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Hardware

Underwater Computer For Ocean Research 76

Posted by Hemos from the cool-machines dept.
Jafa writes "Following the article on space laptops, here's an article on a computer built for underwater. Not as in a typical dive computer, or for higher pressure air environments, but wet and under pressure. The article is fairly short on technical details, but it sounds like it uses key chords in place of a typical keyboard. We've got space, underwater, and nano. What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?"
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Underwater Computer for Ocean Research More

Underwater Computer for Ocean Research

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  • New environment: war (Score:4)

    by Polo ( 30659 ) on Wednesday October 11, 2000 @04:49PM (#713399) Homepage
    Here [army.mil] is a link to the Army Landwarrior system which uses ruggedized 4x1x8" dual-processor pentium systems to help foot soldiers. It's part of the Advanced Warfighting Experiment [army.mil]. The systems are encased in gel to ruggedize them, cool then and shock proof them.

    The scary part - they run win 2k
  • It is Silicon Valley after all. Hardly the Yukon Territory when it comes to climate. Or is it just the prevalence of air conditioning that encourages designers to look past their own immediate environments and look to the future and the greater good of personkind?
  • Speaking of which, does anybody know a cheap way to immersiblize a Palm Vx? No, I won't tell you what I want it for...

    __________

  • No, we don't really have "space". We just have "zero-g". :o)

    Nothing mentioned so far would properly operate *outside* the space shuttle when in orbit. I imagine such a machine would have to be hardened enough that it would also operate just fine underwater - and in any environment it is possible for a suitably protected human to visit.

    This sort of device would probably be a requirement for any future manned expeditions to the moon or mars - a mobile computer for data collection, mapping, email, reading /.

    Those machines would be the ultimate road-warriors...

    (Which brings up another point - how would remote internet access from another planet be handled - with round-trip signal delays of minutes rather than the seconds that the current generation of zero-G space hardware is designed to deal with?)

  • Ummm...could I take my laptop in my shower or surf the net while bathing? That sort of thinking scares me....ussually, when someone takes an electronic device into the bath with them...it is for FAR different reasons then surfing the net...more like making some *toast*


  • Don't know, but I know they can run at 100 Deg C.

    My uncle works for GoodYear in their internal systems design department. I am told that the machines that they stick out on the assembly line must be super reliable. (ie, they can't afford to close down an entire section of the plant so that a human can enter the highly toxic/hot enviro. to fix a broken box.)

    So, during the testing phase, I am told that they litterly seal up the box (they run i486 cpu's w/their own motherboards), hook up the sealed mux cable, start the canned software, and then toss (no joke) the system into a tank of fluid kept at approx. 180-208 Deg F. (if my memory serves me correctly) for 2 weeks.

    I have no idea how the cooling works. I just know for a fact that it is done. Apparently there are a LOT of trade secrets in this stuff.

    Just FYI,
    ---
  • Already been done... remember the camera the could be swallowed and digested...
  • Cool.
    Now I can keep on working, while doing my favorite hobby: Diving.

    It's all i ever needed. NOT

    Mark [zwienenberg.com]


    Mark [zwienenberg.com]
  • Nice sig, but isn't being called bastard and stepchild kinda like double jeopardy? I mean, really, one is bad enough without bringing the other into play. And I won't even comment on the evils of redheads in America....ok I will. After all, redheads are resposible for every major societal ill. All social problems can be traced back to redheads...and lefties...damn those lefties!!

    Averye0 -- is left-handed, redheaded, and a stepchild, but not a bastard (at least, not technically)
  • We've got space, underwater, and nano. What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?

    Hemos' ass crack!!!

    I would like to see a machine work in such a hellish harsh environment.

  • Hmmm, assuming this isn't just trawling, has it not occurred to you that there are plenty of working divers, who stay down a *lot* deeper than where it takes just a few minutes to come up again. Also there are divers who spend an awful lot of time underwater such as oil-rig divers etc, for whom having a computer to log faults etc would be very handy.

    Not that I'm an expert or anything - deepest I've ever dived is when I've dropped the soap in my bathtub!

    "Give the anarchist a cigarette"
  • Your firewall has been hacked [etcpasswd]

  • New method of DDOS attacks: Ex-lax brownies for the whole office!
  • naw... Just open the case....

    Have a liquid-cooled system. With these new-fangled biochips, might actually need the water.
    :P~~
  • Okay, a couple things to comment on here.

    1) Once science invents a computer that can withstand blast forces and still operate with a melted processor, nuke blasts are covered.

    2) Vacuum tubes are immune. The old style MiGs in the Russian Air Force were immune to the electromagnetic pulses from nuclear weapons. The U.S.A.F. planes were exceedingly vulnerable because they have every shiny nice new toy that the Air Farce wants to put in there, wherein it becomes next to impossible for one of those overpriced monsters to fly without electrical power. The MiGs didn't have the best glide ratio, but they could still operate in the bounds of the EMP.

    So, if you want to make a computer that goes back to vacuum tubes and steam powered analytical engines, you could make it nuke-resistant. Either that, or slap 4 inches of lead on every side of the case, peripherals and cables.

    Kierthos
  • LOL!
    That is one of the best reply's I have ever had to my sig!

  • Hmmm, build your own at home? (Score:3)

    by Mr. Flibble ( 12943 ) on Wednesday October 11, 2000 @04:53PM (#713415) Homepage
    I think the lack of a keyboard is bad, but I guess needed in such an environment. I wonder how they make the monitor work? The interesting thing is that (despite the I/O connections) you could waterproof a current computer with something as simple as epoxy.

    Back in the '80's the guy who taught me BASIC on a TRS 80 was working on some sort of encrypted security sensor (I was allowed to see it, and only know a little of what it did, but hey, I was 11 at the time!) Anyways, since the sensor and its electronics had to be in a variable environment, what he did was encase the electronics in epoxy. The small board and chips easially fit inside an ice cube, and thats exactly how he encased them. He left the wires for the power and sensors out of the ice cube tray, then poured epoxy into the trays. Bingo. Totally encased eletronics. Now this did not look too great, but it worked...

    You could do a similar thing with todays electronics though. the only problem would be the power supply and peripherals (and TOTAL lack of upgrades....) (Cooling would be easy, use a water-soluble material to mould around the heatsink, when the epoxy sets, wash away the mould, leaving a hole to the outside.

    Thats my theory anyways. I think epoxy would work. (At least to a depth of 30 feet, I don't know if it could handle the pressure of say 150 feet. You would have to design the system carefully for those depths!)

    Of course, I guess that simple pressure cases could do this just as easially simply hook the system up to the bcd and it should work for keeping the system properly pressurized...

    Just some random geeky thoughts...
    I feel like encasing one of my 486's in epoxy now to try that out....
  • Now on, we will have the deep blue screen of death.
  • ...but I'd sure like to see a laptop that could be safely and effectively used during sex. Just think of the extra stimulation that could be gained while pr0n-surfing while getting it on with your (we hope) flesh-and-blood mate!

    Not to dismiss those of you who use substitutes, but, ah, I'll stick with the real thing.

  • Sure thats soda you keep spilling...
  • So I'm thinking, Why would an underwater computer be necessary? While under the sea, you happen to come across a great find or area that must absolutely be logged into your computer? Is it so important that it couldn't wait the several minutes for you to get back up into your boat and log it in then?
    Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not anti-technology, but I think proliferation is better used elswhere. When I'm underwater, there's a lot of other things that I've got my mind on rather than downloading my e-mail, overclocking my Celeron, or anything pertaining to my computer for that matter.
    Even for serious government-funded research. the computers should stay onboard the boats and leave the divers to explore in a hands-free environment.


    --

    Vote Homer Simpson for President!

  • Now imagine a Beowulf cluster of these things...

    Really, though, I'd love to be able to play Quake3 in my bathtub!
  • Windows works just fine... oh wait you mean its not just a pretty blue screen saver?
  • Let me guess... Microsoft has already announced a speach recognition package! All you have to do is speak clearly and slowly.
  • I wonder what would happen if you flushed an overclocked Celeron down each one all at once?

  • Under water wireless networking is a much harder problem than you might expect. Electro-magnetic Waves don't travel very far in water, so you'd have to line the ocean with repeaters...

    It might be possible if the diver had a bouy above where he was diving. He would transmit to the bouy (that he couldn't be too far from), and the bouy would repeat the signal to a ground base.

    It'd add a bit of latency, so quake while your diving would still be out of the question :)
  • Would sound waves work better? They can travel very quickly under water, and although it'd be an analog signal, I'm pretty sure you could get more than 56k...
  • I don't think the keyboard is that big a deal. Use the hall effect sensors, or other non-physical sensor systems. That way the keys of the keyboard can be open and exposed to the water - no pressure differential.
  • Wow! Imagine colonizing Mars with this!
  • . We've got space, underwater, and nano. What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?"
    One word: Intrastellar.

    Not "interstellar" as in, deep space, travelling from one star to another.
    "INTRAstellar" as in, travelling WITHIN a star.

    Code commentary is like sex.
    If it's good, it's VERY good.

  • Wonder if it can surf the interwet?
  • The human body is most likely the next frontier for computers. Computers that will augment the senses and memory, as well as take over some nervous system functions. Can you say direct brain to brain interface?
  • >What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?

    My office...Thanks MS.

    Sheldon
  • Pretty much. It's actually a legal requirement. There was a legal precedent, many years ago, that a login message that said "welcome" authorized the illegal entry by a stranger. (I kid you not!).

    Putting a lock on your door won't stop most good burglars. It does, however, change the charge from illegal entry to break and enter.
    `ø,,ø`ø,,ø!

  • Now all we need is an underwater wireless LAN and a power supply.
  • How about computers able to survive an atom bomb, so that they could make and record precise measurements.. I've got a feeling that a nuke blast could mess a few things up in your average PC =)

  • "What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?" How about the typical windoze office, none of the computers there seem to work at all.

    Windoze enhanced security mode: shut off

  • Divers may access reference material from a database and funnel data through the water to the surface over long distances. Is it just me or is there a really bad pun somewhere in there?
  • The computer lab at my school must be a terribly harsh enviroment for computers, because you can always count on the lab machines not working. The poor computers cry out in misery to me. I can't go there anymore...it's depressing...
  • ...a Beowulf cluster of these!

  • The Aussies have it beat (Score:3)

    by owens ( 183768 ) on Wednesday October 11, 2000 @04:31PM (#713439)
    The referenced article gives few details, but I'm willing to bet that the WetPC [aims.gov.au] beats the SeaPC hands down (literally).
  • Now all we need is an underwater wireless LAN and a power supply.

    I'm building a Beowulf cluster using a bunch of 486 motherboards installed in the toilet tanks around the office.

    Helps to keep the (overclocked) processors cool, and it saves water!

  • computers that work in the shower!

  • It all started the same day segfault.org stopped posting comments and writeins on the poll.

    I don't think /. would last long if it stopped comments.

  • I AM g0aThaX0r!

  • Looking forward . . . (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    . . . to spending some weekend (wait for it) Perl diving! ~~~

  • Other environments... (Score:4)

    by jmv ( 93421 ) on Wednesday October 11, 2000 @05:34PM (#713445) Homepage
    What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?

    What about very hot environments? It would be pretty easy to make a computer work at very cold temperature, but what about one that would work at very hot temperature like would be needed for a mission to Venus (200-400 C). This is really a fundamental semi-conductor problem. Does anyone know what's the hottest environment they've managed to make a processor run so far?
  • I'd love to see some of this technology perfected, commercialized and made lighter. Not so i can dive, but so I can have a laptop I can really throw around, if you know what I mean. Laptops are still relatively delicate, I would love one I could treat like any other notebook.
  • Ziplock bags are about 5 &#162 each. :)

  • Think about it you can overclock your computer and not have to worry about cooling. At 60 meters down the water is a constant tempature. So overclocking the heck out of the processor(as long as it is set directly on the metal case) you would not have to worry about needing more cooling.

    Though it would make it pretty hard to change cd's.

    does the internet go that low?
    Though the fish might get annoyed by to many MP3's playing. As sound travles better in water...
    I can see it now. "Napster sinks to new low."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • (Warning, Shawshank Redemption spoiler ahead)

    We've got space, underwater, and nano. What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?

    How about raw sewage? Like, say the guy in Shawshank wants to check his email/play solitaire/etc halfway through the escape...
    --


  • is a laptop with a screen that doesn't fog up while I'm pushin' a turtle head out.
  • I'd love to Q3 or UT while my g/f suds me me up. :-)!

    How, at that particular moment, you could give her anything less than your full undivided attention, baffles me.

  • .....and then he could finally take on Grendel's mother.......
  • New method of DDOS attacks: Ex-lax brownies for the whole office!

    Actually, the overly-frequent flushing would probably cause all the processors to overheat (running dry too long) and would cause a rather massive hardware failure...

  • Re: Beowulf cluster of 486s mounted in toilet tanks.

    Upgrade to P3s and eliminate your hot water bills! Not to mention that annoying fan noise.

    Great idea!

    And when I'm taking a dump and a piece hits the water a little too fast, the water that sprays up from the bowl will give me third-degree burns.

    On the other hand, I will agree with you that it does have its merits. Certainly, hot water in the toilet will probably reduce the incidence of stains and things in the bowl.

  • Y'know, they make those keyboard condoms for the *food* industry, ya skanks. Maybe he shouldn't do those things above his keyboard.
  • Yes, but for some reason the SeaPC as discussed in the article reverts to the relatively pedestrian hold-it-in-your-hands technology, rather than the heads-up display and chord controller. Regardless of which one works better, the WetPC is clearly much geekier ;)
  • And your network topology is already layed out by the plumbing! How convenient...

    ... A beowulf cluster of toilets ... huh.

  • How about a computer for your shower? I'd love to Q3 or UT while my g/f suds me me up. :-)!

    How about a little pop-out-from-the-sink-next-to-the-toilet computer? The King would love to check his mail and code while sitting on his throne. Wouldn't you?

  • All that I need is an inexpensice waterproff keyboard. It gets annoying having to clean out soda spills all the time.
    -MSD.dyndns.org [dyndns.org]
    "Sucks to your ass-mar"
  • . . . to providing it with state of the art data collection equipment, NSU scientists were able to shave hundreds of dollars off the per unit cost by taking advantage of the enhanced overclockability of the Celeron in relatively cool seawater. "Watching the dual Celery 333's POST at 605 Mhz was a thrill even through goggles at 40 meters," said one. The Q3test results were not yet available at press time.
  • "What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?" How about in the human mind? Once computers are small and fast enough, and we figure out how brain signals work, simply put a nano computer in the ol' noggin. That way you wouldn't need to worry so much about protecting the computer hardware but the user, which we can already do for the many potential environments.

    "The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the bead."
  • There's a few good options. If you merely want to be able to carry it around without worrying, you can check out an Otterbox [otterbox.com].

    But if you want to actually be able to use the Palm in wet conditions, you'll want to check out Aquapac [aquapac.net].

    Good stuff, both of em.
  • It'll blend in with the water. Camoflage computing!
  • The interesting thing about keyboards underwater must be the same challenge as underwater cameras. I've taken the crappy underwater disposable cameras down to 80' before with no leakage of the housing. The reason they are rated for no deeper than 10' is because once you push the button to take a picture below 20' or so, it stays pushed! You have to return to the 10' ceiling for the spring to overcome the water pressure and push the button back out. The challenge would seem to be getting some kind of set-up that the spring was strong enough to overcome the water pressure while not so strong as to be un-pushable with the finger tip.

  • Aparently you weren't reading close enough...
    From the referenced article (5th paragraph):
    ..." Australian-based Nautronix Ltd., which developed the computer with the Australian Institute of Marine Science and WetPC."
    In other words the Aussies developed this computer for the Nova Southeastern University Oceanographic Center.
  • This is also a practical question for operating equipment on earth in extreme conditions, such as the Chernobyl cleanup robots that are now piling up in the middle of that meltdown...
  • ok, now THAT was one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.
    Hawks
    "Developers are the redheaded bastard step children of the computer world",
  • "What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in?" How about the typical windoze office, none of the computers there seem to work at all.

    Or in my case (I have a bad temper) it needs to be functioning inside of a trash can, with crusty week-old General Tso's Chicken sauce and pork fried rice all over it.

    Another option that would be useful for too many reasons to list...
    I want a working computer that is completely encased inside of a brick.

  • Tell me about it, They make me prove I can type faster than 50 wpm to get a bloody A. Only prob is the keyboards have gum under every other key. Kinda hard to type if the keys don't come back up. (I got a good keyboard, everyone else failed) The best though is the little screen that comes up before the login that tells me not to try and login unless I'm an authorised user. Kind of like telling a crook not to enter a house unless he lives there. All it is in another bloody popup to click through. At the speeds those computers run at this adds a few seconds of pain on a good day.

  • Wow (Score:1)

    by Averye0 ( 194295 )
    Does this mean I can now major in Underwater Kernel Hacking? Sign me up for the class in Underwater Perl Weaving!
    Averye0
  • Upgrade to P3s and eliminate your hot water bills! Not to mention that annoying fan noise.

    __________

  • We've got space, underwater, and nano. What other frontiers or environments are left for computers to work in? My house. (rimshot).

    ________________________________________
  • What about a cracksnack proof computer? I am sure my year old keyboard has enough Lil Debbie crumbs in it to feed a pack of stoned Phishheads.

  • "The article is fairly short on technical details, but it sounds like it uses key chords in place of a typical keyboard"

    I have *a friend* who enjoys masturbating while looking at Natalie Portman pictures he finds on the Internet. Does this mean my *friend* doesn't have to worry about dried up semen ruining his keyboard? My *friend* is getting really damn tired of buying a new keyboard every six months.

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