Not A Bat, Nor A Plane, But A Vertical Keyboard 134
A reader who chose anonymity writes: "As usual ZZZ online was updated this Sunday. Nevertheless the issue number 67 contains quite unusual info about vertical keyboard. It is made by splitting normal keyboard into two parts and and rotating them by 90 degrees. The human imagination has no limits, vertical keyboard looks really weird." It also looks much comfier than most flat ones. Maybe that would make me learn to truly touch type, as well?
Anonymity! (Score:1)
Are we seeing a new era of respect and tolerance for anonymous cowards on Slashdot? Or was this guy just named "A reader who chose anonymity"?
Cool except... (Score:2)
I have one of those split-keyboards which raise up a fair angle, but there's one major drawback that comes up when I use it - mouse control.
Although most of my machine usage is within a shell and using vi as an editor, but on some occasions, I find I need to take one of my hands away from the keyboard to make use of the mouse.
What would be truly cool would be some mouse control on the ergonomic keyboard. That would be handy - bridging these two worlds.
When can we have... (Score:2)
REALLY old news. (Score:2)
Re:What I want from a keyboard... (is a better mou (Score:1)
I've seen the alternative.j Trust me, it SUCKED.
It was on a 486 Zenith laptop. They made the J key a J key _and_ a pointing device. Tap it and it makes a letter. Wiggle jand smush it and it moves the mouse. Tap another key j(or something like that) along with it and it "clicked". Ugggh...
I found it It hard to control, and it occasionally made udiciously placed mistakes. What a oke. jjj
Maybe there are better ideas. I'd like to see jthem...
Towards the ultimate cubicle (Score:2)
And when the dot.com crashes the Boss can just open the garage door & push them out on the street.
Remember, you read it here first.
Regards, Ralph.
Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
Don't accordian players already enjoy far too much of an unfair advantage in the struggle for world domination as it is?
Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
Re:When can we have... (Score:1)
eudas
Re:Another keyboard designed by a non-typist (Score:2)
Hmm. Maybe they were appealling to the mass market rather than to the perfectionist properly taught typists.
Personally I've never been taught to type, I find that the 'b' key is on the wrong side of the MS split keyboards for how I type, but (and I just checked this) the '6' key is on the correct side for me.
Then again, I can only touch-type with 100% accuracy at 80wpm, so I'm not exactly an expert. Anybody that can do 100+ care to comment?
~Cederic
ps: I have no idea whether it's appealling or appealing. But one l looks better.
I distinctly recall (Score:2)
It also had some small, rounded but hard (plastic) wrist rests.. but they were designed to keep the forearm (just behind the wrist) supported off the table, so you didn't get guerilla-arm syndrome from typing on the vertical pad.
2 usb keyboards (Score:1)
Attatch it to your chair (Score:1)
Not that Special... (Score:2)
As someone with carpal tunnel, I'd say it's great that it might someday exist in a usable form, but nobody is going to take this on.
Carpal tunnel damage occurs as the tendons scrape the walls of the carpal tunnel from repeated motion (i.e., typing). The vertical keyboard would, theoretically, have your hands resting in a way that your wrists would not need to flex, thereby avoiding the damage.
However, I'd bet that if there's _ANY_ flexing on the vertical axis, lifting your hand sideways will be _MORE_ stressful, just from the extra bit of resistance provided by gravity.
Anyway, this story is still not worthy of
-k.
Copycat (Score:1)
Looks poor to me (Score:2)
When I want to explain ergo keyboards to people, I ask them to hold their hands out in front of them at chest height. Go ahead and do it. Now look at your hands: your hand will be in a straight line with your arm, and your hands will be slightly angled. It isn't natural or really comfortable to bend your wrists at the precise angle needed to line up your fingers in a flat row for a normal flat keyboard.
Now look at a Microsoft Natural Keyboard. The angling of the keys allows your hands to be in more of a straight line with your arms. The bulge in the middle more closely matches the slight angle you want to hold your hands at. It helps.
The Microsoft Natural Keyboard is nowhere near as extreme as other ergo keyboards I have seen, but in my experience it makes a big difference. Once I strained my neck muscles, and typing on a flat keyboard became very painful if I did it for more than an hour or so. Since I was programming for 10 hours a day I had a problem. I tried the Microsoft Natural Keyboard and I was able to type on it all day, even with the strained muscles. I very much doubt that this new keyboard would have helped me.
P.S. Of course I could be wrong. If you naturally hold your hands out angled and rotated in such a way that your fingers are in a flat row, congratulations! You are perfectly evolved for non-ergo keyboards!
steveha
Look at the screwdriver! (Score:4)
steveha
What I want from a keyboard... (is a better mouse) (Score:1)
_Mice_ really need to be revamped. What I want from a mouse is for it to not require me to take my hands from the keyboard, and I don't mean a touchpad.
Perhaps a mouse not used by the hands would be good. What kind of alternatives can be thought up? I've read about a setup that follows eye-blinks and eye-movement, but it was used for somebody that is permanently bedridden (but they could type with it too, and wrote a book or two).
Maybe some kind of under-desk light sensor, with a knee-pad, so that you wobble your knee around to move the cursor would be usable...actually, wouldn't that be annoying?!
I don't know. I want something better than a mouse, what can you come up with?
-k.
Re:How to touch type (Score:1)
Re:When can we have... (Score:2)
It's never even occurred to me that such a thing might have use...
And you don't need to 'feel' each letter to learn to touchtype.. all you need is two divots for the proper initial finger placement.
Slashdot Old News Syndrome strikes again (Score:1)
The vertical keyboard can't be bought anywhere, it has never gone out of the lab.
Crap. Why, in fact, did this ever make it here as an article? Look what I just found.
http://www.typesafe.com/ [typesafe.com].If it's not available, why does NASA recommend it?
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Hmmm... (Score:1)
Re:Another keyboard designed by a non-typist (Score:1)
What I would like... (Score:1)
In a related story... (Score:2)
________
Ergonomics? (Score:1)
Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
I think it is cool, perfect for resting your head (Score:1)
It's cool, you rest your head between the halves of the keyboard and doze off while keeping the hands on the keyboard to look like you are typing.
But, seriously, don't you think a keyboard that felt like a pair of tits would sell better among the male geeks ?
The mirrors may be of use.... (Score:1)
It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:2)
[ot] Tripod has serious problems (Score:1)
Hello! This file is hosted by Tripod, a Lycos Network site, providing the best personal and commercial publishing tools available on the Net. For premier homepages and lively community interaction, visit Tripod often.
Please click on http://members.tripod.com/laffs/images/keyboard.jp g [tripod.com] to load this file."
Clicking that takes you to exactly the same place. What delightful recursion.
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Re:Ergonomics? (Score:4)
This keyboard would be successful in reducing wrist strain only because it prevents people from resting on them or using those stupid wrist rests that only increase pressure on the wrapping wrist ligaments. Of course, if you just support your lower arms (and most importantly, your elbows) off your work surface, much the same way a pianist does, it might be a little cheaper even though a little extra work until you get used to it.
The huge drawback I see with this concept is that finger action is no longer aided by gravity. You essentially have to re-learn the pressure needed for key action and don't have any opposing force to steady your arms. Instead, your arms swing like pendulums, your fingers bouncing off the keyboard surface like a repeller. This might work better if the surfaces were at a 45 degree angle or less but 90 degrees? I hope not much federal money went into this project...
Re:How to touch type (Score:4)
Heck, just shell out the few extra bucks and get a natural kb.
Maybe if/when IBM makes a split keyboard I'll consider it, but I can't use anything less than an IBM keyboard with those oh-so-wonderful keys. I think I get at least another 20% speed just because of the key feel.
Say what you want about IBM, but they are the keyboard king. Everything else is cheap crap in comparison. Unfortunately, I don't think they make the really indestructable, old-school I-can-kill-you-with-this-steel-case-keyboard anymore. On the other hand, the plastic ones are virtually indestructable, but it would be harder to kill someone. :) [would probably take several blows]
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Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
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Re:you can get better from microsoft R&D (Score:1)
MyopicProwls
Re:[ot] Tripod has serious problems (Score:2)
One handed typing?? (Score:1)
And not looking at the keyboard?? Guess you've never used keyboards from different countries/timeperiods have you? The symbols that you need for coding are all over the place!
Ditch the windows key....what's wrong with Ctrl-Esc?
i have seen the future and it is... (Score:1)
Re:Intermediate approach? (Score:1)
I think this quote stands by itself...
Kaa
Re:Ergonomics? (Score:1)
Quite effective apparently, but v expensive.
I'm not sure about this one though. As a previous poster noted, it would be more RSI-friendly if it was curved.
`new' idea? Doesn't seem like it... (Score:1)
Take a look at this:
http://www.ergopro.com/comfort.html [ergopro.com]
I saw one of these at MIT's Adaptive Technology [mit.edu] lab back in the early 90's. The toothed gears on the bottom are used to secure/release gimble mounts on each section, allowing full adjustability, including the (supposedly less than optimal) rectilinear configuration used above.
Who needs all those extra keys? (Score:1)
You know what I mean. All those Windows, menu and web keys will soon make the space bar and the Ctrl-keys smaller than the regular keys.
I just want a plain keyboard with 101 keys and maybe a built-in fridge, to prevent all the pizza cumbs between the keys from stinking.
Long time... (Score:1)
At first I thought he manufactured it himself, but according to him, he bought it from a place online.
I'm not interested in finding it right now though. I still hate split-ergonomic keyboards. I like my $10 cheapy one that's lasted for 7 years.
-m
Looks like........ (Score:1)
Re:Ergonomics? (Score:1)
A key board in this position, vertically, keeps your arms in a neutral position. Assuming your hand is flat and your thumb rests on your hand in such a way that everything is flat, when you hand is perpendicular to the floor is when the muscles in your lower arm are at rest.
This key board might be ok, but I would much rather have a keybaord that can adjust. This [comfortkeyboard.com] keyboard rotates from flat to 90 degrees and you can sperate the the parts up to 6 feet apart. This is the one I would because you can adjust it.
Re:gfhgfh (Score:1)
-- The_Messenger
I've seen something like this before (Score:1)
Make your own (Score:1)
Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
Your point brought something to mind...
Amazon have patented "one click" which basically devolves down into a single hyperlink...
BT claim to have a patent on hyperlinks...
So why the heck aren't BT suing Amazon? After all, he who lives by the patent should die by the patent.
Re:[ot] Tripod has serious problems (Score:1)
All generalizations are false.
[OT] Re:How to touch type (Score:1)
All generalizations are false.
Difficulties... (Score:1)
Also, that keyboard would have to be stuck down pretty well to keep it from moving as you typed something that required only one hand or hit the arrow keys a bunch. I don't think I like the idea of that keyboard too much.
Re:it isn't available anywhere (Score:1)
There is nothing whatsoever new about this keyboard. Lame article.
- Necron69
Comfort Keyboard isn't new. Try 1996... (Score:1)
The comfort keyboard is fully adjustable from standard keyboard position/flat to full upright vertical. The individual sections also rotate along the Z-axis to allow for people of different widths. (Think of it -- a *w - i - d - e* person's hands will angle in to a keyboard from a different angle than a |thn| person's.
The adjustability helps you adjust from 'normal' to whatever degree of vertical you want. They are *great* keyboards.
They truely allow a "zero" wrist bend / torque for typing. Think of the ergonomics. Stand with hands at your side. Bend your elbows and bring your hands up. Your palms will be facing *in. Now bring your hands in till they arout a foot apart. If a keyboard was "vertical", you still have to bend your hands outward to be parallel, but if the keyboard is fully adjustable, you can adjust the keyboard on the 'Z' axis to match the natural angle of your inward bend -- a unique angle depending on your body frame size.
If you have wrist strain and work at a desk top -- this is GREAT. I wish laptop manufacturers would come up with something like this built-in (yes you can attach the keyboard as an external keyboard, but that doesn't help when you are using your laptop on your lap). Sigh.
-l
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:1)
Canada is a cool place
"Interfaces" Keyboard (Score:1)
This would be a good time to mention the Interfaces Keyboard [ergointerfaces.com] from Cramer [ergointerfaces.com]. It's a split keyboard, each half attaching to the arms of your chair and having six degrees of freedom. I've been using one for over a year. Sweet! My wrist and, surprisingly, back problems have decreased by an order of magnitude.
I only have two complaints -- One, the integrated trackpad sucks rocks. It's as good as any other trackpad I've ever used, but I think they all suck rocks. I ignore it and still use my ancient Mouse Systems optical rodent. The other is that the function keys and obscure punctuation keys are a far reach. I have to move my whole arm to get to F12, and I find myself hittting backslash instead of backspace if my arms are a little out of position.
The other complaint is price. It ain't cheap! But I got my company to shell out for it, so I can't complain too much...
A great side-benefit is that the IS people refuse to touch my computer now, since they don't grok my keyboard. This is a Good Thing! :-)
Chelloveck
Re:I've seen something like this before (Score:1)
When the show aired, the inventor was saying that he hadn't sold the idea to a manufacturer yet, because he had made the stipulation that the keyboard had to be manufactured in the United States, which no manufacturer had accepted so far.
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:1)
More or less true. Instead of stripping screws, you switch to stripping drivers. I've stripped more cheap Robertson drivers than I care to remember. On the other hand, I can't recall ever stripping a Phillips driver.
I've also stripped my share of Robertson screws. It's hard to do, but when all you have handy is an overpowered single-speed 3000+ RPM drill...
A decent Robertson driver is a work of art though.
c.
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:1)
Have never stripped a good Robertson screw, nor a good Robertson screwdriver.
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Re: (Score:1)
Comfort? (Score:1)
Re:The mirrors may be of use.... (Score:1)
All generalizations are false.
Re:[ot] Tripod has serious problems (Score:1)
Not for anyone running IE5 for MacOS (often described as the best browser yet [macpublishing.net]). And before anyone accuses me of being a Mac weenie, I run the MacOS on my SuSE Linux [www.suse.de] box using Mac-on-Linux [maconlinux.com], so I can use things like IE5, Adobe Photoshop and BBEdit [barebones.com].
Not that it really matters; it's probably the same picture that I have here [downlode.org].
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www.comfortkeyboard.com ? (Score:1)
Re:side mirrors?! (Score:1)
>
>What's next? An airbag?
Yes, because the next version of this will appear in your internet-enabled car, replacing the steering wheel, in order for you to type on your head-up display [army.mil] whilst driving.
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Re:you can get better from microsoft R&D (Score:1)
Prior art found (Score:1)
I saw one of these in a computer store four years ago. It had a crank that could be used to ajust it from totally flat to totally vertical.
A quick scan through dmoz's keyboard list [dmoz.org] returns lots of examples of vertical keyboards. Like this one [fentek-ind.com].
It should be shaped like a guitar (Score:1)
New kinesis keyboard, even cooler (Score:2)
-Stype
Re:How to touch type (Score:1)
Sun made nice boards with IBM-style keys (an of course the superior key placement) up until a couple years ago. I believe that Type 5c was the last nice one. The Type 6 has really mushy "quiet"-type keys that provide even less tactile feedback than Dell "softkey" boards. Ew.
All generalizations are false.
Re:It should be a section of a sphere... (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Excellent... (Score:1)
This will go *so* well with my vertical desk chair!
this is a *really* good idea. (Score:1)
Re:How to touch type (Score:1)
IBM did make a split, adjustable keyboard. I'm typing on it now. It's Part # 13H6689, the one I'm using was manufactured in September 1995. Standard PS/2, with that great IBM feel, and an adjustable split.
Might be able to pick up one used. It's substantially relieved my hand pain, when other weirder keyboards (e.g. Kinesis) didn't.
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Flexpro keyboards (Score:1)
It was also really cool for MS-Pinball. =)
Re:How to touch type (Score:1)
It comes with RS6K systems
Indeed. When I left one company a while back that was an AIX shop, I made sure I took with me five keyboards just so I would make sure I had a lifetime supply. :)
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www.pckeyboard.com review (Score:1)
I've bought two of the "Customizer," which are basically just buckling-spring IBM PS/2 101-key keyboards. They're just about perfect. They weigh about as much as a small truck, have perfect springy tactile feel plus clicky audio feedback, and will probably last until we're no longer using keyboards. (I know a guy who still uses the keyboard from his 1986 IBM AT.)
The other nice thing about IBM PS/2 keyboards is that they're the de facto reference standard for the PS/2 keyboard interface. Some motherboards (most notoriously early Pentium II boards like the Abit LX6) have twitchy keyboard ports that will only work with some keyboards. If they work with any, they'll work with the IBM.
The threat that this model will be upgraded to include Win95 keys has been on the site for a couple of years, but they haven't done it yet. If they do, all is not lost: you can still order old IBM keyboards by model number.
The only things wrong with this keyboard are price ($79; a bit cheaper for the non-clicky ones with not-quite-perfect feel) and noise (my computers are in the basement, and I can hear my wife typing when I'm upstairs in the TV room, through a closed door.)
Worth the $79? Hell yeah, if you type a lot.
As far as the company goes, I've ordered twice from them with no problems. Shipping charges were reasonable. Not much of a sample size, I know, but they're legit.
BAD -- Broken As Designed (Score:1)
Has anyone here ever heard of the light pen for MS-DOS? No? Well, there you have it. Before the time of the squeky thingie (i.e. mouse), there was some PC (I think PC jr, so I guess it was PC-DOS, not MS-DOS) that had support for a light pen pointing device. It flopped. Know why? Because a person's hand gets tired after he/she has to hold it in front of the screen for a while. It's called ergonomics and common sense, folks.
Also, if you read the comments at the bottom of the page, there are quite a few people claiming that this idea isn't new anyway.
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:1)
c.
See the typing injury FAQ (Score:1)
NotoriousGDD
Yeah, the armor story was cool, too (Score:1)
Re:Intermediate approach? (Score:2)
I didn't find the nipple to be that bad after a month or so of using it. Your idea sounds really good, though. You could even have the "mouse key" be something that would activate when you press your thumb against the side of your finger, so it would really be a pointing action. Maybe some slight modification to avoid RSI, but I imagine it could work well. Of course, it's been far too long since I've touched a real erect nipple, so I'm kinda partial to the IBM approach at the moment.
further... (Score:1)
Re:When can we have... (Score:3)
How about Braille dots? This should be easier to feel than just the letter-shaped raised ridges, and there's no concave areas to collect spilled/builtup gunk.
I didn't find any prebuilt braille-dotted keys, but did find these stick-on caps: hooleon.com [hooleon.com]. Incidentally, this company appears to do many weird things with keyboards.
Re:A keyboard you can sleep on! (Score:4)
No more keyboard-face.
Re:Attatch it to your chair (Score:1)
I did a similar thing a few years ago, only with a mouse. I was short on desk space, but I had an optical mouse (the original kind), so I taped the mirrored mousepad to one of my desk legs so it was vertical, and I was able to use it nicely that way. It was more novel then, in the days ball mice were popular, than it would be now.
I was able to play Solitaire for twice as long before my wrist got tired... (:
These days you could probably pull that stunt with a new optical mouse. They're thicker than the old kind though, those were only about 1/2-3/4 inch tall. That was a factor for me because my desk was close to a wall.
---Please be gentle, I'm still new at this!
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:3)
Canadian invention, I think. Part of our insidious plan to take over the world, eh? Get with the program already; resistance is futile.
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Re:How to touch type (Score:2)
I have one of the wing o' deth keyboards. Weighs a frigging metric tonne. Got those sweet, sweet ALPS keys in it... real springs and everything. Built like a freaking brick shithouse. When you put it down, it *stays* put. And clicky! Oh, so clicky!
I was lucky enough to score a replacement keyboard for free the other day. It's not a steel-plate wing o' deth, but it's got the ALPS keys. I figure I can swap out the guts.
For others with this sort of fanaticism for great keyboards, this website looks promising: they repair keyboards, and it sure looks like they're using ALPS keyswitches in their custom keyboards. I'm particularly horny for the one with the rubber joystick-mouse on it: [PC Keyboard] [pckeyboard.com].
If anyone does buy a keyboard from PCKeyboard, how about writing a Slashdot review?
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it isn't available anywhere (Score:2)
Is it even possible to mod it into this configuration at home?
Lacking in ergonomics? (Score:4)
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Re:it isn't available anywhere (Score:3)
Is it upside down? (Score:2)
Your eyes. (Score:2)
-russ
Re:bah.. (Score:2)
Re:Look at the screwdriver! (Score:3)
I find the keyboard mentioned in the article to be the least interesting of all the gadgets.
Re:It should be shaped like a guitar (Score:2)
That's funny. When I tried to learn the guitar, I found myself wishing it was shaped like a keyboard.
side mirrors?! (Score:3)
and I quote
"The users don't see what they are typing, so the keyboard has two fixed side-mirrors."
Side mirrors? on a keyboard?!
Intermediate approach? (Score:2)
you can get better from microsoft R&D (Score:4)
How to touch type (Score:2)
And, as a bonus, this is who to learn to type fast as well. Three rules:
1. Don't look at your fingers.
2. Look at the screen, not your fingers.
3. DAMMIT DON'T LOOK AT YOUR FINGERS, LOOK AT THE SCREEN!!
Put a box over your hands if you have to, but DON'T LOOK AT YOUR FINGERS. In two weeks, you will be typing twice as fast as you do now.
Hell, here's another typing tip. I'm convinced this is how to eliminate wrist problems. The typing books always show the wrists turned, and then the hands being perpendicular to the keys. Don't do this. Instead, hold your hands the way you would on a "natural" keyboard where it's split. In other words, keep your wrists totally straight with your hands at about a 30 degree angle to the keys. You can type just as fast, and I'll bet you'll have far fewer carpel tunnel problems. At least, I've never had them and I've been typing really fast for 20 years (on regular keyboards). Your mileage may vary, but it seems like it makes sense.
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