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Handhelds Hardware

New Nokia Phones - with Java 202

Posted by michael
from the anti-virus-software-not-included dept.
scrm writes: "Nokia just released a slew of new phones at CEBIT. Among them are two phones - a full-color phone and a cheap n' cheerful model - both of whose software can be upgraded with Java applications." And Haggis writes "Nokia are to use the Opera browser in the latest incarnation of their everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink mobile phone, the 9210i. Oh, and it will run Java applets too."
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New Nokia Phones - with Java

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  • multiplayer on PDA (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Interfacer (560564) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:31AM (#3155876)
    i wonder how long it will be before we are able to play multiplayer games via a PDA. that way they will really be nice to have. you could have deathmatches with just some people you meet on the train or so.
    • by dzym (544085) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:36AM (#3155894) Homepage Journal
      Not too much longer. Games such as Doom and Quake that have had their source code released have already been ported to various PDA platforms, and I wouldn't think it's much more of a stretch to operate a wireless tcp/ip dedicated server for these things...
      • by -brazil- (111867) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:49AM (#3155960) Homepage
        Theoreticall, it is already possible right now. I've run Quake on my IPaq, in two-player over Ethernet (with the partner using a PC). It should work the same using Infrared and possibly Bluetooth.


        Of course, the playability is very low. What we need for this to be really worth the bother is games that are designed for the small display and limited input ability of PDAs.

      • Not too much longer. Games such as Doom and Quake that have had their source code released have already been ported to various PDA platforms, and I wouldn't think it's much more of a stretch to operate a wireless tcp/ip dedicated server for these things...

        I can't wait to sit on the bus, practicing my circle-strafing with the 2,4,6 and 8 keys! (Or binding my # key to text-message "i OwN j0o!!" to my whole addressbook)

      • Check out MDoom [jshape.com].

        Keep in mind it's not a full doom replacement. But it's a start.

      • It's already ported for this phone [mbnet.fi]. I've play on my Nokia 9210 phone, and it's supposed to work on a lot of EPOC/SymbianOS device. You can see screenshot here [mbnet.fi] and here too [mbnet.fi].
    • well you can already play multiplayer games on cell phones for years - two player nokia snake via infrared.
    • Right now I'm working on a project to do just that for my networks class [yorku.ca]. Thus far I've only been working on asynchronous stuff like tic-tac-toe and chess, but what you describe is certainly feasible within a couple of years.

      The main limitations as I see it right now are:

      Little or no floating point support

      No real gaming/multimedia API's (although I understand this will change soon)

      The only protocol which has to be implemented on a device is HTTP.

      Poor control over the high-level UI

      Sharing data is a pain, if it works at all. (I haven't been able to make it, but that's just my experience so far)

      Basically programmers should be familiar with J2ME before they go planning any big projects. In the end my belief is that J2ME will be a success if not just for the device-independant aspect of it.

    • Ever travelled by train? People dont even _talk_ to each other. Wild guess: no-one is going to ask a co-traveler to join a high-tech-devices-needing thing like a PDA deathmatch game via your cellphone...

      If you want games, buy yourself a GBA or something simular. A phone is made to telephone, a PDA for keeping notes, addresses and a schedule...

      If makers of cellular phones intruduce a new phone by saying "Even with more games" or a new technology (like J2ME getting used by Nokia) "Great new games",... Please, fire the development team and search some peaple who want to improve the qualities that matter...

      Just my $.02
    • You may want to take a look at G-Cluster [g-cluster.com]. I saw one demo of this stuff in local game program. Basically, it's a wireless game system that is based on streaming video - all game sessions are kept on the server.

      They played Quake and TuxRacer in the demo. Pretty cool.

  • Tech Specs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:34AM (#3155887)
    Like, what is the darned resolution of the display, what bit depth, what version of Java, is it a version of AmigaDE ("Amiga Anywhere") like they have in the Nokia Mediaterminal?

    These are the things that are important to a geek. Not "snap on colours" and "colourful wallpapers". Gah. Fancy pandering to the mass market *again*.

    • Re:Tech Specs (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Phreakiture (547094)

      What we have here is a case of feature creep. I want a wireless phone to be little more than that -- wireless, and a phone. If it has a place to plug in to pass data, that is a useful bonus, likewise a place to plug in to pass analog audio (i.e. a headset). Anything more than that is garbage cluttering up the functionality of a device that one needs to be able to operate while driving, and therefore without looking at the display.... in which case, who cares if the display is in colour or not?

      I am disturbed by the recent trends to add menus to everything. There are cases (mobile phones, car radios, and, yes, digital cameras) where the functionality needs to be at your fingertips without fumbling through five layers of menus. I'm getting tired of it. I have to go through a menu to get to my $quot;speed" dial on my existing phone, and I assure you, it takes the "speed" out of it. Why do I want to put more crap into my phone?!?

      • Whilst it's hardly at the level of requiring Java programmability, text messaging is one example of a very useful feature beyond your "wireless" and "phone". It's hugely popular pretty much everywhere but America. It's cheaper and quicker than making a voice call, and you can send and receive text messages in places where you couldn't make a voice call (bars, for instance).

        My phone has some very basic PDA features as well - a simple appointment reminder. They work very well. I see no reason why more elaborate features wouldn't be even more useful.

        Finally, tetris is *always* useful :)

    • "...These are the things that are important to a geek. Not "snap on colours" and "colourful wallpapers"."

      But those are the things that make you part of the "in" crowd!
      ...Oh, yeah. Sorry. You're right. Not much use to us geeks (unless they bring out a Penguin cover).
    • The 9210 runs PersonalJava on Symbian. A future version will run J2ME on Symbian. That would be my guess about the other phones, as well.
      Then again, I thought the Nokia MediaTerminal just ran Linux.
  • Already there ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by dago (25724) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:36AM (#3155892)

    It makes (at least) 6 months since SIM cards with java have been shipped to customer (in Europe).

    So, it is already there in many phones and peoples already made some applets for them

    • Well I'm not actually claiming any relation to Java and viruses but, go check the slb.com link in the parent I'm replying to. Specifically check out the Bronze winner: "an advertisement platform that depends on peer-to-peer viral marketing to send SMS advertisement messages" Hopefully phone providers won't bundle such crap into the base phone's ROM.
      • Yep.

        But also 'traditionnal' P2P applications (like sharing ;)

        and hopefully, there's an option (at least on my phone) which makes that any action on/with the SIM card has to be acknowledged manually.
    • Vaporware Phones (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BadlandZ (1725)
      The Nokia 8390 has been announced as "comming soon in the US" for what, 6 months? And the release date has been pushed back month by month since at least December according to cnet.

      Not only are these phones going to probably have the wait you mention, they are probably not going to hit US shores for a long long time (if ever).

      IMHO, Samsung and Sanyo actually release phones that are cool without too much hype. Nokia has become a "designer brand" that people in the US pay for just to have, even if the technology is outdated by the time they get to the US.

      • by Anonymous Coward
        can you really blame them? USA is a fringe market when it comes to the mobile technology.
  • by The Qube (749) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:36AM (#3155895)
    This should be very good news for people who wish to extend the functionality of their Nokia phones.

    I for one cannot wait for an application that makes Nokia phones auto-lock the keypad after a certain period of inactivity.

    • Personally, I'd like the software to detect that the phone was in your pocket, and disable the unlock!

      Oh, the times I've pulled my phone out of my pocket, and it's been about to dial some strange telephone number in some far off place.
    • I for one cannot wait for an application that makes Nokia phones auto-lock the keypad after a certain period of inactivity.

      Ditto. I have been longing for that feature ever since the first time the battery was discharged while try to call various people at random. This feature should be impossible to patent, right?
    • Hmmn, auto-locking after inactivity? Not sure how you expect this to work - if you want it to prevent buttons being pressed when it's in your pocket, well, it's not going to be inactive if the buttons keep getting pressed...

      Like the ac said, if you have a Nokia, you can lock the keypad with the menu * combination. You don't have to unlock it to take a call, just to make one. I always hit Menu/* ater making a call, it's second nature now,a nd it only takes a second :)

  • I am going to put the 9210i on my Christmas Wish List!

    Okay, so i might be waiting a while, but this baby is worth the wait.

    Something decent to replace my crusty ancient 5110. *ashamed of owning it still*

    D.
    • Hmm, I guess you don't care about GPRS then.

      Granted, gprs service isn't that common yet, but for this kind of phone, you'd think it was one of the most important features.

  • by ankit (70020)
    Beowulf cluster of these!!

    err... sorry. Someone had to do it.

    Also, did you know? It runs Linux

    Time to increase my karma... ;-)
    • OMG ... It doesn't run Linux ... Quick ... scrub it off Slashdot ... It runs Symbian ... maybe it is given a stay of execution then ... Vikki
  • by bjb (3050) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:39AM (#3155908) Homepage Journal
    These phones may be cool, but Japan still has us beat for mobile phones.

    The phones out in Japan have large color screens, and the latest generation have cameras built in to them so you can take a picture and email it to someone! I believe you can also take stills and transmit them to the person on the other end of the call (something like once every 7 seconds). Also, take the train.. everyone is sitting there doing email (in Kanji none-the-less!). Still have yet to see that here as widespread as it is there.


    And I thought I was so cool when I bought my new phone a few months ago..

  • The radical new keypad layout breaks all the rules

    Like ease of use, or form follows function? Looks like a nice phone, but that keypad layout blows. I can't imagine dialing that thing without having to look at the phone while you dial. Annoying.
    • You're talking about the 7210, I presume.

      I think the keypad isn't that radical. It's at best Nokia-radical, which isn't much. It's much more traditional than the monster 5510 (which, I believe, will suffer an unnoticed death).

      I must disagree with you; the form does follow function in this case, too. The keys seem to be in the exact same order as in previous models. They just look a bit different, that's all. The number grid IS the form in phone keypads, and it's still there. And I can't imagine dialing a phone without looking at the keypad either. In fact, I think, most people usually look at the keys so they know what to type next. It's how we use (mobile) phones, usually.

      What comes to the ease of use.. Well, neither of us can say at this point. However I do know that Nokia tests it's models before releasing them, so they should be pretty usable. ;) Or have you already used this model?
  • Applets? (Score:5, Informative)

    by rbeattie (43187) <russ@russellbeattie.com> on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:41AM (#3155924) Homepage
    Let's use 6 year old terminology shall we?

    The Nokia 7210 and 3410 will both most likely be using Java 2 Micro Edition (J2ME) which is a subset of Java that runs on low power devices. They'll be able to run "midlets" which are like applets in the sense that they run in a sandbox, but don't derive from the Applet class and are made to run in low memory and be connected via wireless connections. It'll be good for small connected apps like stock quotes, email, and games. But with no support for multimedia now (sound) don't expect these games to be anything amazing.

    The Nokia 9210i runs on Symbian which is a full-fledged 32 bit OS derived from the EPOC platform. The Java integration in Symbian is based on Personal Java, but the Symbian guys have integrated Java deeply in the OS, which means you can access all the same APIs and functionality as you can with C++ programming. These will run pretty much full-fledged Java apps (based on a modified JDK 1.1 spec) and can't be compared to applets at all.

    -Russ

    • Re:Applets? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by d6y (47741)
      > But with no support for multimedia now (sound)
      > don't expect these games to be anything amazing.

      They're not tooooooo bad. There are a few to try at midlet.org [midlet.org]

      • Re:Applets? (Score:5, Informative)

        by jamesidm (244299) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @10:27AM (#3156152)
        wow they have ported VNC to it already!

        http://midlet.org/jsp/category.jsp?parentLevel=1 37

        2nd from the bottom
        • wow they have ported VNC to it already!

          Perhaps you don't understand the nature of Java. The whole idea is that you don't have to port an application at all. I have a Psion 5mx (which runs EPOC-the predicessor OS to Symbian) and it has plenty of Java programs packaged to make them easially installable on the handheld. I personally don't need VNC, but I do use the MindTerm SSH 1/2 java app.

          Java runs nicely, as do all the programs (I'd say the OS is the most stable & most friendly OS I've used) not to mention all the full features applications start up instantly with only a 36MHz processor. It's a great OS, and I'm glad to know it's going to take over a large number of portable devices. I'm not too happy about the color screen (drains batteries and can't be seen in sunlight).
    • These will run pretty much full-fledged Java apps (based on a modified JDK 1.1 spec) and can't be compared to applets at all.

      JDK1.1? ACK!
      I thought I'd never have to deal with that again. With the amount of improvments to Java in the 1.2 release (speed and memory usage, especially), you'd imagine no one would ever look back.
      • Welcome to my own personal hell.

        Writing a building monitoring program, that can run in a browser. And has to fit in a 24 kbyte profile. And runs on Java 1.1

        But - I'm almost there. 19.6 kbytes when the program is jarred, and I only have to add two more functions to it.
  • The "From the Editor" section of the Feb. 2002 Java Developers Journal [javadevelo...ournal.com] was just addressing the lack of Java-enabled Nokia phones in the U.S.
  • Phones? Bah. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mccalli (323026) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @09:44AM (#3155941) Homepage
    Bah. And again I say...bah!

    Why? Well, most phones I've ever tried have been poor. Poor build quality, particularly in regard to securing the battery connection. Average to poor interfaces (how long before someone finally adds 'Reply and erase' to their SMS options?). Poor damage resistance. Ill-thought out, unprotected keypads that are pressed by anything leaning against them whilst in your pocket, the synchronisation software that comes with them tends to be poor...

    OK, so the 'lock keypad' function is used to get round one of those moans. But that's extra hassle - one more step for me to take to compensate for their poor designs.

    I'm on my fourth, and best, mobile at the moment. It's one step back (possibly even two steps now) from Nokia's latest stuff - the 8850 [nokia.com]. Solves my annoyance with the keypad, but still the screen is too easily scratched, still the SMS side of things remains ill-thought out, and the PC Suite [nokia.com] for it is hopelessly out of date and utterly useless.

    Whilst Java phones sound nice (I'm a primarily Java-based developer by trade), I'd sacrifice the entire lot for an industrial design that works as a basic phone without falling apart.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    • by haggar (72771)
      I figured this is EXACTLY what you need.

      http://www.nokia.com/phones/6250/index.html

      Enjoy :o)

      • I figured this is EXACTLY what you need.

        Looks like it fits my durability bill. Keyboard moan still stands, and having owned a 6210 [nokia.com] I imagine that the SMS and synchronisation moans remain too.

        Looks heavy too. And ugly. Ah well - trade offs, trade offs...

        Cheers,
        Ian

    • Re:Phones? Bah. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Combuchan (123208)
      Why? Well, most phones I've ever tried have been poor. Poor build quality ...

      I don't know which phones you've used, but I've found Nokia's industrial design to be absolutely top-notch. I've dropped one of their ubiquitous 5100 series [nokiausa.com] from great heights, and the thing bounces back like a tennis ball ready for more torture. They're built like tanks--I've opened them up and marveled at the strength of the guts inside.

      particularly in regard to securing the battery connection.

      Tape it if it's broken. How often do you swap batteries? Lithium ion batteries last for hours and I used to carry around a charger in my pack and charge it where I found it convenient.

      OK, so the 'lock keypad' function is used to get round one of those moans.

      Which would you rather have? A flip-phone? Ever seen the ear part of the flip after it's been caught in a car door and bent 45-degrees backward? Phone engineers have to deal with the rigors of the environments in which their phones will be used. I'd much rather have to key in Menu Button, * than deal with a flimsy piece of plastic that could just easily break off.

      ... and the PC Suite [nokia.com] for it is hopelessly out of date and utterly useless.

      I've never used PC Suite, but I assume anything that comes on 3.5" disks fits your description, and nor would it surprise me. My solution: Don't use it. Gnokii [gnokii.org] is an incredibly done application and served me quite well for the few months I had my 5190.

      I'd sacrifice the entire lot for an industrial design that works as a basic phone without falling apart.

      I think it's a tad premature to discount next-generation technology phones based on inexperiences with the myopic designs of the first generation series phones. Nokia, et. al. designed the 5190 and the 8850 to be talked on first, SMS'd with second. I would hope Nokia has overcome these interface issues with their more advanced phones as they come out.

      It's totally moot to me--I won't see any of these phones for a long, long time as Nokia barely caters to the US market outside of AT&T Wireless's desires--a company I'd rather not deal with again.
      • Re:Phones? Bah. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mccalli (323026)
        I sort of agree with a number of those points, so I don't want this reply to sound harsh. However, here's my viewpoints on the answers:

        I don't know which phones you've used,
        Ericsson Tsomething-or-other, Ericisson T29, Nokia 3210, Nokia 6210, Motorola something-or-other, Nokia 8850.

        Of those, the Ericssons were the worst for battery connections, with the Nokia 6210 coming a very close second. The Motorola was the most durable by far.

        Tape it if it's broken.
        Why should it break? It's just sitting there. Surely there should be some structural strength attached to the connection? Maybe a snap-in plug-based connector or something?

        ...I assume anything that comes on 3.5" disks fits your description
        Why? The software I got to replace it, Phone Manager [oxygensoftware.com] could also have fitted onto a floppy disk. Their suite comes on CD rom, though I forget how big the actual download size is.

        I think it's a tad premature to discount next-generation technology phones based on inexperiences with the myopic designs of the first generation series phones.
        Here is where I sort of agree with you. In my opinion though, we're a long way from the first generation phones - they appeared in the eighties. We're even a fair distance away from first generation GSM. However, if you don't give their new stuff a look over then you'll never know if they've ever improved.

        Cheers,
        Ian

    • It's true, most phones are really badly designed, and not too well made. I've tried many, but keep going back to my old Star-Tac. I'm also a Java developer, and a usability specialist.

      Forget all this Java/web stuff. What I really want is a pocketable phone that's waterproof!
  • It looks like the models are not for US. I don't know how much memory are in those phones, but I'm guessing it's less than 4megs. After you subtract the memory used by all the other applications, it might only be 600K. It should be fairly easy to write a real time mapping application that uses 60-80K of memory assuming the phone can calculate it's location based on the cell.
  • yeah its a troll....mod me down :)

  • One of the original intentions for using Java, was to embed it in mobile devices... but it was adopted as a web toy before much else.

    I remember, in Fall '97, at the South-Eastern US ACM Programming competition (which IBM sponsored), their speaker / representative went on about how wonderful Java was, and that it would be in our wristwatches. Some laughed... some said, "Yeah, right," but others, like myself were thinking, "Well hurry up already!"
  • Hmm, a cell phone with wallpaper on it's color display. Too bad it's still the standard 1 1/2 x 1 inch display!

    Yes! they break all the "rules". Aren't you fed up with the boring and predictable keypad layout of ordinary flat beds... eh, cell phones? Well you're in luck because Nokia has reinvented the keypad for this phone! I hear that not to be outdone Apple has leaked word of the Uniphone which has only one button - press it once for 1, twice for 2, etc. [The really exciting piece is where you press it no times for 0.]

    Actually there are some useful features on this phone but the marketing geeks seem enthralled with the wallpaper, "press-on" covers, polyphonic tones played through a "real speaker", and a built-in FM radio. Gee - all it needs is a "fashion suppository cover"** to be really useful.

    ** - For those who don't appreciate the fashion hipness of their fellow cell phone users!

  • ... I thought about posting a story about the P800 (208*320 colour screen, Symbian OS (Epoc) v7, small as their usual phones) but ...


    Oh well, here's one link: you want one [symbian.com]

  • I've been waiting for this for a while

    According to the site, the phones will be running J2ME (Micro Edition), and personal applications can be downloaded.

    The best part is that they've reserved 150kb memory on the phones for these personal applications. Should definitely be fun to try.

    I only wonder how decent the garbage collector is :)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    According to Nokia's website, both the 7210 and the 6310i are going to be tri-band GSM (900/1800/1900) phones. That would be a first for Nokia! And the 7210 will also get a colour screen. Guess they finally felt Ericsson breathing down their necks with the T68...

    It's about time. :-)

    Now we Europeans can finally show off our cool phones in the US too... ;-)

    (Yes, I know, the 8890 worked both in Europe and the US too, but my cellphone company operates on 1800MHz...)
  • Since you won't probably see that in the US for YEARS, you could consider getting a color screen Ericson unlocked that will work in the US [ustronics.com] now, even if the bells and whistle midlets don't work on it.

    I think cell phones have computer beat for disposable.

  • Anyone find it ironic that most of these phones are available in Africa prior to the US? Now, I'll bet that basically means South Africa and maybe some of the horn-area urban centers, but still.

    I for one, think it's heartening. In 100 years, the so-called "dark continent" could be a major center for tech, if they can get some decent leadership in place and stop all the civil wars.
    • The irony is not that they get the Europhones before the States, but that after getting out of the colony business, Europe still has technical and mercantile hegemony over their erstwhile dependancies.

  • Am I the only one that is worried that Nokia's designers have appear to have been hit by a bus and replaced by performing monkeys?

    Its either that or they were high on something when they came up with those designs. They look horrific!

    I've got a Ericsson T68 here and its so badly thought out (horrible menu system, slow, unintuiative) that it makes me realise why I like Nokia's so much. Oh and the joystick feels wonky and you can accidently select when you want to go up.

    All the crapness of Ericsson with none of the hardware quality of Sony. Good partnership there SonyEricsson!

  • A recent UK article about next-gen Java phones pointed out one major downside: you can expect to be paying for games. So not only will the phone come with genuine retro games, they'll also be equipped with a genuine credit facility. Except you won't be dropping quarters in a slot.

    This is one big way the phone companies will get people to pay for content - they've been worried about how the Japanese IMode model of paying for pics etc would stack up in the west. But with pay-per-gameplay, they have every chance of making big bucks.
  • Nextel's i90c has ability to run java apps & download new apps. Yesterday I had minesweeper on my phone, then I installed paddleball onto my phone, with a quick download on my phone. The "cooler" games you actually have to purchase. They keep track of what you have purchased online, so if you had to uninstall something because you ran out of space, you can allways re-install it later, all via your phone.

    http://www.nextel.com/kjavaapps/javaapps_index.s ht ml

    Not a bad little phone, needs a bit longer standy time though
  • This is kool and the gang (esp. since I'm a java developer), but according to the website only the 6310i [nokia.com] and the 7210 [nokia.com] claim to actually work in America. They are GSM-only to boot, which means you'll have to find a GSM carrier in your area [gsmworld.com] that has roaming partners where you travel. GSM is just getting a foothold in the US while in other parts of the world it's the dominant network infrastructure.

    Now I know how folks that had a clost full of Laserdisc movies felt [zdnet.com] when DVD finally came out.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      USA has screwed up its cellphone market by fragmenting technologies. No wonder wired called it a "national shame" a while ago: being about 2 years behind the rest of the world in adopting *the* world standard for cellphones.
      Heck, even in Africa one feels less 3rd world when it comes to cellphones. Come to the USA: no coverage, stupid contracts, extremely expensive (and idiotically short-termed) prepaid cards... bleah.

    • Oh, so you mean they'll work anywhere in the entire world, except one country? I guess they ain't no use to anyone then. Darn it.

      Surely your headline should have read "New phones work perfectly in Europe/Asia/Africa/Australasia/South America"?

      Anyway, PCS is just a frequency variant of GSM, so to say that there are few GSM networks in the US is not really accurate.

      • Oh, so you mean they'll work anywhere in the entire world, except one country? I guess they ain't no use to anyone then. Darn it.

        Sorry, I'm an American living in the US and I tend not to get excited about things until they're available in my own backyard. These phones are great, and I'm very excited about them, but I can't have one yet, and I don't plan to move to Asia/Europe just to have one.

        Anyway, PCS is just a frequency variant of GSM, so to say that there are few GSM networks in the US is not really accurate.

        Huh? So you're saying that I can just take my PCS phone to a GSM-only country, sign up for service w/a carrier and expect it to work? This is simply not true. In my original post, I provided a map of GSM coverage [gsmworld.com] in the US by all carriers, check it out. Coverage is very sparse.
        • Huh? So you're saying that I can just take my PCS phone to a GSM-only country, sign up for service w/a carrier and expect it to work?

          No of course not, because the frequency is different, as I said. GSM is just a protocol, it can run on any frequency. The reason US/RoW are divided with phones is that the US run GSM at a different frequency, and call it PCS. Everyone elses uses 900 or 1800 MHz, you guys use 1900 MHz (IIRC).
      • PCS is NOT a frequency variant of GSM. PCS (Personal Communication Services) is the FCC definition for digital wireless services at the 1900 MHz bandwith range. This includes CDMA [cdg.org], TDMA [tdma-edge.com], and GSM [gsmworld.com] which run in North America at 1900 MHz as opposed to 800 MHz most everywhere else.

        The problem here is not Europe being technologically superior the United States, but the fact that their mobile systems run at GSM 900 and 1800 MHz. GSM in the united states is exclusively 1900 MHz.

        That being said, Nokia et. al. could easily retool their 800/1800 MHz GSM phones to work at 1900 MHz, but that's just part of the problem. Nokia doesn't sell directly to the consumer, and support is left to the provider, whose customers have a tendency to be more idiotic than their european counterparts.

        Providers here have a hard enough time trying to teach Sally Chatterbox and Joe AOL how to use their digital phones, and here you have the other reason why you're not likely to see these kinds of mass-marketed advanced phones here.

        • "and GSM [gsmworld.com] which run in North America at 1900 MHz as opposed to 800 MHz most everywhere else."

          Partly correct. GSM in North America is indeed at 1900 MHz but elsewhere in the world it's 900 MHz and 1800 MHz. Your average "dual band" GSM phones work on 900 MHz and 1800 MHz, except for Nokia's 8890 which works at 900 and 1900 MHz. Tribands work on all three. I think there's another band used for GSM too in North America - 800 MHz (possibly 850 MHz) but I'm not 100% sure about that one.
          • 800mhz is the old analog cell band in the US. I used to have a digital phone that worked on that band in the US, the provder had equipment that could sense I was on a digital phone, and send digital data to me, while someone else could use a analog phone with the same equipment on their end.

            AFAIK no 800 mhz provider uses GSM for their digital system, but there is no technical reason they cannot. I'm not sure that the equipment to do it has ever been made though.

            GSM isn't common in the US, but I've never been in a major US city where I couldn't use my GSM phone. I have been in parts of the country where there was NO phone service. (no physical wires, and no cell towers in any format) Keep that in mind when comparing coverage, there is a lot of area in the US where there is no phone service, so picking on the lack of GSM there disorts the picture.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Sweet, that'll save me a trip to Starbucks every morning.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Now how do you get emacs running on it?
    Not that vi wouldn't be enough but...
  • The new RIM Blackberry already does this (ie, has java built in)... they tout it as Java-Based BlackBerry Handheld With Integrated Phone for GSM/GPRS Networks in North America [blackberry.net], which is great because Nokia usually starts a launch of products in Europe/Asia, and living in North America I can get my hand on one of these java-based babies sooner.
  • I've had 3 Nokia phones (1631, 3310, 3330) and each one of them has had many bugs. First two lasted about one year (no warranty left...) and then just suddenly stopped working.

    The 3330 still works but occasionally it just shuts itself down without a reason. And one time it did it when it was attached to a battery charger.

    So, no new Nokia phones for me.
  • It's very slick, speed is good, but getting your own apps onto the phone is like pulling teeth. I've read many pages of info at nextel.com and motorola.com to figure out how to get stuff onto the i85s with very little luck.
    The Java api was pretty well adapted, the record store stuff is nice, but the http connections are a bit more awkward than the normal url handling in J2SE. The CLDC/MIDP spec did make one omission, lack of https transport. The motorola phones do offer it, but only for Verisign certificates. ugh.
  • "Appplets"? Will they be sandboxed to only be able to send data to the phone number they came from? :0

    Seriously, I just saw someone above mention 'stock quotes' and 'email'. Do we not already have enough devices to do this? Can no one come up with any other app besides 'stock quotes'?
  • I want this in CDMA! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by InterruptDescriptorT (531083) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @10:34AM (#3156193) Homepage
    Weird, isn't it?

    The society with the greatest lust for cellphones is still stuck with old technology. So, what that means is geeks like me living in the US who desperately want to ditch their crappy Audiovox cellies for something that I can develop on (like the Nokia Java phones) have to wait because the big cellular providers/FCC/government spooks/whoever won't go GSM like the rest of the world.

    Oh well--I guess that still provides me with an opportunity to ask: Are there any US-capable cell phones (not Nextel--those guys are evil) that are developer friendly? I'd love to spend time writing little phone apps, and I remember seeing an article in Game Developer magazine about the coming craze of mobile gaming. Is there a phone which will let me get in on this here?
  • No, just no.
    A horrable choice of style over usabiliy !
  • Why nobody told anything about Opera being browser on Nokia? Just because it isn't Mozilla and/or Opensource?

    Just watch how much MS tries to conquer the PDA world, now think again...

  • Currently, you can't download the developer kit for 9210 from Nokia's site. You need to sign up and give them a postal address. They will send you a free CD.
    I'm personally very interested in the 9210 because of its JTAPI implementation. I assume that the other models lack that.
    Are there any other Java developers out there who have written code for the 9210 and would like to share tips or resources?
  • This is one of those examples of why its great to have a cell phone in the US. Since every carrier uses a different signal setup, Nokia, and every other phone maker can't just make one phone and sell it everywhere. Since they have to enter into agreements with the wireless carriers (!) and make phones especially for a particular carrier we'll get these phones years after the rest of the world. Oh, and it will be more expensive to boot! So take a long look, and start waiting.
  • I know there've been a million complaints about Slashdot being too focused on the USA, so I might as well back the complaint up...

    Anyone know when these will be available in the US?

  • by JMZero (449047)
    Should have called the portable Java VM "Cupholder".

    .
  • They had Java enabled cell phones last year in Japan with 16-bit color screens too. My friend even had Dance Dance Revolution on his phone! But they had bugs too, including one that made the recipients of a specially formatted email's phones dial the Japanese equivalent of 911...
  • So what it has java. Whats the big deal?

    There are benefits to embedded java, but its not you being able to load your random applet...

    This is most likely Java ME (micro edition). However, its not there so you can run various applets. Its there for Nokia. So they can add features and benefits and have a modular platform. It doesen't hurt them to be able to say "we do Java", but to the end user I hardly see the benefit.

    This is the same Junk I went through last week. I attended the SAE show(society of automotive engineers). M$, Sun, IBM, were all there pusing their (non automotive related) gadjets into cars, and since its within the confines of the car, they call it automotive.

    We only care about stuff like memory seat modules, alarms, airbag modules, powertrain controllers, power window/mirrors/lock modules, etc...Java I had hoped would ease our programming of these modules. We can use the same code on multiple processors without having to do a damn near complete rewrite. But when they came at me with 2MB RAM requirement, and 32bit processor, I just got sick to my stomach. They are holding all these bluetooth and other libraries in the JVM that we don't even use.

    So they did not make me happy. the KVM which is about 50K is more like it. But theres not much you can hype up with a 50K JVM ;)

  • What Java phones can I get in the US now? The Motorola i85?

    Do any US Java phones let me send my own custom packets? Meaning, could I write a wireless tic-tac-toe game once I learn midlet programming?
    • What Java phones can I get in the US now? The Motorola i85?

      Motorola i85s, i55sr, i90c, i50sx, i80s.

      Do any US Java phones let me send my own custom packets? Meaning, could I write a wireless tic-tac-toe game once I learn midlet programming?

      Yes, but They make you jump through hoops [motorola.com] first.

  • by scorcherer (325559) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @12:13PM (#3156741) Homepage
    • Nokia of Finland
    • Opera of Norway
    • I bastun bor vi allihopa (The Swedish codename of GNOME)
    • Hej, det här är Linus Torvalds och jag uttalar Linux 'Linux'. (He is from Finland and Swedish is his mother tongue)
    Anyone else see a Nordic conspiracy here?

    fnord ... f+nordic. Think about it.

    • In a cold dark room inside of a stone castle on an island off the coast of Sweden in the North Sea sit a group of Finns, Swedes and Norwegians. A man sitting at the head of the table, wearing an embroidered Viking hat, pounds his fist onto the table.

      "I want one-trillion dollars. One-trillion!" commands Galvar. "No more, no less. We will rule the world!"

  • by asv108 (141455)
    I can't believe AT&T wireless spent all that money on the mlife campaign without releasing any new phones. I've been an AT&T customer for many years now; their flagship phone is the nokia 8260 which has been available for over 2 years! You think AT&T's marketing department would have enough sense to introduce new phones during the campaign, especially since the 8260 is what drove a lot of consumers their way since everyone wants to have the smallest phone. Look at a company like Nextel, people switch to Nextel specifically for the phones and features.
    • There are a few new phones, actually. Nokia 8390 and the Ericsson T68 are among the new offerings.

      Basically, marketing got too much money and boy, did they run with it..hehe
  • by autopr0n (534291)
    Damn the US phone companies and their non-standard technologies!

    DAMN THEM TO HELL!!!

  • by El Camino SS (264212) on Wednesday March 13, 2002 @01:38PM (#3157423)

    These kind of features are the reason I don't own a cell phone, and make my friends turn them off around me.

    Great. I can't wait to get killed because some moron is blowing down the highway and can't be bothered to look up because he's on a hot streak after getting a double-railing. "(Sarcasm) Where can I sign up?"

    Really. I would like to take my E-mail with me. Good idea. Sell me that. Make it small so people can't read it while driving.

    It bothers the heck out of me when I see someone having a long, loud, boring conversation in the open air about his personal business all around me. Slowing down the grocery line, yammering about god knows what, making it impossible to reach for their wallet or purse, screeching away at the top of their lungs and ignoring everyone around them. Nowadays, even friends have no sense of priority. I take the time to visit a friend, then some jacksmack calls and hijacks their time for a half-hour while I stare at the ceiling. Why? Because in this society the cell phone is more importanst than any person sitting in front of you. Cell phones are the death of gentility and manners. Every personal cell phone call is more important than anything else. Period.

    I carry a pager. I don't have to answer. I still get to friends and parties. They can even let me know if it is an emergency.

    I drive professionally for about half of my day. I would say that a good 95% of the people that don't let me in traffic while my on-ramp is quickly ending on me are on phones. They can't be bothered to watch for other drivers... 'they' have a conversation to attend to, which is obviously much more important than that tractor-trailer next to you.

    I actually saw a woman a month ago doing seventy on a city interstate bridge ramp dictating legal documents over a cell phone while changing lanes. For the first time ever... I actually wanted to see her vault off of the ramp and disappear into the river before she caused negligent homicide.

    I like Darwin just fine. But I didn't choose to yack at someone in the middle of traffic. I expect to not die for these kinds of selfish mistakes.

    New York has it right. Knowing New Yorkers and the way they are to their fellow man, you had to pass a law or risk EVERYONE getting killed on the highway.
  • Will it be possible to use the Opera mouse gestures with this new phone? I find the mouse gestures incredibly useful, and they are the reason I can no longer even use IEXPLORE without a certain twang of pain. Judging from the miniscule size of that phone, there will already be something of a painful twang just through regular use, but that may well be diminished by the mouse gestures.

IF I HAD A MINE SHAFT, I don't think I would just abandon it. There's got to be a better way. -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

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