Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Hardware

No Need to Upgrade that PC? 502

An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post (free reg.) has an interesting article about a developing trend in the computer retail business: People aren't buying new PCs. Why? Well, no suprise to those who read this, but grandma and Joe Sixpack don't need a screaming new P4 to surf the net and write letters. Are they just figuring this out?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

No Need to Upgrade that PC?

Comments Filter:
  • by NineNine ( 235196 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:42PM (#4743744)
    Hahaha... That's pretty funny. Especially considering W2K runs great on my old P 350, but Redhat makes the hard drive spin ad infinitum and opening a window in KDE or Gnome is a major undertaking. I actually can't run a Linux with a GUI on any of my machines. It's too damn slow. But, I can run W2K on any of 'em. Funny, huh?
  • As foretold... (Score:2, Informative)

    by ChTh ( 453374 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:49PM (#4743793)
    ...by almighty Cringely. [pbs.org]
  • by Alomex ( 148003 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:50PM (#4743802) Homepage
    This is a trend that has been going on now for about ten years now. The average upgrade time has been slowly moving up, from 12 months to 24 months over the last ten years IIRC. My guess is that average home computer upgrade time has moved from 2-3 years to 5-6 years (with the exception of gamers, who ofetn live on the cutting edge).

    For people to upgrade, they need to see sluggish performance. An upgraded GUI can soak tons of raw CPU power in ways that make you yearn for it (just ask the Mac folks about CPU consumption under the OS X GUI). Transparent windows, photo realistic icons, bayesian user interfaces, fully indexable content, database file system, you name it: these features can keep a P4 busy all day.

    Until then, a slow pentium at home is all I need to surf the web and read e-mail.

  • by J. J. Ramsey ( 658 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:54PM (#4743833) Homepage
    "windows can share a bunch data among different programs, in linux each program needs its own copy of the data (this is just my naieve view of things, i'm not a linux hacker)."

    Nope, that's not how it works. Programs using shared libraries all use the same library code in memory, just as in Windows. Integration has nothing to do with this. However, if NineNine's X server is misconfigured, or if he doesn't have accelerated support for his card, then X will be slower.
  • by Insightfill ( 554828 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:54PM (#4743838) Homepage
    SELF-DESTRUCT chip

    Like, perhaps, the infamous exploding/leaking capacitors of two weeks ago?

    Here? [slashdot.org]

  • by morgajel ( 568462 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:11PM (#4743937)
    or failing hard drives [slashdot.org]?
  • Re:Well... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Com2Kid ( 142006 ) <com2kidSPAMLESS@gmail.com> on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:33PM (#4744065) Homepage Journal
      • grandma and Joe Sixpack don't need a screaming new P4 to surf the net


      That all depends on the browser [mozilla.org].


    Actualy my 700mhz proccessor is getting dog slow rendering many shockwave videos now, to view the the fancier artistic ones, yes there are "artistic" shockwave videos, and yes they look reaallly good, I have to turn the quality setting in shockwave down to medium or even low!

    Ick.
  • by cymen ( 8178 ) <cymenvig.gmail@com> on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:39PM (#4744099) Homepage
    You could also look at underclocking Intel CPUs by running them at a lower voltage and megahertz (for example, run the 133mhz FSB CPUs at 100mhz and take the voltage down a bit). Then you can simply put a decent chunk 'o metal heat sink on there without a fan. Open up the power supply and replace the cheapie (or even spendy) but loud fan with a good low Db one. Buy 5400 RPM drives instead of 7200 RPM. Use a decent case that dampens the noise level.

    Or you could just put your server in another room.
  • by GeekZilla ( 398185 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:42PM (#4744116)
    I know I upgrade my Macs. I am currently upgrading my Umax S900 604e/225 to a G3/400 with additional SCSI drives, new/used IDE controller, 60GB IDE drive, USB/Firewire PCI card and another 256MB of memory. I'm looking at spending around $250-$300 (already had the 60MB hard drive sitting around).
    As for upgrading my PC or buying a new one, I've never had a compelling need to buy a newer/faster Windoze machine. My Pentium II/266 has over 300MB of RAM, an upgraded IDE controller, second hard drive, 8MB (upgraded from 4MB) VRAM and runs all the programs I need like a champ. The only thing I can't do is run games that require more than 8MB of VRAM. And if I wanted to, I would just by a new video card instead of a new computer. Why would I buy a new machine? My serious work and game playing I do on my 333MHz iMac or my 400MHz G4 tower. And eventually instead of buying a new G4 Tower, I will simply buy a processor upgrade card-or, wife permitting, a DUAL G4! (drool!) processor upgrade card- and a faster video card-maybe in two years.

    Well, to be truthful, I will upgrade to the new processor as soon as my wife....uh..our finances allow.
  • by Fulg0re- ( 119573 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:58PM (#4744228)
    The law of diminishing marginal utility basically states that the utility that any consumer derives from additional units of a particular product diminishes as total consumption of the product increases (if the consumption of all other products remains unchanged).

    For example, I am currently typing this on my P4 2.2GHz workstation. If I replace the CPU with a P4 2.4GHz, the utility that I gain will be marginal (ie: hardly any difference). In any case, I have to argue that it is all relative!

    I have a P3 1.3GHz laptop, and another P3 450MHz workstation, and for me to use those as my main workstation is just not possible anymore. Why? Well, believe it or not, there is a noticeable speed difference with all the machines - even for basic word processing and internet browsing. Sure there are architectural differences in terms of RAM, HD, etc, but the fact remains that there is a speed difference.

    Why is that important? Computers are used more than just for word processing and internet browsing. Playing games, watching movies, listening to music all require a decent amount of resources for the experience to be enjoyable. You're kidding yourself if you can really play (and more importantly enjoy) UT2K3 on anything less than P3 1GHz and less than a GF2. Don't tell me that you're getting 60fps, max details, 32-bit colour, at 1280x1024 because you're not.

    Nonetheless, we have to remember that CPU speeds are relative. The gaming industry is driving CPU speeds a lot more than say Microsoft is with productivity applications. But to say that you're 'happy' with your less than 1GHz machine with today's applications and games is kidding yourself a lot more than you realize. You'll never want to use a 'slow' machine as your main workstation when you've used something 'fast'. It's human nature after all.
  • memory (Score:3, Informative)

    by xx_chris ( 524347 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:05PM (#4744279)

    my mother's machine starting getting slower even though she only used it for email and surfing. The software had been upgraded and 32M wasn't enough. So I added 256M of memory for $50 et voila: happy mother. Bill isn't happy. Monkey-man isn't happy. But mom is doing just fine.

  • by lactose99 ( 71132 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:15PM (#4744349)
    Openbox [icculus.org] has font anti-aliasing (with XFree86 4.1+), opaque window moving, and it runs like a champ on a P75 laptop of mine. You can get alpha blending using psuedo-transparent terminal emulators like aterm [sourceforge.net].

    Then you also have drop shadows for window text, multiple workspaces (seems to be standard with every wm nowadays), window snapping and/or edge resistance (which I STILL wish Windows would include by default), and it only consumes a few hundred kbytes of RAM, leaving almost all of a system's resources available to applications.
  • by lactose99 ( 71132 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:22PM (#4744394)
    Pass on eBay, check Package 2 You [package2you.com] and NewEgg [newegg.com] for cheap new and refurbished hardware. Ever since Onsale @ Auction went away, I've been buying my upgrades from these guys. Usually as cheap (or cheaper) than most of the equivalents I've seen on eBay and most of it has some sort of warranty included.

    No, I don't work for either of these places, but as a purveyor of yesterday's hardware on the cheap, I feel obligated to pass on the places I have good experiences with.
  • by Graff ( 532189 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:52PM (#4744603)
    An upgraded GUI can soak tons of raw CPU power in ways that make you yearn for it (just ask the Mac folks about CPU consumption under the OS X GUI).

    Actually I am one of the Mac folk you speak of and I can say that it really doesn't slow things down much. The two big factors which caused people to perceive a slowdown were increased memory usage and a non-optimized operating system.

    Once you up your memory and upgrade to a more recent build of MacOS X (the most recent is 10.2.2), you find that it is pretty much as quick as the MacOSs that came before it. It is slower in some tasks and quicker in others, but overall there really isn't any performance degradation. In fact I would say that performance has actually gone up a bit, simply due to the fact that applications multitask much more smoothly. Another reason performance is up is that I never have to start up my computer anymore, I just leave it running 24/7. It uses almost no power when sleeping and starts up in a few seconds. That is certainly quicker than having to start up my computer every day, or to restart it when there is trouble with a piece of software.
  • Win95 B (Score:2, Informative)

    by RoundTop-VJAS ( 580788 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:59PM (#4744657)
    I have worked with this version and here is the low-down concerning it and USB.

    Windows 95 version B was an OEM only version of win95 that was released as a stopgap measure until 98 came out. you could only get it on a new computer. It fixed a lot of win95 bugs at the same time as adding a couple things...those are...

    You can download a PATCH from M$ for it that can give it LIMITED USB support. Most hardware manufacturers that make USB devices say 98 or higher because of the problems with the 95 version. Also, it could not support more than 1 USB device very easily. (In fact, if you install an Iomega Zip drive the driver install tells you that you will not be able to use any other USB devices on the port until you uninstall the iomega stuff).

    Hopefully this helps you.

  • by MtViewGuy ( 197597 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @05:03PM (#4745094)
    I think in today's economy, the next major burst of upgrade comes in four areas:

    1. Memory upgrades. You'll be amazed that many computer built before 2000 sport 64 MB of RAM at most. Given many of them use 168-pin DIMM's, they could be easily upgrade the RAM to 256 MB or well beyond that for a very reasonable price. And the benefits are immediate: since the need to use the hard drive as virtual memory is very low with computer that have memory upgrades, performance increases of 70 to 100 percent are not out of the question, not to mention substantially fewer system crashes, too.

    2. Hard drive upgrades. The switch to a 7200 RPM drive makes reading and writing data on a hard drive much faster. People shouldn't worry about ATA-66 or ATA-100 hard drives working on motherboards with ATA-33 connections, since they should be compatible in general. Sure, you won't get the full benefit of the ATA-66/100 data rate, but it would probably be much better than the old hard drive.

    3. Graphics card upgrades. Many older systems use old technology AGP slot graphics cards that are woefully underpowered to handle many of today's multimedia tasks. Cards such as the ATI Radeon 7000 or card that use the nVidia GeForce4 MX420 CPU of course won't offer cutting edge 3-D performance, but they're very reasonably priced and are still vastly better than the original cards.

    4. CPU upgrades. Don't laugh--if you have a motherboard that uses Slot 1 or Socket 370, there are now upgrades that can tremendously increase the speed of the computer. Powerleap is now selling CPU upgrades for Slot 1 and Socket 370 that uses the Tualatin-core Celeron and Pentium III CPU's running at well beyond 1 GHz CPU clock speed.

    Very likely, most people will spring for the memory upgrade first, since it's the cheapest solution and the one that has the most immediate benefits for all programs.
  • Re:Erm windows? (Score:2, Informative)

    by LittleLebowskiUrbanA ( 619114 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @05:09PM (#4745131) Homepage Journal
    I am forced to run XP on my laptop because of the sorry wireless in Linux. Recently I ran just about every tweak for XP at www. tweakhound.com and I am AMAZED? XP almost (almost!) feels like KDE 3.04 on my Debian desktop! Start Menu snaps into place, application run quicker and the bandwidth tweaks really worked. You really don't need all of the pretty GUI effects XP has. W/out those, you have Win2K w/ the System Restore, backwards compatible (rarely works but nice to have sometimes!) driver settings, and since Microsoft doesn't like to ship 2K anymore, you may have to learn to live w/ XP in an enterprise environment.

    Bottom line. Go to www.tweakhound.com Tweak XP and trade GUI effects for speed and less useage of graphics memory. Save said graphics memory for Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Of course, if you're running a desktop, you have no excuse not to run Linux and install Unreal Tournament 2003 (Linux installer on the 3rd disk) and frag away!
  • Re:what about macs? (Score:3, Informative)

    by tbmaddux ( 145207 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @05:24PM (#4745229) Homepage Journal
    Do people actually upgrade Macs?
    Yes. Three words, one kick ass website: Accelerate Your Mac! [xlr8yourmac.com]

    Drive/CPU/graphics card upgrade compatibility databases, and very detailed hardware upgrade and review articles with benchmarks are the real gems here. Front page has daily news updates for upgraders. The forums are good, but closed to newcomers.

  • by shellbeach ( 610559 ) on Monday November 25, 2002 @02:40AM (#4749176)
    I'm with you completely on GNOME and KDE, although GNOME has become quite a bit faster with GNOME2. As for GTK2, I haven't noticed any difference - on my desktop PC (Cel 500) any apps I've tried as both GTK1 and GTK2 load in around the same time - certainly with no noticable added latency. And if you want the bells and whistles that you seem to, such as aa text, you don't have much choice!

    Personally I use a combination of ROX [slashdot.org] for the desktop and IceWM [icewm.org] for the window-manager, both of which work just as fast on my laptop (an ancient P120) as on my desktop - in a word, near instantaneous. They're worth checking out if you like the idea of a desktop environment but don't like the associated crud that comes with GNOME and KDE. (The fact that ROX whips Konq or Nautilus in the file-management stakes is a pretty big reason too, of course :)

    As far as X's stability goes, I've only ever seen that keyboard/mouse lock-up situation twice in nearly five years of using linux, so I really can't agree. For me, X has been rock-solid, and even the standard apps I use with X tend to be incredibly stable. Hell, I reckon that the "unstable" GIMP is just about as stable as certain commercial COREL or Adobe products :)

    I think the main reason why linux *seems* slower from an end-user perspective is because of KDE (which gets installed as default by just about every distro these days). The first thing the user sees is a rather ugly, unreponsive piece of memory-hogging bloat-ware that has all the features he/she doesn't need (aa text, alpha-blended menus, etc) turned on to make it even slower. "What could be easier than opening the file-manager to find a file", the naive user thinks ... whooops! Guess which application takes half a minute to open a directory!

    (alright - I got fairly carried away there, I know KDE isn't that bad. But if I knew nothing about the open-source software concept or underlying OS stability, didn't care about pirating software, and was presented with a choice between Windows or KDE ... well, I know which one I'd choose, and it wouldn't be the one with the penguin on the front :)

THEGODDESSOFTHENETHASTWISTINGFINGERSANDHERVOICEISLIKEAJAVELININTHENIGHTDUDE

Working...