their visions, that way their only on the hook for the software R&D. If the product tanks (every version of the MS tablet up to now, early PocketPC, etc) MS has only eaten R&D costs. HP, et al will have to eat their own R&D costs plus the hardware costs (manufacturing ramp up, shipping, etc) of the product that tanked.
Now, I'm not saying that the XBox will fail, or that MS aren't in it for the long haul. But being on the hook for hardware (and at a loss no less) is much more risky thank software only.
How? (Score:2, Interesting)
The real question... (Score:3, Funny)
-Microsoft runs out of funds and has to close its doors.
-Our sun dies
Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:2, Funny)
Re:A very cold system, and #3 (Score:5, Informative)
Sony Playstation: 50 million units
Nintendo GameCube: 16 million (or 10-12 million depending on who you believe)
Microsoft Xbox: 8-9 million
Microsoft is not doing so well. Microsoft says sales of Xbox are on track. Yet what did Microsoft project they would sell? 9 million to 11 million. How many did they sell? 8 million, and they hope to sell 1 million more by June 30. Therefore Microsoft might possibly meet the low end of their projections.
Sources...
CNet: PlayStation 2 shipments top 50 million [com.com]
CNet: Microsoft says Xbox sales on track [com.com] ("We expect to finish our fiscal year with just over 9 million units sold worldwide," Koch said.)
And finally, for the Microsoft shills that think Xbox will take the world by storm...
Suppliers dim Xbox sales picture [com.com]
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:3, Informative)
All the other systems have Dolby 5.1 capability, it just depends on if the games support it.
The network adapter and built-in hard drive don't mean swat because nobody will be taking full advantage of them until the other two consoles get them. Hold on, I'll justify why.
It is because XBox is no where near #2 -- worldwide. It may very well be #2 in the USA, but with Japan's big gaming market, that doesn't mean dick. Take a look at the hardware console charts half way down the page.
http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten.htm
XBox is holding less than %5 the total market. And remember the GameCube came out 5 or 6 months after the XBox and holds around %15. Not many gaming companies are going to develope a game that utilizes the hard drive and network adaptor exclusively for the XBox. The market just isn't there.
Hell, last year somewhere around 300-400 games came out for the PS2 -- remember all the Japaneese stuff we don't see. And only 68 for the XBox. Not to mention all the PS1 games that are still being produced.
If you still don't believe me on the numbers search for the lastest sales annoucements from Sony, Ninetendo, and Microsoft on last years consoles. I don't remember Ninetendo's but Sony was around 50 million units and Microsoft around 8 million.
Hell, most developers still make XBox games that look like ass and by the time they figure out how to take advantage of that hardware, the PS3 will be out.
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:5, Informative)
Completely false. The GameCube doesn't even have a digital audio out. The best it can do is ProLogic II. The PS/2 can do pre-encoded Dolby Digital 5.1, good for cutscenes and DVDs, but nothing in-game. A (very) few games do in-game encoding to DTS, but this requires dedicating one of the two vector processors to sound encoding.
With the Xbox, the Dolby 5.1 encoding is done by two dedicated DSPs on the sound chip, and is automatic for all games. It's the only one with the grunt (and the licence from Dolby) to do it.
The network adapter and built-in hard drive don't mean swat because nobody will be taking full advantage of them until the other two consoles get them.
There are ports of PS/2 games that have had custom soundtrack playback added, from the hard drive. There are a number of games that require the hard drive on the Xbox, Morrowind and Project Ego being a couple - PC ports may well require it. And of course, there are still Xbox exclusives that use it to good and occasionally innovative effect, such as Blinx.
XBox Live is making very good use of the ethernet port. So are tunneling apps like XBConnect that let you play peer-to-peer online multiplayer Halo/Mech Assault/Tony Hawk/Unreal/whatever. Can't do that with just an iLink connector.
Hell, most developers still make XBox games that look like ass and by the time they figure out how to take advantage of that hardware, the PS3 will be out.
And I suppose developers will instantly know how to use the (considerably more complex) PS3 hardware to best effect? Quite the opposite - look at how long it took before the PS2 hardware got used properly. Xbox has a big advantage here, with its far easier/more familiar dev environment.
Most PS2 games look like ass too. It depends on the quality of the game, of course. Halo is very nice looking, Rallisport Challenge looks superb, Splinter Cell is amazing and Halo2 is looking awesome. PS3 is still a while away, and Xbox2 is also scheduled for that timeframe.
GameCube came out *earlier* (Score:3, Informative)
#2 in domestic sales isn't where MS needs to be... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not trying to be a troll here, but don't undermine your position by calling yourself an advocate of any given platform. Changing from advocating one system to advocating another doesn't make you impartial, or show the overwhelming benefits of the system. Mostly it just undermines your credibility.
For the same price of a PS/2, I got Dolby 5.1 in all games, network adapter, built-in hard drive, etc.
You do get Dolby 5.1 in the X-box, which doesn't do you any good unless you have a high-end 5.1 setup. Cheap 5.1 setups are worse than good stereo setups, dollar for dollar. And as another poster pointed out, you can get 5.1 out of the PS/2, it just isn't compulsory that developers support it (as far as I know, I may be wrong).
You also get the network adapter, but it costs as much to activate an X-box live account as it does to buy a PS/2 Network adapter, which includes a modem, so the point is kind of moot (unless you need a modem, at which point, why did you buy a Dolby 5.1 setup and not get broadband?)
The hard drive is very, very cool, and I hope all future systems incorporate it.
I think there is a lot Sony has to live up to in its next gen console to even catch up to what the Xbox now offers. And #2 ain't bad for a 15 month console life span!
Ok, this is kind of silly. A lot to live up to in a next generation console? The PS/2 is significantly closer technologically to the XBox than the PS1 was to the dreamcast, yet the following generation of systems absolutely trounced the Dreamcast for power and overall playability. Every new console generation needs to be at least 10x as powerful to get off the floor. Is the X-Box more powerful than the PS2? Definitely. Is it 10x more powerful? Not a chance.
The difference in power between the XBox and the PS2 is about a factor of 2, over a broad spectrum of games and pixel-pushing abilities. The XBox has hands-down better loading times, and lots of shiny polish. These are things that you should be pushing in the X-Box vs PS2 debate. The X-Box is satisfyingly faster and more responsive, which leads to a better overall experience. There are fewer games made for it, but you can tell the games that are made for it are just snappier.
#2 in total domestic sales wouldn't be bad for a 15 month old system, but #2 in current sales is a major problem. According to MS and Sony estimates, Microsoft sold a shade under 500,000 X-boxes domestically this holiday season, while Sony sold over 4 million. While the system is still shiny and new, it needs to be making more sales than the current leader, not 8x less. For a system that will not see profitability at anything less than #1, this tremendous deficit in sales is a major problem. #2 is exactly where Microsoft doesn't want to be... Breaking even projections were based on a very successful launch and Christmas season, which they have failed to meet. #2 in domestic sales for a console already through its second Christmas is bad news.
Nintendo is remarkably profitable at number #3 domestically and #2 worldwide, so this really is a race between Microsoft and Sony.
That's not to say that the X-Box is without merit. That's to say that you picked the wrong merits to tout. Splinter Cell is an incredible X-Box exclusive, and there are plenty of great X-Box games to keep even the most jaded gamer's budget stretched. The PS2 has more good games overall, but what value the difference between 20 and 10 great games per year if you can only afford 5?
And while the giant X may not be the most elegant of systems, you have to give Microsoft credit for creating the strongest system in a market known for blowing people away.
-C
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:2)
Never out of memory? (Score:2)
Seriously though, a hard drive is a "Good Thing" and if the PS2 had made it standard, the games would take advantage of the increased flexibility. You can make the argument that there are few decent games for the XBox, but you can't argue that the hardware isn't the best among the current consels.
Re:Still #2 And A Very Cool System (Score:3, Insightful)
Everybody needs to relax and enjoy whatever console(s) they have.
MS doesn;t plan to make money on this version (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:MS doesn;t plan to make money on this version (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmmm, sounds a lot like a certain Japanese CE manufacturer a few years ago. I think that the thing that some people are missing is that I don't think that M$ is in this to become a dominant console manufacturer. A while back a story was posted here that discussed the xbox and WebTV and Gates had to decide which way to go with the foray into the console world. I think that had M$ wanted to be the "next Nintendo", this wouldn't have even factored into the discussion, as modding up a webtv would have been suicide. Nope, M$ wants to get into the home. They saw the PS2 as a threat to computing domination in the home, and lofted xbox as a pre-emptive strike. M$ is not expecting to take massive losses as a console manufacturer. If it looks like either xbox, or consoles in general, will never be anything more than gaming consoles, you will see M$ drop xbox faster than you can say "OS/2". After all, if M$ _really_ wanted to be a console manuf, then they would have done it back in the 3DO days, a nascent market that didn't have a dominant force yet.
Semantics (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course the losses have increased, they're actually selling more hardware now than before, and losing money on the hardware.
The costs will go down over time. What with the smaller Xbox, larger software install base (== higher software revenues and profits), and all that.
Microsoft has to learn.... (Score:2, Informative)
Shrinking of XBox, turning point for M$? (Score:4, Interesting)
Their Initial Ventures Never Are Profitable (Score:5, Funny)
I bet you when the Xbox2025 comes out and is the last console on the market, MicrosoftAolTimeWarnerDisney will jack the price up to $2500. Which should just about offset the AOL losses...
Shipments are down too (Score:3, Informative)
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2129749,
says differently.
Osha now expects Xbox-related revenue for Nvidia's fourth quarter, which ended 26 January, to total $40m on 800,000 units, down from previous estimates of $85m on 1.7 million units.
According to that, they shipped less than *half* of the number of xboxes they expected to ship in the 4th quarter.
So have NVidia and the rest of the companies... (Score:2)
From what I recall one of the issues the XBox had was it was big and costly because the different companies refused to share info on their components. Whereas the PS2 was cheaper and smaller because they could combine manufacturing processes and reduce costs.
They Don't Care--They Got What They Want (Score:2, Interesting)
And for those of you who insist Nintendo is number 2 (it is in Japan certainly, but not overall) there have been lots of stories in the past few weeks about Nintendo sales. Here's one [yahoo.com] about Nintendo and EA. Basically, EA sees growth for the PS2 and XBOX, but not for Gamecube. Also from the article: "Shares in Nintendo have been battered by growing concerns about slack GameCube business worldwide."
And no, I'm not a PS2 or XBOX fanboy, so stop thinking I am. And no, I don't have a Gamecube, although if I could afford one I would for Metroid & Zelda alone.
Smugly fanning the flames. (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's my take:
Let's just say they 'cut bait' and stop production on the Xbox. What happens?
My 8-10 games continue to function.
The 6-8 games I'd like but don't yet own get CHEAP. (we have an Atari 2600 and 80 odd carts that we bought for pennies on the dollar in garage sales)
My Xbox still makes a killer DVD player.
I dunno 'bout you, but I feel I got my money's worth. On a dollar per hour basis, it's been a pretty good purchase.
And yet, I doubt it's future is in jeopardy less than 4 months after announceing Xbox Live.
Re:Smugly fanning the flames. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, as an XBox gamer I have to admit that the XBox is a neat system, and it should be with the amount of money that Microsoft is spending per customer. When you plunk down your $200 for an Xbox you are actually getting hardware worth quite a bit more than what you pay. However, as a Microsoft investor, I happen to think that the XBox is the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done.
Microsoft simply loses too much money per customer to be able to turn a profit before Sony and Nintendo come out with their next gen consoles. The only reason that Microsoft hasn't pulled the plug is that they know how important the Wall Street analysts think XBox is for Microsoft's future. Microsoft has to come up with a new growth market if they want to justify their high Price/Earnings ratio, and right now the only real possibility is the XBox. If Microsoft dropped the XBox, then their stock price would drop. Since all of Microsoft's management are heavily invested in MSFT they would much rather have Microsoft waste money on the XBox then have the stock price drop.
So? (Score:4, Insightful)
What it means for MOD chips (Score:5, Interesting)
The version 1.1 XBOX that started shipping in September of 2002 was hacked in about 1-2 weeks. This means that unless MSFT has really upped the ante with security, it will be more of a fun challenge to the MOD community, rather than a deterrent.
It's been 6 months since they've changed anything significant on the XBOX, so I'm sure the MOD community is waiting for a new challenge.
XBOX losses ? (Score:3, Informative)
I think PSII is going to have a rough second tier life... I think they really goofed not having more memory or making it upgradable and the lack of an intialy integrated hard drive. Hard drive space is likely going to be very very necesarry in the console market before long and Xbox will be sitting pretty as a value system while it will cost to upgrade PSII and its system memory is fixed with less than Xbox.
Step two after PSIII hits the market they again hit the bleeding edge market late but this time with a system designed with all of their lessons learned ( IE better controller, smaller footprint ). They hope to break even but don't care if they take an ultimate loss again and take direct aim at whatever sony offers after the 3erd generation play station. The goal the next time around is to establish the system is worthy. Not to mention folks Xbox is not a garounteed loss yet, it may well break even or proove profitable in the long run.
Frankly I think MS could deal without penetrating the Japanese market so long as they can garner game design support for US titles or generate a stronger console content generation industry over here. My guess is they are after making the US market able to stand on its own feet in competition. at that point its anybodies game... however penetrating Japans very protective domestic market in an area with so much domestic pride is to me is a very very very difficult.
I am no Xbox fanboy.... my console system is a PSII and I love it... but it has its limitations and by all accounts it is a far more difficult system to develop for. X-box by contrast represents a set PC type of environment with similar development needs where you don't have to account for widely varying consumer hardware choices. This means given time and users the ease of porting PC titles will lead to more content from US game designers that have largely kept to the PC to date.
It will be interseting to see what Sony does to pre-emt these strengths.... a late market PSII with budget price ( no more than Xbox), upgraded memory, and with the hard drive/ network card included might deliver a real coup de grace to Xbox sales of any sort and put M$ at a severe disadvantage with Xbox V2 if they don't launch with PS3 in the battle for the next genration whether its worthy or not.
I hate M$ and little annoying things in their Xbox release like extra $$ on top of a too expensive release price to unlock DVD playback and an utter crap controller design seem to doom their venture. However, M$ is in it for the long haul and regardless of the people who back it I would love to see a stronger US console development market develop.
This *is* big news. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. To make profits. This is self explanatory.
2. To use the system to leverage their Windows business somehow, selling the system at a loss in order to eventually put some modified version of Media Center in your living room.
They're failing at #1, and as far a I know, #2 would be illegal - it's basically exactly what they were found guilty of in court already.
No company can continue to lose money at something forever. I'm sorry, but this is a publicly traded company and if I were holding MS shares there's not really anything MS could do at this point to convince me that getting into this business has been a good idea. Sony's profitable, Nintendo's profitable, MS is losing *large* amounts of money. What's wrong with this picture?
Almost lost in this story is that MS is now saying they're barely going to hit the low end of their sales forecasts. You think they expected to lose $384 million? They probably wouldn't have if they'd sold as many consoles as they'd hoped - this means less software sold, and fewer royalty payments. The fact is the Xbox is not doing well, however MS wants to spin it.
And regarding this Japanese company they're "propping up" - I would honestly doubt it's Sega, though it's possible. However, all of Sega's recently-released Xbox games were announced over a year ago (at the E3 prior to the Xbox's launch), and the only recent Xbox game I can recall being announced by Sega is Virtua Cop 3. That's honestly not a lot of support. More likely, the investment is in Tecmo - which has been devoting almost exclusive support to Xbox ever since its release, and which has two of the highest-profile titles ever released for the console - Dead or Alive 3 and Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball, not to mention the recently announced Dead or Alive: Code Cronus and the hinted-at Dead or Alive 4. All Xbox-exclusive. Sega, by contrast, hasn't released any million-sellers for Xbox, not even close, and hasn't announced much for the system lately.
Re:I'm wondering... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft's Home and Entertainment segment, which includes the Xbox, PC games and the company's TV products, posted an operating loss of $348 million in the quarter on revenue of $1.28 billion. A year earlier it had a loss of $180 million on revenue of $833 million.
Re:Microsoft Propaganda (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Microsoft Propaganda (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Microsoft Propaganda (Score:5, Informative)
I have several pretty good games for the PS2, and several really good PS1 games. I havea lot of crap for the system, too... but at least I can say I have that many great games for the PS2.
For the XBox, I only have a few that I can honestly say I like. I've rented several, and the better ones weren't exclusives. I've even given away XBox games that I thought were total trash.
Halo is fab, and Buffy is neat. DOAX is neat. But overall the system IS lacking in great games. I mean to pick up Panzer Dragoon sOrta, since it'll be worth it. But c'mon, the systme has been out this long and the good games are only now starting to really trickle in, and the best ones are cross-platform.
That hardly says good things about the XBox.
The Gamecube is doing marginally better, since I can honestly say I only have one Gamecube game that I would honestly say I think sucks. Not that there aren't shitty games for the Gamecube, too, but most of those are obvious trash. The Nintnedo first party titles have all been top notch, and even ANIMAL CROSSING (as strange and childish as it is) has been a greater source of amusement to me than anything on the XBox.
Oh, and yes, I do have all three systems.
Not long at all. (Score:3, Interesting)
Every single system only gets so many great titles per year of its life. If you look at your 15 solid-gold SNES cartridges from back in the day, you fondly remember playing them. Do you remember the really shitty games no one even tries to sell anymore? How about how long it was between Mario games, or how amazing it was to get Metroid 3 years after the SNES came out?
Launch titles are a mixed bag, with most of them being rushed, sucking, or under-using the power of the system. There are enough great Sega and Tecmo titles to justify owning an Xbox. On the GameCube, there are enough great Nintendo, Sega, and other titles available to justify buying it. Same for the PS2: how many RPGs do you want? I bought Suikoden 3, Legaia 2, Wild Arms 3, etc. These are great games that are reasons to own a system. If you look at your library, and you see only games you'd rather not play or sell.. then you should be picking more carefully.
My GC library is around 17 games, my PS2 is 7, my Xbox is 7. With every console/portable I have, I'm sitting around 175 games. I do have crappy games, but years of experience have taught me how to quickly spot something I'll enjoy. And if you're in doubt, rent it -- or ask the people at the store (assuming it's EB, not Wal-mart
Re:Mean while.. (Score:5, Informative)
Bill and his wife have donated tons of money to shelters/cancer treatment centers/fine arts, etc.
You may hate his company, but he's donated a helluva lot of his loot.
Not Evil, Smart (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, all of the large amounts of giving you ever hear about are also cases of conditional giving, the condition being that the giver recieve some sort of recognition for his or her giving, be it having their name mentioned in association with the gift, or having a building named after them. The only giving you can truely be uncritical of is Anonymous giving and in that case we wouldnt even be having this discussion.
Also, Bill Gates' gift of 100 million to fight AIDS in no way comes back to his pocket, so certainly you can't qualify all of his giving as evil, even by your twisted standards.
Re:A perspective from a competitor (Score:3, Informative)
Okay, I'll take what you say at face value about your position at Nintendo, and etc...
Re:A perspective from a competitor (Score:5, Funny)
How's your Smell-o-vision [google.com] project going?
Your educational background [google.com] is pretty impressive too.
What about Super Marx Brothers [slashdot.org]?
(Thanks Klaruz [slashdot.org].)
Re:Doomed by blockbuster (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Game makers would make games that are actually worth playing. Nothing's worse than shelling out $50 for a stinker and being stuck with selling it back as a used game for $15 if you;re lucky.
2) Making games with longer playing times and/or high replayability. As you said, a 20 hour game can be beaten easily within a rental period. This is not so with longer, more involved games that have a lot of hidden content in addition to the main story, such as Grand Theft Auto. (Companies like Gamefly.com that offer unlimited game rentals for $20 a month change that argument though, it's still cheaper to rent two games and keep them for 2 months than it is to buy both and then resell them)
I dont see Blockbuster putting anyone out of business until they can a) offer a monthly unlimited rental plan and b) keep games that are actually worth playing in stock. (And don't forget that there are like 2000+ blockbuster stores un the US, with each of them buying 50-90% of the games for every available console...that's a pretty good subsidy, many of those games are awful and wouldn't have sold near that many copies)