Home-Built vs. Store-Bought PCs 1132
Greg Searle asks: "I'm going to be in the market for another PC soon, and have been watching the prices drop and the power go up over the years. There are a lot of 'bargains' out there, but then I heard that the best and least expensive PC's are 'white box' systems that are custom build by small, local companies. This got me thinking, I know how to put together a PC from scratch, why don't I just do it? This should save me quite a few bucks, and I get the exact system I want. My question to you: Where is the best place to order the parts (case, MB, drives, etc.) over the web? I am familiar with sites that sell typical consumer products, but have no idea where to start to get raw parts. I'd prefer one site that sells everything, but wouldn't be surprised if there are some specialty sites that provide the most bang for the buck for a particular piece. What do you think?"
Building it is cheaper (Score:1, Insightful)
$450 from dell (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't worth your time anymore... you can buy a stripped down PC from dell for $450.
check out techbargains.com for the latest dell deals...
start your dell rants.
Local dealers are still a good option... (Score:5, Insightful)
I shop locally (Score:5, Insightful)
They tend to be a bit cheaper, you don't have to worry about shipping... then again, there's the tax. For those of you living in large cities, they are often your best bet for the most common parts rather than trying to hunt through 100 different online vendors, dealing with damaged parcels, etc. Plus, with so many of them along the same road, it's easy to visit another shop if the one doesn't have what you want. And most are online so you can compare prices...
BEST suggestions for building your own computer!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Make sure you only buy *retail* packages and keep all receipts in a folder in case you need to RMA a bad part.
It may cost 10-20% more, but if you do these two simple things, your overall value goes way up for building your own system.
Least expensive? Not always ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Building your own PC is not always the least expensive proposition. Most configurable, yes, but not least expensive. For starters, all of the prebuilt PC manufacturers get huge bulk discounts. If you want to go buy that P4, it may cost you well over $400 or even $500. These guys can buy in bulks of 10,000 or more, which means significant price drops. Same for the motherboards, cases, power supplies, RAM, ... You're not going to be able to match the prices these companies can get. On top of that, if you're building your own PC, you're probably going to want to put quality parts in it. Don't expect that from a prebuilt company. They skimp where they can (weaker powersupply, flimsy case, off-brand sound card, etc) so they can pass the savings on to you while still making some sort of profit. Nevermind the software you have to buy (assuming you want to run Windows or some other commercial OS and don't wish to steal it). You can sometimes get the OEM discounts on the software if you buy it in conjunction with a mobo or hard drive, but not always.
In short, if price is a concern, don't build it yourself. Oh, sure, with a little due dilligence you can keep the price down. It's just been my experience that that doesn't happen. If you're pinching pennies, buy from a respectable name brand. If you want the ultimate in configuration (and don't mind having no computer-wide warranty support), then build it yourself.
White Box VS Name Brand (Score:1, Insightful)
Dude... (Score:1, Insightful)
Seriously, does the stripped down PC also avoid the Microsoft tax? I would think not but I could be wrong. Besides, who wants to buy hardware from someone with such an annoying mascot? I would think that kid represents AOL better than Dell.
Homemade is better but not necessarily cheaper (Score:2, Insightful)
The reason being that when you start shopping for individual components, you start buying stuff that is alot more powerful than the stuff in full system configuration. Start spending a few extra bucks here and there and it quickly adds up.
In the end you have a high end system that is no where close to the specs of the premade system, and it is evident in the cost as well.
Don't use the web... (Score:2, Insightful)
I've found the prices of the local "mom and pop" computer stores generally kick the shit out of the big chain stores and online stores, and there's no shipping to worry about. Plus you can actually go talk to somebody to get advice or if something goes wrong.
If you do this, buying the parts and building the system yourself is still probably your best bet, but sometimes shops have good deals on prebuilt systems that might (depending on what you need it for) be good enough.
Low price == low quality (Score:3, Insightful)
They showed me how they bought pre-tested parts from wholesalers, according to certain standards. They said they prefered to let others do the testing because, sometimes, reject rates were up to 40%. It wasn't that the parts didn't work, but they weren't up to the best standards, they were less reliable overall. The parts wholesaler could work perfectly well with those reject rates, I was told, because the parts that didn't pass the Swedish company standards were sold cheap to Chinese manufacturers.
The bottom line is, unfortunately, that cheap parts are always, by force of the economics involved, less reliable than similar parts bought at higher prices from the better manufacturers.
Re:newegg.com (Score:5, Insightful)
I have built about 8 machines recently, all by buying parts from newegg, and I don't believe there's any cheaper way to get a brand-new machine with quality parts.
The only thing to consider is where to get the monitor from, since it is so heavy, so shipping costs are high. A large local retailer might be better for that. Or use egghead.com, which has (at least used to have) a limit of $9 on shipping for all items.
pros and cons (Score:4, Insightful)
- You get exactly what you want, e.g. stuff that you can be sure works and plays well with Linux. You can be sure you're not cutting corners with case or cooling.
- You can be sure that you're not paying the Microsoft Tax.
- There is a certain amount of satisfaction from doing it yourself, even if all you're doing is hooking together a few major subsystems.
Con:Re:I guess I'll go out on a limb... (Score:2, Insightful)
Building my own lets me know exactly what I'm getting. The lite-on cd-r will be able to make backups of protected games. The case is easy to get into and has a good power supply. The motherboard supports USB 2.
Prebuilts may be cheaper for low-end systems, but building your own is better if you want to make sure you get quality parts at reasonable prices.
Re:$450 from dell (Score:2, Insightful)
You also will get the absolute cheapest components they can stuff in that case. A power supply that just *barely* covers the power requirements of the configuration it was shipped in. Put much more than a second hard drive in and suddenly you are in trouble. Go out and buy a new power supply and suddenly you have a fried motherboard because they use a non-standard atx-lookalike pinout.
When you build it yourself, you know what you are getting. And if that means you pay a few bucks more, so be it. That's the price you pay for higher quality parts.
Re:Tiger Direct (Score:3, Insightful)
There are also advantages to having a relationship with a flesh and blood guy if you need help. Who knows you might get laid off and need a job real quick.
Re:$450 from dell (Score:4, Insightful)
- ASUS A7N 266 Motherboard* $90
- Athlon XP 1800* $90
- 256 megs DDR-SDRAM PC2100* $60
- Pioneer DVD Drive $45
- Sony 32X Write CD burner $80
- Creative Labs 56k Modem* $30
- In-win A500 Midtower case* $60
- IBM 40 GB Hard Drive* $70
TOTAL: 525 ShippedSimilar dell system with lower quality components runs just under $1000 [dell.com] without shipping.
My process for building a computer... (Score:3, Insightful)
- First get an idea of how much you can afford to spend.
- Think a bit about what sort of tasks you want the computer to do. Do you want high end video for gaming? Do you want to build a PVR? Do you want to build a small server to host web/ftp/email services over a broadband connection?
- Go online and do some research to see what's out there to fulfill the role you envision for the machine. arstechnica [arstechnica.com], tom's hardware [tomshardware.com], anandtech [anandtech.com], storage review [storagereview.com], and other sites usually have good information on recent and upcoming technologies. I do a lot of looking to see what's out there and what's around the corner, then go back and revise my budget accordingly.
- Decide what you need to buy. I don't generally go for the biggest, fastest, best, because it's generally twice as expensive (or more) as it will be in just a few months. I don't buy the cheapest stuff either, as it's usually of inferior quality, obsolete, or will give inferior performance compared to spending a small amount more on something better. I look at the price/performance curve, and generally buy in the "knee-bend" of the curve. The only exception is if there's something dirt cheap available for a non-critical component that doesn't make much of a difference (like a floppy drive, NIC, or keyboard) or an absolutely critical high-priority component that the system *needs* in order to perform its role adequately (like a GeForce card for a gaming station) or a SCSI controller for a file server.
- Shop around. You can try pricewatch.com [pricewatch.com] to get an idea what stuff is going for these days. But I find that shipping makes finding a real bargain somewhat difficult. That's especially true if you buy from more than one vendor. I try to go through one vendor, for simplicity's sake, and right now my choice is Newegg.com [newegg.com]. They have very good service and their prices are often near the top of the pricewatch search results anyway. You can try local stores, too. Stay away from chains like CompUSA and Best Buy, and support small local businesses run by knowledgable, competant people. Their prices will generally be about twice the lowest you'll find on pricewatch, but you may find the convenience of not paying for shipping, not having to wait for delivery, and having someone to go to for questions and advice useful. If you're more experienced, you probably don't need that, but few people know everything about everything, and everyone you talk to can potentially teach you something.
- Put it together. There's plenty of guides out there on the web that will go into detailed instructions on how to put a PC together if you need help. PC Mechanic [pcmechanic.com] is a good example, and there are many others out there. Read the instructions a few times until you know what you're doing, then do it.
Good luck.Re:$450 from dell (Score:3, Insightful)
Companies like Dell use simpler BIOSes. The ensure all the settings in the BIOS that you can't access are at their poorest performance possible.
Had you done the same with your homebuilt PC it almost certainly would have worked fine.
As far as noise goes, simply select the right components. If you want to keep noise down, you'll need to avoid a cheap power supply. Spend an extra $10 and get one with a variable speed fan. Same thing with the CPU, you must have a variable speed fan on it to keep noise down in a homebuilt system (that is, assuming you want to keep it standard -- more on that later).
By going with a big name computer, you lose any hope in hell of upgrading (in any major way) successfully. Riveted together cases (as in rivets where screws would usually go), one fan systems (ie: power supply fan does everything), proprietary cases, 120 watt power supplies, built on everything, BIOSes with only one screen, BIOSes that only exist on the hard drive (isn't it fun when you screw up your system if you have one of these machines), special drive rails, non-standard physical drive sizes, inability to disable onboard stuff, specialty video cards, expensive riser cards, special power supply connectors, oh God this list could go on forever.
The most fun part about a non-homebuilt machine is when you've got to get something proprietary replaced: IBM once quoted me $250 for a 200 watt desktop ATX sized but with special cable power end supply. In the end I got paid to cut the end off the old power supply, figure out how it was wired (not too hard) and wire their proprietary end on to a new "generic" 300 watt $50 ATX power supply. It was cheaper for me to spend an hour dicking about with the old supply than to replace it with an IBM part.
Not to even mention the fact that I got it fixed that night. Are you prepared to wait a week while their proprietary parts arrive at your house?
I thought not.
Re:$450 from dell (Score:4, Insightful)
$10, $10, $30, $5, $5, $2, $100, $70, $NOTHING, $HAHA.
Why such low prices? The physical components on cheap brand name computers are total crap.
Now, why such low tech support? Well, if you ask me, telling me to re-install and/or run scandisk/defrag is worth $NOTHING. If you want anything past that you'll have to buy one freakin' expensive support contract. But that's just my experience.
Warranty? Oh, now you really must be shitting me!
Most separate components that are quality (as opposed to the crap put in a cheap brand name system) come with warranties of up to 3 years. Examples: Both my Asus motherboard and Maxtor hard drive are covered by 3 year warranties.
Parts that aren't covered by warranties are of such low cost (for example, the $2 mouse) that the cost in your time to return them isn't worth it.
>And, of course, if you get the Dell you don't have to dick around for five hours selecting and ordering the parts, finding drivers, putting everything together, and installing the OS.
As someone once employed to build computers, here's how long it takes someone with any experience to put one together:
- Open the case, whip out the bag of screws and standoffs. Put the standoffs in place, ensure the ATX coverplate is the right one. 3 minutes.
- Put CPU on motherboard, put the fan on, make sure the jumpers / dips are correct, and add memory. 5 minutes.
- Put the motherboard on the standoffs, screw it in. Connect the PSU cable to the motherboard. 2 minutes.
- Put the hard drive, floppy drive, CDROM in position and screw them down. 5 minutes.
- Add expansion cards, set any jumpers on them (virtually none nowadays). 5 minutes.
- Plug cables from CDROM, etc into the motherboard. 1 minute.
- Play with the BIOS and get it set nicely. 2-4 minutes.
- Install operating system (doesn't matter if its WinXP / Linux / Whatever): 10 minutes to get it going. You aren't going to sit there and watch it copy stuff to the hard drive, are you? Boring!
- Throw on drivers, etc. 5-10 minutes.
Total time to build a system, if done in the above order: A little over 30 minutes. Well under an hour.
And those times are accurate -- ask any (truthful) computer repair shop. The administration actually takes most of the time, and its the reason why most repair shops have a 30 minute - 1 hour minimum charge policy.
Unless you're being paid $500/hr. 24/7 I remain unconvinced that anyone with just a bit of experience can't economically justify the amount of time it takes to build a computer, espcially with today's standardized, keyed, idiot proof hardware!
Just my 2 cents.
Are you saving? Think of the time. (Score:2, Insightful)
I think you need to ask yourself a few questions before you determine that building a computer yourself is actually saving you money.
----- How much is your time worth to you?
Do you have the time to sit down and troubleshoot issues? Do you have the time to pull apart your computer and fix it if need be? Could you be spending the time involved in maintaing your computer with your family? On work? @ Play?
--- Can you live with downtime?
What if you don't have the $ when a component goes dead to replace it? I was in a position a few years ago at university where my harddrive died with all my notes on a week before finals - Micron came through and I had a new harddrive inside of a few business days - but I as a student would not have had the money to replace it had i built it myself.
----- Are you prepared to have to deal with EACH individual hardware manufacturer of each individual peripheral in your computer?
Some sites you buy from a better than others and will act as intermediaries in the warranty process - but if not - YOU are personally responsible with dealing each manufacturer of each component. My friend recently lost a CPU (no not overclocking - Heatsink fastners on the ZIF socket BROKE and HSF assembly fell off the cpu) AMD did cover the replacement of his CPU but MSI would not replace his motherboard. He was without his Processor for a few weeks till AMD shipped him his replacement.
If you get an onsite warranty from whatever manufacturer you purchase your computer from you are saving yourself tons of time and headaches.
Purchasing from a local computer store vs a brand name? - If its a local computer store that has been around for a very long time and you do not plan on moving fine. But remember that most independant stores would require you to ship it to them if you moved somewhere else - for warranty coverage.
Personally I build my own computers. I've done tech support, sales, and its my hobby. I'm a university student and I do not mind spending my time maintaining my machine. Once I get a real job and get out of school Alienware here I come so that someone else can worry about my comp. Because at that point - It will no longer be worth my time.
It's more expensive (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, once you have a good base, it's not that expensive if you upgrade it all the time.
I use pricewatch.com when i'm ready to buy.. i've used a few of the companies that come up tops in price for cpu's and tyan, asus, abit motherboards.
ever since I've started (Score:2, Insightful)
Onlines stores are not bad, as long as they are a big name. Newegg is pretty good, but honestly, if you don't know what you are doing, and end up getting a defective part, or just but parts that are plain incompatible, then the return process just destroyed the whole point of the online cheapness.
I started buying locally, and I still do, the prices are only slightly higher then online (you have to hunt for the right store, just like online), and I can return a part no hassle, just with a drive or walk to the store. No days worth of shipping, no misorders, shipping fees, etc.
The only good point of buying online is saving tax money here. But if I have to cross the border from the US to Canada, it is the biggest rip off yet, since they charge you all the tax at the border, plus their outrageous service fee.
I still do occasionally buy special parts online, that most stores, and most online stores won't carry.
Don't go to a retail store, the prices are disgusting, even if they offer their lowest price guarantee, $60 higher per part is not uncommon, they just know how ignorant 99% of people are, and if it says its the lowest price, it must be, right?
Overall... buy local, a small store, tucked in a corner somewhere, they will have many resellers working out of there, oem customers, and they will order almost anything you want if they don't have it. Their prices are better then most webstores, but not as good as newegg, but then again, you can see what you are buying, not some generic jpg that really isn't what they are selling, because I see that a lot.
read, read, read and then read some more ! (Score:1, Insightful)
there is a plethora of hardware to choose from. you'll be lost in a sea of confusion and have a big headache if you buy the wrong stuff.
www.tomshardware.com
www.sharkeyextreme.com
w
and there are many more. just open up google and look.
and don't forget www.pricewatch.com when you go to buy your hardware. they have listings of the cheapest prices on the net.
i'm going to build a new machine soon and i'm looking at an aluminum case. a 350 watt power supply.
an abit motherboard, i've had an abit for the past 3 years. a bh6 and it's seen 3 different processors. a celeron 300mhz, a p3 667mhz and a p3 1gighz with a slocket adaptor. abit in my opinion is one hell of a mobo.
a new gforce 4 video card.
i'll keep my soundblaster audigy card.
and other goodies like my cd burner etc. etc.
well anyways. remember to read up on all of the hardware you're looking to buy. good luck.