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Hardware

Embedded Linux In Onkyo's Home Music Server 203

Posted by timothy from the heavy-duty dept.
IrateSurf writes "ExtremeTech has a story about a new use of embedded Linux from Onkyo, which runs a home music server. Their NAS-2.3 has a CD-player as well as an 80GB hard drive for storing music and streaming it to other players on the an Ethernet network. Also check out the web site for the NAS-2.3." If only they would make it record radio, too ...
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Embedded Linux In Onkyo's Home Music Server More

Embedded Linux In Onkyo's Home Music Server

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  • Can it... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Tuxinatorium ( 463682 )
    ...rip CDs to MP3s? It seems like that would be a pretty good feature to have in a portable CD/mp3 player.
    • I agree whole heartedly. I would also like to see it support Ogg Vorbis format. I have talked to a couple hardware venders who plan on releasing Ogg support in their hardware but I know of nothing that has it _today_. Anyone know of Ogg support in hardware? (besides Zaurus). With this being Linux based, I would think that it could be possible to hack a solution.
    • It seems like that would be a pretty good feature to have in a portable CD/mp3 player.

      I don't understand. You want to rip cds on a portable CD/mp3 player? Do you have a hard drive on your CD/mp3 player? I don't think I've ever seen one of those. Please provide a url.

      It would be great for the stereo unit from the story, but unless you're talking about a portable cd burner with a mp3 codec and a line in, I see no point in ripping on a portable unit.
      • I don't understand. You want to rip cds on a portable CD/mp3 player? Do you have a hard drive on your CD/mp3 player? I don't think I've ever seen one of those. Please provide a url.

        Well, I've got an Archos Recorder. I'm not sure if by "CD/mp3" player you mean "a CD player that plays MP3s", or if you mean "CD or MP3 player". If the latter, the Archos Recorder is a hard-drive based MP3 player (18 GB). It also records to MP3 format at up to 160kps.

        By connecting a CD player's audio out to the Recorder audio in, I could in theory rip directly onto the Archos. I've never done this, and probably won't, as I'd have to manually enter song names, which is tedious, and as I like to rip CDs at a somewhat higher (~ 192kbps) quality. On the othr hand, the Recorder also contains a built-in microphone, so it can be useful for voice recording.

  • they must be rich (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Stanley Feinbaum ( 622232 ) <mister_feinbaum2 ... m ['mai' in gap]> on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:39PM (#5085470) Journal
    They must be rich if they can afford to have 80gigs worth of legal copies of their music...

    if each album takes 80megs about.. then the hd can hold 1000 albums... 1000 albums at 20$ an album is 20,000$ !

    Who can afford to spend that much on music?
    • But who actually buys all the albums that their mp3's are on?

    • Other sources (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pompomtom ( 90200 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:43PM (#5085495)
      Legal mp3's don't have to come off a $20 CD.

      Check acidplanet.com mp3.com mp3.com.au spinwarp.com etc etc etc
      • * Buy used CDs from Rasputin's Records, just make sure they're fairly new and in good shape.
        * Go to The Wherehouse
        * Take advantage of old policy and manager that your brother sells pot to and exchange used CDs that suck for new CDs that you want. ....profit! Well, have lots of CDs, anyway. That's how I made my CD collection. Now, everything has been ripped to mp3 and the original CDs are in a box in storage. I got tired of having them get scratched/stolen/lost.

        The Wherehouse also had a policy of accepting any coupon from other stores. One summer we found a big pile of "3 free movie rental" coupons.

        I don't think that I left the house all freekin summer, and boy, did we see a lot of crappy movies.

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:2, Interesting)

      by StArSkY ( 128453 )
      I have about 450 Original CD's, and my two flat mates (combined) would have over 1000. so do they make a version with 150Gb+????

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:3, Insightful)

      by infolib ( 618234 )
      They must be rich if they can afford to have 80gigs worth of legal copies of their music...

      Actually I just checked hard drive prices:
      Cheapest available 40GB drive: $93.30
      Cheapest available 40GB drive: $120.51
      (Note that these prices are converted from DKK)

      Since this is a $400 product, I wouldn't halve the storage space just to save 30 bucks.

      Stanley Feinbaum, professional journalist and master debater!

      You've come to the wrong place...
    • An album would be around 80MB as a 128kbps MP3. If you follow the NAS-2.3 link, you will find that it also plays uncompressed PCM format music. That's going to be more like 500-600MB per album. So if you redo your math:

      80 gigs @ 600MB/album = 133 albums * $20 = $2666.

      I would say that a lot of people I know own over 100 albums easily. Not to mention people with roomates combining their collection, etc.

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Dalroth ( 85450 )
      I know a guy from college who worked at a *LIBRARY*. He was about 22 years old and had well over a thousand CDs.

      I have well over 500 cds myself. I *WOULD* have more if they didn't cost so much. Back in the day when they used to cost $10 I made a trip to the store every week to purchase CDs.

      Now a days, I make almost 8 times what I used to make. Maybe I'm getting cheaper in my old age (probably true), maybe new music sucks (it does but there is still a lot of stuff I like), but I can't justify $20+ for a CD I don't even know if I'll like. Were that not the case, I know I would have more. Most of my friends are the same. Between us we've got 1000's of CDs lying around our homes and apartments.

      It's not impossible, in fact, in my experience it's quite likely.
      • I know a guy from college who worked at a *LIBRARY*. He was about 22 years old and had well over a thousand CDs.

        if your Canadian, you can LEGALLY copy Audio CDs. Your CDR blanks have a tax that goes DIRECTLY to some RIAA-whore group -- in exchange, you can copy any CD you please for yourself...

        so, go on down to the library with your burner and have at it.

    • Classical music CDs are often very cheap. $5 if you go for bargins. Some of these are even double albums, and almost always filled. Don't forgot people that work in the music industry, who get several free cds in the mail daily.

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:2, Interesting)

      by rednox ( 243124 )
      In Canada, it is legal for you to make a copy [neil.eton.ca] of someone else's music CDs for your own personal use.

      Recording artists and performers are compensated for this by massive levies [neil.eton.ca] collected on all blank recording media sold in Canada.

      This would be a handy device to take advantage of this law. It might take a few years to borrow and copy 1000 CDs from your friends, though.

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ediron2 ( 246908 ) on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @01:55AM (#5085947) Journal
      Spread the cost out, man... ask 'Who can afford a few grand a year?!'

      Young people. 15 to 25, no mortgage or significant debt, a job, and lots of exposure via friends to help thin out the good music from the bad before buying...

      I bought music from when I was 15 to about 28 yrs old, and didn't buy much compared to most of my music-fanatic friends. Since then, I've tapered off to a few cd's a year, plus a few more as gifts. I've got well over 100 tapes, 150 in vinyl, 250 cd's, and one 8-track (Abbey Road, don't ask why). And I repeat, I wasn't SERIOUSLY into music like several friends I had...

      So, 1000 seems quite plausible. What's more, a lot of those I got via cheap sources: rummage & yard sales, used bins, friends, etc. Nowadays, I pick up a cd when I hear a good concert or live band in a bar. Since the night's bar tab has usually cost me a lot more than the $10-15 for the CD, I consider it a tip to a good band and a chance to reminisce later.

      Round down to 15k (that's being charitable compared to your $20 per album), give me 1/5 the needed collection, and spread it over the last 30 years, and it seems laughably cheap... $100 a YEAR on average. Rich?! Shee-it, I spent more last weekend on sushi! Throw in the wife's similarly-sized music collection, not force me to waste a wall in my li'l house (not to mention portability like ipods and archos units have) and give me access to stuff that's only available on out-of-print vinyl and I'd probably start collecting old, good music like a fiend.
    • First of all if you're paying $20 dollars an album you're paying too much. Try $10 - $16. You also must be very young. I started buying albums when I was 12 and am now 40. I have about 500 albums vinyl and about 300 CDs, and have never been rich. Time makes up for a lot of things.

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gmhowell ( 26755 )
      I see several others have corrected you, let me add a bit more. I'll be 30 in about two weeks. My father's first CD player cost around $500. 1983 or 1984, I believe. At that time, I started buying CD's, and have bought only 3 tapes since. That's just CD's. Most were purchased for around $12 each. I have around 400 CD's. And I don't use some shitty 128k mp3, I use VBR with the r3mix settings. That's why I recently replaced my 60 gig drive.

      This also ignores a music collection of my father's on vinyl that begins somewhere in the dark ages, when Buddy Holly was the new thing. Much (most?) of his collection is unobtainable on CD. That will quickly add up when I get around to ripping the vinyl.

    • As many have noted, it's not that unusual to have over 1000 albums. And what's more, it's not *that* unusual to spend that kind of money on a music system.

      Here's something that resembles the Onkyo in the article, which in itself costs $20 000:
      Linn Knekt [stereophile.com]

      (Of course it's on-topic, it runs Linux [slashdot.org]!

    • Re:they must be rich (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Excarnate ( 453613 )
      Hi Oblio!

      They must be rich...

      There are 3 problems with your post. Working backwards:

      Your cost per album estimate came out of your ass and it stinks. $20 per album is way off. Even when I buy new CDs they cost $13 at most (per disc). I buy lots of used discs at typically $8 or less. A rough estimate of an average for my collection is $7 per disc. Replacement cost, now that's something different.

      Your estimates on how much music an 80 GB drive can hold don't list your assumptions and thus are useless for use in arguing or making a point. Using a (low) figure of 1 MB = 1 minute, and my collection's average of 52 minutes per disc (and 14 tracks per disc) I get about 1538 albums. I (and it seems many others) record at a higher bit rate, if you use 160/VBS it holds about 1326 of my average albums. Taking the higher bitrate and my averages, that's about $9900 worth of CDs this thing will hold. That's close to your $20,000 for goyim ;-)

      The final place you fall down is in your time estimates. You assume that everyone is a loser teen who has to fill the hard drive and fill it today. I'm old enough to have been buying CDs since 1985. And I've got a beautiful wife who has been buying her own CDs for our (instead of "my") collection. And I wouldn't fill the drive with what we have today, but guess what? Shock shock horror horror, we are still adding to our collection and we wouldn't be interested in something without expansion room. With our collection we've spent an average of a bit over $400 per year of which I've spent about 3/4 of that. (And yes, Napster led us to many new bands where we ended up buying the band's CD.)

      Oh yes, Onkyo might not care if you don't buy this product. They sell many products aimed at different segments of the market. There are people whose CD collection makes mine look puny. Just because a coat doesn't fit you doesn't mean it shouldn't be for sale. The same for this product. But you have a point, too. I fail to see it, but I'm sure you have one.

      Hey, here is an idea for record companies: Give away all music but at a low bit-rate. People can find what they like and what they think sucks a golf ball through 50 feet of garden hose. And the quality will be low enough that they'll want to buy, on CD, what they like.

  • Why not wireless? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Metalhead01 ( 587101 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:39PM (#5085475) Homepage
    There are a lot of these little guys popping up on the market, yet all of them use a physical connection. Is there some inherent technical problem with using an 802.11b device to stream the music?

    • Re:Why not wireless? (Score:3, Informative)

      by pummer ( 637413 )
      you should be able to use one of these [zones.com] for wireless. It's an adapter that plugs into ethernet ports and turns them into wireless.
      • you should be able to use one of these [zones.com] for wireless. It's an adapter that plugs into ethernet ports and turns them into wireless.

        While I'm sure you can, why no wireless models?

        • The powers that be most likely figure that more people have Ethernet, and it's easier to convert Ethernet to wireless than the other way around. That being said, there are so many obscure and seemingly useless audio devices out there that it would justify at least one wireless model being built.
        • Since the device is aimed at custom home system installers, it's a pretty good bet that those guys are going to be putting Cat5 all over the place. And, for a stationary device, I'd always rather use wired rather than wireless, unless there's a compelling reason not to.
      • Or use a wireless bridge like the Linksys wet11 (same price as the wireless converter referenced above). The advantage with a bridge is that it can handle more than one component for about the same price.
    • Ethernet is cheap. Want wireless? Buy a wireless bridge for $100. I do that with my Rio Receiver and XBox.

    • Re:Why not wireless? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Drakin ( 415182 ) on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @12:00AM (#5085580)
      Price, simple as that. They're trying to keep the price as low as possible, and adding wireless supporty would likely as $50 to $100 to the price, for functionality not everyone would use.

      The consumer base (not more geek minded users) hasn't really started to adopt wireless in a major way, while they're getting into devices like this.
      • On the other hand, what non-geek would be buying a hard-drive based music player?

        On the third hand, if you're REALLY a geek, you know how to pull Cat5. : ) Wireless is fine for laptops, but I don't understand why I'd want to use it for stationary boxen.
        • My friends in NYC are renting a big apt. When they started figuring out how much it would cost to cable their apt, it came out to like 2x as much as setting up a wireless network. 95% of what they do is internet sharing so the economics panned out great.
    • Is there some inherent technical problem with using an 802.11b device to stream the music?

      No. In fact, there is a product on the market that can stream music in three different wireless paths, 802.11b, 802.11g and bluetooth, along with gigabit ethernet. The system uses an open source operating system, you can address it via http, ssh, X11 or you can roll your own access system, its portable, has a fold-out LCD screen and is so thin, it can fit under a typical AV receiver. You can read more about it here [apple.com].

      • umm, and it sounds like shit.

        its not going to sound like your Onkyo reciever will - furhter, its got a HD && fans for lotsa crappy humming noise to f-up your $4000 B&W speakers (or whatever) listening experience.

        If there was a way to put a PC in the entertainment center -- and Have it *SOUND* like a good pc of audio kit, we would all do it -- trouble is, a $150 sound card dont cut it.

    • yeah, you aren't allowed broadcasting music over the airwaves without a licence.
    • There is no technical problem, just a logistics one. It's trivial to convert wired to wireless, but not the other way around. It would also add significantly to the cost, when most of these systems are trying to stay low priced.

      Personally, if someone came out with a wireless model that would kill it dead for me. I have no wireless in my house, other than cordless phones (and none in the 2.4GHz range), but I do have ethernet jacks all over the place.

  • Archos Radio Recorders (Score:5, Informative)

    by Foxxz ( 106642 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:39PM (#5085476) Homepage
    "If only they would make it record radio, too ..."

    See archos [archos.com] for devices that record raido directly into mp3. They have a hard drive and a smart media device that does that i beleive. Plus they keep the last 30 seconds of audio in memory in case the song you want has already started you can still get the begining.

    -Foxxz
    • It looks like the archos only is intended to record songs off the radio. What if I want hour-long programs? Can it handle that, or does it time out. What about scheduling? I don't want to babysit my radio-tivo. And bummer about the FM-only reciever.

  • does it matter what OS it's running? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rtphokie ( 518490 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:41PM (#5085486)
    mod this flamebait if you must but I gotta ask, what does it really matter what OS it's running?

    It could run TRS-DOS for all I care as long as it gets the job done efficiently.
    • :flame on:

      Well, it matters because this is not
      a press release site for mp3 players.
      The fact that it's using a a version
      of embedded linux is a interesting
      facet of the story to someone who is
      interested in the way things work.

      Also slashdot readers have a bias for
      linux related things. (It's one of
      the reasons i'm here)

      Why are so many of the readers here
      so constantly pissed off about the
      pro open source/linux/anti-windows
      slant here?
    • 1. things that run linux is news for nerds
      2. no news is good news
      3. news about things running linux is bad!
    • It does matter because it proves that Linux is useful in its own right, rather than being nothing more than a fanciful toy for geeks.

      When a major company treats Linux seriously it's a big boost for the open-source and free software communities, and a big slap in the face for the fools claiming that Linux is "useless" or "without value".
    • Because if it is running Linux there is hope of reflashing the bugger and getting a useful piece of gear. I.E. no dependence on a Windows file server (which the current software depends on) and getting OGG support.
    • It doesn't matter to me in the least. Onkyo makes some of the shittiest components I've ever used. I had a CD changer fail within 3 years, an amp fail within 5 years, and the sound quality coming out of even their "high end" models sucks ass. Onkyo could be running a full graphical interface of OSX, and I still wouldn't buy another one of their products. They make Sony look good by comparison.
    • It matters because it provides ammunition to use with people that will insist on only using Windows and parrot the latest MS FUD, while completely resisting even LOOKING at Linux. The next time they say something to the effect that Linux is useless, can't compete with MS products, etc., you just point to a couple of electronic boxes in their home entertainment center and say, "Oh yeah, well your TiVo is using Linux, your MusicServer is using Linux, ..."

  • Article Text (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:44PM (#5085501)
    Onkyo (www.onkyousa.com) is one of the better-known Japanese manufacturers of home theater gear. Recently, the company has begun building audio and home theater equipment with built-in Ethernet ports, rather than some proprietary connectivity scheme. PC Magazine wrote about one of Onkyo's product, the NC500 Net-Tune Receiver. However, the Net-Tune receiver is perhaps the least interesting of the products, offering the now-familiar paradigm -- the digital receiver that can route music from your PC to your home audio system. The NC500 does have a stereo amplifier, but is otherwise similar to products from Turtle Beach, Sonic Blue and others. However, Onkyo is bringing Ethernet capability to a full-fledged, Dolby Digital/DTS 7.1 receiver in it's TX-NR900, THX-Select certified home theater receiver. The TX-NR900 offers 110 watts RMS into 7 channels, supports all the major surround sound standards and can act as a Net-Tune client, allowing you to pipe the digital music from your PC directly to your home theater rack. In addition to the usual array of input and output ports is a standard, 10 megabit Ethernet port.

    That's pretty cool, but that's not all. Onkyo also sells a line of high-end gear targeted towards custom installations under its Integra brand. Onkyo offers products similar to the NC500 and TX-NR900, but with additional capabilities. What's most interesting, though, is the Integra NAS-2.3 Net-Tune Server.

    At first blush, the NAS-2.3 seems like a CD player, but it also has an embedded 80GB hard drive. So now it appears to be like any number of digital music players on the scene. But the NAS-2.3 also has a 10/100 Ethernet port, and is capable of acting as a music server to a network of Net-Tune devices. Running on the Integra product is an embedded Linux operating system, which acts as the server software.

    The NAS-2.3 can support up to 12 simultaneous streams to Net-Tune receivers or other clients. You can have different tracks playing in multiple rooms, move music to a PC, display a playlist on most types of displays (the NAS-2.3 has VGA, S-Video and composite video outputs) and can even connect up to CDDB to download track information on various CDs.

    One other interesting aspect of the NAS-2.3 is the availability of an empty drive sled inside the box, allowing users or installers to add additional hard drive space. You can't use a standard, PC-formatted hard drive, according to Eric Harper, Integra's Custom Installation and Product Manager. The formatting is somewhat different, but a knowledgeable user or installer should be able to add another drive to the server.

    So if you don't want the headache of building your own music server from a PC, then the NAS-2.3 can integrate into your home Ethernet network, co-existing quite well with your PC systems. It's an intriguing idea that embraces the PC network, rather than trying to remain isolated.

    NNY News with a twist of lime [pajonet.com].
    • What the article doesn't mention, but you can find by digging around for screenshots [integrahometheater.com], is that the back panel has not only ethernet outputs, but a VGA, USB and modem connections.

      Dunno how useful the modem would be, but it sounds like you could probably hook-up a USB keyboard and monitor, and get a shell on this device.

  • I'd like more TIVO like functionality (Score:3, Redundant)

    by SuperCal ( 549671 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:51PM (#5085533) Homepage
    I'd like one to work more like a radio Tivo. Say I always listen to Neal Boortz and Sean Hanity, then maybe the machine will sugest old Rush. Or if I always listen to the new rock station, maybe save the new rock show (or what ever the call radio segments) on a different station. Of cource without any real listings of radio shows, like a radio TV Guide, all that may be asking to much...

  • Ogg (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Tuesday January 14, 2003 @11:59PM (#5085571)
    It mentions that files must be in mp3 or pcm format. Now alot of my music is actually in ogg. First, if it's embeded linux, will there be a means by which we can install other codecs? (say ssh or such.) Second, will there be a supplied means to upgrade the hard drive? (I know you might not need 80gigs for your legal collection but my illegal collections already over that. by far.)

  • RIAA Sez: (Score:2, Funny)

    by nfotxn ( 519715 )
    If only they would make it record radio, too ...

    But recording off the radio could mean the end of the music industry as we know it!!

  • PCM Digital Out Though? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I love the ease of CD's on an HD, but as a semi-audiophile I want something that does uncompressed audio.
    The last unit from Integra (Made into an Onkyo brand) also offered digital out but only for MP3s. If you played PCM the digital out turned off! Anyone know if this unit does the same thing?
    AFAIK iMerge UK is the only company that has given RIAA the finger and offers PCM digital out, oh, and their players are much cooler but also more expensive.

  • Recording Radio.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Penguin2212 ( 173380 ) on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @12:09AM (#5085612)
    I would question the market viability of a device designed to copy songs from the radio. When you copy a CD that you bought and paid for, you are buying the material on the CD. You are purchasing a copy. When you hear a song on the radio, you are hearing performance of the song. An artist/record company makes money for every copy and performance made. If you buy a CD and copy it (assuming that you don't share it or anything) just to listen to it on a device such as this, you aren't taking any more than what you paid for. But if you copy from the radio, you are. In fact this was the basis for the case against radio stations streaming broadcasts over the internet, because temporary copies of songs were made on the user's hard drive therefore making it a copy. Most of you have probablly heard of that case. Most radio stations have ceased to do so because of this, and are fighting it as well. I'm not trying to defend the RIAA in any way. However, a device that would facilitate copying of music from the radio would definitely come under serious fire from the RIAA, IMHO.
    • This is nothing more than a simple "I agree" . I think that many times we get carried away with trying to "protect" rights we've never had, like taping the radio, which may have been tolerated in the past, we're now realizing is quite illegal, as you pointed out quite well in distinguishing it as a performance. I think a more rational approach such as yours is needed to make sure that we do get our digital media however we want.
    • The AHRA gives the US population the right to record such music.
    • Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like Jack Valenti said that VCR's were going to be like Jack the Ripper. I don't know where you live, but where I am, the quality of the radio broadcast is subpar, and the DJ's speak over the beginning/ending of most songs. I had dozens of mix tapes as a kid courtesy of Kasey Casem's top 40 broadcast. Why shouldn't I now be able to timeshift Cartalk or TOTN?
  • Does this thing support zeroconf?
    It would be nice to see one of these new zeroconf enabled TiVo reading its music off one of these.
    • It would be nice to see one of these new zeroconf enabled TiVo reading its music off one of these.

      Agreed. Additionally, I would like to see Tivo come out with its own device - a Tivo with a CD drive that could rip tracks itself and present them via the normal Tivo menu.

      In addition, a 'Treat as audio'-type option could inform Tivo that certain TV recordings should be treated as audio tracks, not TV broadcasts. That covers the case where digital cable supplies a lot of radio stations.

      I like Tivo's interface, and would be interested to see them move out slightly beyond their current TV-only remit.

      Cheers,
      Ian

  • Input Sources (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dark Warrior ( 132803 ) on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @12:14AM (#5085632) Homepage
    Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see ethernet as one of the input sources. I have that 1400 legal MP3s ripped from my CDs--I'm not sure I want to go thru that again.

    • Re:Input Sources (Score:2, Informative)

      by lowdown722 ( 599810 )
      From the product site: "An Ethernet port lets you connect to a PC to transfer MP3 files and store and sort them as well." That seems to suggest that you can transfer mp3s from PC to the NAS, but it's not explicitly stated. The input sources listed on the product's features site only include Analog In, Optical, and Coaxial. Maybe somebody who works for the company is reading this and could clear it up?

  • Running gerbilware (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @12:23AM (#5085662)
    Sorry for the subject line, but that's what I think whenever I see one of these embedded Linux stories--"For all I care it's powered by gerbils running in exercise wheels." Am I happy to see Linux get a little positive press? Sure, but let's not read more into this than it deserves. The rest of the world won't know this thing has "Linux Inside", nor will they care. The Linux crowd should be focused on the real battleground, the desktop, and derailing MS's monopoly.
    • I certainly was glad that Tivo's were Linux-based. This leads to the possibility of significant hacking. The well developed hacker community for Tivo saved my entire investment in one of my two units.

      When a replacement unit that they sent me fell on its ass outside of the 90 days of wartantee they offer, I was able to return it to operation, better than before. Some day I will write up the whole sordid story.

      There is a secondary value to getting the Linux OS used in such an embedded fashion, the OS will become more accepted by those who become aware of the OS after the purchase (although I would be very surprised if this device reaches even a fraction of the Tivo user base size).

      Anyway, although you may not care that a particular device such as this audio server runs Linux, others certainly do. While we differ in the value of this news item, I think that you and I would find condsiderable common ground in our view of the 800 lb gorilla, M$.

    • I'd like to see a "Linux Inside" campaign, etc., but now that I think about it, "Linus Inside" has better marketing potential.
    • For all I care it's powered by gerbils running in exercise wheels.

      It is called Linux advocacy [reference.com]. The more you hear about positive uses of a product, the more common that product becomes which brings on more positive uses. I would guess that over 95% of the non computer geek comunity would care less or even know anything about what gerbilware their computer was currently running had it not been for a strong MS advocacy and PR campaign to push the Windows name.

      The Linux crowd should be focused on the real battleground, the desktop, and derailing MS's monopoly.

      The embedded market has its own battleground which is just as real as what you want to battle for. Linux is many products to many people. The combination of all of them makes Linux what it is and where it will be later. I know that sounds like something you'd hear in a glorified PR but its true.

      Multiple people are working on multiple things in Linux to fill a desired need. People are not being "pulled" away from the desktop to work on an odd side job.

  • Yoko Ono? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Does anyone care what Yoko Ono does?

    Oh, ONKYO. Sorry...

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @01:00AM (#5085779)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • A rendezvous enabled wireless device that ties into my music collection (yes, iTunes). The reality of the situation is, if Apple doesn't release it, we won't see it for at least a year. Well, depending on how the HomePod is made, maybe it could incorporate rendezvous...

    Anyone have any home brew devices in the works? Maybe now's the time to start :)
    • It could copy MP3s from iTunes over the broadband adapter or firewire(?) to optional PS2 hard-disk, and also stream internet radio over the BBA... I know there's a PS2 app out there that streams media from a computer, but it'd be cooler if I didn't have to have my computer on to listen to MP3s or internet radio through my AV system...


      The Xbox definitely has all the hardware bits to make an awesome media box (ethernet adapter, reasonable sound output, big hard disk, available remote control), but Microsoft seems much more restrictive than Sony in letting developers access the ports... (on PS2 you can pretty much write any USB device driver you like, but on Xbox you can't talk to anything but Xboxes or Microsoft servers via the ethernet...)

    • A rendezvous enabled wireless device that ties into my music collection (yes, iTunes).

      Slim Devices [slimdevices.com] probably has what you're looking for. It doesn't use Rendezvous (yet) but does have all the things that Rendezvous has been promising (auto-discovery of server, integration with iTunes). A lot of companies are hawking auto-disocvery like it's some revoultionary technology... ummmmm it's a couple tiny UDP packets in each direction. That's it. We were doing this long before anyone had heard of Rendezvous.

      But Rendezvous is evoving into more than that... we recently showed the product at Macworld in San Francisco, and received a very enthusiastic response from the iTunes developers at Apple. They're opening up more of their system to us, so expect to see even better integration with MacOS iApps in our next software updates for the SLIMP3.

      BTW, the HomePod is about where we were two years ago. Seriously, they're good guys, and geeks like us, but don't expect them to ship anything for a few more months.
  • Has anybody found a link for the protocol specifications? I looked around on the Onkyo site and didn't find them.

    Ethernet is great, but not if I have to reverse engineer the protocol in order to serve music to the receiver.

  • There is a reason they choose Linux . . (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrLinuxHead ( 528693 ) <mrlinuxhead&yahoo,com> on Wednesday January 15, 2003 @01:53AM (#5085937) Homepage Journal

    Onkyo is smart for using Linux. Nearly all the Pacific Rim (Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, ect.) manufacturers are testing it or are ready to deploy because they don't need to pay out royalties per unit, can share innovations with each other, and can share data with each other's units over 100Mb Ethernet or 802.11x or whatever. The most important thing to remember is they don't need to spend huge amounts on R&D. Linux will become the Linga Franca of consumer electronics, unless Microsoft buys one of the big players and twists everyone's arm to go along. Maybe not even then, as the long term gains are too big. And most Japanese electronics manufacturers are thinking very long term.

    And yes these babies are BIG! And HEAVY! At 110 RMS per CH. Thats 660 Watts out, all discrete. No output IC's. Not to mentions pre amp and video switching. Schwweett.

    Inputs:

    Audio and AV Inputs - 3/6

    HDTV-Ready Component Video Input/Output - 2/1

    Front-Panel Video Input (with S-Video) - Yes

    S-Video Compatible Jacks Input/Output - 6/3

    Digital Inputs:

    5 Optical (1 Front Panel), 3 Coaxial

    Digital Output - 2 Optical Amp In

    RS-232 Control Port

    IR In/Out - 1/1

    • I mean 770 watts. (110 x 7) I sometimes see the rear channels as one. This is real 7.1

    • Your specs seem to refer to the TX-NR900 reciever. This does not run Linux, it merely plays music from a network connection. I don't think Linux is required for such basic functionality.

      http://www.imerge.co.uk/products/improductsimage s/ downloadphotos0901/S2000/S2000row34.jpg

      The Integra NAS-2.3 Net-Tune Server is the Linux based product. It's actually a rebranded Imerge product, from the UK. You can control the server via a TV, Monitor, PC, Palm, IR Pronto etc... Check out the LCD, it's just a bog standard LCD display used by many case modders - not a custom built VFD display as found on most hifi components.
  • Onkyo's site says the ethernet hookup thing uses "Net-Tune". They offer Windows Net-Tune software on their site, but only if you have one of their boxes. Does anyone know anything about this Net-Tune? Anyone reverse engineer this yet? I have done some google searches but I haven't found anything worthwhile yet...

    I've spent a substantial amount of time getting all my cd's onto my linux server (240 gigs worth! (flacs, not mp3s)). If I could get my machine to spew out my music using the Net-Tune protocol, Onkyo just might get some of my money! :-)

    -David
  • Sansui and Onkyo were renowned in the 80's for low-low-low-distortion amps and high-end recievers. This company has been in the consumer-audiophile business for a long time. I remember touch-sensitive controls and FM lock WAAAY before these things became maintsream. It doesnt surprise me that they are "pioneering" new ideas in consumer A/V appliances.

    Dennis
    • Onkyo, high end? Maybe not now, because they're always the el-cheapo brand that the drones at Circuit City are always pushing. The few Onkyo components I've owned have all been bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality.
  • Integra + Onkyo, please market this in the UK!

    At last a networked digital audio recording and storage device that actually looks like a proper piece of hifi gear for the rack in the lounge.

    While there are several units along these lines on the market now, they haven't really respected the basic ergonomic and stylistic standards for hifi separates in the modern home until now. This product seems to be the closest so far --- I want one, purchaseable here with a UK warranty! :-)
    • The Integra is really a rebadged Imerge product, who are based in Cambridge. It is known as the SoundServer S2000 - http://www.imerge.co.uk/products/improductshtml/ip main.html

      Of course, there may be some functional difference, but otherwise they look identical. Costs £1599 - AS this is Slashdot, I bet most people would just build their own audio server PC and slap in a nice sound card (M-Audio Delta 410 audio card offers slightly better specification) and with some interesting software, you could have a relatively cheap multi-room audio server which supports say, OGG Vorbis, APE, SHN, etc.
  • Animated (Flash) diagram demonstrating their home music network (Net-Tune) system :

    http://www.net-tune.net [net-tune.net]

    From the Onkyo FAQ: [onkyousa.com]

    While WAV, WMA, MP3 are supported formats, there are many variations of these. Please check that the bitrates used are compatible and if certain files will not play back, check the following: * The file must not be saved in a system folder, such as C:\Windows or C:\WINNT. * WMA file contains Digital Rights Management (DRM) which prevents reproduction on other devices. * The WAV file is not in RIFFWAVE format or is corrupt. Format Bitrate Sampling Frequency WAV(PCM) ---- 32k/44.1k/48kHz MP3 All 32k/44.1k/48kHz WMA 32/36/40/44/48/64/80/96/128/160/192bps 32k/44.1k/48kHz

    Further, it uses DHCP to get an IP address. And needs ports 60096,60097. But that is of course all useless information until I actually find one of these machines.

  • These countless manufacturers making home audio MP3 devices with integrated hard drives are missing the point: you want a single point of storage in your house for MP3's, or you are going to have chaos.

    Networks are not just for web-browsing. They're also for sharing files, like those MP3's. And if you're going to have them somewhere, you might as well have them on your PC where:
    (1) You can rip with that expensive Athlon or PPC processor using LAME
    (2) There exist myriad MP3 control tools like id3tool and mp3gain
    (3) Your portable MP3 player hooks up
    (4) You may be downloading files from mp3.com or other places
    (5) [Important] You have a chance of keeping the hard drive and fan whines away from your audio equipment

    Thus, you want the home audio component you buy to simply get its music off the network. Audiotron and SLiMP3 do just that, which makes them the only reasonable such devices.

    Between them, I prefer the Audiotron because it has digital output, which means I can use the expensive DAC in my receiver rather than the cheap one in the unit. The SLiMP3 is impressively flexible, though!

  • The good question is (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Nawak ( 170627 )
    Will I have access to source/documentation to customize this linux?
    If not, I think this kind of item would be frustrating as I am likely to end up with a dream of doing something totally different with this embedded computer...

    You know, some networked remote control for it for instance... arg... must... stop... thinking!

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