How Effective are Ergonomic Keyboards? 478
Jodrell writes: "This article on the BBC's website has a brief review of the current state of keyboard technology, but also questions the validity of claims that ergonomic keyboards can help prevent RSI, CTS and other "upper limb disorders." The article suggests that maybe it's working habits that cause these problems, and not the design of computer interfaces. What are Slashdot readers' experiences?"
I suffered from RSI... (Score:5, Informative)
For all you cubicle dwellers like me out there, another tip is to move your computer to the corner of the l-shaped desk, if you have that opportunity. By using the corner, you can rest both your elbos on the desk.
A few are good, most aren't.... (Score:5, Informative)
The whole deal with ergonomic keyboards is that to be effective they need to eliminate wrist possitions which cause your tendons to drag along the edges of your wrist, which causes inflamation. The key to this seems to be maintaining a natural "relaxed" wrist position which allows the tendons to do their work right in the middle of the wrist.
Of course people vary quite a bit, so it seems that what works for some doesn't work for everyone. I've found that I'm particularly sensitive to this kind of injury (don't ask me why, I just am...) so the Kinesis is the only thing that works for me. I've met plenty of folks who don't need something this extreme because the more "normal" ergo keyboards change their possition enough that they stop having problems - generally the Kinesis will also work for them, but is over kill. Those more "normal" ergo keyboards don't do crap for me.
I've also met plenty of people who just don't seem to have a problem with this stuff. I don't know what it is, but some people seem susceptible and others can spend fifty years typing on a standard keyboard and never have a problem. Go figure.
I'm tempted to say that the "normal" ergo keyboards are a scam, because they don't work for me, but they seem to help enough borderline folks that I just keep my mouth shut instead. If you're having real wrist issues though don't write off all ergo keyboards until you check out the Kinesis ones. They provide a much more robust solution to bad positioning than any of the others, many of which focus on how "turned in" your hands are while ignoring the degree of flex in your wrists.
And of course, the position of the rest of your body matters too.
I'm unwilling to say that ergo keyboards are a waste or a scam for the simple reason that without them I couldn't code anymore. I did that for a while before I found the Kinesis, and it was bad. My life as a waiter is not a pretty thing
My 1st hand experience - doctors, not keyboards (Score:5, Informative)
I knew exactly what was happening to me, but at the time I was trying to start a business and didn't have health insurance. Becoming panicked, I goaded my partners into starting the search for insurnace we could afford - amid the spiraling costs and free-fall benefits currently available, this took 5 months. Toward the end, I was unable to work.
I read every single piece of literature on the internet about RSI, and then I moved on to the library and the medical books. This condition has happened in my family, and I immediately knew how much trouble I was in. Everything said the same thing: "see a specialist now - don't wait!" But I couldn't! And I inevitably ended up looking at the major "RSI keyboards" - i.e. Twiddler and Datahand. I "evaluated" the Datahand [datahand.com] (this is a $1,000+ investment, but still less than the consultation fee of a good specialist) for several months.
The principle seemed sound to me - the literature they had appeared convincing and the salesman I spoke to claimed to be an RSI sufferer himself who had been helped "dramatically" by the keyboard. It got a lot of comments sitting on my desk - the thing looks quite sci-fi. However, the learning curve was steep (at least for me) - it took weeks of constant effort in order to get to a third of my current 90wpm. Convinced I might be saving my wrists, I let this massive and unbearable disruption to my work continue unabated, but I found that I still felt pain, and at the end of the day, I still felt numb. In hopeful moments, I thought perhaps it would pass as I gained proficiency with the keyboard.
Eventually I more or less stopped working altogether, using interns and co-workers to type for me. My partners started to get nervous - far from sticking with their friend, I knew they were starting to wonder how they could get rid of this medical disaster in their midst. I started to contemplate what the rest of my life would be like without the ability to type or perform other similarly intricate motions with my hands.
Finally, the insurance came through, and I canvased New York, looking for the best specialst I could find. In an oak-paneled office a few blocks from Lincoln Center, I mingled with young musical prodigies and their handlers, and I was given two cortisone injections, an exercise regimen, and a piece of advice:
"Those keyboards aren't worth the plastic they're molded out of."
I went back on the regular keyboard, and within weeks, I was 100% back to normal.
So, in summary:
The Facts About Repetitive Strain Injuries (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Exactly (Score:3, Informative)
I can't speak for guitarists, but as someone who's also played keyboard instruments for over 20 years I can say that a good piano technique avoids CTS and RSI.
The closest I've really heard of was Robert Schumann [rz-berlin.mpg.de] who it was said rigged up a pulley and weights system to strengthen his 4th finger so he could trill faster, and knackered his tendons in the process. (the more likely reason was taking arsenic to cure syphillis)
Re:I suffered from RSI... (Score:5, Informative)
Get yourself a big flat, L-shaped desk (position yourself in the corner as NanoGator says), push your keyboard out to arms length, recline your chair, lean back , and pull yourself up to your stomach. Make sure your elbows stay on the table, your wrists are straight and you'll have no problems.
Since most of my job involves command line stuff, I mostly interact with the computer via keyboard. I touch type and have never had a problem with repetative stress injuries.
I have both a MS Natural Keyboard and a regular IBM clicky type and I like them both. I think I can type a little bit faster on the natural keyboard, though.
Re:A few are good, most aren't.... (Score:5, Informative)
Hunt and Peck (Score:4, Informative)
"Touch typists" who don't look at the keyboard, but look straight ahead at their monitors can, through proper placement of their monitors, maintain good posture throughout the work day.
I am not an ergonomics expert, but there's nothing inherently wrong with touch-typing either. More that the way keyboard are normally positioned force your wrist into a prone position.
BTW. there are exercises [orthohelp.com] you can do to help prevent carpal-tunnel from keyboarding.
IBM keyboards and martial arts (Score:3, Informative)
When my right wrist starting hurting this January, I decided to change several things. First, I gave up my cheap Packard Bell keyboard in favor of one of the old, loud IBM models. This thing feels so much better. I don't know about any new, oddly-shaped keyboards, but this feels great to me. Additionally, I got a keyboard drawer to position it at a better height, which helped.
I also talked to one of my martial arts instructors (who is also a chiropractor) about exercises to help. He showed me several that have also made a big difference. In case you're wondering, it's an Indonesian art called Pentjak Silat, and the exercises involve sticks (I also take Jujitsu, which does have some wrist stretching, though Aikido would do more).
Aside from martial arts, I also play several musical instruments, and I think that the variety of motion is probably also beneficial.
PS: Yes, I do use qwerty touch typing, and have since I was around 10 (I'm almost 25 now). I think my problems may have been brought on by a period of time in which I didn't play much music, was doing less martial arts, and was writing many pages of Japanese characters. The fact that my left wrist is fine deepens this suspicion.
They do help a lot. (Score:2, Informative)
These things DO work - along with taking frequent mini-breaks (30 secs per 10 minutes), and stretching your arm muscles.
Also, make sure you take your eyes away from the screen and focus on something far away - outside, for example. That always helps.
RSI is a problem, and prevention IS the solution.
Most of the above (Score:2, Informative)
I used to have dull aches and pains on my right, upper forearm. Learning to mouse left-handed fixed that problem (~2 weeks to become proficient). Now I right-mouse at work and left-mouse at home to achieve a nice balance and I don't have that pain anymore.
Fast forward two years
I was waking up about three times a night with numb hands. I saw my doctor and he said it was a symptom of carpal tunnel syndrome. I researched on the Net and decided to go with the Kinesis Contour keyboard ( http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ ). I also modified my seating area to improve kb height, monitor view, etc. The Countour is very good for typing letters, but using Emacs and vi is still sometimes challenging (I'd gotten use to Ctrl-[ for Esc). It is easier on my hands and I feel less pain and I got down to waking up only a few times a week with hand numbness.
I went back to the doctor and he sent me to a sleep lab, where I found out I have Sleep Apnea. Now I use CPAP to sleep at night.
By combining common sense and professional advice/eq with practical application, I have successfully eliminated pain, improved my sleep at night, and I'm now more productive during the day.
NB: My docoter also said CTS cannot be eliminated by these devices, but if the pain is subsided, then that is enough for me right now.
Re:Exactly (Score:4, Informative)
In fact, when I needed help in the mid-nineties, the best doctors to treat RSI in Boston worked exclusively with musicians. (The one time in my tech career that playing an instrument turned out to be a critical advantage.
It's very easy to blow off RSI as something that happens to [insert favorite character flaw here] people until, of course, your hands go out on *you*. Finding a keyboard that adjusted to my needs helped me, but only as a part of larger reworking of my technique and positioning - YMMV.
BTW - I use a Goldtouch keyboard, you can see it and a bunch of other weird keyboards at:
http://www.tifaq.com/
Ergonomics: Nothing New Under the Sun (Score:5, Informative)
I haven't followed this field closely, but from what I've seen, the science hasn't seemed to advance since then, mostly because companies are spending big dollars to prevent studies from going forward, and the Republicans want to keep the government off our backs by preventing any regulation or much research into ergonomics. (In my paper, I noted that legal tort-liability rules were shifting so that manufacturers -- who would almost certainly have been held liable if their appeals reached the courts in the early or mid 80's -- would probably win their appeals in the 90's, which is mostly what happened.)
My own opinion is that the number one ergonomic problem today is the desk. Despite study after study showing that worker injuries are reduced if desks are adjustable, nobody (including me) wants to spend a thousand bucks more for an "ergonomic" desk that allows for adjustment of the surface and especially the keyboard level. (Instead, we spend much more on lost work time and on chiropractors, etc.)
Adjusting the chair (though important) is not enough since lowering the chair means awkwardly repositioning the legs, and the torso follows into a poor position.
Of course, one problem is that nobody offers an ergonomic desk at a reasonable price. Are there patents or something preventing someone from selling a $500 adjustable-height desk? Instead, whenever I've shopped, prices start somewhere north of $1,000, for the flimsiest adjustable desks, and $2,000 for anything decent.Another ergonomic problem that I've quickly solved was the mouse. After many months of shoulder and elbow pain, I switched from a mouse to a trackball (I think it was in 1992 or 1993), and the pain simply vanished. Sometimes I do get wrist and finger pain, but that fades if I remember to switch regularly between two slightly different style trackballs. (But please don't use a lousy trackball, stick to the Logitech red-ball trackballs.)
Finally, things like posture and work breaks are absolutely essential. Any employer who allows employees to sit hunched over a keyboard for hours without a break, probably deserves to pay immense sums for insurance (workers' comp and health). It is not an employee's right (even a self-righteous coder) to sit hunched over the keyboard for hours. Breaks MUST be taken, in which the employee at least stands up and raises her arms!
Finally, let me recall my favorite case in researching ergonomic liability lawsuits. One of the phone companies (I think it was US West) had instructed its consultants/contractors to design a 411/directory/information-service terminal that did NOT display characters as they were typed, because their research showed that employees slowed down their typing speed if they waited to see if the correct character was displayed. Of course, once the employees couldn't see what they were typing, their natural tendency was to pound the keys harder to be sure the character was being recorded (since there was no feedback about what level of keystroke pressure was enough). The result was a 100% injury rate (RSI/carpal tunnel).
The biggest associated "risk factor" (Score:2, Informative)
I play the piano for at least 2 hours every day, and I'm in front of a computer keyboard for another 4 to 6 hours.
Interestingly, the most uncomfortable action for me is mousing! If I have to do something like Image Editing for hours at a time, I have to take breaks or risk getting a sore hand and wrist.
I think the way you sit, how relaxed you are, and how fat you are are more important to working a keyboard without injury than the particular layout of the computer keyboard.
Pianists learn quickly that the way to get "velocity" and fluidity at the piano is not to waste any energy! Don't keep "pressing" at the key once it's down, just let gravity hold you hand on it, and don't move your hands and fingers any more than absolutely necessary.
The same holds true on a computer keyboard. Learn how to type properly. "Eyes on copy" with your hand in the proper position; Don't press at the keys any harder than needed.
Re:A few are good, most aren't.... (Score:3, Informative)
But you said all the stuff about how it helps RSI -- I'd add that it is also just a really good keyboard. It looks funny, and it'll bug anyone who casually tries to use your computer, but once you get used to the keyboard you'll like it for more than just ergonomics.
They keyboard only has the keys you really need, without the arrow pad and keypad hanging off the side -- this makes it usable on your lap, and much more compact than Natural keyboards (even a bit more compact than normal keyboards). It's a similar set of keys to the Happy Hacker keyboard. The two sides are separated a fare distance, which does make it a larger than the HH keyboard. I haven't heard good things about the touch pads you can put in the middle -- a nice idea, but perhaps poor implementation (or maybe touch pads just naturally suck).
I find I type with considerably more accuracy and speed using the keyboard. On both sides of the keyboard, the keys are in a little crater of sorts, so your hands sit naturally in the correct position -- you don't have to find the correct position, it's just natural. They home row keys also feel different, but not because of little nobs on them (which become irritating), they are just shaped slightly different. You are forced to touch-type properly, but that can be a good thing. It is, however, quite bad for hunting and pecking of any sort -- you can't type one-handed at all, even typing in one-key commands is annoying. Again, more casual computer users will be annoyed, serious programmers won't find this a big compromise -- you'll find you end up touch-typing even single key commands, and being able to fall directly into the home position makes this no big deal.
I can also touch-type numbers quite easily, because the keys are not staggered like on most keyboards. 4 is directly above F, 5 above G, etc. Since there's no keypad, this is nice (there's a keypad you can toggle on, but it's poorly implemented -- the toggle key is unreliable, there's no non-sticky toggle, and you can't type space while the keypad is turned on). On the subject of gripes, Escape is also a crappy little key (as is F1, Print Screen, and others, but that's okay because they are hardly ever used. Escape shouldn't be in that group). I imagine vi users might find this particularly unpleasant (though with xmodmap you can fix it -- maybe mapping Insert to Escape).
And, while gaming is not something someone with RSI should be doing much of ;), the keyboard can be both good and bad. For games with fixed key mappings (like most strategy games) you'll want a normal keyboard to swap in. For first-person shooters, the keyboard is great. You can reliably hit about 16 keys with one hand without any mistakes, and there's about five keys you can hit with your thumb while you are still completely free with the rest of you hand (for jumping, ducking, changing weapons, etc).
So, great keyboard, highly recommended even to people without very bad RSI (if they are serious typers, and other people don't use their computer). It has a few flaws, but you can probably fix them with xmodmap if they really bother you. It's expensive, but it's good quality and I've had mine for years with no problems.
Re:All about positioning (Score:2, Informative)
I've suffered from cts but am doing alright now. I use split keyboards and have learnt to type with all ten fingers. I think that the thing that most helped me is to relax every now and then and above all, good sleep. I find that when I am tense in my sleep I get pain in my hands a lot quicker because my muscles are more tense from the night.
Re:I suffered from RSI... (Score:3, Informative)
Part of the problem with keyboard trays is, they have to be set up at an appropriate height. This is going to vary greatly from person to person and you'll be lucky if you can find a desk/keyboard combination that works well for you (adjustable trays are best - others are crap). Even with an adjustable tray, there still needs to be room for things like legs.
I love my MS Natty keyboard.
Many causes, but the keyboards are cool (Score:2, Informative)
As far as mice go you want one on which you can rest your hand comfortably.
Much RSI is due to resting the forearms on the edge of the desk and of course those stupid desks with raised platforms for monitors among other idiocies. But some people do other stupid things like having the monitor off to the side, but the keyboard right in front of them.
There is also significant evidence that RSI is related to finger sensitivity and the maximum rate at which you can make small movements.