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Hardware

e.Digital Promises Another iPod Competitor 259

joefefifo writes: "e.Digital has a press release describing their Odyssey 1000, supposedly due out in the fall. Some stats: Looks like an iPod, uses USB 2.0., has a 20GB capacity, built-in mic for voice recording and navigation, FM Tuner with 12 presets, Mac & PC compatible, iTunes compatible, runs e.Digital's MicroOS 2.0. Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet. Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?" Like Toshiba's little player, it uses USB 2 rather than Firewire.
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e.Digital Promises Another iPod Competitor

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    if there's an FM tuner and a HD, it should be able to do tivo-like replays of radio shows you like.
  • Slashdotted (Score:2, Redundant)

    by Cardhore ( 216574 )

    (SAN DIEGO, CA - July 22, 2002) - It's sleek, it's powerful, it has the capacity to download 4,800 songs, or 400 CDs, at lightning-quick speed -- and it's PC and Mac compatible. e.Digital Corporation (OTC: EDIG) today announced its new Odyssey 1000TM digital jukebox and data storage device, its premier digital audio player. Powered by e.Digital's MicroOS 2.0, the Odyssey 1000 combines the best of e.Digital's digital audio technology into one stellar, feature-packed unit.

    Jim Collier, President and COO of e.Digital said, "The Odyssey 1000 sets the standard by which all other portable entertainment products will now be judged. It is the result of our first joint project with our strategic development partner Digitalway. It combines an elegant, world class industrial design from Digitalway's award-winning engineering team with e.Digital's state-of-the-art, patented audio technology. There is nothing else available that matches its elegant looks, full range of features, and cutting-edge Drag 'n RipTM technology."

    The Odyssey 1000, which will be available to consumers this fall, boasts superb sound quality and outstanding battery life, with a minimum of 13 hours of playback time. The feature-rich Odyssey 1000 has a 20 Gigabyte hard drive for optimum MP3 and Windows MediaTM WMA playback and doubles as a data storage unit for movies, spreadsheets, e- books, and more. Its stainless steel, sleek industrial design only enhances the aesthetic appeal of this digital audio powerhouse, which is small enough to fit in a pocket or purse.

    The Odyssey 1000's high-speed USB 2.0 connection and remarkable ease of use make downloading and transferring music a breeze. With the Odyssey 1000's USB 2.0 connection, users can transfer an entire CD to their player in about 5 seconds. And e.Digital's Drag 'n Rip technology enables users to transfer music in one easy step simply by dragging tracks directly from a CD directory onto their player's hard drive. Drag 'n Rip optionally enables users to create a mirror library of music on their computer. The Odyssey 1000 also is compatible with Mac iTunes TM.

    Another outstanding feature is the Odyssey 1000's voice navigation capabilities. The Odyssey 1000 uses e.Digital's VoiceNavTM user interface based on Lucent's speech recognition technology so users can navigate through their libraries of music simply by the power of their own voice. It also has an easy-to-use scroll wheel for effortless manual navigation. In addition, the Odyssey 1000 is a voice recorder that comes with a built-in microphone for hours of voice recording on its massive hard drive.

    Collier added that, "This is a product that will have broad appeal to both Mac and PC users. It provides them with a full suite of features and advanced technology not currently available from any other product on the market. It also will be subscription enabled and fully compatible with our subscription content partners, soon to be announced. Its intuitive user interface and ease of navigation will appeal to all age groups. Anyone who likes music and books will love the Odyssey 1000."

    Furthermore, the Odyssey 1000 comes with music preloaded by e.Digital's Broadband Entertainment Business Unit so users can immediately start enjoying music on their player. The Odyssey 1000 also has an FM tuner with 12 available station presets and 16 MB DRAM buffering for robust anti-skip protection and increased battery life.

    The standard Odyssey 1000 package will include e.Digital Music ExplorerTM 2.0 software for PC (featuring Drag 'n Rip technology), carrying case with belt clip, an installation CD and manual, stereo earphones, USB 2.0 cable with standard and mini connectors, a universal DC adaptor/battery charger, and RCA audio cable for home stereo connection.

    The Odyssey 1000's Drag 'n Rip technology, voice navigation capabilities, and preloaded content make it absolutely unparalleled among its peers. The much-anticipated Odyssey 1000 will be available to consumers this fall.

    The versatile Odyssey 1000 includes the following features:



    Features:
    • 20 Gigabyte hard drive
    • 13-hour minimum playback time
    • Mac and PC compatible
    • Mac iTunesTM compatible
    • Drag 'n Rip copies music directly from CD to player
    • USB 2.0 high-speed download
    • Typical USB 2.0 transfer rate: 8 Megabytes per second (MBps)
    • Voice navigation using VoiceNavTM technology
    • Built-in microphone for voice recording
    • MP3, Windows MediaTM (WMA), and WAV file playback
    • FM tuner with 12 preset stations
    • 16 MB DRAM anti-shock buffering
    • Five-band equalizer with 5 presets and 1 user-defined setting
    • Approximate dimensions: 2.87" x 4.3" x 0.9" (73mm x 110mm x 22.8mm)
    • Blue backlit electro-luminescent LCD with adjustable settings
    • Internal real-time clock
    • WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support
    • Combined audio out and remote control jack
    • Multi-language support via firmware upgrade
    • Playlist creation through user interface
    • Firmware upgradeable
    • Lithium-Polymer rechargeable battery charges in 4 hours



    About e.Digital
    e.Digital Corporation offers an engineering partnership for the world's leading electronics companies to link portable digital devices to PCs and the Internet. e.Digital develops and markets to consumer electronics manufacturers complete end-to-end solutions for delivery and management of open and secure digital media with a focus on music, voice and video players/recorders, and automotive infotainment and telematics systems. Other applications for e.Digital's technology include portable digital music players and voice recorders; desktop, laptop, and handheld computers; PC peripherals; cellular phone peripherals; e-books; video games; digital cameras; and digital video recorders. Engineering services range from the licensing of e.Digital's patented MicroOSTM file management system to custom software and hardware development, industrial design, and manufacturing services. For more information on the company, please visit www.edig.com [edig.com].To shop in the e.Digital online store, please visit www.edigital-store.com [edigital-store.com].

    # # #

    Safe Harbor statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform of 1995: This document contains forward-looking statements relating to future performance, technology and product development that may affect future results and the future viability of the company. Actual results could be affected or differ materially from those projected in the forward- looking statements as a result of risks and uncertainties, including future products and results, technological shifts, potential technical difficulties that could delay new products, competition, general economic factors, and conditions in the markets in which the company operates, pricing pressures, the uncertainty of market acceptance of new products and services by OEM's and end-user customers, and other factors identified and discussed in the Company's most recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These forward-looking statements are based on information and management's expectations as of the date hereof. Future results may differ materially from the Company's current expectations.


    Note: e.Digital, Music Explorer, MicroOS 2.0, Drag 'n Rip, VoiceNav and Odyssey are registered trademarks of e.Digital Corporation. Windows Media is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation. All other company, product, and service names are the property of their respective owners.


    CONTACT:

    Media Contact: Lisa Stevens, (858) 679-1504, PR@edig.com [mailto]
    Investor Relations Contact: Robert Putnam, (858) 679-1504, robert@edig.com [mailto]


  • Gotta hate people ripping off Apple design just to rip off Apple design.

    But, on the other hand, if the new ideas like up to muster, this sounds extremely useful. Listening to the radio, replacing--perhaps--the mini tape recorder, and hopefully it can be sold for cheaper.
  • Get over it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by G-funk ( 22712 ) <josh@gfunk007.com> on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:42PM (#3934260) Homepage Journal
    Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet

    Huh? Except for the choice of OS? This goes too far. Who gives a crap if they don't use linux? It's not like it runs windows, it runs some OS they wrote, that does what it needs to do - play mp3s. If it works, and it does what it's supposed to do, good on them.

    Now I'm all for somebody getting one and putting linux on it, but that's "hey a cool hack" value, not something that needs to be done to make the product worthwhile.
    • by Cardhore ( 216574 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:55PM (#3934314) Homepage Journal
      Yeah, I agree. It's not like F-22s or anything really care what operating system they're running, so why should a portable music player?
    • I'm with you. I don't care what OS it runs. All I care is that I can operate it from the OS I run on my desktop.
    • Huh? Except for the choice of OS? This goes too far. Who gives a crap if they don't use linux? It's not like it runs windows,

      Actually since the device plays Microsoft .WMA files it probably does run a Microsoft embedded O/S.

      But I really could not give a hoot whether it runs Linux or not, although it must be said that running Windows is a major plus when you want to tweak some Linux-bore droning on about how the fsck command in Linux is ten times better than anything Microsoft have got to offer in Windows XP and how he has it on good authority from a friend that Bill Gates is a gerbilling afficionado etc. etc.

      • Well, I'm going to assume you meant winXP like some AC, although IIRC, they have an embedded version. But they wouldn't necessarily need to run a version of Windows to play .wma, they just need to license the appropiate code to use it (codecs?).
      • Contrary to popular belief, Microsoft will license and has written wma decoding libraries for embedded things other than windows such as DSP based hardware CODEC's - feed them a wma bitstream and they spit out audio.

        Needless to say, there is no embedded windows in this thing. Using embedded windows (requiring beefy hardware compared to the probably 2 dsp's and a small microcontroller such an mp3 player would actually require) would do nothing except cut into the profit of the company making the player (licensing fees for the whole OS + the cost of the more expensive hardware to run it) and decrease things like battery life.

  • Digital??? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 )
    Digital??? You mean Compaq???? Er... you mean Hewlett-Packard???
  • Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet. Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

    Jeez, concentrate on more important things running linux, like a toaster, for example. [k12.or.us]
  • Seriously, this is no better than any other USB MP3 player for us Mac users. Remember, no Apple machines come with USB 2.0, although you can add a USB 2.0 card to PowerMacs. Therefore, you will still get horrible transfer speeds. Why can't other manufacturers just use FireWire?
  • DRM support (Score:4, Interesting)

    by NiceGeek ( 126629 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:44PM (#3934270)
    I don't care how cool it looks...I'm not supporting any device that has DRM support.
    • DRM is just there in case someone wants to listen to content that has DRM protections included. Other than the MS's licensing fees you inevitably pay, you're free to use it or ignore it, it's your choice. Inclusion of DRM won't hinder your ability to use it as an MP3 player.


      (I'm sort of in the same position: I work for a company who is including MS DRM in the product I'm working on. I justify it by noting that I don't work on it, and if MS were to be sued out of existance tommorow, the product can still work admirably as an MP3 player)

    • Correct (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by sulli ( 195030 )
      Don't give them your money:

      Features:
      WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support

      iPod has NO DRM and works great. Stick with it to avoid getting fucked.

  • Heard it before (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AIXadmin ( 10544 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:44PM (#3934272) Homepage
    When the iMac came out, this same thing happened. With in six months there were rip offs from such notables as Dell, Gateway, and IBM. None of nock-offs have survived. The iMac is still around and selling well.

    Apple just seems to have some kind of magic when it comes to product design. That few others if any have.
    • Re:Heard it before (Score:4, Insightful)

      by deviator ( 92787 ) <bdp@amnes[ ]org ['ia.' in gap]> on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:51PM (#3934304) Homepage
      It's not magic - it's the right mix of very smart people combined with management who lets those designers (really artists) realize their vision with few restrictions.

      ...ever notice how Apple isn't constantly concerned with "make it as cheap as possible?" Sometimes it seems they're the ONLY company who won't compromise ideals in favor of cost; that's why their designs are so successful.

      • Re:Heard it before (Score:1, Insightful)

        by krypto246 ( 567378 )
        Their "design" magic is putting all the most expensive features that are avalible into whatever product they make. Yes, that results in higher quality products, it also results in decades of mediocre sales for Apple. I love their designs as much as the next person, but choosing cheaper features isn't sacrificing ideals, its good business.
  • by mstra ( 38238 ) <matt.stratton@gmail . c om> on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:44PM (#3934274) Homepage Journal
    I got a Treo 10 several months ago (early in 2002), and the thing was truly no good.

    Software never was able to consistently connect to the device, it's a TON heavier than my iPod, and I swear, the thing RATTLES.

    I'll stick with my iPod, thanks.

    m.
  • Archos Jukebox (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chaidawg ( 170956 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:46PM (#3934282)
    Can anyone explain to me why people think there are no options for a PC based portable MP3 player? I have had the 20g Archos Jukebox for five months now and I couldn't be happier with it. Sure it only uses USB 1, but how often do you need to fill 20 gigs?

    I put my 5 gigs of music on it overnight when I first bought it and spend a couple of minutes each week putting on my new music. All of that with 2 sets of rechargable 6 hour life batteris for $300. I will admit that the UI is not as pretty as on the iPod but for the price and size difference, I don't care.

    If you want to take a look at one go to archos.com [archos.com]

    • It is huge, heavy, and doesn't run as long on the batteries as an ipod. Also ugly.
    • Re:Archos Jukebox (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kevinv ( 21462 )
      I refill the 10GB on my iPod weekly. I'm at about 26 GB of MP3s (with still more cd's to convert yet) and it's easier to just delete everything on the iPod and upload whatever set of playlists i'm in the mood for.

      No way would i go with a USB 1 device for over 250MB.
      • I agree that for you the archos would be no good. But how many people have that much music. Even at a sample rate of 320 that's what? Over 4000 songs. I am a recent graduate and even at school with the unlimeted bandwidth(ish) And I can only think of 1 person who had close to that many. Added to that that if you download your music (128 KB) you would have close to 10 thousand songs.
        • 192 Kbps. Roughly 4700 tracks, all from CDs I own (some of my classical CD's are like 5 tracks on an hour CD). Not quite done converting all I own yet. I don't download too much at the moment.

          Yes, I am a CD buying junkie. One of those people the RIAA refuses to believe exists.
      • Every week.

        It sounds like few people really NEED that many GBytes...
    • I just bought a 10gb Archos Jukebox on E-Bay for a decent price... I'm just a bit worried about the battery life, but this should be perfect for working out. No more listening to CNN in the corporate weightroom!
    • Can anyone explain to me why people think there are no options for a PC based portable MP3 player?

      Maybe because noone's really takling about an PC based (HD) MP3 player?
      They're talking about an iPod competitor (see story title). What makes the iPod so special? Here's a /. post [slashdot.org] I made earlier about the issue.

      Really there's a world of difference.

      Note: I don't own an iPod, it's a bit too expensive for me :-(

      • I fail to see how the Archos isn't an iPod Competitor. Your points in the linked post all are talking about MP3CD players -- there is no comparison.

        Form factor: The archos is only slightly larger than the iPod -- the iPod dimensions are 4.2" x 2.43" x 0.78" while the archos' are 4.5 x 3.2 x 1.3"; it fits in my coat pocket just fine.

        Hard drive == skip resistant, you say. Umm, exactly. Both the iPod and Archos are basically portable hard drives.

        You are right that the 'charge while you transfer' capability of the iPod is more convenient than the Archos' 'charge with an AC adapter', but last I checked being a competitor didn't mean having an identical feature list. And it's true that the Archos uses batteries, but I wouldn't really know it. I've used the thing daily for about 6 months now and have never had to change them. I've never even run out of juice, despite using it extensively without charging. It seems like more than 6 hours.

        The current Archos models support USB2, which is more or less equivalent to firewire in terms of transfer rate.

        So again, remind me how the iPod and the Archos Jukebox aren't competitors?

  • by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:46PM (#3934283) Homepage Journal
    Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?

    All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.

    Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.

    And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair. Why do I need to buy another laptop drive when I got so many sitting around?

    • Its called a PJB100 (on of Compaqs science projects)

      www.mp3factorydirect.com
    • It's good to know that there's someone else out there thinking the same damned thing. I find it a bit odd that MP3 CD players are selling for less than $60, but you can't tack on an MP3 player to any of the existing USB/USB2/FW enclosures out there. Of course, I'd probably want a 3.5 incher so I could drop a spare 30G into it and take my whole collection with me.

      Damnit...I checked the link in the other reply - Cool, but $200 too much :-(

    • One, the average user - you know, the kind that thinks Yahoo is cool and is scared of command prompts - is not going to be very willing to install his or her own hard drive. Yes, I know, it's simplicity itself, but too many people have an unreasoning fear of computer parts, and will not touch them. Period.

      Two, the whole trend is towards more digital rights management, which is all about controlling what goes on a player. Forcing the user to buy a unit with the hard drive sealed in, and loading music using proprietary software, makes controlling what goes on the player much easier than letting people use their own drives.

      Also, I hope when you say "ROM", you mean flashable ROM - it would stink if you were stuck with only the formats available when the unit came out, and couldn't upgrade to new standards later.
      • Well for starters,

        A laptop hard drive has all the pins, power included built into one 44 pin micro molex connector. Other than changing a jumper, they would just have to slide it in.
        • My mom is still scared of the idea, and the average user is not that much more savvy than my mom. (Hi, mom!)
    • Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?

      Have you see my little open-source mp3 player circuit board project [pjrc.com]?? Yes, a shameless plug, but on-topic. I have the Neo guys also sell a box that you can plug your own drive into... or at least they did some time ago.

      All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.

      Saddly, there's nothing simple about pretty plastic boxes and li-ion batteries. Injection molding involved tooling costs in the range of $20k to $60k. Li-ion batteries are complex and take special circuits. They're only sold to a small number of companies who make custom battery packs (because the packs include critical safety circuits). High tooling setup fees also apply to Li-ion battery packs.

      Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.

      Yep, did that. It's all GPL'd too, available from a CVS server, or on this firmware download page [pjrc.com].

      And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair.

      That would be fair, if you and millions of others were serious buyers.

      But the do-it-yourself market is a niche, and the economy of scale associated with mass production just isn't possible. Still, I've tried to keep the costs low (and also keep it buildable for hobbists with hand soldering). By the time you add the LCD, it's at about twice the "fair" $100 mark. If you go price the parts alone (not even soldered together) at small quantity, you'll find you're well over $100. If you're Creative Labs or Apple building millions in China, you can make it that cheap, but a niche market as small volumes, it just isn't possible.

      Anyway, later this year I'm planning to make a car stereo cd changer protocol emulator board, so this thing can emulate a cd changer (but with lots of discs with lots of files... depends on the limitations of each deck and its protocol).

      • Oh yeah i've seen your Mp3 player a ton of times, even posted it in a /. comment once. I never knew the PRJC author hung out here!

        You are absolutely right though on the economies of scale thing, only way something could be sold at a reasonable cost is to build a bunch of them, and it's not too clear if the public is ready for a device that uses an internal component from a laptop, it sounds scary!

        One of these days, when i'm working again and not losing weight to this pay the mortgage eat ramen diet I might get one of your units cause they are about the coolest and closest thing to what I want.

        --Toq
    • Contact these people
      IO Magic [iomagic.com]

      They used to sell the Neo 2200 without a hard drive. Now it seems to only be available with a 20 Gig drive, but if you asked they might sell it without a drive.
  • What this has that iPod doesn't: support for Digital Rights Management.
  • slashdot is composed entirely of rabid linux monkeys.

    Why don't you try using the OS first, instead of demanding that a barely functional replacement be put on it? I can't see people using linux on the desktop, let alone a palm form-factor device. Can't you just be glad that there is a new device with advanced features that ISN'T running MS bloatware?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:54PM (#3934309)
    Many, many people see e.digital as being nothing more than a pump-and-dump penny stock scam, and there certainly is enough evidence to back it up.

    This article barely touches the depth of shady deals this company is engaged in:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/bauder /20020707-9999_1b7bauder.html [signonsandiego.com]

    They've announced several vaporware mp3 players, which caused a stock pump, and when nothing panned out the 'dump' came and the stock once again dropped. The few units they were able to manufacture are now being liquidated on ebay and various liquidator companies.

    Most recently, the company has engaged in extremely questionable financial arrangements in order to stay afloat - they recently took out a $1.5 million loan with 100% of their company's assets as colatteral, to a shady off-shore entity, in a clear case of death-spiral financing.

    This company currently has several hundred million outstanding shares, and is still issuing more.

    The principals of the company have made something of a career out of pump-and-dump companies - look at the histories of Patriot Scientific (java procesor hype) and ATC (hyped audio technology). They're also involved in promoting movies and solo-flying machines. All the same gang. Decades of scam companies, lies and misleading statements to shareholders, and never once a real product or profits.

    E.Digital does not deserve in any way to get this kind of exposure on slashdot.

    (Disclaimer: I have never owned any shares, but I do know several people who were hoodwinked into purchasing shares, and lost a huge amount of money.)
    • I still find it amazing that they are still in business. Saw them at CES and was under welmed. Like you said, they've been promoting their advanced MP3 players for something like 3 years and have not much to show for it.

      If you're a gambler, one more pump/dump might be in their bag-o-tricks....

      LoB
    • As soon as I saw the photograph of E Digital's player, I immediately suspected that it was a total iPod knock-off and came to the reader messages to see if anyone had the inside scoop. It will be interesting to see if this product is actually released.
    • by HEbGb ( 6544 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @09:15PM (#3934409)
      I'll have to agree, based on what I know about them. From $0.05 to $24, and back to $0.45, all without profit or real sales, is quite a ride.

      There's quite an active discussion of them over at the Reging bull [lycos.com] stock chat site.

      A very long but extremely informative post about these financial issues is here [lycos.com].
  • by -tji ( 139690 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @08:54PM (#3934310) Journal
    Wow, look at that feature list... 20GB storage, 16MB buffer, AM/FM radio, and best of all:

    # WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support

    Those marketroids really know how to sell a product. I'm sure customers will be clamoring for that feature.
    • ... WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support ... I'm sure customers will be clamoring for that feature ...

      Actually, they are. Drop an audio CD into a Windows PC and Windows Media Player will want to rip it into WMA files. You have to get 3rd party software for MP3 ripping. So yes, it is a very good business move to support WMA and the DRM that comes along with it.
    • It's not so much that it has DRM as it supports DRM as in if you have any WMA files that are protected you can play them on this player. If it required DRM it would suck, but it doesnt as in the main format is MP3
  • I think it's great that we're seeing more and more USB 2.0 implementations. It's easier and 480Mbps is better than Ethernet by far. Though I wouldn't mind getting a gigabit ethernet card.
  • USB 2? Why?! I want Firewire! Is this too much to ask for?
  • Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

    I think the bigger question is, will it play Vorbis? I'd kill for a high quality Vorbis player other than the Zaurus.
  • Looks like there is something in this device which shouldn't be there:

    WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support On one side, we /.'ers run around screaming about DRM and the other side our favorite site (/.) runs stories like these. Seems like no one here knows what they truely stand for. I call for a boycott!!!

    I guess I will stick to the iPOD.

  • wtf? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tomstdenis ( 446163 )
    Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

    WTF does that have todo with anything? I bet your wrist watch doesn't run linux either...

    Seriously people. There is dedicated then there is stupid. Guess which one this articles' poster is.

    Tom
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Is it compatible with the Odyssey [pong-story.com]? Can I play pong on it?
  • the firewire/power port on the ipod is one of the primary breakthoughs about it! who the hell wants to transfer 20G over USB?
    • Why not? It's no slower than firewire.

      Firewire is 400 Mbps. USB 2.0 is 480 Mbps.

      And you *know* USB 2.0 will be on every new PC in less than a year (it's already on newer mb's and such), but firewire isn't remotely universal?
      • Firewire has a SUSTAINABLE rate of 400 Mbps. USB 2.0 has a MAXIMUM rate of 480, but as usual, in practice its a lot less. The whole USB 2.0 thing really is a sham (its a shame really).
      • Re:usb 2? (Score:3, Informative)

        nVidia's new nForce2 chipset has USB 2.0 and FireWire support. I have seen firewire on the front panel of some Compaqs (a little while ago). It is available on Dells. I can't speak for anything else, as I don't regularly go computer shopping. The latest in MicroATX computers (Shuttle) have FireWire onboard.

        Sure, USB 2.0 is a bit faster. But it incurs more host overhead (especially communicating between two devices) and doesn't offer as much power.

        USB 2.0 would be great if FireWire didn't already exists. It is not needed, and the decision between USB 2.0 and FireWire hurts people's ability to purchase new devices.

        USB 1.1 is fine for what it is: high speed serial ports. Keyboards, mice, tablets, floppy drives, low-end webcams, some scanners... It doesn't need to be more than that. FireWire is physically as easy, and is a more versatile technology.

      • USB 2.0 will run at 480 Mbps in a best case scenario. Firewire will always run at 400. Why? Firewire is peer-to-peer, USB x.0 requires CPU intervention.

        And comparing Firewire 1.0 to USB 2.0 is a tad unfair, because Firewire 2.0 (1394b), ramping up this year, will run at 800 Mbps.

    • Transferring 20G over USB1.1 would be a pain. Using USB2.0, on the other hand... look here: USB2.0 vs FireWire [digit-life.com].
      • Re:usb 2? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by gerardrj ( 207690 )
        That page you linked to shows that USB-2.0 real-world througput is often 1/2 that of FireWire when talking to the same device.
        So the question remains... if FW and USB2 PCI cards cost about the same, and FW is masterless, is faster, and is already standard on so many devices, WHY use USB2?

        • Re:usb 2? (Score:2, Insightful)

          by bryanp ( 160522 )
          Simple - wide availablity / convenience.

          If your customer buys a USB2 device and only has USB1.1 (which almost anybody does) they can upgrade their computer, or they can just deal with the slower speed. Either way they can still use the device. With Firewire they have no choice - if they don't have a Firewire port, they have to upgrade.

          And y'know what? If you're used to USB1.1, then 2 will seem like lightning. It's only by comparison to something most users have never experienced that it suffers.

          Not saying I like it, but that's the reason.
  • USB? Ugh. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by __david__ ( 45671 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @09:49PM (#3934551) Homepage
    Why do all these companies think that USB 2.0 is ok? Has anyone ever benchmarked USB 2.0? It is sssssslllllooooowwww! [1] Some needs to smack these designers and make them put a REAL bus (like FireWire) on these devices. When you are talking about significant ammounts of data its very important that your bus be as fast as it can be. Sadly, USB 2.0 just doesn't cut it.

    I've been waiting for some company to come out with an iPod competitor to drive the prices down, but no one is going to be able to compete (in my mind) until they make a FireWire version.

    -David

    [1] We've run many tests at our company with USB 2.0 and FireWire to ATA bridges, and without fail the USB 2.0 are (at best!) half the speed of FireWire. This is especially pathetic when you see that USB's max bandwidth is 480 Mbits, and FireWire is 400. I don't know if its inefficient protocols, crappy drivers, crappy host bus chips or crappy bridge chips but whatever it is USB 2.0 is substandard. Avoid it.
    • Re:USB? Ugh. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by iphayd ( 170761 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @10:55PM (#3934811) Homepage Journal
      "This is especially pathetic when you see that USB's max bandwidth is 480 Mbits, and FireWire is 400."

      This is the only incorrect statement in your post, and it is also why your results are crappy.

      It should read...

      "USB2's results are so pathetic because its max. bandwith is 480Mbps, while firewire has a sustained rate of 400Mbps."

      USB2's 480Mbps is FUD, aimed squarely across Firewire's bow. The pathetic thing is that it is working.
  • by Scyber ( 539694 ) on Monday July 22, 2002 @10:24PM (#3934697)
    Is greater than Firewire Ready Computers. That is the simple reason why they supported USB2.0. Granted using it on USB 1.0 would be slow, but at least it can be used. If you were a 3rd party company looking to sell a product to as many people as possible you would make the same choice too.
    • but the number of firewire computers is > than the number of USB 2.0 ready computers.

      USB 2.0 devices usually work with USB 1 computers, but the speed sucks (and IMO for a 10GB device is unusable).

      Of course the real reason most media players go with USB 2 over Firewire -- USB is royalty free, Firewire requires royalties paid to Apple.

      So the iPod for Windows gives an additional little kickback to Apple when the owner has to buy a Firewire card too.
  • I would buy this odyssey gadget. I love it's looks. It seems to have some good features as well. Wonder what the price tage will be?
  • Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet

    Ignoring the first part, it doesn't look sweet at all. Lets just ignore all the specs and just look at the thing.

    Now I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to fork out over 300 UKP for a product, I damn well want it to actually look like it's worth that amount.

    The Treo 15 [edigital-store.com] looks like it was made by Fisher Price [fisher-pricestore.com]. Quite frankly it looks revolting.

    The Odyssey 100 looks like a iPod. Well sort of. Horrific pink lettering, four buttons and what looks like some sort of jog dial in the middle. Also it looks like it's made from cheap plastic.

    I'm sorry that's not an iPod competitor. As someone else put it, it's a cheap knock-off from a company that can't design a good looking product to save their life.

  • Yeah, it looks exactly like an iPod in different colors, and I guarantee you that if this product isn't vaporware and it ships that they'll have a massive suit on their hands for violation of Apple's no doubt inconsiderable amount of intellectual property connected to the iPod's design (Trademarks and perhaps even design patents).

    This makes me think it's vaporware, perhaps part of the stock scheme mentioned in another thread-- no legit company would be so utterly stupid in opening themselves up to suit. Even eMachines made a few vague attempts in their design to look only sort of like an iMac.

    IAAL, though this is only my personal opinion and shouldn't be relied on for actual legal advice.

  • I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars on one of these devices unless it supports my .ogg files!

    I suppose I'll be waiting for a while yet, but how hard is it for one of these companies to provide a development environment? These things really ought to be PDAs. Once people can get into the guts of the system, ogg support should be doable.

Two can Live as Cheaply as One for Half as Long. -- Howard Kandel

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