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Hardware

Swiftech 8500 Watercooling Kit Review 112

Posted by CowboyNeal from the keepin-cool dept.
playafly187 writes "OCIA has posted their review of the Swiftech H20-8500 Watercooling Kit. The following is a direct quote from the review: 'This kit is aimed at those who want the low noise operation of watercooling, but are confined to a somewhat small case and/or those who don't want to fool with extensive modding of their case to accommodate a watercooling setup. The only requirement for your case is at least one 80mm rear exhaust fan opening and an empty 5 1/2" drive bay. I will take a look at each component provided in detail, then will walk you through our installation and testing.'"
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Swiftech 8500 Watercooling Kit Review More

Swiftech 8500 Watercooling Kit Review

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  • I find this annoying (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phoxix ( 161744 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @01:02PM (#4972366)
    I seriously think slashdot needs an "over-clocking and related" topic. IMHO stuff like this shouldn't be in hardware but rather in its own topic. I say this because I'm 100% sure there are many of us who don't care for water cooling or overclocking. However we do care for other hardware topics and whatnot, so blocking the hardware topic isn't an option for us.

    just my two cents

    Sunny Dubey

    • Install an AMD processor lately? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 28, 2002 @01:21PM (#4972411)
      I haven't touched an Intel processor in ages, so I can't say how they are.

      Up here in the Great Amish Stronghold of Pennsylvania, it gets hot during the spring and summer. Around where I live, not everyone has an air conditioner. Actually, most people don't have 'em.

      People ask me for advice on getting new computers. It's sad, but I have to tell them to stay the hell away from AMD unless they're going to buy an air conditioner to keep in the same room. I then tell them that if they're having someone build a box for them, don't skimp on fans. If they're buying a store-bought computer, buy the damned warranty, and extend! Extend! Extend!

      Before I put my air conditioner in my window last spring, my Athlon 600 started having heat issues. As in, Linux started having weird errors, and Win 98 started BSoD'ing like mad. (*sigh* No, that wasn't normal for Win 98.)

      I put the air conditioner in, boom, problems solved.

      Now that I've upgraded to a nice AMD XP 1800, I intend to put my air conditioner in this year while there's still frost on the ground. ;)

      I'm not a cheap arse, aside from picking AMD over Intel for both cost and performance reasons. My fans cost quite a pretty penny. The processor still runs hot, and the box is still loud.

      It doesn't matter if you have supposedly silent fans when you need a huge arse one for the processor, one on the chipset, one on the video card, and a case fan to help vent out hot air. The noise adds up. (Oops, did I forget the power
      supply fan? They're always noisy. ;))

      And again, as for heat - not everyone has air conditioning. (I think people who don't at least have a few units stuck in windows are freakin' nuts, but hey. ;))

      Water cooling is the future. The current number of fans in boxes is getting ridiculous. The noise is climbing to outrageous levels, and they're slowly becoming inefficient when dealing with heat. Many people can't fit a full tower case
      into their decorum, and most people wisely don't
      wish to leave the sides off of their case for
      better ventilation.

      Most of us who deal with high-end computers have to deal with the severe heat issues that come with them. Processors are hardware. Video cards are hardware. Power supplies are hardware. Heat sinks and fans are hardware.

      You know what? Water cooling systems are hardware. And they're shortly going to become important pieces of hardware, even for those who don't overclock.
      • I'm not a cheap arse, aside from picking AMD over Intel for both cost and performance reasons. My fans cost quite a pretty penny. The processor still runs hot, and the box is still loud.

        Define hot please? something must be wrong if it still runs to hot. Personally, I had a HUGE heat problem(couldnt compile anything over 20MB without the system overheating) with my current processor. Im using a old Athlon Thunderbird 1.1Ghz which are known to have problems staying cool. But after installing a decent Zallman cooler and some good termalpaste(artic silver).

        I have'nt had a problem since(just for the record i also have two cabinet coolers in the box, but they have always been there. So they wherent the one responsible for fixing my heat problems), it even (to my suprise) made it through the heatwave we had in denmark this summer =)

        Right now, after being on/used the entire day. My CPU temp is 43C. Which is nothing.

        So my point, if your using a decent cooler on a AtlonXP (which should run cooler than the old thunderbirds) it should defently be possible to make your system free of heat issues.

        Have you checked if your cooling paste covers the entire top of the processor core? If there is a little area thats not covered probertly, you will never make the processor run at normal temps.

        Also I have a GF4ti4600 and four disks in the system, one is a 10K RPM SCSI. All these devices are know to generate heat, so if my system can stay cool. It should be possible to make your stay cool with out help from the airconditioning.

        Good luck keeping it cool =)

        (btw. i agree with your post(coolers == hardware), and im not trying to troll. I just wanted to provide you with some input)

      • Lemme see, sandpile.org, AMD Athlon 600:
        Maximum Power: 600 MHz 0.18 m: 34 W

        Something tells me there was something very very wrong with your setup. I do know a friend of mine running an athlon 1400 @ 72W max has some heat issues in the middle of summer, but that one? Give me a break.

        Also you claim in the first line not to know anything about Intel processors, in the next paragraph you recommend all to buy Intel (aka not buy AMD).

        Oh and in case you didn't know, Intel processors put out more heat total (85W vs 68W max for Intel 2.8 GHz vs AMD2800+), however the AMD have less surface area, so it'll need a better CPU fan. But for the case temperature, an Intel one is even worse...

        Kjella
      • and most people wisely don't
        wish to leave the sides off of their case for
        better ventilation.

        Actually, in some cases this might hurt ventilation rather than help it. Sometimes the cooling design relies on the case being closed to force proper (cool) air flow over the various parts.

    • Except that this paticular item isn't really aimed at overclocking...There are much more efficient (larger) products for that...This is a basic, easy-to-install, and working water-cooling mod for the purpose of SILENCING your loud-arsed cpu fans...

      Actually, except for the 275 dollar price tag, this looks really good....Too bad it won't help me, though...its all those scsi hard drives making the racket in my case...

      • I'm 1/2 way to a quiet computer in my room. I solved the problem of noisy hard drives by relocating the drives to an older machine that does nothing but serve music/movies to the rest of the computers in the house. NIC cards, combined with wireless, and an old (spare) computer makes it a pretty cheap proposition.

        Now I need to get rid of the HD that the machine boots off of to get it truly quiet. Solid-State drives seem too expensive to justify. I was thinking of trying to do a network boot, but wasn't sure how to get w2k up and running over a (wired) network connection. It might take a godawful long time to boot up initially, but seems like it would work fine once it was up and running. About the only two progs I would load would be Winamp, and Media Player.

        Anyone out there had experience in diskless w2k workstations?
        • Solid-State drives seem too expensive to justify.

          I had a neat thought on this one a while back, but haven't been able to find the solution yet...Ram-Drives. Isn't there anyone that make a hard-drive sized box that you can plug standard sdram into? Without the ram, it seems like it would be fairly cheap to implement, and anymore, the ram isn't that expensive, either...just start adding 512 mb sticks whenever you can afford it...Add a small battery backup (how much voltage can it really take to keep sdram sticks alive, anyway?) and MAYBE a hard drive to back up everything to... Gotta admit that it would be pretty nice to work one of these hypothetical devices up to 20 gigs-or more-

          Silent, fast, and fast. (Yes- I put 2 fast's in there on purpose---Cause it would be...)
          • The magazine "Maximum PC" had a review of a solid state 4GB RAM drive (card) recently (sorry, too lazy to find a link). I found the throughput (~160 MB/s) rather disappointing for a RAM drive, though. Also, I'm not sure if it had battery backup, which seems rather silly not to have.

            On a related subject: (software) RAM drives are rather old. Back in the days when I worked with dual floppy drive PCs (i.e. no hard drive, one floppy for DOS, and the other for the application and data), there were applications that emulated a floppy drive in RAM (much faster). Typically these were limited to 128K or 256K, and ran in "upper memory", i.e. the memory segment above 640K. Better remember to copy the contents of your RAM drive to a floppy before shutting down, of course...


        • Get a Seagate barracuta.

          Or if you are willing to risk killing a hard drive;
          1. Remove the hard drive from the case.
          2. Set on top of form pad in side the bottom of case.
          3. Ground the drive to the case somehow.
          4. Attach power/IDE cables.

          See how quiet it is now.

    • Re:I find this annoying (Score:5, Funny)

      by mchappee ( 22897 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @01:42PM (#4972492)
      >IMHO stuff like this shouldn't be in hardware but >rather in its own topic.

      I agree. Oh, and I don't use a mouse, so mice should have their own topic! I don't use fancy-schmancy graphics cards either, so let's topic those off also. I have no SCSI anything, so SCSI needs it's own topic.

      What Taco needs to do is actually LOOK at my PC, and make everything that ISN'T there it's own topic. After all, it's so damn difficult to scroll down a little further, and I just cannot resist the urge to read and post to stories the do not interest me in the least...

    • and ask for an "Only stuff I want to see" topic?

      Topics can only have a certain finess of grain before things just get unreasonable. Your wetware has a feature called "ignore mode." Set the flag.

      KFG
    • I seriously think slashdot needs an "over-clocking and related" topic

      Better yet, I think Slashdot needs an "advertisement" topic. The editors have even admitted [slashdot.org] that they run covert advertisements like this. (No, I don't care that the referenced article was posted on April 1. They do this often enough that it's obvious anyway, even without the linked article).
    • I think that OCing and modding should be in the same category. I'm interested in both AND general hardware news, but it would be good to have a subcategory.

  • Crap (Score:4, Funny)

    by llamalicious ( 448215 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @01:05PM (#4972373) Journal
    and I'm stuck with these sub-par 5 1/4" drive bays.
    Alas, no watercooling for me. ;)

    *dons flame-retardant suit*

  • Better idea (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Bring your computer to my room, it's fucking freezing here today :p
    • If you've got an Athlon, take the heat sink off it. That'll heat up your room quick enough... ^_^
      • Not really; The room temperature would be more or less the same with or without a heatsink on your AMD; actually it probably would warmer with the heat sink on and cooler without it, Since heatsinks dissapate the processor heat into the ambient air. They do not magically make it disapear. :) secondlaw.com [secondlaw.com]

  • Noise noise noise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Featureless ( 599963 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @02:11PM (#4972603) Journal
    I used to think worry about noise was something only Mac-having aesthetes did. I'd never had a "noise problem," and I could only see it being an issue for those using the gear in some kind of rarefied experimental or engineering setting (or making music, etc).

    Then I got a new AMD PC. It's not outrageous by current standards; XP2100+, GF4 ti4400. I suppose a better (read: more expensive) vendor might have spent time tuning the case, fans, and airflow to get it quieter... had I known, I might have considered spending the money on more expensive brand. But I did what I always do; buy the almost-cheapest hardware for the almost-best specs. And, basically, this approach has always served me well, except for this time, and only because of the noise.

    Oh wow, it is loud.

    I've seen the firey-flash thermal death movies of what happens when you remove the heatsink from a current AMD that were circulating a while ago; actually, I got my motherboard just as they started really getting into temperature monitoring and safety features for AMD CPUs. I can read in the hardware monitor, not to mention feel in the air, how hot this computer gets. Actually, I can hear the power involved; this is also the first PC I've had which, when the CPU is fully loaded, I can actually hear the power draw slowing down the fans. This still astounds me.

    My computer sounds like a running vacuum cleaner. Well, I exaggerate, but it is loud. Loud enough to be a serious nuisance. Loud enough that you turn up the volume of music. Loud enough that you don't want to watch movies or hang out in the room while it's on. And it blows me away. This is a PC for god's sake. I've never had to worry about noise on a PC before.

    I've since invested in "quiet" fans and "smart" fans. These help a little, but not much. I realize that the services of the professionals Dell/Gateway/Apple/etc employs for designing cases to cope with this are worth some of the money they charge on the other end. Although I never ever expected noise would be the thing that drove me back to the big vendors.

    So I find myself reading this article and actually seriously contemplating the purchase of this watercooler, despite the fact that I am not, and have no intention of becoming, an overclocker, and at ~$275, this gear is almost 1/3d what I paid for the entire rest of the computer - not to mention the risk of giving my gear a bath.

    And I find harkening back to all of those science fiction books I read which incidentally noted water-cooled PCs in the world of the future. How silly that seemed in 1989. And yet now, at the rate power consumption and heat are growing, I start to wonder... might we see factory-installed water cooling coming from the major retailers in few years?

    Just to cope with the noise? Or even because they have no choice, noise or not?

    Crazy.

    • What worked for me. (Score:3, Informative)

      by GoofyBoy ( 44399 )
      Never really found any tips on the Interweb and previous "ask slashdot" noice tips to really work for me except for;

      1. Panflows or Vantec Stealth fans are great. Both are really quiet, but you do sacrifice a bit of air flow. Not really a problem for me because I didn't get the fastest cpu (therefore lots of heat and requires lots of cooling)

      2. Distance and barrier. A great solution if you can get it to work. You can buy extension cables for USB or your monitor, mouse and keyboard. I got one which had them all in one. I then stuck the whole thing in a nearby closet and closed the door leaving space for the cable. Only have to access the computer to change cds, but its well worth the inconvence.

      Using this, I got the noise down to where I can hear my CRT monitor.

      3. (Never had to do this but I think I would have) You can buy noise cases. Wooden cases surrounded by sound adsorbing materials. I like this idea because its used by sound engineers. But it is expensive.
    • Actually, I can hear the power involved; this is also the first PC I've had which, when the CPU is fully loaded, I can actually hear the power draw slowing down the fans. This still astounds me.

      No, it sounds like you have thermal monitoring switched on in the bios like me - when your cpu isn't being used to 100% of its capacity, it isn't as hot - so your bios notices this and slows the fans down so they aren't as loud.

      Slower fans are quieter. I believe some overclockers/silent pc fanatics install larger case fans purely so they can get the same airflow at less speed.

      • Yeah, I thought about that. The reason that I think it's actually not the bios is the pattern of activity... the fan slows down (making a small but noticeable downward change in the pitch of the fan noise) when the load goes up. But I'd think if it where the bios reducing speed to match lower demand, it'd be the opposite. It is subtle, but you do notice it if you're paying attention.

        Your point made me think about it again, though, and I realized I can check the CPU and case fan speeds with the hardware monitor. So I ran a very, very brief and rough test, stressing the CPU and watching the CPU fan speed. Inconclusive; I think I see about a 5% decrease in CPU fan speed at 100% utilization, but it's tough to be sure with the low resolution (and I suspect, low reliability) of the sensor. I think it's really made to spot a failure, not much more. I also note a tiny but perceptible increase in the 12v line voltage level under full load. I guess I should have paid more attention in EE class; I don't know what this could mean.

        This makes me wonder further about how much power I'm actually using. By my (again, very coarse) math, I shouldn't be close to using all of the 350W the power supply can deliver, but I can't see investing in equipment to check.

        Ah well. Anyway, good thought.
        • This makes me wonder further about how much power I'm actually using. By my (again, very coarse) math, I shouldn't be close to using all of the 350W the power supply can deliver, but I can't see investing in equipment to check.

          You're probably right, but it doesn't hurt to check the actual amps your PS can supply at the different voltages: +12V, +5V, +3.3V (and a bunch of less interesting voltages, since the amps are usually very low on those). Going from, say, a 350W to a 430W PS does not necessarily mean that all amps on all voltages will increase. Check the PS manual or the sticker on the casing. Also, most power supplies cannot supply the maximum currents at all voltages simultaneously. The manual and/or sticker should also mention this.
    • Dude, get a better power supply. Antec makes some really nice ones, and so do several other companies. 400 or 500W is the minimum for such a system. Then, remove every single fan from that system and put it back in only if you are positive that it is necessary. Most good power supplies have a connector supplied with variable voltage (depending on load). Attach all fans to these and it will slow them down when it is not necessary.

      Basically, your problem is that you have too many fans but in the wrong locations. If you move them somewhere where they will be more effective but slow down the speed you will dramatically reduce noise and improve cooling.
      • Thanks for the idea. I've tried listening to just the PS; I think my biggest single noise complaint is the CPU cooler, although the graphics card figures in as well. I have thought about shelling out for a better one anyway; maybe I'll give it a try at some point.

        My case isn't so bad, but I don't have a lot of options for where to place the fans. I figure you're right, though, and actually, now that I think about it, I figure the next logical move is really a new case.
    • Every time the matter of CPU heat management shows up I am reminded of the following quotation:

      "I don't build computers: I am a cooling engineer"
      Seymour Cray.-

      I have seen the quote on several sigs, but I haven't been able to find a source.

    • The top 2 things you can do to quiet your AMD system:

      1) Get an Antec TruePower series power supply. Two big fans running slow/quiet. They're also the best power supplies you can buy short of the atrociously expensive and noisy PC Power & Cooling [pcpowercooling.com] power supplies (which I've also used).

      2) Get a Thermalright SLK800 copper heatsink, YS Tech Rheostat 80mm fan, and Arctic Silver 3 thermal compound. I recommend buying from 2CoolTek [2cooltek.com]. The YS Tech fans are adjustable, so you can try a slow/quiet setting and if that proves inadequate crank it up a bit. I've found 2500RPM to be a good balance of noise/performence on my 2400+ CPUs (which do run cooler than your 2100+ CPU, assuming it's the old Palamino core), and at 2000RPM you won't hear the fans at all. 60mm fans have to run at much higher RPMs than 80mm fans to move the same amount of air.

      Point #2 is the best place to start. It's probably all you need.
    • While not a major retailer, Systemax [systemax.com] is shipping their new Double X Systems [globalcomputer.com] with liquid cooling of not just the CPU, but also the harddrives and GPU. Im saving my pennies for one of these babies cuz theyre not cheap. I only wish they didnt come already case-modded, cuz IMO the whole point of that is to do it yourself.
    • Man oh man, I agree completely. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but loud computers bug the hell out of me. My main problem is with the CPU fans - that high pitched sound really goes up my spine. I just built a dual Athlon box, and I knew this was going to be a problem.

      I went to QuietPC [quietpcusa.com] and got a power suppply, a pair of Zalman CNPS 5100-Cu CPU coolers [quietpcusa.com], and some quiet case fans. I also replaced the Northbridge fan with a heatsink. I'm not a gamer, so I don't have a a fancy 3-D video card with a cooling fan, but they also sell heatsinks to replace those, too. The stuff is not OEM-cheap - it cost me about 200 bucks altogether - but I'm going to have this system for a long time, and I sit in front of it a lot, so this was worth it to me. The thing is so quiet I can hardly tell that it's on.

      You may not want to invest that kind of money in something you only paid less than a grand for, but if you're pissed off every time you use the thing, it'll be worth it. It's a tool, right? And isn't it better to spend a few extra bucks and get something good that's not going to annoy the living shit out of you all the time? Look at it this way - you can take all of these parts and move them over to the next system you build. The CPU cooler is rated for AMDs over 1.73GHz, so it's not going to be obsolete anytime soon.

      I've ordered several times from QuietPC and they just rock. Delivery is within a couple of days and customer service is good. You might think they're just a Zalman reseller, but they have a whole line of stuff - hard drive enclosures, acoustic insulation, yada yada, and their prices are reasonable. No, I'm not a shill, just a satisfied customer.

    • And I find harkening back to all of those science fiction books I read which incidentally noted water-cooled PCs in the world of the future. How silly that seemed in 1989. And yet now, at the rate power consumption and heat are growing, I start to wonder... might we see factory-installed water cooling coming from the major retailers in few years?

      Actually, I think this was an issue in supercomputing long before PCs started producing these ridiculous amounts of heat. I think I read a quote by Seymour Cray somewhere, stating something to the effect of: "I'm not a computer engineer, I'm a cooling engineer.". Also, I think I read something about a supercomputer being cooled by liquid air(!).

    • Hmmm.. Not so sure a Dell/Gateway will be any better. You'll probably just end up with a CPU that is running a bit hot (though probably stable) if you get a Dell/Gateway. Here are some things you can do:

      Get a large enough case. At least enough for two fans in the back (though one 92mm wouldn't be bad either). I got an Antec SX830 ($80) which allows 3 80mm fans in the front and 2 in the back (and their newer cases have a fan on the side next to your PCI cards). I didn't use the 300 watt PSU, and instead got a 350W PSU (Enermax Whisper). If your fans are slowing down from CPU draw sounds like you need a more powerful PSU (I've never heard of this happening so I dunno).

      Never plug your fans into the motherboard headers, power them directly from the PSU. Especially the CPU fan. Motherboard headers have the tendency to go bad, especially when your fan is drawing a good amount of current.

      Get a CPU heatsink that uses a 80mm fan. I've used a Swiftech MCX462 which is expensive but good. My choice these days would be a Thermalright SLK-800 or SK7. Proper application of silver thermal compound is a must, lookup how to do this before you do so (Arctic Silver's website has a good description).

      Buy all low power fans. I use a bunch of 80mm Panaflo's (Low Output, 24cfm, 21dBA). If you already have a bunch of loud fans, there is a way to use 5 or 7 volts instead of 12V to power the fans, make them run slower and quieter.

      Try to eliminate any blockages in air flow such as IDE cables in the way, PCI cards that could be placed lower, etc. You can place your drives higher so that the heat from them doesn't get blown over your CPU, though that can cause you to hear the drives more, so its a bit of a trade-off.

      If your CPU's multiplier is unlocked and you don't care about speed, you can underclock it if necessary. If its not unlocked, you can underclock the FSB, but that may be too much of a performance hit.

      Put the PC on the floor, rather on the desk. You'll hear it more if its at ear-level. Also, try to put it in a place where some of the sound gets blocked.

      If you do choose to go the watercooling route (not a bad idea), there are some easy ways of doing this. Look at Swiftech's Q-Power which is a water-cooled case that has everything setup for you and cost only a little more than their kit mentioned in this article. Koolance has some good products too.

      Finally, take a look at www.overclockers.com [overclockers.com], which is a great site even for non-overclockers. It is a good general computer hardware site as well as a great source for information on cooling. A lot of the information I just provided can be found in detail here.

      I've done most of the things I mentioned above. I can still hear my PC, but it is very quiet and runs cool and stable (I got an Athlon T-Bird 1.4GHz which is known to run hot). I never turn it off, I leave it on even when I go to sleep.

  • CPU compatibility? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Urchlay ( 518024 )
    According to this image (*):

    http://www.ocia.net/reviews/8500/liquid9.jpg ...this device is compatible with modern Intel and AMD CPUs. What I want to know is, will it work with my old slot 1 Pentium 3? My modern AMD CPU doesn't need to be overclocked (it's fast enough for me at 1753MHz), but my P3/600 running at 800MHz (or 1GHz even) would be sweet indeed... and unlike the new CPU, I don't mind taking the chance of blowing up the old one attempting to overclock it, since I've gotten a couple years of use out of it already, and it's `retired' now.

    * Does anyone else think it's ridiculous for a web designer to use a JPEG image to represent a block of text? Especially with such a tiny font size? The capital letter E in that image is 8x9 pixels, which is hard to see even for me, using a 21" monitor at 1440x1080. If I were using 1600x1200, I wouldn't even bother trying to read it, just click along to some other site... Also, if it weren't an image, I would have been able to copy & paste the text into this post. Of course, this rant complaining about it represents more keystrokes than it would take to type the text I wanted to paste. :)
    • Why would you want to use this on a Pentium 3? The kit costs $250. If you're going to spend that kind of money you might as well by a new board and an Athlon/Pentium 4. I can only see 2 reasons to use this.

      • To reduce noise
      • It looks cool
      • You're right.. I hadn't even looked at the price. Anyway, my post was mostly hypothetical, I wasn't actually about to buy one of these. Most likely I will hang on to the p3/600 forever, like I do everything else, in case I find a use for it.
    • I dunno, I can read it just fine on my 19" screen running at 1600x1200... But yes, I do believe they could have gone about doing it in a better way regardless ;-)
  • I've been thinking about this for a while (mostly for older CPU's, just as a way to possibly cut down noise), and I was wondering about hooking up external sources of the coolant, perhaps though a unused slots in the back of the computer. Hook up to an external pump/cooling system, and then connect multiple computers up to the same system (in parallel, so each gets cold incoming of course).

    I was curious about what other people think about this. A system like this one, with some modifications, seems to me like it would work fairly well. I'd just need different CPU cooling modules (Why not for everything Pentium and up?), so I can replace all my CPU cooling fans with liquid-cooling systems. Then I'd add coolant-filled pipes to the mess behind all my computers. :)
    • It's an interesting idea. However, you would have a single point of failure for all your computers. I understand that this is especially risky when using Athlon processors, since they can fry themselves in a matter of seconds when not cooled. Hopefully the thermal protections on the motherboards would protect against this, but still...
      • Yeah, that's true enough. I don't have any of the AMD's yet, although I'll be getting one of those before I get a new Intel chip. I'm sure my P3 600 wouldn't like to have no cooling for very long either.

        I'd just need to make sure I have backups in place, but redundancy would be build in anyway, cause I like to be careful. It would be interesting, I think, to have the whole house plumbed for heat transfer... stick the fridge in the system too, and the freezer, and use all that heat to do WORK, as opposed to just bleeding into the atmosphere. I'd need a big-ass pump for that though, but I think it would be cool.

        The added efficiency probably wouldn't be worth the added cost, but it's more of a hobby anyway, at least for now.
  • I'm not sure if it qualifies as /.'d yet but I found it painfully slow. Here's the summary from the last page:

    In conclusion, I find this kit to be very nice. Everything you will need for installation is included in the kit. Instructions are clear and pictures help to get the various points across clearly. Our particular instruction set was sent with the last page or so missing. I have been told that this was a simple error and that retail units ship with the full set of instructions. In the event that your instructions arrive incomplete, you can log on to Swiftech's site and print out your own copy. Installation was a breeze. This was my first time installing a watercooling kit and things couldn't have been easier.

    The fill and bleed process was simple as well. The first evening after installation, I noticed a few tiny air bubbles here and there in the system. These have since disappeared and the system is running flawlessly. Swiftech claims that this kit should run maintenance free. This means that you will not have to replace the coolant in your system every six months or so. This task is common among many watercooling users. Bacteria and other agents begin to grow inside the cooling loop. The coolant used in this kit prevents the growth of bacteria and other harmful things.

    Those who are looking for a quiet cooling solution for their PC should look no further. The H20-8500 kit provided nice temperatures at a very low noise level. With the case fans removed, the only fans I could hear in the system were those of the power supply. The pump is silent and has given me no problems. It is important to note that you will not receive stellar temperatures with this kit. The kit is designed for those who may have smaller cases and those who don't want to make extensive mods to their cases to accommodate a watercooling setup. The radiator used is quite small compared to others. The quiet fans used to cool the radiator indicate this system is not aimed for top performance. For those who like this kit but would like better performance, one could add another radiator assembly to the mix. Or if you can tolerate the added noise, a more powerful fan on the radiator will help to lower temperatures as well.

    The video card block has proven itself nicely. The block is easily mountable to both GeForce cards as well as Radeon cards. This is an added benefit to most users. Mounting procedures for both the GPU block and the CPU block were very easy. Gone from my system is the loud Crystal Orb that used to serve as my GPU cooler. Another great feature about this kit is the fact that you can remove it from your system with ease (but why would you want to?). I would say that within 10 minutes you could have the entire kit out of your computer. The only potential problem I could see with installing this kit would be trying to install the radiator assembly in one of those Chenming or similar type cases that use those purple plastic clips to hold the rear exhaust fans.

    Aside from this, I could find no other problems with the kit. The complete kit including the GPU block which we tested here today currently retails for $257.00, this kit is well worth the money. If you feel this kit would make a nice home in your case, head over to Swiftech and pick one up today. Below are a few pictures of the watercooling kit in my case. It appears as if the coolant has a bit of a UV reactive side to it...

    I would like to thank Swiftech for supplying us with this review unit.
    • Actually, it's NOT slashdotted ... there's something about the site that causes it to eat up your system resources. I watched my wmSMPmon DockApp while Mozilla loaded the page and it flat-topped one of my processors the whole time the page was open. I popped open a terminal and ran top ... sure enough,mozilla-bin was consuming approximately 99.5% of that processor's time.

      Getting curious, I opened it again and the page has some of the squirreliest Javascript I've ever seen and it seems to have the objective of loading and running a Shockwave object (in Mozilla!).

      Evaluation of the webmaster's IQ is left as an exercise for the reader.
  • Quoth the article:
    The disadvantages of watercooling are obvious; H20 and electrical components don't mix! Should a watercooling setup spring a leak while your system is on, you had better plan on purchasing some new hardware.

    Can we get a resume on this Shawn "playafly187" Knight before we accept his comments about any hardware subsystem? It seems to me that anyone who doesn't know that you don't use water in a liquid cooling system shouldn't be writing about "watercoolers". I though that the consensus opinion among those "in the know" was that you use ethylene glycol (undiluted antifreeze) if you're using it in conjunction with a Peltier device, or low molecular weight mineral oil if you're not.

    "playafly187" is correct ... water and electronics don't mix and that's why only non-conductive liquids should be used. Of course, since non-conductive liquids tend to be VERY messy, and CAN be toxic to humans and pets in a catastrophic leak situation, anyone running liquid-cooled would be well-advised to set their machine in a catch pan with enough capacity to hold the entire contents of their cooling system.

    "Water cooling is the wave of the future" ... hmmmm ... I doubt it ... the leak and toxicity hazards will probably prevent it from becoming mainstream. I personally think the wave of the future is higher efficiency processors (read Crusoe or something similar) that provide adequate performance.

    The name of the site tells it all. "OverClock Intelligence Agency" N3wz f0r 31337 g4m3rz and other clueless teenagers whose opinions don't matter ...
    • Ahem. Going back to HS chemistry, water has one of the highest heat capacities of any chemical compound. This means that one gram of water can hold a large amount of thermal energy--IIRC, about 4k J/gram. In the case of cooling computers, this means that water will absorb more heat per milliliter than just about any other chemical. Other non-conductive chemicals cannot hold as much heat and therefore are not as effective at cooling. However, 3M makes a particular chemcial which has a relatively high heat capacity (not nearly as much as water's, but more than other non-conductive checmicals). Its drawback is, of course, cost.
    • When is the last time you checked up on the state of affairs in liquid cooling?
      Peltiers are rarely used nowadays, because of their heat production and the condensation problems.
      If you read the article, you'll see that the kit that is reviewed is intended to be used with water, not ethylene glycol or mineral oil. It's a commercial product, not some geek's homebrewed contraption.
      Also, it is recommended to use distilled water with these kits, in case you have a leak. Although there's no guarantees, this should reduce the risk of a short circuit significantly, since distilled water is a poor electrical conductor.

  • According to the SwiftTech Web Site [swiftnets.com] the Kit reviewed in the article costs around $200 - $250 depending on the specific model you buy...

    Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to get the Evergreen Thermagic kit [evertech.com]? It's only $99 bucks and seems a lot easier to install. Of course, the Evergreen kit doesn't have green cooling liquid (actually, the liquid isn't visible [monkeyreview.com]).

    I guess if the look of the cooling kit is more important to ya, the SwifTech one might be worth paying double for. I'd personally prefer something quiet (the whole point of buying these kits) that doesn't consume a lot of power and is easy to install. Seems like the Evergreen kit [monkeyreview.com] is the better deal.

    Anyone out there own either of these kits? Any recommendations, preferences, horror stories?

  • I wonder how long it'll take before we see a backclash, the power consumption of the latest and greatest CPUs/GPUs/whatever keep going up. How many hundred watts will people accept? Could it be that people will start buying less than the latest and greatest, not because of price but because of heat and noise? Or will they always feel this "need" for more computing power?

    It's not really as if this has been an issue before the GHz race, it's only in the last couple years that it has had any serious impact, with the Athlon 1400 being the big bad wolf. Personally I'm running an AMD2000+/GF4/2HDDs, and the noise level is about as high as is acceptable to me. I look at the P4 3GHz spec, and the GF5 specs, and I really don't think I'll want one, at the price I have to pay in terms of heat and noise. Or well, when UT2006 comes out... ;)

    Kjella
  • Having installed an earlier swiftech kit, I can tell you it is not for the faint of heart. The gear is very well made, high-quality gear, but it does require some surgery on your case to mount an external radiator. It won't win any beauty contests for external aesthetics, but does give a kind of Frankenstein chic look. Bottom line: it does work really well. The 80mm fans basically silent compared to the hurricanes cooling most AMD's. You can also add video chipset headers if you need to. With RAM sinks and an aluminum case, that leaves only the power supply fan to contend with. If you want dead silent (and happen to be in Japan) check out the Hitachi Flora 270W water cooled laptop. Its a P4 1.8Ghz. It uses a hunk of machined aluminum mounted to the rear of the LCD as a radiator. The specs I saw were labeled in Japanese, so I am not sure if they are creating a bimetalic Peltier to pump heat out of the LCD as well.
  • DOS Beer: Requires you to use your own can opener, and requires you to
    read the directions carefully before opening the can. Originally only
    came in an 8-oz. can, but now comes in a 16-oz. can. However, the can is
    divided into 8 compartments of 2 oz. each, which have to be accessed
    separately. Soon to be discontinued, although a lot of people are going
    to keep drinking it after it's no longer available.

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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