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Handhelds Hardware

Palm Teases With Slim, Pretty New Models 157

Posted by timothy from the this-year's-model dept.
stylewagon writes: "Yup, the 2 new Palm models were released today -- right on time. Palm's website has just been updated with all the info about them -- the new mono m500 and the colour m505. Both feature the new Palm Os4.0, expansion slots and (finally!) have a USB cradle (a la Handspring)" Well, they haven't actually been released -- the CNET article uses that old standby "unveiled" instead, but Palm says they'll be out mid- to late spring, in all their Secure Digital Expansion New Perfect World glory.
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Palm Teases With Slim, Pretty New Models More

Palm Teases With Slim, Pretty New Models

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  • but...but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    wheres my YOPY? :( They look so cute and promising... and altho the web site (yopy.com) has lots of graphics, i see nothing on actually BUYING it :((the site also seems incomplete/unfinished)
  • BUT -- I saw the top-o-the-line iPAQ the other day w/ the wireless modem add-on, and, frankly, I'm impressed. First off, it's color & sleek (m505/Visor Prism matches it there), it's got a PCMCIA (or whatever they call it these days) expansion module, which means the wireless modem can also work on my laptop

    And you can run Linux [handhelds.org]/ARM on it, with XFree86. That plus a 1GB IBM Microdrive [ibm.com] is a good thing.

  • Yeah, unless you need a PDA today. They're incredibly useful regardless of whether they have an upgrade path. I would still be happy with my two year old Palm III if it hadn't gotten busted.

  • I have a Palm Vx, and I can happily run it 1-2 weeks on a charge (varies depending on usage pattern). You don't _have_ to charge it every day, but it's easy to do, since the HotSync cradle charges the battery as well.
    _____
  • 505 HTTP Version Not Supported
    The server does not support, or refuses to support, the HTTP protocol version that was used in the request message. The server is indicating that it is unable or unwilling to complete the request using the same major version as the client, as described in section 3.1, other than with this error message. The response SHOULD contain an entity describing why that version is not supported and what other protocols are supported by that server.
  • The peripherals you list connect to the "new Universal Connector" (aka the hot sync port at the bottom), NOT to the card slot.

    --
  • Actually, there needs to be a "Read the fucking article" catergory.

    The article covered his concerns quite well.
  • From the article:

    Both units use the same 160 pixel-by-pixel screen that has been on earlier models rather than the more dense screen that will be part of Sony's new Clie. The Sony unit, which will be launched first in Japan, has a 320-pixel by 320-pixel color screen and is also the first Palm-based handheld that can play digital audio files.
  • > I have a palm V which I've had for maybe 18 months, as you say using and charging it every day.

    I don't want to have to charge it every day.

    How long will a full charge last you? A couple of days of use? If it reliably lasts a week of heavy use, then maybe it would be servicable for what I want. Still, I like the ability to roam with my palm, and not have to worry about where to plug it in at night. That is why I chose my IIIe over the V. AAA's last months, and can be purchased cheaply anywhere I'm likely to go. And for the case where I can't buy AAA's (say...camping), I can pack an extra pair in less room than a charger would take, and again I won't need a plug.

    To me, the only downside of using AAA's is that it makes for a thicker Palm. I wish someone would up and define a new thin, flat battery standard so that I could still use alkaline's in something thinner than a AAA.

    As for the new palms...I'm glad they are moving to USB, but I'm a bit suspicious of this new port. I would appreciate being able to view big ebooks on my palm, but I resist the move towards copy control. We'll see how open it turns out. They way things are going, I'm not terribly optimistic.

    --Lenny
  • Handsprings attempt is very nice and all that but you lose the good looks and the lightness.

    What's wrong with the Visor Edge? It is extreamly similar to the Palm V in size and weight (it does need the strap on expand-o-slot if you want to use a springbord though).

  • There's nothing about PalmOS v4.0 that inherently implies 160x160 only. A 320x320 device would work just fine with OS 4. The thing about screen doubling is that it's necessary to make sure old apps run correctly. New apps could be written to take explicit advantage of a bigger display.

    Also, apps do not run off of SD unfortunately. They are copied to main memory, run, and then put back.
  • Of course they won't. This isn't new. Try running apps written for the III or V on older models.
  • The security changes are twofold.

    1) They modified the debugging engine to respect the lock settings, so you can't get into debug mode from the password prompt when the device is locked, and debugging by soft resetting while holding down doesn't work in a lock mode either. If your device is locked, the only way to unlock is to enter the password or do a hard reset.

    2) You can now enter your password on the screen where you want to see your private data to unlock for that programs duration.

    There is no on-device encryption. Privacy is still done using a flag on the record.
  • Every telecom has delayed or placed on "indertiminate" stutus their 3G roll-outs, even NTT. At this point in spite of all of the billions recently invested in licenses 3G is not going to be seen until at least 2003/2004.

    Furthermore 2.5 stands to steal much of 3's thunder at a lower cost & with less disruption. Thus it's entirely poosible that 3G will be still-born. Indeed with a number of new LEO space-based technologies being developed it's entirely possble 3G may be completely leapfrogged.

    Thus your question may be entirely moot. In any case it's at least less timely then would have been a few months ago when 3G was assumed to be the 'next big thing'.

  • EPOC 6.0 & 3G competition (Score:3)

    by MikeCamel ( 6264 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @05:23AM (#354463) Homepage
    The question will be, I suspect, how well Palm OS variants react to the competition that's going to arise from EPOC 6.0 and what the take-up will be of the OS in the new 3G devices. The mobile providers have invested so much in buying the new licenses that they have to make the applications work, so if Palm lags behind the EPOC folks, then it's the EPOC apps which are going to get the development money.
  • If they aren't providing an upgrade from 3.x devices, then I would hope that OS 4.0 apps are binary compatible with the old 3.x OS.

    In general, applications developed against the 4.0 SDK can work on older Palm's - even palms as old as 2.0 - provided that the programmer does not use API calls that only exist in PalmOS 4.0.

    Apps that I have developed run on any OS from 2.0 up. If I want to take advantage of newer API features, I use run-time OS version checks before using that feature, and either work around the missing feature in the older OS, or don't provide the functionality that requires the newer API.

    This requires some discipline on the part of the programmer, and you will see applications that won't run on older versions of PalmOS, if those applications use 4.0 API calls. Of all of the OSes that I have programmed against, PalmOS actually seems to provide the best compatibility for newer software running on older devices.
  • So is there any way (expansion or otherwise) to get palms to play decent quality audio?

  • I thought about getting an OmniSky modem for my Vx. Then I thought, Maybe I can plug my Vx into my cell phone? And you know what? I can. For the price of a $60 cable, I can surf the web (via AvantGo, anyway) and send & recieve e-mail. And with SprintPCS, you pay $10 extra per month and get to use your "plan minutes" for data connections (which normally cost extra -- why? because they can :))

    And even if I exceed my plan minutes, I expect I'd have to exceed 'em by a whole lot, every month, to make the $200 + $40/month attractive compared to $60 + $10/month.

    Just my $0.02.
  • I've used a hard case [palm.com] (also available at Best Buy) as long as I've owned my Vx (since Jan 2000), and it's never turned on in my pocket.

    My only gripe about the hard case is I have to take my Vx out of the case to use my nifty-neat new portable keyboard. I'm seriously considering cutting the bottom half off the back panel. I've also suggested to Palm that they market one "pre cut". We'll see.
  • Go to palmgear.com [palmgear.com] and search for web browser [palmgear.com] and you'll find one or two.
  • Yeah, copy control sucks, but it's a fact of life that companies developing media these days are gonna do it

    TRG [trgpro.com] (now HandEra) has been offering a Palm device (TRG Pro) for over a year now that has a compact flash slot, 8MB of ram, and 2mb of flash ram. It is the same form factor as the Palm III, which while not as slim as the PalmV series is still very portable. TRG also typically has OS updates available and ready to be flashed even before palm.

    TRG has also been leading the pack in terms of software that does the necessary swapping behind the scenes to make the compact flash expansion appear to be transparently available to palm applications.

    Bill (happy owner)...
  • > The Palm expansion slot supports MMC and SD which includes SDIO cards. There isn't anything
    > available yet, but is capable of everything the springboard slot is in a much smaller package.

    Yeah, nice in theory. In practice, we don't even have 802.11b CF cards yet, which are much bulkier, let along SD form factor ones. No need to hold your breath there.
  • I disagree... when I bought my Psion 5, I tried out a series 3 at the same time. The keys on the series 3 keyboard were far too small, and it didn't feel like a proper keyboard.

    On my series 5, I can touchtype .. not quite as fast as on an ordinary keyboard, but still fast enough. I couldn't do this on the series 3 or the siena that I tried.

    I haven't had the chance to play with a revo, but the whole device looks far too small to be much good for quick typing.

    </$0.02>

  • I cannot see the worth of an IBM microdrive in a Palm - no Palm generates the amount of data that would require one of these, to be honest.

    Wasn't there some guy named Gates who said something similar about RAM? 640 something ...

    Steve M

  • Odds are, they're will be a connector which will convert a m500 connector into one compatable with your line of Palms, a company, not sure what they're called made such a connector for the m100.

    ---

  • I've been happy with StayOffHack, from http://www.rgps.com/ [rgps.com]. I've used it on both my Palm III and my Symbol SPT-1740. I ass/u/me it works okay on the Vx as well.


    Chelloveck

  • Palm's website doesn't tell me the most important thing -- Have they improved the screen resolution yet? Since there's no mention of it I assume not. If they've gone to a double-res screen (360x360, like the Sony Clie) as well as color I'll almost certainly buy it! If not, well... It looks nice, by my old Palm III continues to serve me well enough.


    Chelloveck
  • That's not really true, the visor prism hasn't been out for two years, so you can't cut them up too much for only having 256 colour until now, they did get the 256 colour before Hanspring had any colour.

    I do like the prices of those palm memory modules. (49.99 for 16 Megs!)
  • Get a hard case that doesn't touch the button.
  • so do I, its great, except that the tab key doesn't work (any ideas on that) and i'm afraid it's a tad fragile maybe.
  • thanks... I feel dumb now, but at least, in my defense, I got it without a manual (display item)
  • And when I bought it they said I'd get upgrades. I also have 8 megs on my palm, so they really should make it available!
  • Other people sort of posted replies about this, but no-one was explicit enough it seems - As far as I can tell SD is a totally different standard from SDMI. SD is just for cards with a certain amount of storage, rather like a compact-flash card. Now they might include an MP3 playing add-on that would support SDMI, but there's also no reason someone couldn't make a card to hold and play .ogg files as well.

  • Argh. I shoulda hit the preview button. Please mod this down. And if someone can help me get past the lameness filters I'll try to post it as plain text. Every time I try it rejects it because of "junk characters" or something.

  • Nice, but... (Score:4)

    by kennylives ( 27274 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @05:41AM (#354483) Journal

    I have 2 problems with it...

    1. It looks to use a completely new connector on the edge, so I'd have to give up the 2 cradles, the travel kit, the folding keyboard (how cool) and the wireless modem.

    2. I notice that the little cardslot in the top of the thing is a. Proprietary in the extreme, and b. Supports SDMI, to which I object because it works with the basic assumption that everyone using digital technology to store music, ebooks, etc. are thieves and are not to be trusted.

    This is (in a way) Palm's answer to Sony w/ MemoryStick. But why should I (we) support yet another proprietary, crippled, (no doubt) tightly controlled, and more expensive memory technology?

  • The one thing that really bothers me about my Visor is that most of the expansion modules are ridiculously expensive. The Palm expansion modules look pretty cheap in comparison:

    16 MB memory card - $50 for the Palm, $139 for the Visor
    Dictionary - $40 for the Palm (including Thesaurus), $50 for the Visor

    Some of the modules for the Visor were even more ridiculous. $259 for an MP3 player [handspring.com]? Come on.
  • Am I the only one that thinks that Palm Pilot sound like a rude epithet?
  • There was a quick update they did when the IIIc came out that included some new functionality. Neat of them, but unlike any previous update, they decided that if you needed the 'features' you had to pay $20 for the new version.

    Not exactly giving me an upgrade (or a reason to stick with Palm instead of going to a Jornada/iPaq running Linux... both of which I expect in the near future).

  • If you want a Palm PDA that can read mem-cards now, check out the one from TRG-Pro [trgpro.com] (basically a PalmIIx with a CF slot).

    Personally, I'm going to probably wait until my Palm IIIx bites the dust and then move to an iPaq or Jornada running Linux (they are way sweet) so I can understand your feelings. I keep trying to justify it to myself now, but until they stabalize more (heck, my desktop can last 2-3 years without feeling outdated, and I still use my model from 5 years ago without too much problems) I don't see anything wrong with what works.
  • There needs to be a "WRONG" moderation category.
    While he's correct that it does have a new connector (and this will at least temporarily prevent me from using all of the Palm accessories I have that work for my Palm V and the ones that I had for my PalmPilot before), there really isn't a way to get around this and add support for newer things like USB. There were adapters to let you use your old PalmPilot/PalmIII style accessories (e.g. PalmDock [palmdock.com] and The Bridge [devian.com]). Palm claims that the new connector supports both USB and serial connections. Perhaps a similar solution will be forthcoming?

    Regarding the card slot, Secure Digital is an open standard for memory cards, it's not particularly popular yet. Check out the SD Card Association [sdcard.org] for more details.

  • What do you mean? Psion S5 and S5mx have been the only PDAs so far with a real working keyboard.


    --

  • Read the manual. To insert a tab, try the Fn + Tab combination. I whipped out the manual to figure that out :)
  • I'm a developer and I have to synch various models all the time. If you have to deal with more than one, just get an IR port to reduce clutter on your desk, and put the charging cradles out of the way.
  • Yes, there's a color version of Sim City. Check it out here [palmgear.com].
  • The M500 compare more with the Visor Platinum or the upcoming Edge than the Deluxe. Yes, the M505 does basically everything the Prism does, but has a faster processor and is in a much smaller package.
  • The thing about the Edge is you need to add the sleeve for Springboard support, which makes the device quite bulky.

    The Palm expansion slot supports MMC and SD which includes SDIO cards. There isn't anything available yet, but is capable of everything the springboard slot is in a much smaller package.

  • No, it's not the smaller M100 screen.
  • Plus a faster processor, expansion slot, and color screen all at the same cost.

  • I think that PalmOS 4 uses more than 2 MB of flash memory on the device, so the device has to include over 2MB of flash - say 4 MB, in order to use POS4. As all previous Palms only had 2MB flash for the OS, they are unable to take advantage of Palm OS4. I am sure that Palm will release a Palm OS 3.6 with necessary upgrades however.

    Also, the Palm is not a computer. It is a PDA. If I bought a filofax(tm), then why would I expect to get extra filofax(tm) components for free? You pay for them. You bought a Palm that did X, you didn't buy a Palm that you thought might do Y in the future - that is a stupid policy!
  • As the linked website says - "Palm OS 4.0 is backwards compatible. Most of your applications will work as always. ".

    Read links before blurting all over Slashdot :-)

    And for the guy with the Palm turning on problem in his pocket (ooh er missus!) the new Palm has mroe security features that might help this. Slightly.
  • So how do you feel about the new Clie and the new m500 and m505?

    The new Palms have a 'standard' SD/MMC slot for which a tonne of devices will be made by a multitude of companies.

    The Palm m50X has an improved calendar, and includes software to let you work on Excel worksheets, an image viewer and more security features. They also have a proper USB cradle at last.

    Does anyone know the horsepower of the new Palms? Why can't Motorola just go and make a 66MHz DragonBall at 0.25u or something? That would make the Palm range even better.
  • 1. that SDMI slot looks evil

    Well for a standard well supported small form factor expansion system, it is a lot better than MemoryStick.

    Face it, new forms of media that do not have the ability to protect content are not going to ever get popular these days. The capabilities of SD/MMC are vast, and if you don't want to use it, then don't use it! The format will succeed anyway, with or without your support. And the cards look cute.

    2. USB connectivity is proprietary

    Palm deserve a slap for that one. It will get reverse engineered at some point I am sure - why don't they just release the information to get greater support for the device?

  • 1) Smartmedia cards are _slow_, and 3x as big as the SD-Card in the new Palm, although a little thinner. It is coming to the end of its lifespan now. Also only usable as a memory expansion.
    2) CompactFlash cards are faster than Smartmedia, but the same size, and a lot fatter. That would affect the Palm m50x a lot, as these are meant to be slim devices.
    3) You might as well use the same media between all of your devices, and use one that is well supported and that most users will buy anyway.
    4) MemoryStick is a Sony proprietary technology. SD isn't.
    5) There is no comparable libre technology, at least none that don't have some disadvantage or another.
    6) Logical Conclusion: SD

    SD provides a flexible expansion option. It isn't just storage, it can do digital cameras, modems, fingerprint scanners, games on ROM, wireless, etc. Pretty much like memorystick.

    I cannot see the worth of an IBM microdrive in a Palm - no Palm generates the amount of data that would require one of these, to be honest. Store 1billion appointments. Great. In a Psion or a WinCE device, yes - but these are more like mini-laptops that PDAs.
  • It just can't compete with the existing Palm software library - thousands of applications to do practically anything you want.

    Shame really - this looks like a reasonable machine. The processor is a little weak (66MHz MIPs is marginally better than a 33MHz Dragonball), the screen is 160x240, when 240x320 would be better, and the interface is clunky to say the least.

    I hope it doesn't use some cut down version of X for its display either. That would blow seriously. A native display would be fine though.

    Anyway, the current Palms are the last of the (very) old generation. The new generation (ARM CPU, etc) will be coming out next year. These will most likely have better screens in a format that users have demanded - probably 240x240, 240x320, 320x320 or 320x480 even. It will still be the old greyscale and colour screens though. From the low end m120 and m125, the m320 and m325,the m520 and m525, the m720 and m725 etc, will be the ARM based PalmOS 5 devices. These wil not cost more than the current Palms, due to cost reductions in having the new hardware instead of the legacy hardware. The top models will be able to emulate Dragonball Palms in near real time.

    m110, m115, m510, m515 etc will be speed bumps and OS upgrades for the existing Palm line in around 6 months time, when Motorola get a faster Dragonball out (40MHz and 50MHz versions). These will sport 160x160 screens, or 320x320 doubled screens like the Sony Clie.

    ALl the above is a pile of bollocks from the depths of my mind, but hey, it can't be that far wrong... Palm only uses a 160x160 screen now because that was practically the best you could have in 1995 when the first Palm devices came out.
  • All of the Palm devices are way overpriced for their hardware - however software is the key, and is what differentiates the Palm from the WinCEs and others.

    However, new hardware from other companies is appearing. The Franklin eBookman looks pretty good for a PDA sizes device, and there is a larger device called the myebook.

    eBookman: 240x200 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, 32-bit, custom OS, free development kit runs under Linux, USB connector to PC, MMC slot, slim, etc etc.

    myebook: 480x400 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, etc.

    All that is required is for a critical movement to get behind one of these devices, which both make the Palm look stupid. The eBookman looks like a sure fire hit. Twice as much screen estate as the Palm, about the same size, slim, good feature set, and DAMN CHEAP. Yes, $129 to $229.

    They just don't have the same following as the Palm, however it is new, and things will change for the better. With 8 or 16MB of RAM, lots of flash for the OS, an OS with real OS features (separate 1GB address spaces for apps, etc), this should appeal to the geek in every one of you.

  • Arrgh, none of the new models have user-replaceable batteries.. I have a Palm Pro which is on it's last legs, and I'm really apprehensive about getting a new unit that doesn't take external batteries. Maybe I'll get a IIIxe while they're on sale (really cheap now). See, I bought my Pro in 1995, and I've used it daily since then. (It's a USRobotics one, too :). I can't count the batteries I've gone through. Palm recently discontinuted almost ALL of the accessories for the pro, and you can't get the upgrade cards anymore. What would happen if it had an internal battery? I can tell you what would happen, I'd be paying $100 for a device that's not worth giving a way, and I'd be forced to buy a new one.

    Does anyone know if you can buy the internal batteries seperately for a stockpile? Yes, I know they're not user-replaceable, but neither are the capacitors in a TV - doesn't mean you can't do it :). Or have any third-party manufacturers taken up the case yet for the Palm V/Vx owners - I quick search of deja/googlenews indicates that there are a LOT of people waiting a long time to get batteries replaced, something inacceptable IMHO.

    Other than that.. *drool*.

  • Search dejanews and you'll see plenty of people who have batteries that won't hold a charge. Might be bad luck, though, who knows? I'd like to be able to replace it at whim, though. My cell phone - Startac w/slim liion - wouldn't hold a charge for more than a single phone call after a year. New battery solved that problem.

  • As always, Palm is playing on their strong points.The need to have a 200MHz cpu or 32 MB ram is less urgent.

    I read that Palm is working with Motorola to get them to incorporate an <a href="http://www.electronicnews.com/news/5708-346N ewsDetail.asp"> ARM core </a> into their handheld cpus, so they can move past the 33MHz Dragonball, but that is evidently for the future. There is no mention of the CPU used in the M505.

    They mention a "long life" battery, but not how long the life is. That's an important convenience point. They do have it charge in the cradle, which helps a lot.

    64K colors, good. MGI photosuite? Interesting. does this mean you can retouch photos on the go?

    All in all, a great product, and the price is not too bad, although I'll have to stick with my IIIe for a while longer.

  • Why I Got a Visor Platinum (Score:3)

    by wbb4 ( 60942 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @06:02AM (#354507)
    First off, the m505 looks quite nice, color display, and all, but there are a couple of reasons I just got a Visor Plantium rather than a Palm.

    First let me say that I had a Palm IIIx (I broke the display badly on) and I liked it. PalmOS is, IMHO, much better than WinCE/PocketPC/whatever it will be tomorrow. I needed a replacement for my Palm, and started looking around.

    I want a Personal Digital Assistant, not a handheld desktop as many CE devices try to be. The only CE device that really stands out is the iPaq.

    I looked hard at the Palm Vx. Its sleek, looks good, and all that asthetic nonesense :). Its got 8MB of memory and all that. Overall a very nice PDA that I would buy in a second.

    I also looked at the Sony CLIE. Its a very nice little device also, but compared to Palm and Handspring's offerings, its a little too expensive for what it offers.

    The Visor has the lure of the Springboard. A lot of people will argue that (1) Springboard modules are too expensive, (2) There aren't enough out there to justify the Visor over anything else, and (3) The OS isn't upgradable. The Platinum is about the size of the Palm III, is comparable to the Vx only with a little more horsepower (33Mhz Dragonball). The Visor Prism would be nice, but I just don't have a need for color right now.

    The Platinum being almost identical to the Palm III* and Vx (physical dimensions aside, Im not picky there), there are only a few things that do stand out: (1) Springboard: I like the idea and I like a couple of the modules, (2) Datebook+: Anyone whos used it or seen it used would agree, it is a bit nicer than Datebook, (3) USB Cradle: Anyone whos had a Palm knows how slow serial is, (4) Faster Processor: It may not sound much to have a faster processor in a PDA, but it really makes a world of difference.

    I chose a Visor Platinum because it seems to offer a bit more for me than the Palm III* and V*, even though the V* does have a better asthetic feel. I don't really mind not being able to upgrade the OS, especially since 4.0 doesn't seem to offer much more to me.

    No flame war intended, just my US$0.02 on why I got a Plantium.
  • If they aren't providing an upgrade from 3.x devices, then I would hope that OS 4.0 apps are binary compatible with the old 3.x OS. If they arent... I'd seriously reconsider any future PalmOS based products.
    treke
  • The 2 megs probably refers to the size of the Flash ROM that the Operating system is stored in, not the RAM available to the user.
    treke
  • That's a good thing to know.
    treke
  • I did read the link. The "Most of your applications will work as always." seems to imply that 4.0 will run 3.x and 2.x apps, not the other way around.
    treke
  • You can sign an NDA and get the OS source, but if all you want is the datebook, Palm makes that source freely available as part of the SDK samples. If you download the Prc-Tools and get the SDK you'll get the source for datebook.
  • I'd be very happy if you could tell me where you got the OS4 ?
  • If you are interested in the m500, you really
    should take a look at the Franklin Ebookman at
    www.franklin.com

    a) its available today,
    b) more memory
    c) EB-911 is $170 cheaper
    d) bigger screen
    e) open platform

    Disclaimer - I'm working on a few apps for the
    ebookman, but then so can anybody, check their site.
  • Awesome! Tell me tell me tell me....you say there are several but you didn't say which ones....I want! OmniSky native browser (web clipping) sucks balls.....

    nlh

  • I have to say, the heating up of the PDA wars is definitely getting interesting (Palm vs. Handspring vs. iPAQ), but I have to say the most intriguing part of this whole battle, to me, is the emergence (and advances) of wireless Interet access.

    I currently have a Handspring Visor w/ OmniSky [omnisky.com] and am, for the most part, loving it. I think getting email and news while beyond the reach of my notebook/desktop is extremely cool.

    BUT -- I saw the top-o-the-line iPAQ the other day w/ the wireless modem add-on, and, frankly, I'm impressed. First off, it's color & sleek (m505/Visor Prism matches it there), it's got a PCMCIA (or whatever they call it these days) expansion module, which means the wireless modem can also work on my laptop, and thirdly (and this is the most impressive part to me), it's got a FULL web browser built-in.

    I've always been as anti-WinCE/Pocket-PC as one can get, but the fact that I browse full color, full-graphics, and full-text web pages (well, for the most part) on a palm-sized device is totally cool. I know this technology will improve, but PocketPC's definitley got the lead right now.

    My question is how are these new Palms going to handle the whole net access question? I have high hopes -- there seems to be mention [palm.com] of the "Wireless Access Software", but that doesn't seem to be more than the 'ol IR-to-cellphone gig.

    I'm waiting to see what kind of wireless modems are available for these devices, and what kind of web browsers will go along with them. If the modems are like the current Minstrels (i.e. tiny expansion slot but a modem that >doubles the overall size of the unit -- LAME), I'm going to have to keep waiting....:(

    nlh

  • Before you buy one, take a look at one that's been left out in one of the stores - All the ones that I've seen are blown apart, have broken keys, snapped hinges.

    If you think you might EVER drop your keyboard/bookbag, you might want to look at the GoType keyboards, which are larger, but MUCH sturdier.
  • Thank you, I meant to add that but my lunch break was running out. :P

    On a side note, I'd really like to see more people supporting TRG if for no other reason than so that they can continue a line of handhelds that don't suffer from braindead marketing... like a few others out there do.

  • A better Palm? Methinks not... (Score:4)

    by Eil ( 82413 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @10:47AM (#354520) Homepage Journal

    Umm... well, so far I don't see anything innovative about either of these. The only new features seem to be:

    1. PalmOS 4.0 - Okay, I wouldn't mind playing with it maybe, but it looks to perform exactly the same as 3.x.x.

    2. MultiMediaCard Expansion Card Slot - Yay, just what we need, more proprietary expansion ports! Palm made a mistake by not supporting an expansion slot in their ealier models but do they really have to screw consumers like this?

    The one true PalmOS device, in my opinion, is the TRGpro. I own one and I have to say that for the price, it beats the pants off any monochome Palm or Visor to date. It's basically a PalmIIIx, except it's got an industry standard Compact Flash slot. You can plug in modems, serial cards, barcodes, anything! It uses the same memory cards (up to 1GB with the IBM Microdrive) as a lot of digital cameras.

    I remember when Palm used to innovate.
  • And an "upgrade" for the OS of my Palm V that cost me $20 and which was necessary for the proper working of the device. And no Linux installer for same. Fortunately I have an NT partition on my work machine and was able to do the install there.

    I'll keep this V for as long as it lasts, but Hell will freeze over before I buy another Palm. My next PDA will be one of the Linux devices on the market.

  • On my Palm, it would not power on when an alarm went off. I turn it on two days later and get alarms for the past 2 days.

    It was also losing huge gobs of time and the digitizer kept "wandering" on me, so I'd tap on an icon and the palm would appear to register the tap a quarter inch to the left. All that stopped after I installed the $20 OS upgrade.

  • Palm USB + Linux = poop (Score:3)

    by molo ( 94384 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @06:26AM (#354528) Journal
    I *just* bought a Vx last week, and even with these new ones, I'm not sorry I did. Couple reasons. 1. that SDMI slot looks evil. 2. USB connectivity is proprietary.

    That is, Palm (unlike Handspring) won't release the specs on the USB protocol they are using in their USB cradles. This was an issue with the later models of the Vx, as they also have USB cradles.

    In a nutshell: Currently, there is no way to connect a Palm-brand PalmOS device with a USB connector with Linux. Sucks.
  • Every telecom has delayed or placed on "indertiminate" stutus their 3G roll-outs, even NTT. At this point in spite of all of the billions recently invested in licenses 3G is not going to be seen until at least 2003/2004.

    Bzzt -- NTT DoCoMo is still set on rolling out 3G in the Tokyo metro area on May 2001, as scheduled earlier. And it recently announced plans to bring *4G* systems online in 2006...!

    Furthermore 2.5 stands to steal much of 3's thunder at a lower cost & with less disruption. Thus it's entirely poosible that 3G will be still-born. Indeed with a number of new LEO space-based technologies being developed it's entirely possble 3G may be completely leapfrogged.

    Japan has already had "2.5G" for several years, in the form of the packet-switched i-mode network (which is what GPRS essentially attempts to duplicate). The difference between GPRS and 3G is sheer bandwidth, and I am very much looking forward to seeing what can be done with 384 kbps...

    Cheers,
    -j.

  • The problem for me -- they broke compatibility with the Vx ... that means I have to buy a new wallet case, a new gps unit AND a new hardcase, new write-rights ... that all comes out to about 200$ worth of extras, which makes the total cost of an upgrade 450 + 220$... too expensive to do for no reason :)

    But must one realize, thats how they make their money! They make profit on the units, but not nearly as much as selling an aluminum case for 40$! A serial cable for 30$! A stylus for 20$.

    Lastly, I don't care if it weighs 10 pounds, it has to be thinnnnnnn. Thin means it fits in a wallet case, thin means its not a burden to carry.

  • As far as 1: The plan is they're going to make the new connector common across most or all their future models: Meaning model 500 accessories (wireless modems, cradles, GPS units, etc.) will also work with model 700 or 800 or whatever.

    2: SD isn't nearly as proprietary as Memory Stick - there are, for instance, companies besides Palm selling SD and MMC cards, and companies besides Palm selling devices that use SD/MMC cards. For instance, the 64MB Panasonic SD card and USB adaptor I ordered last week. Yeah, copy control sucks, but it's a fact of life that companies developing media these days are gonna do it.

    Why support another new technology? How's this: better transfer rates, smaller size, promise of a hell of a lot of nice I/O toys in the future... sounds good to me.
  • in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in.

    You're referring to "Mask Records", as opposed to hiding or showing them. The newest version of TealLock (been out for at LEAST six months) fully supports that. My Vx locks and masks private records at 4AM daily.

    --
  • PalmOS 4.0 claims that it would have "enchanced security - Put an automatic lock on your handheld ..". Have they finally done something to PalmOS so that you get some REAL protection to the information in Palm or is this just "improved" version from the old password system [securityfocus.com]. If so, it would be nice to have that single feature as security upgrade to PalmOS 3.3 and PalmOS 3.5 Palms, since complete PalmOS upgrade seems to be history.

    Then again, if Palm doesn't consider it to be worthwhile to create security upgrade for old PalmOS versions, we can always use our money for one of those Linux or *BSD based PDAs, when its time to buy new PDA. With those, you have little bit more options regarding updates and such...

    P.S. Yes, I am aware of GNU Keyring for PalmOS [sourceforge.net] project, but it won't protect calendar and todo entries that I have in standard PalmOS applications.

  • Re:A better Palm? Methinks not... (Score:4)

    by shren ( 134692 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @12:31PM (#354543) Homepage Journal

    Here's your link:

    TRGpro [trgpro.com]

    If you want to take a look at this thing. I'm not a palm user myself, but I'd look at this first. Compatibility rules.


  • I have tried and tried to justify an upgrade, but my Palm III is still truckin' along with no end in sight.

    My wife got a III shortly after I did, a couple of years ago. We both became Palm junkies. Her III bit the dust and she's carrying a Visor now. My III is still fine. Maybe all my idle talk about upgrades scared it into behaving. :)

    When the time comes to upgrade I will seriously look at the Microsquish powered PDAs though... It would be nice to have a full color PDA that can read the CF memory cards from my digital camera.

  • Wow, the eBookman DOES look nice. And cheap. But it syncs to Windows only, according to the spec sheet. And even worse, it looks like it syncs to Outlook. I can't stand Outlook OR Outlook Express, and I don't want to use them as my contact manager.

    Currently I am a PalmOS user, and I like the way that Palm has a lightweight Windows client for searching/adding organizer events & contacts. On the Mac side it is even better, since they use a rebranded version of Claris Organizer. But Outlook... . Invasive bloatware. Ack. And even though I use Windows most of the time, I have Macs too and generally refuse to buy stuff like PDAs unless it works with both platforms.


  • The TRG is cool, but I am more interested in being able to preview/delete the giant color jpegs that my digicam produces. A color PDA would be good for this; the camera's LCD is too small to evaluate borderline images. And when you are away from a computer for a while, you need to prune the dud images from your camera's memory card to save space.

  • Why doesn't anyone make a decent PDA with a keyboard anymore? It seems style has been firmly placed in front of function.

    The last good PDA w/ keyboard was the Psion 3c, they lost the plot with the Psion 5/Revo, and all WinCE handhelds I've seen with keyboards have sucked.

    *Grumble*

  • SD Card accessories (Score:5)

    by rtos ( 179649 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @06:11AM (#354557) Homepage
    If you check out the press release [prnewswire.com], they list all kinds of SD Card accessories. Wireless ethernet, wireless modems, cameras, GPS, etc... MP3 players are noticably absent (although mp3 storage devices are listed). And SD Cards are not as obscenely proprietary as the Sony Memory Stick... at least it's a group of companies, rather than the Sony "I will make my own standard" approach. Also... Palms support both SD Cards and MMC.

    Still no word on screen resolution... I assume if they aren't touting 320x320, that means they are still at 160x160. Of course, that is all PalmOS 4.0 can handle is 160x160, anything higher (e.g. Sony Clie) uses some sort of pixel doubling or something.

    I emailed OmniSky [omnisky.com] last week to ask if they have support for the Palm505 yet. They said that they were not ready to announce any new support yet. But made it sound like they would. The link above lists Minstrel modems (the ones OmniSky uses) available in April 2001. So I assume shortly after the m505 hits shelves OmniSky will have full support. That gives users a full TCP/IP stack (afaik), modem for $199 with rebate, unlimited service for $39.95/month.

    The new vibrating/silent/audible alarms being built in is a nice touch.

    And it appears that applications will be able to be run directly off the SD Cards. That's a good thing too.

    Personally, I would like to order one, they sound great... but I'm just unsure of the life of this thing. If Palm is going to release a 320x320 device with a StrongARM processor next year, I may just wait. But for now, I'm planning on buying one when they hit store shelves.

  • Here is a link to the MultiMediaCard Association [mmca.org]. How are MultiMedia Cards different from CompactFlash [compactflash.org] or PCMCIA cards [pc-card.com]? Why are they necessary?

    Here is the devils Question: How is the MultiMediaCard a tool of the content providers to implant a technology to subvert fair-use rights and user freedom / How does the choice of MultiMediaCards & Secure Digital [sdcard.org] tie in?

    Sorry if I dont feel warm and fuzzy about Palm's adoption of a standard that will ultimately be the means to extend RIAA/MPAA/"Content Owners" rights while displacing my own as a private citizen... (Assumption of guilt built into technology required by collusive monopolies)

    And Further - why would i want to spend my money to buy this device if it entails adopting a technology that provides me zero benefit... and 'them' the real benefit (see afore mentioned 'Citizen-Fucking-Method(TM)')

    - OR - Am I being overly pessimistic about what 'Secure Digital' Could possibly mean...

  • but it's a fact of life that companies developing media these days are gonna do it.

    Only if people like you accept it and start buying the garbage - Id much prefer you tell other less clue full persons the true intent of SDMI etc and let this POS sit on the shelves like DIVX.

    This is something we do not need.

    For a more open device I suggest you all see the offerings from Compaq, Casio and HP... sure they have WindowsCE - but the hardware is terrific (memory/speed/sound/colour) and they havent collectively sold you out to the RIAA/MPAA/"Authorized Content Providers".

    The Geek Crowd are essentially first adopters (techno-fetishists) - we are also 'trend setters' because we are educated/aware of technologies - instead of running out and buying this, one of the first high-profile adoptions of SDMI, lets let the bastard device sit on the shelves, inform people, generate some anti-NeoPalm media (based on their adoption of this SD crap)...

    Basically: Don't buy one of these things

  • And a CF card is about twice as big - twice as big as 'damn small' is still small.

    Smart Media [pc-card.com] cards (PCMCIA PCCard - different form-factor) is about as thick as a dime and just slightly larger than a postage stamp ... why not use that?

    The MMC in these Palms are a SDMI delivery device - nothing else - it has no striking independent technological merit of its own that isnt available on a Libre implementation of the PC Card Standards... CF cards are a little bigger - but still unbelievably small -Do you think IBM Microdrives are too big? Wouldnt we all like a IBM Microdrive for our handheld devices.. it provides plenty of space for a few days worth of music/video/picture creation/enjoyment... a couple 96/128 MB CF cards will do the same... so tell me: Why MMCard? Lets be honest about the size issue -it really is irrelevant.

    TTBOMK

  • The Palm OS 4.0 page [palm.com] says that your Palm can now lock automatically when you turn it off. It just amazes me that it took them this long to implement just one of the many great features of TealLock [tealpoint.com]. I've been using TealLock for the last two and a half years and it has had that feature the whole time. Additionally, it can simply hide your "hidden" files automatically when you turn off your Palm - do you really need to lock your Palm each time you turn it off?

    Also, TealLock lets you simply use a shortcut to hide and show records while in any application (and the same applies to locking/unlocking), so you don't have to go into Palm Prefs, goto Security, choose "Show Records," and then return to the app you were in.

    It seems to me that Palm still has a ways to go before they implement this. I had been hoping that they would put this in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in. Palm should license the TealLock software, as it is clearly superior to any security software they produce.
  • Yes, their "Secure Digital" card is designed to support SDMI. Info is here. [palm.com] I say forget it. (Also I don't need to upgrade my existing Palm yet!)

    If you want MP3 support I guess you need to go to Handspring. [handspring.com] Which is fine by me.

  • Face it, new forms of media that do not have the ability to protect content are not going to ever get popular these days

    What are you talking about? The most popular "new form of media" to appear recently, and become popular, has to be CD-R - which doesn't involve copy protection. On the contrary copy protection is a formula for failure - e.g. Memory Stick. (Do you know anyone who uses it? I don't!)

  • Wow.. Whats the year again? Oh yeah, 2001 - That's the future isn't it? And palm is still sticking with the blocky 160x160 screen?!? *wow*.. I mean, my Amiga 500 worked great at the time, but its time to move on


    --------------------------------------
  • Look cool...

    Like a Titanium Powerbook?

    Sorry, that's beside the issue I wanted to reply to =)

    As per horrid gaming boxes; they have a faster processor, more memory, and higher resolution than a comparable (though cheaper) Gameboy Color.

    Those things have been successful for 11 years now, so I don't think it's fair to say that a Visor or Palm makes a 'horrid' game box.

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]
  • Actually, in comparison, the Edge is 0.1oz lighter than the m500 or m505, 0.06in thinner, but 0.2in taller, with the same memory and screen size (lacking only color)

    Sorry for the horridly constructed sentence structure. Edge doesn't get Palm OS 4.0, but compensates with a non-sdmi expansion slot and hitting the same price point.

    Anyway, I think you're right, people will pay some more for style and flair. Look at the Titanium Powerbook!


    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]

  • Finally, a reason to get a palm (Score:3)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @05:25AM (#354570)
    Firstly, goddammit!

    • 2001-03-19 10:19:06 Palm finally announces m505 (articles,pilot) (rejected)

    Right, now I've got that off my chest. Heres what I want to say.

    The m505 is possibly the greatest move palm have done so far. The Vx was (and still is) one of the best organisors they've released. Yes its horribly expensive but it looks good, has good specs (for a palm) and is light.

    Handsprings attempt is very nice and all that but you lose the good looks and the lightness. Now we have a colour pda thats only 0.9 oz heaver than the Vx. Bargain!

    When I fist got my Vx I avoided the IIIc because it was bulkier and looked horrible. Now if I was thinking of buying again, then i'd go straight for the m505. No question. Yes the handspring is cheaper, but as Palm have found out, people are happy to pay more for something that looks good and is light.

    --

  • Take a look at the Stowaway keyboard. This spiffy little device is a full size keyboard but it folds up so that it is only slightly larger than my Visor. I take notes in class using it. Seriously sweet.


    "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
    (I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)

  • I just bought a palm a year ago, only to find that I had got not the latest model, i.e palm 5. And now here there are more models coming in. I think it would be best to wait another couple of years when we'll be more clear on 3G and other recent developments to settle down on a relatively stable model (something like Win '95 which performs well enough for the common man)
  • palm 505 is section of the bible isn't it?

    --Joey

  • Choosing model names... (Score:3)

    by Lethyos ( 408045 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @05:15AM (#354604) Journal
    It's a good thing they didn't call it the "m404". Hell, I have difficulty finding my existing Palm from time to time. :-)

  • Leaving old users high and dry... (Score:3)

    by Lethyos ( 408045 ) on Monday March 19, 2001 @05:24AM (#354605) Journal
    I noticed that the PalmOS 4.0 page indicates that the upgrade requires one of the new Palm models. Now, are the new features only updates that are relevant to the new features of the recently released Palms? It looks to me that they included some new toys that benefit other people as well. *doh* Why screw current users over. :-(

    The Palm platform is largely unchanged - except for additional memory - since its early days. New 'official' improvements to the OS should be available to everyone, right? Grr... damn marketing drones.

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