Organic Screens, Coming Soon 100
InfiniteWaitState writes: "Lighter weight laptops may soon be more affordable and have better displays ... Forget LCD, according to this article in The Economist, soon OLED (Organic Light-Emitting Diodes) will be in mass production." These organic screens keep getting promised, but this article says that at least 30 companies now have plans to produce them, and that Sony has some biggish plans for TVs as well as computer screens, as well as a 13" demo model to show off.
Re:how hard is this: (Score:1)
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
I really really hate anything where I need to replace part of it on a regular basis.
It is terrible to generate so much waste, it is a money issue, and also, what happens if the company decides to stop making the replacement parts?
See OLEDs in action in San Jose next week (SID) (Score:3)
As well as floor exhibits from various vendors, there will be a section dedicated to showing off the latest in display technologies (actually working).
I think tuesday and wednesday the floor is open to the public ($10 at the door, maybe). check out the website for more info: http://www.sid.org
Re:Organic... What exacty does that mean? (Score:2)
Re:A New Color Space! (Score:1)
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
My advice is always to just buy the branded replacment as it works out cheaper in the long run from having to buy new printers. Plus it's important to think of refill costs when buying the printer in the first place.
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Delphis
contains carbon (Score:2)
Re:Separate transistors? (Score:4)
The difficulty of LCD is that you have a transparent substrate, a charge grid below the crystal, a layer of liquid crystal, a ground grid above the crystal and a color grid that changes the white-light display to RGB. Oh, and the glass plates (substrate?) that sandwitch all of this, and the diffuser and backlight. But the big deal is that the glass has to be extremely flat and parallel, and the grids have to all line up, and there can be no closed cells in any of the grids. Fail any one of these and the screen has a dead region (anything visible is death).
Contrast OLED -- light is provided by the element, so the back panel can be opaque (read: not as fragile). The color is in the element too, so one layer of alignment goes. Finally, with proper design the back electrode can provide ground as well, eliminating another alignment headache, and allowing some play (as long as both + and - make it into the pixel, it lights up, and since there's no grid on top you see it whether it's spot-on or not).
So reduction in precision (or better performance for equal precision) and the fact that everything can be layered on a single glass sheet (rather than 2 which must be aligned and mounted parallel) makes the error rate potentially lower, as soon as the new equipment reaches the same level of debugg-ed-ness as the LCD equipment.
Of course, there's still the problem of dye fading and aligning 2 or 3 layers, and that we now want to have larger sheets for larger displays, and that we want to go to plastic to make more durable displays, but hey, researchers gotta eat...
Cell Phone OLED Display (Score:1)
Re:Backlights (Score:2)
Re:Backlights (Score:2)
Re:how hard is this: (Score:2)
Re:Still five years away, but progressing nicely (Score:2)
-AP
Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:5)
Re:Good Times Virus (Score:2)
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Wake me up... (Score:1)
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Re:Organic, its scary (Score:2)
The word "organic" means the substance has carbon in it. That's all. I doubt that the panels would have any more of a health hazard than plastic, another organic material. At any rate, OLED color screens won't last ten years with present technology because the blue OLEDs only last 1000-2000 hours before fading. Hopefully that'll change soon. Heck, ten years ago, the only blue LEDs that existed would last for ten minutes before burning out - after being cooled with liquid nitrogen.
Short life blue OLED: a kludgy solution (Score:1)
The downsides to this are a) in a GRBBB pixel pattern, 40% of your pixels will be dark at any one time, reducing overall screen brightness and resolution, b) the processing overhead of keeping track of which blue pixels have been lit recently and which have been dark, c) potential problems with screen flicker as the blue light comes from different pixels, and d) spending $100M to develop the necessary technology to work around short-lived blue dyes, only to have some smartass announce a new, long-lived blue dye.
Hmmmm... now that I've said it out loud, it doesn't sound like such a great idea anymore.
Re:OLEDs and ClearType (Score:1)
Re:OLEDs and ClearType (Score:1)
Organics Rock! (Score:1)
Current LCD's don't emit their own light, and block 66% of the backlight in them, so they're big bulky and inefficient. The Organics emit their own light, so should be half the weight at 1/3 the power consumption. Organics, at mass production quantities, are projected at about 1/2 the cost of LCD's. They're higher contrast, better resolution, and low self interference as well.
Finally my laptop won't look all fuzzy all the time!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Separate transistors? (Score:1)
Have a good weekend.
Re:Vaporous Article (Score:1)
Dive Gear [divingdeals.com]
SOYLENT SCREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!!!! (Score:1)
Still five years away, but progressing nicely (Score:1)
My personal prediction is that in ten years, once the quantities ramp up and the manufacturing techniques are improved, it will be darned hard to buy a CRT, as the OLED flat screens will have displaced them.
Re:Further Reading (Score:2)
I don't know about reliability of the OLED manufacturing process, but the TFT LCD cost a lot because there are lot of units thaat gets trashed because manufacturing is unreliable.
As always, price always lower when time goes, so 20% more now means lot less later, when the product is more widely used and mature.
New excuse for not getting your work done... (Score:2)
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lan parties! (Score:2)
Plus, imagine having 15 guys sitting around a few tables all wearing headset displays, that would just be so cool. It would look like something from out of Star Trek(or pick your favorite sci-fi).
With prototypes already made, and so many companies planning on using this stuff, it looks like we may finally get to see these in action. Hopefully the cost will be as cheap as they imply.
Re:Backlights (Score:2)
Yeah, I used to have an Atari Lynx. Great in a dark movie theater before the movie starts. Useless in strong sunlight.
From what I've seen though (from people carrying around the new Motorola cell phones) these things are pretty usable even in direct sunlight, partially because when they are off they really absorb light quite well so contrast is very good. I doubt that the OLED's would become reflective when 'lit' so a sunny beach might still be out of the question, but at least they aren't as hard to read as the first LED digital watches.
Its alive! (Score:2)
Now no-one can ... (Score:1)
Laugh at me for spilling (feeding) coffee on my PC
Tell me I can't have a "date" with my laptop
heh, Shodan DOES LIVE!
Oh.. and the FuFme thing brings a whole swag of new ideas to mind...
Re:When! (Score:2)
Right on!
I expect to be viewing my wall-hanging, flatscreen, OLED digital HDTV with that low-cost, too-cheap-to-be-metered, last mile broadband feed to my home Soon®!
Re:A New Color Space! (Score:2)
It should be immediately apparent that this isn't on the order of "the human eye can resolve down to a 120/th of a degree at the center of focus" limit on resolution, since, AFAIK, back row at IMAX beats that limit. Resolution is simply (hah) a matter of getting your pixels small enough, or whatever. But you can't solve the negative light problem; how do you emit darkness?
Sure, it's nice to be getting closer to that color space, but don't get too excited; we're a long way yet from either a pigment and light hybrid, or an new color emulation system. Probably direct nervous stimulation would be easier. (More secure too: let's hope it's harder to Van Eck your eyeballs than a monitor.)
Re:Separate transistors? (Score:2)
When! (Score:2)
Finally it looks like we might be getting there, seeing as people are actually trying to use them in devices rather than just hypothesising. But I think their imagination is still a bit limited since the potential for these is huge - fancy a HUD in your sunglasses, or a spherical TV screen? OLEDs make this substantially easier to achieve. So c'mon already; I wanna buy!
Rock On! (Score:2)
Now, let's see, a, i, u, e, o, ka, ki, ku, etc.
Re:Backlights (Score:5)
However, if you're wanting something that changes colour but isn't illuminated you're going to have to look elsewhere I'm afraid - these don't work like LCDs. Hope this clears things up a bit.
Re:Further Reading (Score:1)
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Re:A New Color Space! (Score:1)
A person whose knowledge of "programming" comes entirely from Dilbert comics is a frightening thing. Please drive thru, sir.
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Re:Backlights (Score:1)
I found your post "Insightful". The problem that these people have is that you used the word "backlight", which presumes that the light source is separate from the actual display device. There are at least tens of thousands of readers here, so don't be so hard on yourself. Some people got it.
As to whether these things will work in outside conditions, I didn't see anything hinting at a yes, so you're right, we may have to wait for the following generation of displays or some future improvements. Cheers,
Mike.
Re:Vaporous Article (Score:2)
I believe OLED's are being used in the new Motorola Timeport which is already in stores. Though its monochrome, its still an OLED. For a more technical look at OLED,TOLED, etc.:
Univeral Display Corp. [universaldisplay.com]
Check out the Transparent OLEDs!
cheers,
metric
They're out NOW! (Score:1)
"In its Timeport line of telephones, Motorola has already incorporated an OLED display made by Pioneer Electronics of Japan
Re:This is cool I guess but... (Score:1)
Ha!
I'm waiting for the printed onto paper onees, then I can paper the wall of my office. Almost enough room for the number of xterms and emacs windos I keep open.
_O_
Re:When! (Score:1)
Re:When! (Score:1)
Re:Backlights (Score:1)
I think the questioner knows this. What they are saying is that with current display tech, the backlit ones eat prohibitively large amounts of battery for many applications (why the Gameboy kicked the Lynx and Game Gear all over the shop - it was the only one that didn't go through batteries at a rate of knots). Also, to quote them "Non-backlit look better in natural light than a backlit screen in optimal conditions ".
What the question here is is, while this OLED display is a great replacement for anything that uses a backlit display, does the LE part mean that it will use more power or look bad in comparison to a non-backlit normal display.
Re:A New Color Space! (Score:1)
Now, I'm naive enough that I may have just been trolled about that 4th primary colour gag, but am I right in thinking you're referring to the fact that our current 24-bit colourspace doesn't allow for the vast range in possible brightness values in the real world? If so, then you'll need to speak to the graphics card and OS people as well as the monitor manufacturers here, surely?
Re:A New Color Space! (Score:1)
To bring this back on topic, as these OLEDs appear to be standard r,g,b triplets is there any chance that they would have this increased space?
What do they mean by organic? (Score:1)
So here goes:
What do they mean by organic? When I think organic I'm thinking living things like animals and plants. Are these organic light-emitting diodes coming from living things? How can they emit light? I see they're taking about carbon-based molecules. Is that what they mean by organic?
Can someone explain this to me?
OLEDS? Check out Organic Magnets!! (Score:3)
OLEDs and ClearType (Score:3)
Vaporous Article (Score:1)
Organic, its scary (Score:1)
About 5 years ago, I had a friend of mine working for this company maintaining there servers. One of the machines they has, was a Compaq. For about 6 months, they had non-stop read errors when trying to read there raid system. Compaq sent out ~20 techs to take a look at it, none of them where able to figure out what was failing. One day, my friends father was in there, and noticed one of the chips appear to be offset from the rest of the chips on the card. (SCSI raid card) They ended up figuring out that Compaq used an organic flux that wasn't wiped off properly. And started growing and walking away. Which was very odd.
My question is, will we see things like this with the OLCD panels ? Will our entry laptops start getting "fuzzy" after there 10 years old. Since its organic, are there possiable fugture health hazards ? Maybe I don't fully understand these displays, but it scares me either way :)
until (succeed) try { again(); }
Re:Vaporous Article--But Promising! (Score:1)
That's the main thing standing in the way of me buying one of these...I would save up my dough and blow it on a spanky new 22" LCD screen with a digital interface to go with that new GeForce3 card...Just as soon as there's a decent game that NEEDS the card, and as soon as that game doesn't look Like a blurry watercolor on the monitor if you choose to spin around!
It's a shame, but CRT's still win there...
Anyone know how Plasma is coming along?
The Chia monitor... (Score:1)
Re:Organic... What exacty does that mean? (Score:1)
So , the definition we get at school is: " any substance that contains the element carbon, with the exception of carbon dioxide and various carbonates".
but I suspect any meeting of chemists could quibble about the boundary for years...
Re:Organic... What exacty does that mean? (Score:1)
Re:What do they mean by organic? (Score:2)
Some organic polymers exhibit semi-conducting properties. Simple OLEDs are manufactured by sandwiching an appropriate polymer layer between two (transparant) electrodes.
Re:Separate transistors? (Score:1)
Re:Organics Rock! (Score:1)
Toshiba makes 'em (Score:2)
"One of the world's major manufacturers of LCDs, Toshiba announced on Wednesday its first prototype of a polymer OLED display that supports 260,000 colors. The 2.85-inch display is targeted for production in portable devices, such as cell phones and handheld computers, in April 2002."
Re:When! (Score:1)
Refresh rate (Score:2)
Deja vu... (Score:4)
I just can't help myself
I'm feeling like I'm going out of my head
Uncanny, Strange Deja Vu
But I don't mind- I hope to find the truth
Now where did I see this before? Oh yes, here [slashdot.org] and here [slashdot.org].
Separate transistors? (Score:1)
Also, the charge controlling each pixel is insulated from that of its neighbours, so pixels do not interfere with one another. Doesn't this imply that each pixel will still have to have a separate transistor? I thought that was what made LCDs so difficult to manufacture in large sizes. Are they hoping that by not having to use a transparent substrate, the fabrication will be simplified?
Re:Backlights (Score:2)
I brought up an interesting problem with LCDs that despite all of our technical advances still needs to be solved. I thought readers might take interest. Guess not.
Backlights (Score:3)
From the article it seems like OLED is for backlight-only type devices (since they emit light) so maybe we'll have to wait for the next train before this problem is solved.
-Justin
Obligatory Links Department (Score:1)
I posted this last time we had an OLED article, but for those who missed it:
Kodak has been working on OLED for a while... [kodak.com]
I can double the life at a stroke (Score:1)
One of the manufacturers also has a white OLED so you don't need to mix in blue to get white.
If you can do the resolution and don't mind the complexity. Why not have loads of different colours (a complete rainbow) in the display, then when you burn out a native colour, just sythesize it from others. (OK so its a dumbass idea, I was just shooting the breeze).
how hard is this: (Score:1)
The Lottery:
Re:how hard is this: (Score:2)
Or will you need to drive them in a different way? More power? Less power? etc?
The Lottery:
So, they're plastic like Indiglo, right? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Millitary using these (Score:1)
Re:Now no-one can ... (Score:1)
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Re:When! (Score:1)
Re:Vaporous Article (Score:1)
Granted though that it probably isn't finished as a sellable product yet. There's always a lot of work to be done between prototype and market..
Personally I'll wait until the second or third generation before I get me a 50" OLED-monitor to hang on the wall. By then the quality has gone up and the price has come down...
Organic... What exacty does that mean? (Score:2)
If this article uses the first definition, it think you should have a look at the Philips [philips.com] homepage. There's a piece about their PolyLED [philips.com] (Polymer Light Emitting Diodes) displays.
Organic? What next? (Score:1)
So when can we expect genetically modified screens? They can't be far behind...
Further Reading (Score:3)
You can find additional info about OLED here [macworld.com] and here [dpreview.com]. They said: OLED production is currently 20% more expensive than LCD (!). But if a "highly productive" fabrication can ramp up, it will cut the cost.
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
Organic... (Score:2)
organic (ôr-gnk)
adj.
7. Chemistry. Of or designating carbon compounds.
Whew, what a relief. Confusion with Definition 1: (Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms: organic matter.) gets me thinking that I'd have to water or feed my monitor!
Maybe I can gather about 500 fireflies and create a old Burroghs Green screen terminal...
Does anyone have a link to the actual process?
Process Info, answering my own Question. (Score:5)
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
Re:Organics Rock! (Score:1)
If its perfect, you'll see manufacturers rolling out LCDs like toilet paper.
I think these factories should mass produce the OLED and make it a disposable item. When the light goes dim, roll it up and put in a new one.
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
But to provide some meaningful dialog....One of the previous articles on this topic mentioned the future possibility of creating a display screen by ink-jetting the organic dyes onto paper or some other flexible substrate. If they really found a low-cost way to do this, and you could buy a new "screen" at, say, the price of a cell-phone rechargeable battery, would the lower lifetime matter as much? You could just buy a new screen ever 2 - 3 months. Not that I advocate this as a "totally acceptable" fix, but I was curious as to how others feel.
GreyPoopon
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Re:Separate transistors? (Score:1)
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This is cool I guess but... (Score:2)
I see the future... (Score:1)
Re:Blue color life expectancy??? (Score:1)
As a side note, have you noticed how hard the inkjet manufacturers fight the cheap refill market. You know, the kits that come with a bottle of ink and a syringe. I picked up a kit last night. For 2/3 the cost of a new HP45 black injet cartridge, I got the material to refill the one I had 5 times. The HP cartridge has a small metallic ball shoved into a syllicon lined hole to seal the ink in, and the kit comes with a plug for the hole. Guess what? HP has changed the size of the hole so that the plugs don't fit. Coincidence? I had to file the head of a screw flat to make my own plug. (Take that HP!!)
Companies would love a 'monitor' that you had to replace once a year. It would do wonders for THEIR bottom line. Of course, this being a capitalist society, look for someone harping a solution on TV that will "extend the life" of your monitor by converting the color blue to a mixture of red and green.
Re:When! (Score:1)
Actaully the Blue LED problem has been recently solved by a scientist in Japan. details are here [interesting-people.org] and here [atip.org]. These are the same document, the second is just pre tagged text.
A New Color Space (Score:1)
Todo, I don't think we're in kansas any more.
LED's may not provide negative green light or the fourth primary color, but they will definately introduce a much larger colorspace and every jpg, bmp, gif image etc. is going to be caught with its bits down.
Cave dweller's never fear - your shadows are safe here, just wear these glasses and you'll be safe. Take off the shades though and you're looking at a horse of a very different color.
This colorspace is important because it's the first major incompatability/split on the display/print side. Previously colorspace was an problem only for publishers because paper, LCD, and CRT all have a roughly compatable colorspace. Not so LED.
Some of us will expect to see a difference between the fire and the fire engine.
Back to Black (Score:1)
Need I say more?
A New Color Space! (Score:4)
When transistors and thus portable AM radios arrived, music mixes were carefully tailored to sound good through tiny speakers and narrow bandwidth transmission. Likewise almost all of the images we see on computers today have been tailored to look good on the inferior bandwidth or colorspace of the crt. Thus we have aquired the sloppy habit of throwing out all the information that we cannot currently display and/or using software which does.both film and digital cameras record colors outside the range of the crt
When the audio CD format was developed, it was designed to embrace the human ear (5 - 22,000 Hz) even though very few systems can achieve this range. Perhaps now we will see wide-spread adoption of human-centric images (i.e. Web browsers which can open PhotoCD files into the colorspace of the attached display.) Be it a greyscale WAP (for "What A Phony"), CRT, or FullColor (LED).
Re:Further Reading (Score:1)
Right...just like anything else, as soon as economies of scale kick in, the price drops. 17" CRTs just a few years ago were over $1000, but now that they're pretty much standard equipment, you can pick one up for $200 or sometimes even less.
LCD displays have been coming down in price as well...retail desktop units used to be well over $2000 and now you can get them from under $1000. The same will happen with portable OLED displays.
Re:Process Info, answering my own Question. (Score:1)
Good Times Virus (Score:4)
It will be critical for desktop technicians to carry plenty of clean needles.
Prototype using non-vacuum ink-jet technology (Score:1)
Machinefabriek Verborg - Machinebouw [verborg.mbit.nl]
Re:Further Reading (Score:1)
--Kevin