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Handhelds Hardware

Toshiba Pocket PC e570 Review 107

Posted by timothy
from the needful-things dept.
msolnik writes: "PocketNow has a review of the new Toshiba Pocket PC e570. With an integrated CompactFlash Type I/II, Secure Digital (SD) slot, a 206Mhz StrongArm, and upto 64MB of ram the Toshiba is going to give the IPAQ a run for its money. Just FYI with some slight modifications the Handhelds.org IPAQ Linux distro should run just fine on the Toshiba."
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Toshiba Pocket PC e570 Review

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Another PDA?

    Uh, is this only newsworthy, cause the submitted said "it might be able to carry a linux distro"?

    In that case, my toilet may carry a linux distro. Is that news?

    Must be a slow news day....
  • I don't see any mention of this on their official site. Anyone have a link to the data sheets?
    • I don't see any mention of this on their official site. Anyone have a link to the data sheets?

      http://www.csd.toshiba.com/pda/pda_home.html [toshiba.com]. There you have 7 seconds to find it!

      • I really wish sites stopped using PDFs to present basic data that can be represented just fine using HTML & CSS. Jesus it's irritating having a bulky, often not working, not exiting properly instance of AcroRd32.exe just to look at some god damn specs. STOP USING PDFs FOR BASIC BLOODY INFO!

        • testify, i never understood the point of pdfs. They are great for sending a document that needs to be printed. but for stuff that is going to be read on screen, what a shitty interface. the entire window moves and it doesnt have that feel of lines and pages.
        • by FatRatBastard (7583)
          STOP USING PDFs FOR BASIC BLOODY INFO!

          My guess is that they simply PDF their Word (or whatever dead tree creating document proc'r of choice is) Marketing Spec sheet.

          What is needed is something akin to Distiller / PDFPrint that prints both the bare HTML along with the style sheet. Anyone know of such a beast?
          • Yup totally agree, and it really is lazy of them. If they offer up their PDF they should offer it as an option rather than the only choice for specific information. However nonetheless PDFs are coming close to being unnecessary (though they were a required stopgap in the interim) with a CSS2/HTML combo.

      • Awesome, thanks =) I was actually looking for http://www.csd.toshiba.com/pda/pdf/FinalPDAbrochur e.pdf

        .7" thick seems like it might be a bit much personally... I have a uniden unipro that's about .6, and that seems a little too thick even. Ahh well. This seems like a nice little device. ;D
  • Geez, expensive, heavy and big. I already have a desktop PC.

    I'll stick with my Handspring for now thanks. (Cheap, light, and small.)
    • Huh?

      According to the article: The e570 is one of the smallest devices on the market; its only bulge appears in its thickness because of the two slots. Both a lightweight and a small guy.

      It's about the same weight and height as iPAQ.

      • Handspring (I have an older model that barely fits in my shirt pocket):

        4.7 ht, 3.1 width, .4depth.

        iPaq:

        5.11 ht, 3.28 width, .62 depth

        The differences seem small on paper, but not when you are trying to lug a PDA around everywhere whithout having to think about it.

        bulge appears in its thickness because of the two slots

        Ouch. This is a big deal. We are not talking about a laptop here. How many PCIA slots would be okay for your watch? A PDA should be just as convenient.

        • Handspring (I have an older model that barely fits in my shirt pocket):

          First off, as attractive as that must be to have a friggin PDA hanging out of your shirt pocket, I think most people put them in their pants pocket or even a backpack.

          Second, I have an iPaq and I've never had any problem "lugging" the extra .41" height around. It's not like you're talking about 4 inches. But then again, I have no idea who *needs* 2 slots in the PDA, plus a SD slot. Seems a little like overkill.
          • And a pocket protector is stylish?

            PDA's are not about looking good. They are about having the info you need when you need it. Like having a watch on your wrist gives you the time when you want it without hassle.

            Like I said, my Handspring is already almost too big. I'm sure in a few years I'll look at it and wonder how I ever put up up with it.
          • I recently purchased an iPaq (monochrome) and am currently looking to get rid of it, simply because it is alot more cumbursome than my Palm 3x was. Unfortunatly, the iPaq stats do not include the carrying case, which makes it much harder to carry in a pants pocket.

            Not to mention, after looking at the handhelds.org instructions, I wasn't too confident of my ability to install linux on it and it to remain usable.
          • What do you wear, cargo pants?

            I wear jeans all the time, and a Palm V with a hard case fits really well in my pocket along with a set of keys. The case is scratched beyond belief, but the Palm V is fine - anything larger would not work. I know that for sure as I used to have an older Palm Pilot (one of the first ones), and you really couldn't carry it in your pocket. The old Palm was just a novelty, the Palm V I use every day.
          • Actually, I've been wanting the two CF slot sleeve for my iPaq. Mostly because I use it like a very light-weight laptop: I do a lot of word processing, some internet surfing, a bit of exceling. Whatever I need on the road. Thus i have a large flash card, and a CF ethernet card.

            All in all, it *definitely* serves my needs. Other experiences may vary. :)
            • Actually, I've been wanting the two CF slot sleeve for my iPaq. Mostly because I use it like a very light-weight laptop:

              But you're not going to be carrying all that around in your pocket, right? It seems a bit much to have *all* the time. That's why I like the iPaq so much--you can just add on what you need when you need it, and take the smaller unit most other places.
              • That's precisely why I have an iPaq, actually. You wouldn't believe the number of people who, when seeing my setup, wonder why I don'tj ust buy a laptop. In response, I usually take down the gear, put everything but my iPaq in my backpack and then stick the iPaq into my pocket. This usually illustrates my point. VA
    • The e570 is one of the smallest devices on the market; its only bulge appears in its thickness because of the two slots. Both a lightweight and a small guy.

      Try again genius. Maybe next time by READING the article, instead of glancing at the pictures and making a lame first post attempt.

      • One of the smallest pocketPC devices, not even close when compared to Palm devices. Do some research dude.
      • It really is too big, and the reason is the
        inclusion of the USELESS SD "secure media" slot.
        Sorry, any palm device with useless mechanical parts
        is too big.
  • by msolnik (536110) on Monday November 26, 2001 @02:05PM (#2614284) Homepage
    The e570s Official Homepage is The e570s Official Homepage [toshiba.com]. They have features, specs, videos, and accessories on there.
  • How will quake [slashdot.org] run on this one?

    Hopefully, no more memory issues with now 64 MB RAM


    =)

  • Linux on the e570 (Score:2, Informative)

    by Walter Bell (535520)
    One of my friends has an e570 and he has been running Linux on it for a few days. He told me he has had a mixed experience with it:

    • He has not been able to get it to use the CompactFlash slot, but he said there is a kernel patch that addresses the issue (which he hasn't had time to test yet)
    • Support for power management on these devices is quite a bit different from standard PCs, and is a bit quirky.
    • The StrongArm chip is blazingly fast, and the system is considerably more responsive with Linux on it.
    • He tried NetBSD on it a few days back, but wasn't able to get GGI to work properly.
    • His next big project is to get ext3 or JFS running on it, to avoid corrupting flash memory cards.


    ~wally
    • If you need a journaling filesystem on your handheld, you have problems.

      I have had WinCE devices and Palm Devices since basically 1.0 days, and NONE have ever had "corrupted flash memory cards" unless i stuck the thing through a high powered xray machine on one of my hundreds of flights i have taken.

      "Considerably more responsive with linux on it"..

      Strange, i can watch movies, play mp3's, play doom, and tons of other things on my Compaq running CE 3.0 (as well as surf the net, check email, view appointments, view docs, record memos and voice notes) and my unit "seems considerably more responsive" then i have ever seen linux run on these.

      oh well, to each there own.
      • Actually, there's a filesystem designed for this very application. It's called JFFS, or Journaling Flash Filesystem. The original development for the filesystem was done by Axis Communications [axis.com], but it has since migrated to the kernel proper under the term JFFS2. You can probably follow discussions regarding this filesystem and the kernel API at the Memory Technology Devices [infradead.org] site. Check out the mailing list archives and/or subscribe to linux-mtd from the aforementioned site.
    • Excuse me, while I take this entire post with a grain of salt. First of all, this is a second-hand account with vague, unsubstantied points comments written as fact.

      A link or some kind of evidence for these points would be nice. Why wasn't GGI working properly? How is power management quirky?

      It is highly irresponsible of moderators to have this at +5, and having some poor slashdolt taking this post at "Walter"'s word.

  • maybe slashdot should mirror the pages, or something as they servers seem to crash>

    "There Has Been a Script Error
    Error Message Couldn\'t connect to database: Too many connections
    Script Location /home/httpd/pocketnow.com/htdocs/cgi-bin/directory /content.cgi
    Perl Version 5.006"
  • by Anonymous Coward
    .. that supposedly advocates open-source, Slashdot runs a surprising number of stories supporting Microsoft's platform domination. CmdrTaco drools over an X-BOX and Timothy wants his PocketPC. MS has the potential to monopolize the PDA and console market -- the essential question is how the thing comes out of the factory, and the more power you give to Microsoft, the less likely it becomes that it will ever be anything but Windows. They will just use the same OEM-type licensing that they're using everywhere.

    Face it, it's far easier to break MS' monopoly if you have several players. If Microsoft becomes so powerful that it controls everyone else except for a few geeks who are happy that they can run Linux on their new toys, we have lost.

  • What do you want with a computer with a tiny display and low performance ?
    Keeping adresses etc. ?
    Science has a better answer for this and it's called notebook (the paper ones).
    Playing games ?
    With this display you really can't go any further then gameboy style one. I don't see anyone using them for Quake or DOOM.

    I suppose these thing have the same right to exist like nosehair cutters, electrical earwax removers etc.
    • "low performance" it has a 206MHz processor and 64MB of memory, that's not low performance, that's a high end system from 5 years ago in the palm of your hand.

      "I don't see anyone using them for Quake or DOOM."
      id [slashdot.org] has ported Quake.
    • I don't see anyone using them for Quake or DOOM.


      You haven't looked hard enough!

      Download Quake, Doom, a flight sim, and a NES emulator here:
      www.pocketpcpocket.com [pocketpcpocket.com].

      thenerd.
    • What do you want with a computer with a tiny display and low performance ?

      Every day I throw away a pile of old papers and magazines. Even though it gets recycled I find it a waste. So, when the handhelds get cheap enough, I will by one to read from it. (you can not bring a laptop everywhere)

      I suppose these thing have the same right to exist like nosehair cutters, electrical earwax removers etc.

      Eehmmm. Actually I got an electrical nosehair cutter. Perhaps that explains everything. ;-)
    • Well I'm using it to learn Kanji during my 1.5 hours stuck on the Metro and bus each workday. One PDA replaces a notebook and Kanji reference guide (the latter tend to be quite large and heavy). KingKanji for the IPAQ will even show me stroke order. A pad of paper can't do that. And since I have to stand most of the time, a PDA and stylus are a lot easier to juggle.

      Tig
    • >Playing games ?
      >With this display you really can't go any
      >further then gameboy style one. I don't see
      >anyone using them for Quake or DOOM.

      For many, gameboy style games are vastly superior to any Quake/Doom incarnations.
    • You have your right to be anti-technology if you don't like any of the palm sized devices.

      I for one, find keeping addresses on a palm more convenient than on the "notebook (the paper ones)".

      I'll never again use the "notebook (the paper one)" to "keep address etc."

      Of course you have the right to not like them - the world is divided among different opinions...

      However, I think modding the parent as "insightful" is quite a stretch of reality.
    • How did this get moderated as insightful?
    • Personally, I sync up my iPaq with the BBC news pages, the Guardian Online, and a collection of other sites, off the Internet overnight, and can then browse them on the way to work in the morning on the bus. I'd like to see you do that with a paper notepad. (OK you could print out the entire site every morning, but that seems a bit wasteful and bulky).

      Plus, I have a collection of games (chess, patience etc) to play whenever I feel like it. And a few e-books. Yes, I could carry a book, and a gameboy, and a diary, but that's starting to get a bit bulky now as well.

      Plus it's easier to back up all of your addresses/appointments with a PDA than with a notebook (I've lost my notebooks more than once), and paper tends to be pretty useless at sounding an alarm to remind you of that meeting that you're meant to be at.

      I know plenty of people who don't think that they would be any better off with a PDA than with a notebook, and many of them are probably right. But just because you can't think of any use for them doesn't mean that other people can't.
  • I never pay attention to the pictures next to the headlines, except when it has to do with a new palmtop device. Then I always look at the picture and momentarily think to myself "What the hell? That looks just like a palm III."
  • NTSC out? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by drenehtsral (29789) on Monday November 26, 2001 @02:25PM (#2614399) Homepage
    What i'd really like is an NTSC video out on one of these buggers, 'cause that'd make it a perfect wearable (not to mention a really cool portable on-the-spot presentation machine. Just imagine, plug into the projector and run, no hassle).
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Q: Is it just me, or is every (non-Palm) PDA on the market sporting these specs?

    A: Well you see John Spartan, after the great PDA wars of the early 21st century, there was only one chip manufacturer left. The market is much happier this way.

    Q: Hey, couldn't one of these vendors at least ship with Linux preinstalled? (Never mind the new Sharp SL5000)

    A: Oh no John Spartan! Using Linux means that you must be able to think, and thinking bad. Hence Linux is illegal.

    Q: Um, what are these 3 csh's for?

    P.S.: I would've sworn that the new PocketPC OS would've driven everyone to a faster CPU. Is MS breaking their new OS == hardware upgrade pattern?
  • by weave (48069) on Monday November 26, 2001 @02:51PM (#2614636) Journal
    I'd like to know from whose perspective the "security" part of this SD card is to benefit. I have a feeling it's not for me and my data...

    What does it get me that a plain ole CF card would not give me?

    • The SD cards are significantly smaller than the CF cards. One would assume that being newer technology they also consume less power.
    • Memory expansion, as the CF slot gets filled with the wireless card Du Jour.
    • The security part has rather little use to anyone. The secure [sdcard.org] digital people [sandisk.com] claim that it uses an encryption system similar to that used in DVDs for content protection. Take that for what it's worth.

      The advantage to this kind of slot is that it also reads Multi Media Cards [sandisk.com] which are pretty much like a 1/4 size version of Smart Media Cards and don't have any "content protection" schemes involved. The gain here is that you can stick a MMC in the SD slot and have a bunch of extra storage space for your MP3s and maps and stuff and still have the CF slot open for a modem or network adapter without the extra bulk of a second CF slot.

    • I had a similar queston... From the 'secure digital [sdcard.org]' site....
      . . . . This security technology has been designed to comply with current and future
      Secure Digital Music Initiative (SDMI) portable device requirements, making it an excellent medium for the distribution of digital content, including digital music.
      In other words, you'll be unable to copy certain types of data... This 'security' probably has little, if anything, to do with consumer freedom.
  • by morbid (4258)
    It looks like ARM has all but sewn up the PDA market, just like x86 became the defacto standard for PC's. Will the market stagnate now? Where is the competition? Everyone has (or plans to have) a 206MHz StrongARM in their PDA. Wouldn't it be nice if someone else came along with something a bit better now and made things interesting?
    • by tercero (529131)
      Hitachi makes a better processor called the SuperH. But why no one is using it is beyond me.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Casio was using the SH3 in their Cassiopeia, but now that they are out of the market, there won't be any more SH3-based Pocket PC devices (thank god).

        The SH4 is definitely a nice processor but slower than the SA1100. Now go get yourself an XScale or SH5 (wowee) and you'll have a better chip. Unfortunately, those aren't on the market yet.
      • I believe that the Dreamcast uses that processor.
  • Apparently, the device doesn't recognize diagonals [pocketgamer.org] on the game pad. This makes it almost completely useless as a gaming device.

    This issue seems even more annoying than the button problems on the iPaq, but hopefully Toshiba can fix with a software patch, or at least in future hardware revisions

    • I don't understand how they can sell a product like that?

      I mean for even an app requiring somewhat of a cursor mouse feel diagonals are pretty important..

      and just being able to play a game on the road is a lifesaver for any traveling veterans...

      as who else spends 500 bucks on these things!

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