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Handhelds Hardware

Handspring Treo Now Available 207

Posted by michael from the toys-for-grownups dept.
miradu2000 writes: "Handspring's Treo, the revolutionary new communicator is now shipping. This has been anticipated since October. See the scoop here! This could change the world..." My guess is no, it won't change the world. But it could reduce by one the number of gadgets a lot of people carry around.
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Handspring Treo Now Available More

Handspring Treo Now Available

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  • wow (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Mr804 ( 12397 )
    Nice price tag... Is a palm pilot + cell phone worth 400 bucks?

    Color palm pilot = 200 bucks.
    Ghetto cell phone = 80 bucks.

  • I'd love it...if I could afford it... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Amigori ( 177092 ) <eefranklin718@@@yahoo...com> on Monday February 11, 2002 @09:47AM (#2986403) Homepage
    This looks to be very promising, but I wonder if the current marketplace can afford its price. $400 (or $550 if you already have a GSM provider) isn't too much considering your getting a wireless Palm and a cell phone, but considering I was layed-off last month, this won't be replacing my Palm m105 and Motorola v120c. Oh well...one can still dream...

    Amigori

  • For those who want the scoop... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ekrout ( 139379 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @09:47AM (#2986404) Journal
    For those who want the scoop, there's a video available with the co-founder of this neat little gadget (he also was the inventor of the Palm Pilot that many have come to love).

    The formats supported are RealPlayer, Windows Media Player, and QuickTime. It's available in 56k, 100k, and 300k flavors.

    I just watched it and thought it was kind of neat.

    http://www.handspring.com/products/treo/choose_spe ed.jhtml [handspring.com]
  • The color model Found Here [handspring.com] It should be out mid this year.
  • Just like Palm, it looks like Handspring missed the boat on this one.

    1. Where is the color screen?
    2. Way to expensive - 549 US dollars "without service activation" I kind of like my current Cellular provider.

  • VisorPhone experience (Score:5, Informative)

    by gwernol ( 167574 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @09:52AM (#2986421)
    I've been using a Handspring Visor and VisorPhone attachment for a little over a year now. For those who don't know, the VisorPhone is a plug-in Springboard module that adds a cell phone to your Visor. Its sort of the prototype for the Treo.

    I really like the VisorPhone, although its not without drawbacks. Its a little large; well actually the combined unit is a little large. It defintely looks a little geeky, and I think the Treo will be worse - Captain Kirk anyone? I'm using the Cingular service here in San Francisco and the reception is not great. I sometimes find I am struggling to get a signal when other cell phone users aren't.

    All that being said I like the VisorPhone lots and will probably upgrade to a Treo Real Soon Now. The main advantages are having only one unit to carry around (I'd have a Palm device anyway); having everything always synched up (again I'd be synching my Palm anyway, this way my phone book gets updated as well); good software integration into the standard PalmOS apps; and I can play DopeWars on my phone.

    Just don't drop it. I've had to replace the screen 3 times. One of the biggest features of the Treo for me is that flip up screen cover...
    • I joined the Omnisky trial in the UK last year - it was a Visor and VisorPhone for £199 plus three months service on a very locked BT Cellnet mobile account. Omnisky canned their service after the trail (which was unsurprising - they couldn't work out a way to make it attractive even to us hardcore geeks). They kept their promise of unlocking the phone when the trial ended and I now run it on a Vodafone PAYG chip (not very often though - they're pretty expensive).

      It's interesting to see that Cellnet (or mmO2 as they're now inexplicably called) are going to be providing service to the Treo in the UK - one hopes that they'll look into GPRS sooner rather than later as GSM is still way too expensive for this sort of machine. Having said, if they do a deal for Visorphone owners in the UK I'll probably try and stop finding ways of trying to gaffa my Nokia 8120 to my Palm Vx...

      • Re:VisorPhone experience (Score:4, Informative)

        by Ioldanach ( 88584 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @11:17AM (#2986880)

        ...one hopes that they'll look into GPRS sooner rather than later ...

        From the FAQ:

        Q. Will your product be upgradeable to GPRS?

        A. Yes. When the GPRS networks are commercially available and carriers are offering GPRS service plans, Treo communicators will be upgradeable via a software patch from Handspring.

        Q. What version of GPRS is the Treo communicator going to use?

        A. The Treo communicator will support GPRS class 2, which will provide two channels down and one up (otherwise known as "2+1") for throughput up to 28.8Kbps.

        • Hmmm - according to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=27788&cid=2986 922 (post from a UK Treo GPRS user), the Treo is a GPRS multi-slot class 10 device, aka 4+2 slots, meaning 53.6 Kbps downstream. I hope the latter is right... I think the UK/Europe device is 900/1800 MHz so it could be a different chipset that's the explanation.
    • I've also been using the visorphone for a few months, and, generally I love it, but it is certainly not perfect.

      The sound quality on my unit is pretty bad. I can hear the person I'm talking to just fine, but everyone says my voice is accompanied by loud buzzing noises. It sounds like interferance, and the weaker the signal is, the louder the interferance, as if it gets worse when the phone has to jack up its output to compensate.

      It is nice to only carry one device, although I have to admit that carrying a small cellphone and separate visor wouldn't be much bigger. The phone battery really adds a lot of bulk to the visor. And then there's the fairly-rare but oh-so inconvenient times when the palm crashes hard and has to be reset, and I've lost all my settings and phone data until I can manage to re-synch to my computer.

      My favorite things about it are the geek appeal: I can browse the web and check my email with the visor display instead of some crappy cellphone. The data connection is slow, but the interface is quite usable.

      My overall opinion is that it's a great toy for geeks, but the more mainstream people probably wouldn't want to put up with its quirkiness.
    • I also have Cingular in SF, and it sucks whatever phone you have. Verizon is also bad, but AT&T is actually real good. I'm switching to them as soon as my 1 year with Cingular is up.

      Just a consumer information apropos.
    • Gwernol,

      Since you have a VisorPhone attachment can you use both your VisorPhone and your regular cell phone? I'm sure you cannot use the services concurrently, but can you say turn off your cell phone and then use your VisorPhone or vice versa? I'm interested in using the VisorPhone on occasion, but I'm in no rush to replace my cell phone since its form factor is much smaller. Thanks for any help.

      JOhn

      • Since you have a VisorPhone attachment can you use both your VisorPhone and your regular cell phone? I'm sure you cannot use the services concurrently, but can you say turn off your cell phone and then use your VisorPhone or vice versa? I'm interested in using the VisorPhone on occasion, but I'm in no rush to replace my cell phone since its form factor is much smaller. Thanks for any help.

        I don't have a cell phone, I just have my VisorPhone. I would guess that you can't do what you are describing since most cellular services are tied to the SMID card in your cell phone. As you phone and VisorPhone have separate SMID cards the network would see them as different devices and require you to have two accounts. The only way around this is that the VisorPhone does use an SMID card, so you could swap the card between the devices. This would be a monumental pain in the butt, though.

        • In the UK, at least one operator (Vodafone) lets you have two SIM cards (that's your 'SMID card', SIMs are what they are usually card) on a single account and single phone number. This is meant to address exactly this problem. Not sure what happens on incoming calls, perhaps one is permanently the 'incoming' device.
  • .... but the battery life sucks. Anybody know what the battery life is on this thing?
    • Anybody know what the battery life is on this thing?

      Not great [time.com]
    • The Time.com article quotes the need for daily recharging.

      I'd say this is about right. My VisorPhone requires recharging once a day if I'm using it to make calls, it will last nearly 3 days on a full charge on standby. I'd guess the power drain of the Treo is similar to a Handspring+VisorPhone.
      • My VisorPhone requires recharging once a day if I'm using it to make calls, it will last nearly 3 days on a full charge on standby

        This is insane. My Nokia 6210 survives over a week on standby and on average four days with normal calling patterns.

        The Palm Vx survives a couple weeks easy without charging, provided that it's not accidentally turned on while in the bag or so.

        A cell phone requiring daily recharge is simply inacceptable in this day and age.

        • A cell phone requiring daily recharge is simply inacceptable in this day and age.

          I've discovered in this economy it's actually: a human being requiring daily recharge is simply inacceptable in this day and age.

  • Kyocera?? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by alta ( 1263 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @09:54AM (#2986429) Homepage Journal
    A friend of mine has a Kyocera that does most of the same things (sans optional keyboard.)

    What does the Treo offer over that?

    • Re:Kyocera?? (Score:2, Informative)

      by smittyoneeach ( 243267 )
      Got the Kyocera as well.
      The Treo appears to be engineered more effectively, in terms of the
      upcoming color unit,
      keyboard option,
      smaller form factor,
      removal of buttons from cover/flip portion.
      For those who publicly admit to using M$ products, Kyocera's Chapura interface for Outleak manages to lock the contacts list if accessed via the jog dial.
      You can dial someone from the contacts list once, but then you have to do a soft reset before it will synchronize.
      Does anyone know of a site that summarizes the cel standards and their areas of implementation, along with providers? Sure would be nice to buy a phone/PDA that is useful both here and abroad.
      • See www.gsmworld.com for info on GSM around the world - about 70% of mobile subscribers worldwide use GSM, so it is pretty much everywhere except Japan. Some providers won't have GPRS, though, and those that do won't have enabled GPRS roaming, but you can at least make phone calls wherever you are - I've used my GSM phone in India as well as all over Europe. It even worked a week ago while I was skiing in the Alps (mountaintop base stations...)

        If you are staying some time in a country, it's worth getting a local GSM SIM card (subscriber card) that's pre-paid - means you pay for local calls at the normal rate, though your number changes.

    • good design? Have you looked at the kyocera? it's kind of a ugly piece of junk. i wouldnt want to carry it on me.

    • Re:Kyocera?? (Score:2, Informative)

      by popular ( 301484 )
      The Samsung I300 [samsungelectronics.com] trounces both, and manages to do so without being quite so fugly.
    • How about global roaming? The "world" is not Canada and the US.

  • It says here [handspring.com] "GPRS upgradeable upon availability" - that rather implies it's not GPRS (General Packet Radio Service) at launch. That makes this rather less desirable - it's not "always on", and you're charged by time rather than by data. The fact it says "upon availability" makes this sound like a rushed out product. Compare this with the RIM Blackberry [blackberry.net], which has been out for ages and has GPRS.

  • no gprs no triband no bluetooth (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    like the palm 705, this one has no gprs.

    so you can just use it for wap and email.
    the absence of a proper internet connection
    make this product half-baked.

    For faster speed you can use the nokia communicator, but neither the nokia, the palm
    or the handspring has triband, so you can not use
    them everywhere.

    Also none has bluethooth; so even with the nokia
    if you want to browse the internet on a laptop
    via one of those devices, you are screwed.

    Better wait for the next generation or if you
    do not mind the weight, get a cheaper palmtop and
    a phone with gprs, triband and bluetooth.
  • I remember a couple years ago when i ordered my Visor Deluxe.... just when the company was starting up. I got the unit about 2 months after I ordered it, and it was non functional... they sent me another one and the screen was cracked. Finally over 3 months after my initial order I got a working unit. Grandted that I really liked it... but it was such a hastle. I hope they have the ability now to ship their products in a timely manner and have implemented some serious qa. ALso... the prce seems kinda high....... at least I think so.

  • $400? (Score:1)

    by Carik ( 205890 )
    When you can get a cell phone free with most service plans, and a good PDA for under $200, why is this worthwhile?

    Honestly, while I'm always in favour of new geek toys, this one holds no interest at all. Frankly, I'd be more interested in a lower cost version of something like the Edge or Deluxe (Yes, I know the deluxe is available for $100 if you get it refurbished... that doesn't change the fact that it's still $200 for the cheapest of the new Visors). As a college student, most of my money is going to textbooks and bills, not buying new cell-phone/PDAs.

    -Carik
    • right. cause they are really marketing this towards college students. good job on picking that one up sonny.

      They made this thing totally for the businessman, plain and simple. I work for a relatively small computer consulting company. All of our consultants are considering buying one of these just to make their lives a little more simple.

      They know the price is high for college students, pre-schoolers, and bums on the street. But this is not a product for them, its a product for proffesionals.

      SWGS
  • It dawned on me the other day while borrowing a friend's cell that really, cell phones are really just small wireless computers with limited features that are called phones in order to sell more of them.

  • Ugly (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Filarion ( 548689 )
    This thing is butt-ugly. I wish Apple would make one of those.
  • I love my Visor phone and the main advantage, and the reason I bought one was the components - if the Visor breaks - I just go out and buy another one. Same for the phone. With hopefully little downtime in between.

    If the Treo breaks I'm hosed for either a lot of $$ or time cause I'll have to send it somewhere for repairs. Sorry but I'll keep my old stuff.

  • Just too big for me (Score:3, Insightful)

    by D_Nice ( 18143 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:07AM (#2986485) Homepage
    I'm a big fan of combining technologies and making life easier as much as possible, but in this case I don't think this product would work for me. I've always had palms in the past and have always kept them in my briefcase or outside compartment of my laptop case. I've gotten to accustomed to carrying a small phone now (the motorolo v8160) to carry something as large and bulky as the treo. Bottom line, I don't wish to carry something the size of a palm in my pocket.

    Great phone for those that wear cargo pants.
    • This is the smallest palm available, by a long shot.

      If you take a look at the Treo website, they have a few size comparison pictures to help out (including one against a credit card where the Treo does pretty well).

      I have a Nokia 83xx phone right now, and the Treo looks to be a little wider (and have an external antenna) but is otherwise quite comparable in size.

      I don't use a palm often enough unless it's in my pocket. This lets me use a regular wallet again.

      Regards,
      Ross
  • On the contrary, I think the introduction of the Handspring Treo will increase by one the number of gadgets people carry around.
  • I think the Treo is a good idea, but the fact that it is GSM-only makes it of no value to me. One reason I have a cell phone is for emergencies where I may be stranded with a flat tire somewhere in rural New Hampshire. I won't take the risk that my GSM phone won't work, so I will only carry a phone that supports analog in addition to digital.
    • Whilst 270-280 million Americans and 27-28 million Canadians is certainly an economic force to be reckoned with, I think the over 600 million current GSM users around the world would seem pretty compelling as well.

  • Too little too late? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MrIcee ( 550834 )
    When Handspring announced their new cell/pda marriage I was very excited. I use a motorola cell phone combined with my Handspring Visor to access my remote SUN workstations when I'm out hiking or at the beach. Since the visor actually allows TELNET, etc... it can handle most of the tasks I need to do remotely (e.g., emergencies) nicely, without taking up a huge amount of room.

    The only problem I have with my cellphone/visor is that the cell phone, visor and it's cable... are bulky when taken all together.. not exactly what you want on the beach, or during a hike on 2000 ft. cliffs (not to mention that I've already lost the cable twice). I thought the new device would be great... all-in-one, etc.

    But I'm less and less impressed. First... they did not include the Handspring port - citing some bull about wanting to have two distinct product lines... this is a major down point for me because if I want to *replace* my visor, I can't without also losing all the modules I purchased. Secondly... other companies beat them to the punch and already offer cell phones married to full functioning PDA's.

    So as far as I can tell... too little, too late.

  • I like my Treo (Score:5, Informative)

    by dipfan ( 192591 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:19AM (#2986545) Homepage
    I've been using this for a couple of weeks, it's got GPRS (here in the UK). I like it for a couple of reasons: the obvious one is I don't have to drag around a phone and Palm Pilot anymore, and the other is that since it uses the Palm OS loading all my old PP stuff on it was so easy.

    Good points: ironically, the SMS facility is very well organised and makes it much easier to keep tabs on who sent what, and your replies. The keyboard is good too.

    Particularly good point: answering a call in real Star Trek fashion by flipping open the screen shield. Cool.

    Bad points: the sound quality when using the phone through the shield headset rather than the plug-in ear piece, not good. And the battery life is indeed not good, although it does have a good battery life indicator: a light starting at green and slowly fading to bright red.

    Particularly bad point: no cradle, making the recharging/hot synching less convenient.

    Otherwise, it's a good size, and feels robust. And (not that it really matters) it's got a "wow!" factor, but that's just a new gadget syndrome. Um, overall, a bit pricey I'd say: you know that in a year's time there'll be plenty of these at a better price.

    • Re:I like my Treo (Score:3, Informative)

      by Cato ( 8296 )
      SMS on a Palm is much nicer than a phone in any case, even Graffiti beats thumb-keying - I use the free GSMtool at present on a Palm + Ericsson T68 and it works well.

      Do you know how many GPRS slots you get with the version you have, up and down? Failing that, do you know what data rates you get?

      One key reason to get an integrated device is that the Palm to Phone link will always work - getting separate devices to work is a bit of a nightmare, even though I have IRDA working.
    • My beef with this all-in-one idea is that the phone technologies here in the US are still pretty bad. Most of the people I know get rid of their phones in less than 2 years. You'd be throwing away a $400 device in this case. I sure wish they could have put a springboard or CF slot in the back of the TREO design so different phone technologies could have been swapped in. I'd pay $50 for a phone w/service along with $300-$350 for the Treo(empty) PDA.

      Bolting them together eliminates choice of service at a reasonable price.

      A very nice design though, except for the fact it has no expansion/radio slot. IMHO

      LoB
      • GSM/GPRS should be a fairly safe bet for some time, though of course 3G is just around the corner so some obsolescence is inevitable.

        It would have been good to include Bluetooth instead of a Springboard slot - at least then you could network through to a different device, e.g. your laptop to get onto a wireless LAN. There may even be a market for wireless routers that talk Bluetooth on one side and CDMA/GSM/UMTS wireless on the other - that way you can decouple your user interface device (web pad, PDA, toaster) from the wireless standards.
  • I read some rumours (can't find the link right now) that the next generation of this device would include a color display. I sure hope this is true: it would usage of the video-displaying capabilities even more fun - not to mention the increase in coolness.

    I used to have a handheld with a color display though and frankly the battery life of that thing sucked. If they make a Treo with color display, I sure hope that battery life will still be acceptable (showing off to my collegues for 1 hour per battery-loading seems sufficient for me).

    • Today, getting color and good battery life isn't really possible. Especially with the screen size the Treo has.

      Until Organic LED displays make it, you get color and no real battery life unless you bolt a large battery on (ala iPaq).

      So you'll have to decide if you want to spend your money to show how cool you are or spend your money to get a useful/convenient product.

      LoB

  • Presumably being PalmOS based that means you can get ssh for it. However the keyboard doesn't look up to much and it doesn't look hi-res enough to do 80x24. I don't think this will replace the Nokia 9[12]10 for remote Unix administration, and to be honest that and checking Railtrack for alternate train times when the train companies fsck up *again* mid-journey are the only things I tend to use portable dial-up for.

  • If so, then I'll skip buying a new pocket PC and just go for this baby.

  • No DCS1800 (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blacksmith ( 42129 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:20AM (#2986559) Homepage
    Hmm. It's a bit strange - most dual band phones support 900/1800, but this one appears to be 900/1900. That cuts out quite a large proportion of European users. It makes no mention of data rates either, so I assume it doesn't support HSCSD. That limits it to 14.4 kbps, which is pretty restrictive for a "Communicator" device.

  • You must walk before you can fly (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:23AM (#2986569)
    This, like many innovations, is just another step. Handsprings are slightly more modular than other forms of PDAs, while still having the minimal power consumption associated with palm pilots.

    Many people, including myself, believe that the next frontier of technology is small, portable devices that communicate with each other wirelessly, though each device has a specialized function.

    In order to make that happen, we need to start with devices such as handhelds - which can be easily specialized through software, and which have readily available wireless capability.

    Its true that its "Just another handheld," similar to all of the other handhelds, but its more functional. Its not like another model car, which is exactly like the previous model, except that its "new and improved" (i.e. new and the current fashion); this is another piece of the puzzle.

    And it does matter that its slightly more functional. The advent of the 386 chipset allowed a whole new class of problems to be solvable that where previously too slow to do research - I know that this is the case for my field, which is computer vision. As time progresses, even more problems are being researched.

    I'm looking forward to using technology such as this -perhaps even this model - in the near future (when it becomes pretty inexpensive - perhaps two or three years from now) as a module for home automation - it would be just about perfect for the purpose.
  • Personally I would rather have:
    a color iPAQ with GSM-jacket or a palm-pilot with blue tooth and Ericssons T68 (color display, bluetooth aso).

    A the price is approx the same...

  • Yet another palm phone....So what? (Score:5, Informative)

    by bedmison ( 534357 ) <808@m[ ]c.vt.edu ['usi' in gap]> on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:26AM (#2986586)
    Palm-based phones have been out now for about 4 years now. I have a Kyocera smartPhone, which I really like, and after looking at the specs of the Treo, I can say I'm not feeling feature-envy of any kind.

    Treo is smaller...so what, the Kyocera is almost too small as it is. They also made the Treo smaller by using a smaller screen then the Kyocera, so enjoy your scrolling.

    No car kits from handspring...they are going to leave that to 3-rd parties, which means don't expect them for a while. Kyocera makes their own.

    Treo: no voice dialing
    Kyocera: voice dialling in the phone ( 99 names )

    Treo claims 2.5hrs talk/ 60 hours standby. This is about half the Kyocera's capacity.

    Treo says you may need to activate dial up access, and also get an ISP?!?! Both included in Kyocera service. And to make it worse, the Treo's modem is 9600 vs 14.4 in the Kyocera.

    The keyboard is not that interesting to me, because I have used a palm long enough to get proficent with the software keyboard and graphitti. Plus my fingers are too fat to use buttons that small with any degree of accuracy...:^)

    About the only think that is mildly amusing about this phone is that it is GSM, which doesn't help me where I live. I think I'll stay with my tried and true smartPhone.

    • You can get a version without the keyboard, but I suspect I'll get the keyboard one just to make email and SMSing easier, even though I've used Graffiti for some time now. I doubt if there's any more scrolling, as Palm-compatible screens are always 160x160 (or double in some cases) - more squinting though...

      I have voice dialling in my Ericsson phone and I never use it, but then being a Euroid living in LondonI don't drive as much as some people :)

      As for having to activate dialup and get an ISP - that's a feature of the service, not the phone. The 9600 bps connection may also be a service issue, it depends on the GSM network I think.

      GSM may not be useful where you live, but it works well around the rest of the world. I'll wait for the GPRS-enabled version (although one UK poster on this thread says he has been using that version for 2 weeks) so I can get always-on and about 40-50 Kbits/sec. Does anybody know how many GPRS slots the GPRS version has, up and down?

      Really it's horses for courses - if you prefer CDMA service for where you live/travel, go for the Kyocera (though I think Handspring have a deal with Qualcomm to do a CDMA product in the future). If you prefer GSM, go for the Treo.
      • Having "probed" the Handspring people over the last few weeks, I think the keyboard on the Treo is in the event they lose to Xerox. Handspring is PUSHING THE KEYBOARD over Graffiti in a major way. Even when someone says they prefer Graffiti, the Hanspring people push the keyboard version....

        Something is up. IMHO.

        LoB

  • Too bad... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by blunte ( 183182 )
    ...you can't USE the pda while you use the phone.

    "Oh yeah Jim, um, what's-his-name wanted me to tell you, uh, hangon a sec." *flip, beep, poke poke poke, scroll, read, fumble, flip* "Ok Jim, yeah it was so and so, and if I remember correctly he said blah blah blah."

    Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but how might you take notes, lookup information, or otherwise use the PDA part of your "phone" while you talk on it?
    • Use a handsfree kit.

      And you have the benefit of not microwaving your brain :-)
    • "Oh yeah Jim, um, what's-his-name wanted me to tell you, uh, hangon a sec." *flip, beep, poke poke poke, scroll, read, fumble, flip* "Ok Jim, yeah it was so and so, and if I remember correctly he said blah blah blah."

      ...actually, it would be more like,

      "Oh yeah Jim, um, what's-his-name" (taps speakerphone button, navigates to note as he continues speaking without interruption) "wanted me to tell you so and so, it was Bob. And he said... I'll email you the details as soon as we end the call."

      Now if they could fix that last part, that would be cool!
      • And he said... I'll email you the details as soon as we end the call.

        If I have to interact with other humans, I'm most productive when I'm at my office with my headset on, and my email and IM programs open. It's like having three channels open at once, and it's amazing how well it works. Any phone that would let me talk or email, but not both at the same time, would eventually be frustrating. Maybe not much and maybe not often, but frustrating anyway.

    • ...you can't USE the pda while you use the phone


      Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but how might you take notes, lookup information, or otherwise use the PDA part of your "phone" while you talk on it?


      By acivating the built-in speakerphone during the call and switching to another program while you're still talking.

    • Re:Too bad... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rbeattie ( 43187 )

      It's called a headset. It comes with it for free. ALSO, the Treo seems to have some sort of "personal speaker phone" capabilities which means that as you're using the phone you can hear your caller and continue talking to them.

      How about READING the freakin' article? It's not like I knew this before or had to search for it, it's in the second paragraph down.

      -Russ

  • iPod (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think for their next iPod, Apple should add a couple features:

    1. Cellphone that works with all the cell networks in the world.
    2. 802.11x or whatever that new superfast wireless standard is that works with 802.11b, v.92 modem, Gigabit ethernet, and the LCD backlight should be able to blink morse code.
    3. Military GPS accurate to 1"
    4. A keyboard and also hand recognition (but not graffiti crap, real hand recognition). And voice recognition.
    5. It's screen should be color and widescreen format so I can watch my cracked DVDs on it.
    6. It should run linux, but have virtual machines so it can also run Palm and Windows apps. Oh, and a gameboy advance emulator.
    7. The battery should last at least a week, preferably two.
    8. None of this SDMI crap. I can put on and take off anything. In fact, it should have a video and audio in, so I can take input straight from my DVD player into the device and share them with my friends.
    9. It should be the same size it is now, and still use firewire.
    10. Flash card, Smartmedia, multimedia card and PCMCIA slots.

    Oh, and I won't pay more than $150 for it.

    That'd be cool! ;-)

  • Revolutionary? Try retread. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The Japanese have had such devices for years, and as a bonus their devices aren't eyesores. Yes, they don't have the sheer organizing power of a Palm, but anybody who can actually use this thing to its full extent probably has a secretary already. Now, I'd like to say that the advantage of having a secretary is that he or she can double as a fling during the office XMAS party, but given the 60% obesity rate in America, it's more likely than not that your secretary will be a fatty in scrubs filling her keyboard with pork rind crumbs instead of a hotty in a miniskirt. And if you've never seen a cute male admin assistant in a mini, you've not been living, baybee!

    Oh, and until PDAs have good handwriting recognition software again, they can all go straight to the steaming pits of Hell. Or my crotch. Same diff.

  • Revolutionary??? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by markj02 ( 544487 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:28AM (#2986595)
    SprintPCS has a second generation device available, the Samsung SPH-I300 [sprintpcs.com]. Color display, virtual Grafitti, dual-mode, external connection for hooking up your laptop, full HTML browser, voice recognition, second LCD (for Caller ID), among other features. It's also pretty compact. They also still offer the Kyocera. The Treo isn't bad, it may be "always on-line", and maybe you want GSM for one reason or another, but it doesn't look "revolutionary" to me.
    • i have been using the I300 for a couple of months now. The thing is great. I have very few complaints. Sure, it could be smaller, but its way smaller than my Vx + phone was, and it still will fit in my front pocket if necessary.

      Great screen - its so bright, i made the mistake of opening it in a dark jazz club the other night and got the attention of the whole room.

      its the best phone i have used on the sprint network as far as reception and voice quality.

      by various benchmarks it is currently the fastest palm machine out there.

      for more info see samsung's page [samsungusa.com] or a great message board about the phone, including some nacent hacking projects [sphi300.com]

    • The Kyocera 2255 (on Sprint) allows you to jack in any computer. I like being able to carry the phone without lugging even the smallest computer everywhere. But for the times when I'd like a computer along ... what is currently the minimal (in terms of size and cost) unit that can take a reasonable-size folding keyboard and would be capable of running SSH sessions? Does anyone have their Linux PDA working through their Kyocera on Sprint?

      As any old hi-fi fan knows, "components are better."

      ____

  • This could change the world...
    Get real! Does it slice? Does it dice [numachi.com]?

  • I wouldn't buy one... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by joebp ( 528430 )
    I have a deep-seated problem with buying a single thing which has many, normally discrete, functions. Why?

    They tend to do everything they do pretty badly. For example: Nokia 5550 (Phone and MP3 player. MP3 player sucks, and phone sucks too), midi/mini HIFI systems (sound generally sucks compared to a nice seperates system), Webmin (sucks compared to a set of targetted, specific config tools), etc etc etc.

    You get the idea.

    Also, in my humble experience, I've found a worrying number of 'combined' gadgets such as this to fail in single areas -- and be almost impossible to fix due to their advanced miniturisation.

    So... Nice gadget, but I'll stick with discrete tools -- my Sony Vaio C1, Nokia 7110 and Handspring Visor Edge do their specific jobs excellently.

    • Sure, multi-function tools might not do the job as well as discrete ones. But it makes me laugh to see someone kvetching about them who's not only got a computer - a multi-function tool if there ever was one - but a computer with a camera built into it!



      Sure, mini-stereos suck compared to a decent component system. They also cost about... what, as much as one, maybe two pieces of that system, tops?



      Personally, I also will not buy a Treo - until they tell me that in addition to being a cell phone and a PDA, it can play MP3's. I've been waiting for a couple years for all three functions to be consolidated in a base unit without add-ons. Give me stereo headphones with a mike on the cord for the mp3 playback, and a device smart enough to pause the mp3's when a call comes in, and I'm happy.



      -Dan

  • Since this is a GSM phone, Verizon isn't supporting it. Only AT&T, MCI, VoiceStream, Cingular, to name a few national carriers.

    Maybe those other carriers work for you, but for those of us who live in the northeast - especially around new york, the other carriers can;t live up to Verizon's service level.

    Granted, I'm no Verizon-fan by any means - I'd drop them in a second if I could, but unfortunately that's the only carrier up here (NY Metro Area) that is worth anything.

  • Other cell+PDA combos (Score:3, Interesting)

    by I am Jack's username ( 528712 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @10:36AM (#2986635)
    Nokia 9210 [nokia.com] (expensive), Ericsson R380e [sonyericssonmobile.com] (too low tech?), Motorola Accompli A6188 [cellular.co.za] and A008 [itweb.co.za].

    More?

    • DO NOT buy an R380 - about as useful as a lump of plastic. Gives you the impression that they never actually bothered beata testing it (my faith in Symbian has been severely knocked by this phone).

      I'm using the Motorola 008 now, and it is actually quite useful, if a little klunky. Though the Treo does have the advantage of running PalmOS (MDIP JAVA support just doesn't quite cut the mustard IMHO).

      j.


    • Nokia 7650 [nokia.com].

      Super nifty, but lacks key input features.

      Nokia - disconnecting people


  • A system for reading e-mail needs to be "always on" to use a phrase from the competition (RIM). As far as I can tell with Treo if you are waiting for an e-mail you would have press receive every five minutes until the e-mail arrived.

  • ALMOST there... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Note to Handspring (and whomever else):

    Add voice recognition capability!

    How many people have phones now that you can add voice tags to people's numbers? This should actually be rather easy to implement in the Treo, I'd imagine. (I didn't see it explicitly stated in the review.) Imagine just saying someone's name, and their business card comes up and it asks you if you want to dial their number. Sounds like a winning deal to me.

    Other than that, add some Bluetooth or 802.11b capability in there. Then I can use this as an uplink for my laptop. Or I can beam business cards with RF instead of IR. Or imagine being able to zap someone your business card through SMS. That's another cool feature.

    These devices are almost there. We're almost to convergence, and I think I'll wait a generation or two and take another serious look at it.

  • ... it costs an additional $20/month. I still think the Motorola T193 with iStream is a better choice. Phone=$50, Basic Plan+GPRS=$23/month, Better Plan=$30/month (see here [voicestream.com])
  • I think this phone/PDA is a real step in the right direction of alleviating the clutter of many gadgets. It's a bit price, but hey it's new. This unit coupled with Nextel's direct connect feature would be great. That is if Nextel or Motorola figures out how to get direct connect to work outside of users local calling areas.
  • one of the reasons windows ce handhelds have suppousedly been doing better is because of their internet connectivity... maybe this, along with the palm m705 will level the playing field?
    but, as for the palm m705... it actually has a graffiti pad, and an antenna that seems like it would have a longer life span. i think i'll just stick with that one!
  • I have still sitting on my desk this device from Qualicomm that is the exact same thing. yes it was neat. until you try and actually use it. Battery life is crap. if you like to use your cllphone more than once a day for only a 30 second call you have to drop it on the charger at least 3-5 times a day. taking notes during a phone conversation REQUIRES the headset. and connectivity via the web is neat-o but expensive and slow.

    Nice try Handspring, but qualicomm learned the hard way that unless you can give major advantages that outweigh the horrible design flaws it will die a nasty ugly death.
  • The Treo is an evolutionary improvement over previous cellphone and pda combination devices. Sure, it's smaller, and has nifty things like jogdial, but 2 things kill it.

    1. It's still to big. Having handled one in person (I live in singapore and it's been out for half a month or so now) it's still too big. It hasn't reached that crtical *lack* of mass that'll make it replace my tiny Nokia phone as yet.

    2. No GPRS.
  • all (well most) modern cell phones have integrated aerial.
    Is it here only to tear pockets, or to be geeky?
    or perhaps is it the extractible pen?

  • My favorite is still... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gvonk ( 107719 ) <slashdot@NOsPAm.garrettvonk.com> on Monday February 11, 2002 @12:13PM (#2987200) Homepage
    The Nokia 7650 [nokia.com]. It is so so sweeeeet. I wish we had it in the US.


  • ...is not anything very advanced, but it has a set of features that I cannot find combined in a single PDA. It has:

    • PalmOS
    • A color, 24-bit, at least 320x240, nice looking screen
    • A compactflash, type 1 or 2, slot

    The closest to what I want is the Handera (ex TRG) PDA, that has the compact flash slot, but it has no color screen. The Clie and Palm use those Memory Stick and SD/MMC respectively. And then, of course, there are the Casios and Compaqs who don't have PalmOS. Why can't they build such a simple handheld? In the meantime, I will wait to replace my old Palm III.
    • Based on how much they want for the Handera models that are not color -- I cringe to think of how much a color one would cost (if it were available)...How long until people realize that CF has pretty much wrapped up the "standards WAR" for flash cards -- instead we still see even more and more alternatives....MMC, Smart Media, Sony Stick thingies.....Yet none of them can eclipse 128 Megs --- (CF has had 256 Meg+ for a long time now....)

  • why did they cripple it? (Score:3, Informative)

    by jchristopher ( 198929 ) on Monday February 11, 2002 @01:36PM (#2987654)
    I am SO disappointed in Handspring/Cingular.

    After waiting quite a while for the Treo to come out, they finally announced they are avaialble, so I run over to the site, put in my zip (Los Angeles), and start the process where they let you pick a plan and what area you are in.

    Then I saw something that made me want to cry: "Cingular Data (required for web and email access) $4.95/mo. plus 15/minute"

    I can't believe this thing is not setup to use Cingular's internal network for web browsing. (which costs you $5 a month, plus airtime (basically, 'free' on nights and weekends). Instead, they are using the old Cingular data-connect, which is $4.95 and $0.15 A MINUTE. You can't use your included minutes, it's $0.15 a minute, always.

    Not only that, but you have to have an ISP to make that data call into! If you use a cable modem or DSL, you'll have to pay a 3rd party ISP like Earthlink $19.95 a month just to use your data features.

    Cingular has been setup, and has been selling phones that use their own 'wireless web' network for at least a year now. This is so sad.

    Paying by the minute for data when you have a bucket of free minutes, as well as the requirement that you have a 3rd party ISP, is simply not acceptable in this day and age when other providers (Sprint, Verizon, Voicestream) are giving it away.

    Incredibly dumb.

  • Analog support (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cameldrv ( 53081 )
    I don't understand how Handspring expects to sell too many of these with single-mode GSM. GSM only may be fine in Europe where everything is GSM, but in the USA, if you travel, you need to be able to fall back to Analog. A great part of the utility of having a mobile phone is being able to use it while travelling, particularly in a semi-remote area. You would have to buy another phone for backup with the Treo. It's built in on the Kyocera or Samsung phones.
  • Japanese cell phones [nokia.co.jp] still beat the living crap out of the most expensive American cell phone. This one here has a digital camera in it. I refuse to buy a cell phone, PDA, digital camera, or portable mp3 player, until they are all united into 1 cell phone sized device at an affordable price. The technology exists for something like this to exist right now. No company is doing it though. I wonder why?
  • If Treo is replacing Visor and whatnot, what will people recommend for those of us who want a really cheap, barebones PDA? The Visor Deluxe is available now for $100 used, and the m100 is $100, but are there any other PDAs that are making it into the $150 and below price range?

    I, for one, am considering a PDA to work as a simple organizer. Phone numbers, addresses, maybe some information about local take-out and delivery restaurants. Is everyone aiming for the high-end PDA market? When will we see the "Celeron" of PDAs gain more improvements?

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