MP3 for Gameboy 163
sluggo140 writes: "Cnet has an article regarding a new startup called SongPro that is devloping an add-on for Gameboy and Gameboy Advance. The add-on will play various music formats including MP3."
All power corrupts, but we need electricity.
Mp3 on Regular Gameboy? (Score:1)
Re:Mp3 on Regular Gameboy? (Score:2)
CPU: 8-bit (Similar to the Z80 processor.)
Main RAM: 8K Byte
Video RAM: 8K Byte
Screen Size 2.6"
Resolution: 160x144 (20x18 tiles)
Max # of sprites: 40
Max # sprites/line: 10
Max sprite size: 8x16
Min sprite size: 8x8
Clock Speed: 4.194304 MHz (4.295454 MHz for Super GB)
Horiz Sync: 9198 KHz (9420 KHz for Super GB)
Vert Sync: 59.73 Hz (61.17 Hz for Super GB)
Sound: 4 channels with stereo sound
Power: DC6V 0.7W (DC3V 0.7W for GB Pocket)
So, basically, any mp3 player for gameboy will be doing all the processing, storage, and DSP *in the cartridge* while using the Gameboy's integrated controls and speakers for playback.
DRM: Permission denied (Score:5, Funny)
Re:DRM: Permission denied (Score:1)
Or, Punch the Monkey... *shutters*
Missed opportunity for Ogg Vorbis (Score:2, Insightful)
I see two and a half proprietary file formats in there and zero non-proprietary (read: Ogg Vorbis) formats there. Not to carp on xiph.org or any other developers or marketers for Ogg Vorbis, but this is the kind of platform and opportunity that could help to make a free-as-in-beer, open source audio codec like Ogg Vorbis a player in the portable audio world.
Hey, it's not like it isn't possible. This thing can do multiple file formats. Why not another with Ogg Vorbis?
Re:Missed opportunity for Ogg Vorbis (Score:2)
That said, is their even a chip capable of decoding Ogg? Without hardware support, it seems unlikely devices like this will ever support Ogg. Having a general purpose processor with a software decoder is just too expensive, and has too much overhead to be worth doing within the tight resources of handhelds.
Re:Missed opportunity for Ogg Vorbis (Score:2)
Re:Missed opportunity for Ogg Vorbis (Score:1)
Re:Missed opportunity for Ogg Vorbis (Score:1)
#!/usr/bin/tcsh
while (1)
do
text =`lynx -source 'http://www.slashdot.org/'`
SEARCH = `awk '{if (index($0,"MP3")) {print "BINGO"}}'`
if (${SEARCH}==BINGO)
endif
done
Not the first time (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not the first time (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course this will probably remain more of a tech-toy than a mass-market attactor, but if it gets kids (and who else is going to use a GBA as an MP3 player rather than just buying the real deal), into working with technology and specifically computing, BOOH YAH!
I have a kid sister, who has consistently anoyed me for the past 12 years or so with requests for assistance with one PC issue or another. Yesterday I went back to the folks place for a visit and found her sitting at a table playing with those new cell-phone mods. Totally geeked out, little screwdrivers all around, cell bits scatered over about a square meter of table space. Suddenly my heart swelled with joy, and I forgot how much I hated nokia for all those stupid little mods.. they get people teched out. Anything, Everything, that introduces folk young and old to the idea that it is Okay to go into the gutts of their machine and muck around, is better for the tech world in the long run.
Though maybe not for geek salaries.. hmmm
-GiH
This is your mind, This is your mind roasting on the back of a Celeron overclocked to 1.3 gigahertz. Any Questions?
Re:Not the first time (Score:1)
It's been out for a couple years (Score:2)
This is the same company, and pretty much the same product, only in a version for the GameBoy Advance. I would expect to see similiar market penetration for the GBA model as there was for the original. Which was negligible, in case everyone's lack of knowledge of the earlier product hasn't made that point.
Interesting, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't see that it's any great advantage over a standalone MP3 player - the majority of the price point of portable players seems to be the amount of memory included which is hard to work around, no matter which platform you're on.
Small standalone players like the Samsung YEPP are tiny, can run for hours on one AAA battery, and are slowly decreasing in price.
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:1)
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:1)
Re:Interesting, but... (Score:1)
Oh, and the Soul II can be bought [mp3playerstore.com] for $99 USD and will read MP3 and WMA (possibly upgradeable for more) off of any CD format you throw at it.
No, I only wish I was paid for this endorsement.
Shades of CD+G? (Score:1)
Aside from that, considering the installed base of Gameboy owners and their relative age category(ies), I wonder if this will revive the desire to merge computer graphics and digital audio and bring it to mass-distribution like was tried so many years ago with CD+G.
Perhaps it will also mean "albums" paired with games.
Sounds kinda neat. But the "screen for advertising" angle makes me wonder about exploitation. The latest Korn and Doritos Munching Game anyone?
Re:Shades of CD+G? (Score:2)
Yeah, but you got the game name wrong. It will be called Korn-nuts.
Well... (Score:2, Insightful)
Whence the content? (Score:4, Interesting)
Has anyone seen any of these reputed SongPro stations?
MP3 under GameBoy emulator (Score:5, Funny)
Run this under GameBoy Advance - then run the Gameboy Advance Emulator under Windows - then run Windows under VMWare - hmmm......
It's a hall of mirrors!!
-Rick
Windows Media Player (Score:2)
then run the Gameboy Advance Emulator under Windows [and run that under several extra layers of emulation]
A video game emulator has to emulate cartridge hardware such as mappers on NES, superfx/sa1/dsp on Super NES, etc. The SongPro cartridge contains an MP3 decoder. If a GBA emulator were to emulate SongPro, it would probably just embed Windows Media Player or something.
Re:MP3 under GameBoy emulator (Score:2)
What is the advantage? (Score:1)
Re:What is the advantage? (Score:1)
Re:What is the advantage? (Score:1)
which has no display, only standard control (play, stop pause, advance, etc).
I believe that both types were perfectly usable without connecting them to a Gameboy, they just gained functionality when connected. Especially the "Basic" version. They have built in headphone jacks/volume controls so they play completely independantly from the Gameboy.
Yuck. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
that's what that visor springboard module did...
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
Re:Yuck. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yuck. (Score:1)
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
The proof for this is based on Nyquist's Theorem [bldrdoc.gov], which states that if you sample an analog signal at a rate twice as high as the highest frequency in the signal. Since humans can't hear signals higher than about 20Khz, a sample rate of 44.1Khz (sound familiar?) will produce a digital signal that no human will be able to distingush from it's analog contemporary.
Now, using lossy compression like MP3 WILL cause you to lose singnal, but anyone who says they can tell the difference between analog and digital over the same equipment (amp, speakers, etc...) is full of crap.
As to listing to music over game-boy speakers, you could just as easily shove a screwdriver in your eye, but this begs the question...WHY?!?!?
Re:Yuck. (Score:1)
Whoops! forgot the last half of the theorm, which is:
you can then reproduce it without error.
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
Re:Yuck. (Score:4, Insightful)
The only sound quality problem I see here is with the original game boy and game boy color, assuming they implement their MP3 player for it. I see mention of the game boy color, but may have overlooked any mention of the MP3 device supporting it (I'm not sure if it mentions it). In any case, since the GBA can play everything back to the original game boy games, and since it's more attractive, lighter (than the older, larger ones) and is becoming fairly cheap, I can't see there being as much of a market for it. I see the GBA one taking a chunk, but not so much the GBC and original GB. My guess is if anyone's going to go out and buy an MP3 player, or even an MP3 add-on, they'll likely buy a full-fledged player, or they'll already have a GBA.
Re:Yuck. (Score:1)
since when? The DirectSound channels in the GBA [there are two] are 8-bits PCM each and run at either clock or a divisor of clock [e.g. anything that divides 2^24 Hz is fairly easy to approximate but anything >20khz is a bad idea].
Actually a while back I proposed a related mod to the GBA which was a cart-pass-through. The cart would be like an FX chip [except that it would work with all games and not be built into one cart]. Things like PCM sound take considerable time on a GBA so offloading it to another unit would be a great idea. [could also offload some GFX too]
Tom
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
people, it doesn't play through the speakers, it does all the processing on-board, and has its own audio out jack.
Re:Yuck. (Score:2)
Powerful miltimedia? (Score:1)
"SongPro(TM) has developed a multimedia player plug-in module that turns pocket entertainment systems into powerful multimedia and digital music players." -- HA!
How is a GB possiblly going to play an MP3, I doubt it could go fast enough considering the 10mhz processor in a TI-89 is faster then the proc in the GBA, not to mention that the maximum sound thuroughput it can do is the equivilent of playing System of a Down's Toxcisity on a 16 bit-rate mp3!
Re:Powerful miltimedia? (Score:1)
over a 1" speaker? HA! That's like saying you can play an Xbox game on an Atari without having to have an adapter for the CD!
I would think that you would use the headphone jack to listen.
Is 68K faster than ARM? (Score:1)
I doubt it could go fast enough considering the 10mhz processor in a TI-89 is faster then the proc in the GBA
Cycle for cycle, between ARM7TDMI and Motorola 68000, what's faster? The GBA has a 16 MHz ARM7TDMI processor (32-bit internal, 16-bit external, fast multiply, 32 KB of fast 32-bit memory). The TI-89 has a 10 MHz 68000 processor (32-bit internal, 16-bit external).
Processing power (Score:5, Informative)
Whoopdie dooo.
Here's a better option:
Amazon has the SP90 player at $85 - $5 coupon CHNKBKAMZNLT - $20 rebate [amazon.com] = $60 shipped. There's a simple way to hack [geocities.com] it and upgrade the firmware.
200mhz isn't enough? (Score:1)
The GBA has a 200mhz ARM cpu. That should be fast enough, right? I'm not very familiar with the flavors of the ARM archetecture -- is the 200mhz ARM processor a vastly different model from the 200mhz ARM processor that's in an ipaq? And ipaqs can handle mp3's no problem.
200Mhz? Try 16Mhz... (Score:1)
Re:Processing power (Score:1)
Re:Processing power (Score:1)
Just the other day... (Score:2)
Re:Just the other day... (Score:1)
Assuming you have one within 400 fickin' miles of your homwtown...*sniff* :(
Re:Just the other day... (Score:1)
GB Karaoke? (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, how does one go about loading the songs on the unit, and what will it's capacity be? Those are the key things I consider in a portable MP3 player. So far, I've found nothing rivaling the iPod (pause for Nomad and Rio users to chime in). At the $99 price point I'm guessing there's not much storage there.
Re:GB Karaoke? (Score:2)
You can buy a Rio that can put out much better sound than a GBA for a lot less than 100 bucks, and it will fit in your pocket or on your belt a lot better. (:
ipod.. (Score:1, Offtopic)
I did have an idea once of getting eBooks on gameboys. That would be neat for people who can't afford PDA's and convinent - cartridge based.
BTW, the article didn't say whether it was for the original gamboy (b/w screen for adverts and 'slideshows'??) or GBA.
Re:ipod.. (Score:2)
I did have an idea once of getting eBooks on gameboys. That would be neat for people who can't afford PDA's and convinent - cartridge based.
Been done. [mqp.com]
quick! (Score:1)
Re:quick! (Score:1)
Amen!
Cost?!?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cost?!?!? (Score:1)
But if you already own a GameBoy Advance it's the same price as a Rio, with the advantage that it would only require you to carry around one device to both play GBA games and MP3s/WMAs. Considering all the hardware is on the device including the sound output with it's own dedicated minijack, it could be a good purchase for many people.
Re:Cost?!?!? (Score:2)
Such a waste (Score:2)
The most expensive part of it's manufacture will be the memory cards that it uses, and the batteries it will chug through. It has a headphone jack, and I *assume* that it will be where the best music quality will be piped through, with it also downgraded out to the system speaker, if you really want to listen to it that way. But if you're going to use headphones anyways, get something that was MADE for playing MP3s, and don't waste the resources of the GBA like that...
Now what might be cooler is if you could plug a regular game boy cart into the Song Pro, and listen to your favorite music while playing Tactics Ogre or something....
Unnecessary add-ons... (Score:1)
The whole video game industry is becoming too sidetracked, in my opinion.
Hype (Score:2)
Better yet, buy a used Rio-PMP300. It uses the same flash memory cards, runs for days on one AA and is even smaller than the iPod.
The perpetual hahdheld platform (Score:1)
They are able to keep the price resonable, Less than $70 at Amazon [amazon.com]. (affilate link)
They are the last of the handheld game systems, and still going strong.
They pack quite a punch into a unit at that low price. The quality of the screen, etc. is great at such a low price point. Remember all the similar units that used to be around? Gamegear, Lynx (that was nice!), etc. The only one left is the GameBoy line. I remember when the first gameboy I got was $100. Compare capabilities of the origional gamebay compared to the one today. How many other handheld devices have progressed as much, with a price drop no-less. Discmen would have spectrum analyzers on them if they had kept up this pace of advancement.
The MP3 module is just another thing added to the "wow, that's interesting" things keeping he GameBoy line going. The digital camera is another one.
Nintendo has come up with the handheld game system lineage that won't die, not that that's a bad thing.
-Pete
They are not the last.... (Score:2)
Neo Geo Pocket
Sega Game gear
Tiger Game.com?... what?
Lynx?
Nintendo has ruthlessly demolished every other portable gaming platform. Not that this is a bad thing, the system is great and the games are fun. The reason that they have had such a monopoly is the backwards compatability.
Did you know that the last Zelda game(s) (Oracle and Seasons) had special features that you could only unlock if you play them on GBA? They are both GBColor games, but have special shops that you can only get to on GBA. They are all about encouraging you to upgrade.
Re:They are not the last.... (Score:1)
I still own a TGExpress and it's great. It's screen clarity, sharpness and brightness has yet to be matched, and the fact that it plays the same games as the system it's based on (like the later, also failed, Sega NOMAD) is really great IMO.
It had an addon TV Tuner, since MP3's weren't around then. That was a pretty great feature for it's time though.
Re:They are not the last.... (Score:1)
Thats funny, I thought the main reason was that you didn't have to feed it six batterries every two hours...
Not that the compatibility hurts in any way.
That's true too. (Score:2)
The main reason I think is that it has had the best games, year in and year out. Since the original GB, it has always had good games.
But the second reason that it's so popular is that it doesn't require any batteries compared to any other portable. The new GBA only needs 2 AA. The original GB needed 4 AA. With the newer models of GB only neededing 2 AAA.
Third reason is that they have kept the price of the platform down, the price of the GB is much lower then many other systems. This help because if you break it (dropping it , spilling something on it,etc...), it's cheap to get another. Which is a big thing, all the other platforms were much more expensive then the GB ever was.
Lastly, the backwards compatability helps people upgrade. If it weren't for that, I think that the adoption rate for the GBA (and GBC) would be much lower since many people still have an old copy of tetris or mario for the GB they want to play. And don't forget the MASSIVE popularity of the Pokemon games. They still haven't ported over all the Pokemon stuff yet to the GBA. (gotta catch them all, right?)
Minor nit: the price did not drop (Score:1)
The only one left is the GameBoy line.
And the Palm line. And the Pocket PC line.
I remember when the first gameboy I got was $100.
Actually, the original green-screen Game Boy was $90 in 1990, and it included headphones, batteries, and a genuine TETRIS® game.
How many other handheld devices have progressed as much, with a price drop no-less.
Minor nit: GBA came out in 2001, at $90. Batteries, headphones, and Tetris Worlds are $40 extra, for a total of $130 (2001 currency). Consider inflation, and the price of a Game Boy has remained approximately constant. (Your point remains valid.)
link request & loose thoughts (Score:2)
I would probably have more fun with a sequel to that, than this... but that's just me. That being said, this soundpro thing is an absolutely amazing work of engineering. I mean, LOOK at that thing.. it's tiny, it has a 512 MB upper ceiling, it's mac-compatible, and it's CHEAP. And this part really impresses me:
Besides playing songs in the standard MP3 and Windows Media Audio formats, the SongPro device will also play a proprietary SongPro Audio, or SPA, format that will use the Game Boy's screen to display lyrics and pictures.
That makes me happy.. it's always cool when people try to push a device like the Game Boy to the limit of its abilities, rather than just saying "well, we have an mp3 player in it, that's impressive enough on its own, lets stop here". -_-
I wonder how hard it would be to create a gameboy version of Vib Ribbon [google.com] and then stuff it inside the SongPro II along with the mp3 player? ^_^ Eh, that's probably pushing it.
That being said, I dunno. If you just want a handheld thingy that plays mp3s and games, i still say-- i've said this on slashdot before-- it might be worth a shot to try to hack the iPod to have a first-gen gameboy emulator on it
Busterman will rise again [discogs.com]
Re:link request & loose thoughts (Score:3, Informative)
I think you're referring to Nanoloop, which can be found here [nanoloop.de].
sorry, it's not a cool hack. (Score:2)
Tim
how effective is advertisting on a handheld device (Score:2)
Richmond said the screen will also be used for advertising, meaning that some content could actually be offered with a free, ad-supported model.
Of course, we'll need a metal retainer to keep the screen situated eight inches away from your eyes while the advertisement is playing, but that's being worked on, and as soon as it's finished, the record companies are ready to sign on!
Remember, you're not just bound by a contract to watch all advertising... now you'll also be bound by a handy metal strap!
Re:how effective is advertisting on a handheld dev (Score:2)
My flat mate has nearly made one (Score:2)
He is now working on a MP3 player along with other demos.
When he makes it ill slap him about and release te code.
Re:My flat mate has nearly made one (Score:1)
Wicked, its a shame that most of the really good MODs are over a hundred times bigger than the playwr itsself.
It'd be really cool if he made a version of EdPlayer [darkheavy.net] for the GBA though.
I wonder if you can load other stuff.... (Score:1)
In other words, could you load homebrewed code off of this. This would be consideriably cheaper then the propriatary stuff availible at www.lik-sang.com, etc.
Back when the Bung flash rom kit for GBC came out and was subsiquently banned from sale in the US, a friend and I were discussing what it would take to build a CFM drive adapter for the GBC. This might just be it in disguse.
Re:I wonder if you can load other stuff.... (Score:2)
Heh. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Heh. (Score:1)
As a hack it would be impressivish, now its just a way to suck money from consumers.
True.... (Score:1)
Re:True.... (Score:1)
Yeah, sucks they didn't include a headphone jack or anything.
Yea but how will it sound? (Score:1)
Slide shows? (Score:1)
I don't know how many times I've been listening to some tunes and suddenly had an urgent desire to make a presentation. Who's going to want to do a slide show on a GameBoy anyway? Unless.... the next remake of 'The Little Rascals' has Darla looking up from her game to say, "I know! Let's put on a slide show!"
interesting. (Score:1)
Search Result 1
From: sounni@taggin.com (sounni@taggin.com)
Subject: SONGPRO.COM INC. OFFERS AN ANTIDOTE TO THE VIOLENT GAMES TARGETED AT CHILDREN
Newsgroups: alt.music.mp3
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 2000/09/21
SONGPRO.COM INC. OFFERS AN ANTIDOTE TO THE VIOLENT GAMES TARGETED AT
CHILDREN
Company Responds to FTC Study By Turning The GAMEBOY Into Portable
Digital Music Player To Soothe The Savage Gamer
Palo Alto, CA -- September 14, 2000 -- Songpro.com Inc. has an immediate
solution for the troubling findings of the Federal Trade Commission
regarding the marketing of violent video games to children under 17.
Plugging in the Songpro Jr. digital music player into a Gameboy portable
gaming unit instantly creates a tool to expose the gaming community of
all ages to the joys of music. In addition to the use of stereo sound,
the Songpro Jr. will also utilize the screen to add lyrics, cartoons, or
any picture to the experience. Suddenly the user has an engaging
alternative to the aggression and violence present in so many of the
video games today.
"We believe that this is a promising solution for parents wishing to
avoid today's exposure to violence through an entertainment tool that's
loved by kids," explained Mark Bush, SongBoy.com's CMO. "One of the most
important ways to address the FTC finding is to provide the entertainment
industry and parents alike with an alternative to the overwhelming
violent material being marketed to children." The FTC study found 70
percent of all "Mature" rated games were being marketed to children under
17.
There is no other portable digital music player on the market that
utilizes the visual portion of the multimedia experience. One quickly
realizes the full potential of graphics when thinking about the
possibilities of educational software for the mobile community. Over 100
million Gameboys are currently sitting in school lockers, desk drawers
and of course in the hands of people around the globe. The simple
addition of a SongPro Jr. cartridge into these devices will open a world
of discovery for the user.
"Creating content which is more entertaining than violent games will pave
the way for future generations of digital entertainment which fosters the
expansion of the mind rather than digressing into the black hole of
violence," noted SongBoy.com CEO, Ron Jones.
About SongBoy.com Inc.
SongBoy.Com(TM) is a Silicon Valley digital media Start-up Company,
providing hardware, software and content to consumers and businesses.
SongBoy.Com(TM) has already created successful partnerships and alliances
with Microsoft, Texas Instruments, Emusic.com and rap artist Chuck D's
Rapstation.com.
The company has garnered the attention of "new media" press
internationally, and was recently profiled on CNNfn. SongJones.Com(TM) is
the SongPro's(TM) sister component that is compatible with the New Geo
Pocket Player(TM). For more information, access the Web site at
www.SongPro.com.
For Immediate Release
Press contact:
Russell Kibbee
Tag It
Tel: (310) 273-1157
Fax: (209) 315-6514
Email: russell@taggin.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Obviously.. (Score:2)
Oh boy. (Score:1)
--j
OLD product (Score:2)
Now this is REAL innovation (Score:1)
That is cool
20 some photos at 640x480 and only for $25 bux. So 25 + 70 = 95 bux and you get a Game system and a 1.3MP camera...can't beat that!
640 * 480? (Score:1)
I always thought 640*480 = 307200 pixels
a 1.3mega pixel camera is normaly
1280 * 1024 = 1310720pixels
realy this camera only has the resolution of one of those cheep toy digital cameras that you can pickup for less than $100 australian so probably $50 US
in other news... (Score:2)
8 bit sound (Score:2, Interesting)
I've said this before, but.. (Score:2)
Re:Why?? (Score:2)
It even claims that you might want to connect it to your "home entertainment system."
Bold.
Re:Why?? (Score:1)
Well, I remember they had a program on a TI-85 graphing calculator that would play .WAV files through the link port if you hooked up headphones to it... Now THAT was a waste of time -- there was only 32k of ram in that thing.
GBA audio at up to 64 kHz and DMA pass-through (Score:1)
The Gameboy Advance has two 8-bit PCM channels.
The MP3 audio goes through a separate 6mm jack.
But even if the system did provide through cart-DMA, the GBA's audio runs at up to 64 KHz, which means that the decoder chip could be doing some noise-shaping to keep the quantization noise between 16 kHz and 32 kHz. (MP3 at 128 kbps doesn't preserve anything above 16 kHz.)
It's actually possible to make a GBA game that doesn't run on the GBA at all. There's enough bandwidth between the cartridge and the video chip to copy 16 MB of pixels per second from the cart, or 280,896 bytes per frame. A 16-bit display at 240x160 pixels is only 76800 bytes, and given the characteristics of the GBA's LCD, you can probably get away with interlacing. Do the same for audio, and the CPU no longer needs to really do much of anything except for feeding joypad state to the cartridge and (possibly) performing a bit of game logic.
Re:GBA audio at up to 64 kHz and DMA pass-through (Score:1)
Basically, you are correct, as the thing processes everything, and displays it on the LCD.
Lik-Sang sells em.
http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.ph
Re:Why?? (Score:2)
RTFA, and moderators, *5*!, mod parent down.
Did you have a gameboy on the plane? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)