Comparing the DVRs? 335
zonker asks: "We are
getting hooked up with Dish
Network Satellite TV this weekend and opted to go with one of
their PVR
(personal video recorder) plans. I started wondering if anyone has
done any technical reviews or comparisons of the video quality (not
just features) of the various digital video recorders out there (TiVo, DishPVR,
ReplayTV, etc.). I am curious
mostly about recorded video quality compared to the source video.
All of them make claims to have various recording 'speeds' like
VCR's. VCR's analog output is predictable (fuzzy recording with bits
of static here and there, worse when signal quality is bad).
However digital recorders have varying levels of pixelization. I was
curious which ones fared the best and if anyone has comments on
either systems?"
Dishnetwork, Linux and Satellite? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why isn't there more open support for this? You'd think that Dishnetwork would promote this type of thing.
It depends (Score:5, Interesting)
orang55 (Score:5, Interesting)
Non-intergrated/2 boxes MPEG2 Satelitte Stream -> VBR Decoded to FBR -> downconverted to analog output -> cable to pvr, signal loss, interference, etc -> MPEG2 Vbr Conversion -> MPEG2 Decoding -> Out to TV
Intergrated box MPEG2 Satelitte Stream -> VBR already encoded, data alreay MPEG2 compressed, saved directly to disk, video remains unedited and uncompressed. -> Downconversion to analog -> Out to TV
Rumor has it that next month, EchoStar (parent company of DishNetwork) will release a HD PVR. Of course, that would require a huge drive, but there is also news that Dish ordered a slew of 120gb drives from a large storage sompany. So, more room for plain-ol broadcasts, which dont take up nearly as much room. The box has been dubbed the DishPVR 721. Oh yeah, it runs linux.
More news and stuff on the Echostar Knowledge Base [swiki.net]. There's lots of stuff on the AVSFORUM [avsforum.com] dish network board with other info.
You may want the data more than you think (Score:5, Interesting)
But trust me, try out a Tivo or similar box with the listing data. It really is a whole different beast from a simple hard disk recorder that can record shows at set times. Even though you can fully comprehend what all the features do, you won't really understand how it changes your watching of TV until you try it for a while.
I mean, I'm very up on the technology, and in many ways I feel that even before I got a box I knew better what features they were missing, but even so, there are elements you won't indentify until you sit down and use it.
With the Tivo, if you get an older box (not a new one, you need to get one of old inventory or used) you can cancel the monthly service and use it for timed recording.
And even though the data is overpriced at $9.95 (it's not really overpriced, it's just that you are paying for software upgrades and part of the box in there, but it seems like you are paying for listings) the change is remarkable.
It's not just a better UI where you browse both upcoming, live and recorded programs by name and category. It's not just the way it adjusts when programs change channel or timeslot. Not just how it records only the new shows and not the reruns, or lets you see all the different times the same show is on. And it's not just the fact that when the machine has nothing to do, it records shows that match your other tastes and puts them in spare disk space.
The key is you think about TV differently. There is an asynch pile of stuff coming in and you watch it in any order you like, at any time you like. You never watch the live TV again. Almost never, at least. The pausing live TV is a red herring feature to bring in new users, it turns out to be not useful because you don't watch live tv.
it doesn't matter how many hours you get... (Score:2, Interesting)
follow the (idiot-proof) instructions outlined here [newreleasesvideo.com]
Tivo capture resolution (Score:4, Interesting)
This may not seem like much of a problem considering that NTSC broadcast maxxes out around 440 pixels. However at 352x480 the mpeg macroblocks are quite large, and any macroblock artifacts will be quite noticeable.
The "higher quality" capture options on Tivo only adjust the bitrate given to the mpeg, but the video resolution and audio rate remain the same.
It's a shame Tivo doesn't use higher resolutions for higher quality modes.
Home Brewed? (Score:1, Interesting)
Slim, black desktop cases are hard to find, but are out there. "Micro-Flex" type ATX motherboards help matters.
Anybody else working on something like this?
721 != HDTV (Score:2, Interesting)
Umm, guys? (Score:4, Interesting)
Second, the Tivo's a neat little toy. A couple of guys brought theirs in to our last LUG meeting- one already modded, one to mod in front of us. The ethernet card was a nice touch, as was having a bash prompt. Backing up the new box and dropping the big Maxtor in was a breeze, but he didn't want the network connection- it overrides the modem and he only has a phone jack in his living room.
I was impressed with how his viewing habits have changed, and I was impressed with the picture quality. It looked like crap- recorded on the lowest setting, getting bumped over to a laptop and shot through a projector to the wall about 10 feet away, making a nice, big image. If it looked like that on a TV I'd have laughed, but this was fine.
Anyway, www.9thtee.com is a great place for the hardware. They come highly recommended. I'll be damned if I buy a subscription box that's fscking crippleware, though.
Rolled My Own (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought a Hauppauge WIN-TV PVR (PCI) card for video capture. It has a hardware MPEG-2 encoder with many settings for quality from 2mb/sec to the ridiculously high 12mb/sec with the option of constant or variable bitrate. After testing I settled on 4mbit/sec VBR which looks great - sometimes it's easy to forget I'm not watching a live broadcast. Importantly it also has a "pause" feature just like a commercial PVR which is great for dealing with the amount of calls I get from clients at all hours. Output to the TV is via S-VHS from an old GeForce 1 card that has TV-out built in. initially I wanted to use the MPEG decoder card from my DVD kit for output but after testing, the output from the geforce is so close in quality I just use it, plus then I get to use the PC even while it's recording (the hardware encoder means no dropped frames ever). The box is just a celeron 900 with a half gig of ram running win2k - there is a linux driver available for the Hauppauge on sourceforge but the PC is part of my render farm (I'm a 3D animator by trade) and 3dsmax only runs on windows (for now).
The software that ships with the Hauppauge is, well, shitty. It works fine but the interface sucks, especially when you've used showshifter (www.showshifter.com) though from reading showshifter's forums apparently it will soon support the WintTV PVR board. In the meantime I have simply "frontended" the Hauppage software using scripting in Automate from Unisyn. I've bound all the major features to the cute rubber buttons on the internet keyboard on my coffee table and I've even been able to do things like have the scroll-lock light flash when recording (for when we're not watching TV via the PC). For scheduling I go to the Aussie TV guide at sofcom.com.au to pick out my weeks viewing - the lounge box has winvnc on it so I can program it from my office or even start recording if I see something good and don't have time to run out to the lounge. I use PowerDVD for mpeg playback, mainly cause you can fast forward and rewind using the scroll wheel on the mouse - trez chic
For the future I just ordered a Redrat2 IR controller from www.redrat.co.uk to give the box control over my satellite decoder, and I plan to add functionality like being able to email the box to program it etc. I also use the box as our stereo to play MP3's and I've recently begun ripping (my own!!) most watched DVDs to my server's 160 gb logical drive using smartripper to prevent my favourite DVDs getting scratched from constant use. I don't re-encode, just copy the VOB files and re-name them as
Semi-offtopic (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, what I've always thought would be a cool feature is an option for slightly faster video playback - maybe around 10 percent. That would trim 6 minutes off of every hour of programming. It surely wouldn't be very hard for TiVo (et al) to implement. And it probably wouldn't even be that noticable.
Are you listening TiVo?
Re:Need a FREE version (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Rolled My Own (Score:1, Interesting)
But it seems they are only distributing it through their website and www.cdw.com. Odd.
Anyway it works really well, and at 99$ AND no monthly fees its the cheapest PVR there is. Asside from just using a TV tuner card and a copy of PowerVCR2 from Cyberlink, which is shitty because you have to use your CPU to do the mpeg work so you cant do much else.
Re:You may want the data more than you think (Score:2, Interesting)
my question is where is this place now? Is anybody doing this?
I know about tvguide.com or tv.yahoo.com, but as you say, and another poster points out, they wouldn't like it (need ads) and the format probably changes constantly. This is probably what I would resort to if I started writing this thing now.
(you know, it's a sad state of affairs when I have essentially no expectation of somebody relying on "standard copyright")
DVB and VDR: PVR for Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.linuxtv.org
http://www.cadsoft.de/people/kls/vdr/
It works perfectly here in germany. DVB is Digital Video Broadcasting (MPEG2) transmitted by satellite, kabel and terrestrial VDR is a PVR running under Linux usinf a DVB card from Technotrend (Hauppauge, Siemens, ...)
VDR can also play: DVD, SVCD, MP3, MPEG, DIVX
Bye.
(Hihi... my first /. post)
Building a PVR in the UK... (Score:2, Interesting)
The software is a different matter.
For me, OS wise, I'd stick onWin98Lite [98lite.net] Win2k version or the XP version when it comes out.
But channel wise, it's not as straightforward. To UK users I'd suggest using the amazingly excellent Digiguide [digiguide.com] which is an online TV Guide with a staggering amount of personal tweaks and doohickeys and has plug ins that allow it to connect directly to the also excellent Snapstream [snapstream.com].
Digiguide is £4.99 a year - worth it even if you don't build a PVR and Snapstream is $49.99 (about £34) from their website.