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Hardware

Tiger MP Dual-Processor Motherboard 232

Posted by michael from the double-the-pleasure dept.
CtrlPhreak writes: "Anandtech has posted a review of an affordable AMD 760 based motherboard, the Tyan Tiger MP. It's basically the Tyan Thunder K7 without all the integration. For $220, it's a great deal. It has the exact same performance as the Thunder, and it is tested to run fine with those cheap and fast 1ghz durons. They say Tyan is putting out this board to compete with other offerings of a cheap 760 platform, we can only hope."
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Tiger MP Dual-Processor Motherboard More

Tiger MP Dual-Processor Motherboard

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  • Damn... $220 for a motherboard? what happened to sub $100 motherboards? geeze, i've been buying DLL too long i guess.

    I was hoping to build an AMD system for $400 or less... but spending $220 on a motherboard ain't gonna get me there..

  • Don't get this one (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:36PM (#2359022)
    The Tiger MP is a sweet mobo. However, AMD will be coming out with a new MP chipset called the 760MPX. The MPX has two distinct improvements. First, registered DDR RAM will not be necessary. Any old DDR RAM will do. Secondly, the MPX will support 66Mhz 64-bit PCI slots.
    • wait... the Tyan Thunder can support the 66mhz 64bit PCI already. and the Tiger can support normal old DDR (though only 2)

      Do you guys even read the articles?
      • No it can't. Read the original AnandTech article. The Thunder has 5 slots that are 64 bit x 33 Mhz. The main problem with using 66 Mhz slots is that they're not backwards compatible - in fact, they don't even have the same plastic recesses so you can't fit a 33 into a 66 slot.
      • wait... the Tyan Thunder can support the 66mhz 64bit PCI already.
        Bzzt...it does support 64-bit PCI, but not at 66 MHz. The 760MP doesn't support 66-MHz PCI.
        Do you guys even read the articles?
        Pot. Kettle. Black.
    • The board has four DDR slots, you can only use two of them if you want to use unregistered DDR.

      Here's a blatant rip from the review:

      "As long as only two slots were filled, the stability was identical and the performance was roughly the same (the unregistered modules are theoretically faster but that doesn't translate into any tangible performance gains). When more than three unregistered DIMMs were installed the system would not POST; and adding a third registered DIMM to a set of two unregistered DIMMs would not boot either."

      Reading the article closely before you post is a good thing.

    • The Tiger comes with 4 or 5 64 Bit PCI slots already.
  • And the stability?
    Or: is it based off of the Via chipset? That bleeping chipset seems to be in eternal beta.
    The stability of the motherboards is, IMHO, the biggest thing keeping AMDs out of the server room. Admins don't give a damn about overclocking the CPUs, they want rock-solid performance and to not have to futz around with 8000 BIOS settings.
    • It's based on the 760 MP chipset from AMD. Desigen by and for AMD chips. Stability? time will tell.

    • Re:How are the drivers for it? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SlamboS ( 129106 ) <alambos@umich.edu> on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:58PM (#2359168)
      I have the Thunder K7 and I haven't had one problem with stability yet. I haven't had a problem in over a month so far, running Windows 2000. I'm running 2x Athlon MP @ 1.2GHz. I'm really happy with this machine. It really heats up the room, though. I have 5 extra case fans and the ones in the back blow out very hot air. That's the only downside to it so far.
    • Tyan is recognized as making the best server motherboards on the market, that is why they have the exclusive rights for one year to make SMP Athlon boards. They have an excellent reputation for stability. I have been running a Thuinder K7 since they came out, and it just plain rocks.

  • ASUS and MSI first 760MPX motherboards (Score:5, Informative)

    by geekwin ( 522031 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:42PM (#2359060) Homepage
    We have photographs [metropoli2000.com] of the new Asus and MSI 760MPX mobos.
  • Great price for an apparently awesome board, but I dont really wanna pay the extra for the Registered Ram . . .

    Looks like I've now got something to save my paychecks for :)

    • Re:RAM . . . (Score:2, Informative)

      by greenfly ( 40953 )
      Apparently you only need the registered RAM if you are going to use more than 2 Memory banks, the article says more about it. It apparently has to do with electrical load on the memory bus. The Anandtech review has this to say:

      The Tiger MP keeps the 4 DIMM slots of the Thunder K7 which is a good thing since efficiency in higher end applications is not only governed by CPU and platform performance, but memory size as well. This also forces it to keep the registered DDR SDRAM requirement, but only if more than two banks are populated. If you only install two modules then you should be fine with regular DDR SDRAM (provided that it has no specific compatibility issues with the Tiger MP). During our tests we ran the board with Corsair Registered DDR SDRAM modules and the same Crucial unregistered DDR SDRAM we use in all of our other tests. As long as only two slots were filled, the stability was identical and the performance was roughly the same (the unregistered modules are theoretically faster but that doesn't translate into any tangible performance gains). When more than three unregistered DIMMs were installed the system would not POST; and adding a third registered DIMM to a set of two unregistered DIMMs would not boot either.
    • Well, the price premium for 512MB DIMMS is a little sharp, but for the 256MB modules, the premium is minimal... and I'm one of those crazy guys who actually believes in ECC memory, too (after tracking some statistics... it is amazing what a noisy supply can do).

      (for PC2100 - heck, these are so cheap now anyway)
      256MB - $27 plain / $40 reg&ECC
      512MB - $87 plain / $111 reg&ECC

  • Why would I need 2 Athlons? (Score:5, Funny)

    by SpanishInquisition ( 127269 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:43PM (#2359067) Homepage Journal
    One is quite enough to heat up my appartment during the coldest winter nights. That motherboard is for someone with a big house or something.

  • And this one uses a standard PS (Score:5, Informative)

    by greenfly ( 40953 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:46PM (#2359085)
    Nice thing about this board in comparison with Tyan's other AMD MP offerings is the fact that you can use a standard ATX power supply. Tyan's previous boards required that you purchase a proprietary 450W power supply. They recommend at least 300W, though. I'm running one of these right now with a single 1.2 Palomino on the 300W PS that came with my In-Win Q500N with no problems as of yet. While it can handle a standard power supply now, Tyan still recommends that you use Registered PC2100 RAM for it. I was able to find 256M for around $50 or so.

    I recommend Einux Systems [einuxsys.com] if you are looking for a place to purchase a motherboard processor combo for this board.

    Before this board came out I was going to go for a dual PIII 1Ghz system, but since that type of processor is always going to stay at 1Ghz, I figured it was worth the extra money to be able to upgrade this board to wherever the Palomino chipset ends up (from what I've heard it the chipset should be able to scale up to 2Ghz or so).

    There are supposed to be other boards released by Abit, MSI, etc. in the next month or two that will be even cheaper, but if you are like me and couldn't wait (and aren't planning on overclocking your system) then this board is a good choice.
    • It's not for the athlons & mb. It's for the entire system. Anywone buying one of these would typically be loading it up with lots of u160 scsi drives and the like.


      Once the prices settle after the October chip announcements, I'll be having one of these built with the Thunder board (unless something else comes along :). I *do* need u160 scsi, and will be loading it up with about 4 15k cheetahs for my workstation. mmm, raw power . . .


      hawk

      • Actually, the extra connector was for the Video card... I kid you not! The AGP pro? spec wanted an insane amount of power to be available to the video card. I've never seen a video card that ran extra power through the mainboard - several that did use an external power connecter, however...
    • Yes, but the specs call for the 5V to be able to kick out at least 30A. I don't know if this can happen with a "standard" supply. Anyone who knows more about power supplies wish to comment on the current capability of the 5V node?
      • 30A @ 5V should be fairly easy for all power supplies to handle.

        Voltage * current = Power
        5v * 30 A = 150 Watts

        Steven
      • Yes, but the specs call for the 5V to be able to kick out at least 30A. I don't know if this can happen with a "standard" supply. Anyone who knows more about power supplies wish to comment on the current capability of the 5V node?
        You'll need to check the specs for your particular power supply. For instance, the Enermax EG365P-VE [enermax.com.tw] that I'm currently using is rated for 32A on both +3.3 and +5. If you have one of the "name-brand" power supplies, tracking down specs for it shouldn't be too difficult.

  • Tyan 2460, nice but picky (Score:5, Informative)

    by MadCow42 ( 243108 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:49PM (#2359109) Homepage
    I ordered one of these a few weeks ago, and unfortunately it arrived "Dead On Arrival".

    I've been talking to a lot of other 2460 owners, and everyone is impressed, but everyone agrees that it can also be a very picky board.

    There's been many reports of memory related problems, specifically with some brands of memory. The consensus so far is that Corsair memory has been the most reliable.

    Once it's up an running though, there's been nothing but raving reviews.

    MadCow... anxiously awaiting my replacement mobo...
    • I have one running as a server for a small non-profit I volunteer for, It has 2 256k non reg ram and 2 1.2 non mp processors in a 65 dollar case, it runs great and has not had any problem. Its running axon linux

  • Whole article link (Score:3, Informative)

    by [amorphis] ( 45762 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:50PM (#2359114)
    Get the whole article in one shot with the Print Article [anandtech.com] link.

  • Registered DDR is not a handicap. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Shivetya ( 243324 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:52PM (#2359132) Homepage Journal
    256Mb dimms are only $7.00 dollars more than their unregistered brethern. Checking crucial's site confirmed the cost really is not an issue

    This looks the motherboard I was waiting for, as I don't need all the bells the previous offering had, let alone the price tag.

    Granted a 64bit/66mhz bus chipset is coming out, but for those to whom this board appeals to most likely won't need the 66mhz PCI.

    • That's funny, I don't. In fact, if cost is an issue you shouldn't be. Use Pricewatch man. I'm sure that you'll find that the difference is sufficiently more than $7.00 dollars.
      • That's funny, I don't. In fact, if cost is an issue you shouldn't be. Use Pricewatch man. I'm sure that you'll find that the difference is sufficiently more than $7.00 dollars.
        The last time I checked (which was admittedly a while ago), Crucial beat nearly everyone else's price for DDR SDRAM. While the Pricewatch vendors have since lowered their prices (256MB PC2100 registered starting at $38 vs. $41 at Crucial), it's anyone's guess whose parts they usually use. Even if a Pricewatch vendor advertises its product as Micron memory, it's probably just Micron's chips on who-knows-whose board. Last time I checked, Crucial sold DIMMs that were completely assembled by Micron...chips, boards, everything.

        Factor in the free 2nd-day shipping and it looks like Crucial is still cheaper overall.

        (No, I don't work for Crucial or Micron...but I've bought from them on more than one occasion and don't see myself buying memory from other vendors anytime in the near future.)

      • I buy nearly ALL of my computer parts off of priceline - find the cheapest and get it.

        but I've started buying my memory off of crucial due to the higher quality, and barely higher price. It is more of a crapshoot if you soley go the pricewatch way. I used to do that and scoff at those that did otherwise, but then got burned muliple times with crap.

        crucial guarentees quality.
    • Does anyone know where I can get 512M DDR? I've seen a few places in the various price bots, but not at a decent price from anyone I'd trust to buy from.

  • I've had trouble with getting tech support from Tyan. I've also had trouble with their manuals not being complete.
    • Buy your mobo's locally. I quit buying mobo's thru the Net a few years ago for just that reason. Mobo makers give crappy support. So I found a local store owned by two brothers and they get all my mobo business. If they don't stock it, they'll order it. And their service is great. Sure, I pay a little more, but it is well worth it. How much is peace of mind worth to you? ;)

  • (Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (Score:5, Informative)

    by SexPig ( 464304 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @12:57PM (#2359163) Homepage
    I've used AMD processors and would've bought AMD when I upgraded my machine 5 mos ago if the SMP capabilities were there but I'm not so certain now after the Tom's Hardware review. In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it.

    I think we all use Linux for it's across the board stability so why not apply those high expectations to the hardware we put in those boxes? I for one think that I may not be purchasing AMD until they address the fact that the heat monitoring system that works for a fan-failure should also work for aa heatsink begin dislodged. Else you may find yourself out the $$ for a processor as well as the cost of your kick-ass Tyan mobo.

    • Re:(Athlon-Heatsink) = Toast (Score:5, Insightful)

      by RollingThunder ( 88952 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @01:09PM (#2359232)
      In related news, a test of automobile engines showed poor design, as they all seized when the oil was drained out while they were running...

      Sure, the TBirds cook off without a heatsink. However, you can get two, maybe three, TBirds for the price of one PIV, and they'll still kick it's ass. ESPECIALLY in multiprocessor systems.

      So, do you want that safety limiter on your speed, in the bizarre case that your heatsink FALLS OFF, or do you really want to floor it?
      • If a result of the seized engine was a fire that took out pedestrians it would not be acceptable. I had a faulty mobo catch on fire once and it made me nervous to leave my box up n' running at home while at the office (was the sound chip from a Dell system).

        Also, an oil light in the car notifies you when oil is low (like CPU hot notification) but a car does not usually idle unattended whereas a computer does.

        Finally, the feature exists in one brand but not the other (Athlon vs Pentium) so I don't find your analogy convincing.

        If you insist on car analogies, though, I'll take the Volvo, sir!

        • True, all analogies fall apart in one way or another....

          The other replier got it, though. It's a completely unrealistic problem for a HSF to completely fall off, unless it's poorly made (one clip per side), the nubs on the CPU mount are weak, AND the box is subjected to a severe jolt, enough to make the HSF rip off.

          As I said before, you can choose to limit your performance in fear of such a situation, that's the benefit of multiple processor makers. I think it's a ludicrous concern, and am glad for the extra performance, especially in SMP conditions (yes, I admin a SMP TBird, specifically an APPRO 1124 1U dual tbird, http://www.appro.com - and it's mindblowingly fast).

          Also, that chip of yours is just as you said - faulty. Doesn't matter for PIV vs TBird, any subcomponent is as (un)likely to fail on either brand's mobos. Nobody ever said life was safe. :)
        • Also, an oil light in the car notifies you when oil is low (like CPU hot notification) but a car does not usually idle unattended whereas a computer does.

          Most new motherboards have temperature monitoring. Many bioses also let you have the machine power off automatically if the temerature reaches a particular amount.

          With OS support of the temperature monitoring and the ability to lower clock speed, you can also do fun things like reduce the speed of your processor to cool it down when it starts getting too hot.
      • a test of automobile engines showed poor design, as they all seized when the oil was drained out while they were running...
        Bad analogy. This is analogous to an automobile engine loosing coolant.

        There are some engines that can handle a catastrophic loss of coolant by running on fewer cylinders, and using the "unused" cylanders to help keep the engine cool (I know some Cadillacs have this).

        It's a matter of quality. AMD is still deficient in some areas compared to Intel.

        If you leave your machine running unattended, you probably would rather not have it catch fire.

    • and if you don't throw your case across the room, you will not have that problem...

      I think too many people are taking that test too seriously...so what if it fries it...then put the dang thing on right in the first place!
      • The review specifically stated that the heatsink could not firmly attach to the motherboard due to space restrictions. In addition, I have had heatsinks dislodge from the CPU; I don't recall throwing the box but being a geeky-type guy I frequently go into my box, swap hardware, etc.

        I didn't say the CPUs were faulty; I simply stated that *I'm* not buying them if there's a risk of the mobo going up in flames just because my dog may have knocked the case over.

        • I didn't say the CPUs were faulty; I simply stated that *I'm* not buying them if there's a risk of the mobo going up in flames just because my dog may have knocked the case over.
          Hmm...how about locating your computer such that your dog can't knock it over? Never mind what might happen if the processor heat sink fell off (not likely anyway, if it's properly installed); your computer's hard drive is not likely to be happy with that kind of treatment, especially if it's spun up when the computer is knocked over. One of mine is in a closet (where every server belongs); the others are either sandwiched between the desk and the printer stand, stacked next to the desk, or on top of the desk.

        • I have one of the early Thunder K7s on my desk with the case off, another system stacked on top. It has been moved from office to office (with the stacked unit), and generally abused for a couple of months. The heatsinks (not even intended for K7) show no sign of coming off.

          The thermal shutdown/throttle is nice, but to me, the higher performance and better price/performance is more than worth foregoing the thermal protection.

      • >then put the dang thing on right in the first place!

        For those that build their own machines, no doubt.

        For those that buy...

        Had a case just the other day of someone I work with losing their machine from this. Was a store-bought system (hey, not everyone builds their own) and the thing fried after being moved to a new house. When she plugged it in and started it up at the new place, it halted during bootup and refused to even get past the bios post. Now it shows no signs of life at all.

        Guess what - AMD with the heatsink fallen off.

        The thing is out of warranty and she is screwed.
    • >In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it.

      Yes, but that's a *catastrophic* failure. Heatsinks are not moving parts and generally don't fail.

      Now, Fans DO fail, but then in that case the temperature increase is much more gradual and the chipset or software can power off the box in time.
      Even in a 1U box, you have good directional airflow so I would expect it not to fry.

    • Heatsink Installation 101:

      1. Clip heatsink/fan unit onto socket.
      2. Look to make sure it's on properly.
      3. Power up, check fan, put case back together.
      4. Do not drop, kick, throw, or abuse the computer.
      5. Molecular reconstrucion of the spring-clip is not recommended. This may cause it to fall off.

      (Ah, nevermind, i'm going too far here.)

      Dude, i have never had any heatsink fall off my CPU. If I did, then I deserve to buy another CPU. Sheesh at $110 or so, a 1.4GHz Athlon is disposable.
    • In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it

      Who would do this??? There's even a warning sticker on Athlons and Durons that specifically states not to operate without a heatsink.

      As far as being dislodged, I've never heard of that in normal operation, but if you're overly paranoid, you could get a HSF that screws into the motherboard like the mc462 from swiftech [swiftnets.com]. It uses the four screw holes present on all socket A motherboards.

      They show a "crash test" where they repeatedly dropped a case off the roof of a one story building. The HSF did not come off.

    • Yo KarmaWhore (Score:3, Informative)

      by mosch ( 204 )
      Go look in your BIOS at the temperature monitoring stuff. You'll see a section where you can choose a temperature at which you want the machine to automatically shutdown, in case say, the heatsink falls off.

      Oh yeah, and it's set to something reasonable my default. You actually have to disable that if you want to fry your processor.

      Next time you're going to whine, whine about something legitimate.

  • Mounting Heatsinks (Score:5, Informative)

    by doorbot.com ( 184378 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @01:02PM (#2359190) Journal
    Note that the Tiger MP has problems with larger heatsinks due to the layout of the PCB. Check the Anandtech article for more info.

    One other problem that the Anandtech article didn't mention is that the board does not have the four mounting holes around the processor sockets (like the P4s all have, and many AMD have). So forget about the latest Swiftech and Alpha heatsinks which require those holes.

    Perhaps Tyan decided to omit the holes because there wasn't room anyways... the heatsinks that mount via screws tend to be bigger and may not have fit properly anyways. At the same time, I do like the mounting holes as I feel a lot safer when my heatsink is screwed onto the motherboard -- I don't want it popping off and allowing my processor to burn itself up.

    • Re:Mounting Heatsinks (Score:4, Informative)

      by Jeffrey Baker ( 6191 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @01:36PM (#2359399)
      I dislike the "bigger + louder is better" notion in the do-it-yourself computer hardware community. I think this idea has been planted by the same people who drive Camaros and Mustangs :) Seriously, there is NO reason to get a huge brick of a heatsink for these new Athlons. What is needed is a heatsink and fan combination designed by actual engineers from an actual engineering company, like, for example, Hewlett Packard. Look, here's one:

      Agilent ArctiCooler HACA-0002 [agilent.com]

      The Agilent cooler is small so it presents no mounting problems. It is very light, so it won't shear the socket off your mainboard. It is quiet, so it won't drive your wife/husband/parents/kids/dog/cat/neighbors berserk. Best of all, it cools the 1.4 GHz Athlon better than any other cooler around, including those enormous bricks with 8500 RPM fans.

      • It better be nice. And cool my beer too.


        Agilent Articooler Price [centralcomputer.com]

      • On the contrary, I want a bigger, better heatsink to cool my processor, so that I can run a low voltage, low speed fan on the heatsink and still adequately cool the intensive heat produced by the 1.4 Ghz Athlon. I just bought a few upgrades for my gaming machine and I chose a 1 Ghz Duron because it will run cooler (and thus I don't need the high pitched whine of a 7000 RPM fan driving me nuts).

        I would rather heatsinks get bigger, as there will be more surface area for heat transfer to the air. Plus, I can then use a larger diameter fan, which can produce more airflow for a lower decibel level.

        The other advantage of getting a large heatsink is that hopefully you can reuse it if and when you upgrade to that 10 Ghz processor. I would refer you to the Pentium 4. The unreleased Socket 478 Northwood (I think that's the code name) is expected to hit 1 Ghz. So let's say I buy a 2 Ghz version now, I could keep my nice big (expensive) heatsink which is rated for that 10 Ghz processor. Now, which will be a more efficient (and thus potentially quieter) cooler? The HSF designed for a 2 Ghz chip (and associated heat production) or one designed for a 10 Ghz chip?

      • I use a Noisecontrol [noisecontrol.de] Silverado [noisecontrol.de]. It's really quiet and was the winner [tomshardware.com] in a Tom's Hardware [tomshardware.com] roundup, and the quietest at 38db [tomshardware.com].

        It cools my 1.2Ghz Athlon running at 1.35GHz just fine, and I can't hear it at all over the Antec case fans (which are quiet as well).

        Price is an issue though -- it was $88 shipped to the US from Germany, but it arrived quickly.

        It's 80mmx56mm, but it's 133mm tall because it uses twin squirrel-cage fans, so it's certainly not going to fit in a rack-mount, but it fits in a tower just fine.


  • Why is it that AMD produces explicit MP CPUs [amd.com], and I read about MP boards that can use standard CPUs?

    • Re:Inform me. (Score:4, Informative)

      by greenfly ( 40953 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @01:22PM (#2359306)
      The Palomino chipset has some MP optimizations, and is officially supported by AMD for MP use. The older processors will work, but don't perform as well in the benchmarks I've seen. The Anandtech review states that they were able to use the old Athlon chipset in this board too. I'm thinking that when they built their old chip they allowed SMP, but they didn't optimize for it (or perhaps there were other issues with the chip that we don't know about) and so they released a new chipset once the MP boards were ready that was optimized for it.

      So, yeah, you can use the old Athlons in your Tyan 2460, but if you really want the performance, you'll want to go with their Palomino core. As a added benefit, the Palomino is supposed to run cooler too.
  • NOt only did you get the dual athlons, you got dual 3com NICs, Adaptec 7899W dual channel Ultra160 SCSI controller (dual channel!), onboard ATI RageXL graphics. Add all that up as seperate components, and the board doesn't look that expensive. Espically when you have all that hardware and still have 5 ? 64-bit/33MHz PCI slots (backwards compatible with 32-bit/33MHz PCI devices).

    Overall, the board is competitive to server board offerings from Intel. I haven't been overly impressed with the onboard 3com nics however. Installing linux can be a chore as they don't always work except on the latest 2.2 kernels. The drivers included in Windows 2000 for these cards have a few bugs in them as well. In both cases it's fixable by driver/kernel updates, but could present an issue during installation.

    And the problems I've had with the onboard 3com's have been on Dell motherboards anyway. :)
    • We've had pretty good luck with the 3com nic's in the latitude's at work. What we were having issues with was the Xircom dual 10/100 & Modem combo pcmcia cards. Some have to be installed upside down to work (poor qc on the system boards?).

      Shrug.

      I'll continue to have no problems with my 1.4GHz Athlon at home.

    • Onboard stuff is... well... onboard. Come on. I mean, ok, maybe the NICs work fine, but honestly, I only needed one. Maybe the SCSI controller is great (hope it comes with provisions for external connect though) - but I already have a perfectly good SCSI card sitting here ready to pop in, so whatever the added cost of the onboard setup, it's too much. And onboard video always sucks, unless it's exactly what you need and that never changes. In this case it's not. I've never had a good experience trying to add a vidcard to a board with one built in - and again the added cost, low though it may be, is worse than 100% waste - not only paying for something not needed, but for something that will probably wind up causing problems.

      • You're obviously not the target for the Thunder board then are you? These boards are very competitive with Intel's server board offerings.
      • You need to keep in mind the target audience. With a big SMP motherboard, it is really geared for serving. Servers are often Rackmounts, the Fewer Us the better. With a motherboard like this, a decent 1U system can be built. At the very least most servers could care less about your video card and such, even if in a Desktop system. Heck, Sun's Netra rackmount systems don't usually have a video card ta all. If the PC world didn't care about graphics so much, then you could leave the onboard video out. When I build a home system, I avoid built-ins like the plague, I have room to spare to get the better stuff put in. But the typical home user will get by fine with uni-processor configuration...

      • Maybe the SCSI controller is great (hope it comes with provisions for external connect though)

        There is an internal only, but it's not hard to get a cable that ends with an external connector for mounting in an open case slot. It's even easier since there are 2 SCSI channels built in.

    • Xibby said:
      > I haven't been overly impressed with the onboard 3com nics however. Installing linux can be a chore as they don't always work except on the latest 2.2 kernels.

      I don't mean this as a flame. I'm genuinely curious, what are your reasons for not wanting to use the 2.2.x kernels?
      • No, I want to use the 2.2.x kernels, 2.2.19 exactly. The problem is that Debian's installer for Potato is a 2.2.17pre7 (or something like that....), and I didn't have good luck getting the onboard controller to work durring the install.

        Also, at the time I was doing this perticular install, 2.2.17 was the very latest kernel. The only way the onboard controller would work was with the latest netdrivers package from Scyld [scyld.com]

        This has all been rectified now with newer kernels, but if your installer uses an older kernel you're looking at updating the installer or finding a different NIC for the install. (Unless you're using a CD or Modem for install, I do network installs, so I need a working NIC during install.)

        Other than that, I haven't had too much trouble with them other than the Windows 2000 bug and having them not respond to WOL (Wake On Lan) requests, even though WOL was enabled.

    • Not really expensive, but there is one gotcha in that the Thunder uses a proprietary power suply connector; there are, as far as I have read, only three suppliers with the appropriate connector available on the market.

      The Tiger uses a standard ATX power supply.

  • monarchcomputer [monarchcomputer.com]

    These guys test out the board/cpu/ram for you. I haven't had any problems with mine which I have had for almost a month.

    My only problem is noise. I got the ThermalTake Volcano II because it was listed as the lowest decibals.
    But both those fans running are still horrendously loud.

  • It looks like I've finally found a board that's worthy enough to replace the bp6 I've been using forever.

    The bp6 let me use low cost celerons in an smp config, and now I can use durons the same way.
    • I dunno, my BP6 with 2 Celeron 400's running at 522(?)Mhz each still runs everything fine. I have a TNT2 Ultra 32MB card too. Q3A runs in 1024x768 at about 40fps. Unreal Tournament is the same. Kernel compiles are quick, about 4 minutes. RAM helps.. I have 768MB (board's max amt). I see no reason to upgrade yet. Maybe in another 2 or 3 years.

  • Boy! (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by daeley ( 126313 )
    Imagine a StarCat Cluster of these! :)
  • it still has the 33 like its big brother.

    son of a...
  • i use a tyan 230 w/dual PIII CPUs... what i like is the *lack* of features, and only want to deal w/RAM, storage, CD-ROM, and video

    i went with the Intel CPUs because i read about the tests of the AMDs regarding cooling fan failure and how the CPUs don't have thermal protection (dead CPU, kill the mobo, and fire hazard)...

    has anyone ever experienced this in a home-built box w/AMD CPUs?

  • Fan Recommendation? Crusoes an Interesting Alt. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by idonotexist ( 450877 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @02:03PM (#2359513)
    Considering the heat Athlon puts out, what fan is recommended? It would be nice to have something quiet, but I guess that would contradict the desire to have a cool fan.

    On a related note, I recently read of servers equiped with Transmeta Crusoes having no fans. While I am sure the performance of the Crusoe is not as great as Athlons, it is a trade-off to consider imo. Here is a bit from a recent press release of the Crusoes:
    NEC CS56 NetBrain server has won a Nikkei Byte Best of World PC Expo 2001 Editors' Choice award. The small office/home office server, with a 600MHz Crusoe microprocessor, consumes less than 20 watts of power at full operating speed and
    does not require a cooling fan as a result of the microprocessor's unique, power-efficient design. If an interruption occurs in the main power supply, a built-in auxiliary battery supply kicks in and the server will continue to operate before shutting down in a safe manner. The NEC server runs Linux 6.5 Secure Server edition, comes with a built-in UPS and optional RAID, and can fit into a 19-inch wide rack in two- and three-unit wide configurations. It includes 192MB SO-DIMM memory, an ATI-mobility graphics chipset, 40GB (x2 for RAID) hard drives, optional CD-ROM, one serial, two USB, one parallel, two PCI, two PS/2, one VGA and dual RJ-45 ports. Internally, there are up to two PCI sockets and room for compact flash storage.

  • In General, I can care less about the ATX form factor. Allowing the operating system advanced control over a switching power supply is something I regard as a conspiracy to thwart Linux's efforts for longest up-time. ACPI controllers have always been a waste of a perfectly-good IRQ. APM and "green-pc" was a thing of the past too. The powersupply should have interactivity with the operating system as to when it will shutoff and how many seconds power will remain "on", which is purely Unix-friendly in my POV. We don't need anying integrated on the motherboard: RS232 ports, Parallel Ports, USB, FloppyDisk Controller, IDE Controller.

    This is legacy speeking to us on how we should have a generic system setup. We need a new device interface. Think of PCI, but without the bracket and IO connectors facing behind the computer, outside. Think of PCI in the middle of the board with IO riser-cables snaking to the front of the Computer Case to the actual user. Everyone enjoys easy access to their PCMCIA, CardBus, USB, Firewire, and RS232 ports on the front of the Computer; think of Compaq's idea. Or even think of a IO-Hub on a rotary arm that swivels from the computer case to wherever you want, without it touching your workspace.

    Motherboard, we need them smaller. We need them more customizable. I want to see a Dual AMD AthlonMP Motherboard or Dual Pentium V Motherboard with a dependable number of 32bit PCI-slots, TWO AGP SLOTS, a nice array of 64bit PCI-slots, 4 168pin DIMM SLOTS, and DUAL CPU SLOTS that give courtesy to full-length PCI and AGP DEVICES. Frankly, I want a motherboard that is simply a BUS for the RAM, CPUs, and expansion cards. I want to add my own firewire and scsi interfaces and be able to remove them *with ease when they fail. I'm talking about a motherboard with the dimensions of 8 inches BY 8 inches. Can they do it? That's the challenge!

    My comment on the Tyan is: "Those two remaining 32bit PCI slots will allove my Hercules Stingray 12MB Voodoo2 SLI-mode videocards some optimum motherboard usage. Too bad they stuck with ATX form factor and weren't able to integrate 7 PCI slots at their discretion."

  • My experience with this board (Score:5, Informative)

    by pben harris ( 213457 ) on Thursday September 27, 2001 @03:11PM (#2360047)
    I plunked down my $250 and waited three weeks to get this board. IMHO it was worth the wait! The system has been entirely stable, dual booting both Red Hat 7.1 and Win2k. I use it for video processing and it's a workhorse. I can encode DVD quality MPEG-2's from DV source in practically real-time, with motion search filtering and a high bit rate for output.

    However I tried to triple boot with Windows 98 so I can use a cheap video grabber card--my advice is DON'T EVEN TRY to install Win98 on this board. Mine installed fine but would not boot Win98.

    Placing the heatsink/fans on the CPUs was kind of tricky. I had 2mm of clearance between my heatsink/fan of choice and the single row of capacitors on the board. If the caps didn't wiggle I wouldn't have been able to install the heatsink/fans.

    I found humor on the inside cover of the manual. I was pleased to see in print that this motherboard is certified for *both* Win2k and RH 7.1. However that textual note was marked with an asterisk to the effect:

    This Tyan board is fully supported by Red Hat 7.1; however Tyan is not responsible if Red Hat no longer continues to support Red Hat 7.1.
    Hello Tyan! I believe Microsoft will stop meaningful support of Win2k long before that RH would stop meaningful support of RH 7.1. More info about that assertion here [microsoft.com], here [gartner.com] and here [cnet.com].

    Also, a warning. If you choose to install 1 Gb or so of ECC, registered memory, then booting takes a long time. There's some kind of POST that occurs for this kind of memory that delays my boot by like 30 seconds.

    Finally, I just want to say that SMP is no magic bullet. For my purposes this board is fabulous. But in fact, some applications run more slowly on a dual CPU system. For example, any given single threaded program (read: first person shooter) will take a hit, say 2-5% of its speed. Your application has to use multiple threads to take advantage of this environment. Of course you can run more processes, that's nice.

    You can judge for yourself if this is a good board for you. Look at the reviews for the Tyan Thunder K7, I feel they apply to the Tiger when it comes to processor performance. You can find review for that board here [amdmb.com] and here [2cpu.com]

  • More fps in DroneZ with Dual CPUs (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Dual processors can increase your gaming pleasure. DroneZ gets 20%-78% more fps with dual athlons.

    These results came from a review of the Tyan Thunder K7
    http://www.amdworld.co.uk/ty.htm

    The bottom of this page has the benchmarks.
    http://www.amdworld.co.uk/ty8.htm

    Comparing 1 CPU vs 2 CPU (Athlon 1.2GHz MP)

    1 CPU 2 CPUs Improvement
    Highest Quality: 44.37 54 21.7%
    High Quality: 61.2 98.9 61.4%
    Medium Quality: 62.32 102.11 63.8%
    Low Quality: 83.91 149.8 78.5%

  • TigerMP (Score:2)

    by tcc ( 140386 )
    It's an *EXCELLENT* board, a bit expensive but it doesn't have all the "problems" it's older brother had (power supply issues comes to mind).

    BTW: KUDOS to anandtech for doing something more than quake benchmarks (not that I mind about quake benchmarks but only GAMES benchmarks and crap like sysmarks doesn't show the real potential of the board in a REALWORLD context, you can tweak a system/drivers for specific tests, EVEN if they are supposed to be the closest thing to realworld, manufacturer know exactly WHAT the websites are going to benchmark with and they will exploit everything they can). I really appreciate the fact that there was something like 3DSmax rendering numbers for example, you don't buy that kind of setup to play games, you buy it for cad, 3d, server, workstation, GENERALLY :).

    Of course it's still a bit "expensive" right now, but since it's unique on the market due to tyan's exclusive deal with amd, I guess it's a bit normal for them to try to cash in on that, still it's WAY cheaper than the intel equivalent offering. The price will come down soon enough when Asus releases it's version and there were rumors about a gigabyte motherboard comming soon as well.

    The only thing that would make me hesitate if I was someone without the budget and wanting to invest for a "longer term" solution, if there's supposed to be an HAMMER announcement from amd in october or november (with all you can read on the net) and the fact that it should run 3x the speed of an Athlon, you might want to hold off a bit, but else, it's an excellent choice, I've ordered 5 extra renderfarm nodes built on Tiger MP motherboards. The only thing I have to worry now is heat management ;)

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