Amusement Park Bans PDAs and Smartphones

Ant writes in with news that an amusement park in the UK is trying out a ban on smartphones and PDAs, with the intent to enable families actually to have fun together. The press release says that from May 25 to June 1, adults found using a PDA will be asked to drop it off at a "PDA Drop Off Zone" — no word on what happens if they refuse. But both the Sun and BoingBoing, which picked up their brief story, strike a more ominous note with the claim that "special wardens" will confiscate the devices. If the experiment is deemed a success the park may make the ban permanent.

I understand their point...

...but stepping up and taking away someone's personal property is nothing but thuggery.

Oh Please...

...but stepping up and taking away someone's personal property is nothing but thuggery.

No it's not. They have a policy at a private amusement. I f you don't like it, you can "recreate" elsewhere.

Re:Oh Please...

As long as they have a huge sign posted out front BEFORE I PAY that's just fine with me. I would just take my money elsewhere.

Re:Oh Please...

A local store has a sign they hang up that you can only see as you're leaving, which says "we reserve the right to inspect bags". Security guards ask nicely, but I walk past them with a sneer. How do I get away with it? They _don't_ have that right to begin with, so they can't reserve it.
A manager at the store blocked my path once, immediately after I purchased something, and asked to see my bag.. the bag the check-out clerk just gave me. I told him to get out of my way or I'm calling the police. He first looked like he'd be happy to have the police there until a little spark went off in his little reptilian brain and he got out of my way.

If I hang up a sign in my house saying "I reserve the right to cavity search" or "I reserve the right to confiscate your property", it doesn't mean I suddenly am exempt from laws against assault or theft perpetrated against people I asked onto my property.

Re:Oh Please...

No, he doesn't have the right to stop you. But, at the point that he stepped out of the way, he would have been fully within his rights to inform you that you were not permitted to shop there in the future, and that attempts to reenter the store would be treated as trespass.

Re:Oh Please...

So ? A policy at whatever place cannot override the law. If I have a policy that says I'm allowed to kill you on my private property, I'm still going away for murder if I do.

That's only vaguely true, and not even vaguely relevant. The owners of private property have every right, legally and ethically, to require visitors to that property to agree to (practically) any terms they want. The visitors are free to leave if they find the terms unacceptable. I can't imagine any US or UK court upholding terms that allow illegal behavior, but for anything short of that, what do you think "private property" means?

And in this case, there's nothing remotely illegal about the terms being set. The amusement park operators are simply not allowing certain devices on their property, and offering a (free?) storage service for those disallowed devices. Visitors can leave their smartphones at home, or in the car, or in the park-provided storage. If you don't like those choices, don't go to that park.

The real issues are:

1. Would you personally visit an amusement park with this policy?
2. Is this policy a sound business decision?

My answers are no to both, as I assume yours are, but this is ABSOLUTELY NOT a legal/civil liberties issue.

Re:Oh Please...

I think we're making too much of it. It's no different ethically or legally from movie theaters that ban outside food.

Re:Oh Please...

If you are seen using a Palm, iPaq or other personal digital assistant or smartphone, the special wardens will take it away from you."

My question is: what if you are using it to communicate with other members of your party in the park? Suppose you have a copy of the park map on it?

Smartphones/PDAs are not just used for business, after all.

Re:Oh Please...

My question is: what if you are using it to communicate with other members of your party in the park? Suppose you have a copy of the park map on it?

Smartphones/PDAs are not just used for business, after all.

The iPhone has a media player and a camera. What if you are making a home video of your family enjoying the amusement park?

Re:Oh Please...

What. The. Fuck. "There is now law that says you must be allowed..." What the hell is that? Since when were activites implicitly blacklisted and then only allowed once added to a whitelist?

Since the beginning of human history, or thereabourts. You may have heard of this concept, it's called "private property", and you aren't even allowed to enter my private property until I give you permission to do so.

You seem to be very vocally confused about exactly what's going on here, so perhaps a bulleted list will be of some assistance:

* This is the United Kingdom, not the US, so the Constitution means fuck-all to anyone involved.

* Even if this were the United States, you'd still be horribly wrong. With very very few exceptions, nothing in the Constitution has any jurisdiction over private organizations. I direct you to the first words of the First Amendment as an example: Congress shall enact no law...

* Finally, the Constitution doesn't even remotely say what you claim it says. The confusion you seem to be having is over the Tenth Amendment. It says that any "power" (power to make laws) not expressly given to the Federal Government, is automatically given to the states. It says absolutely nothing about whatever laws the states may or may not have that aren't written in the Constitution.

That's just for starters, so perhaps you should take a political science course or two before your next ill-informed /. rant.

Re:Oh Please...

If I invite you into my home and tell you to leave your cell phone at home, but you choose to bring it anyway, are you telling me I have the right to confiscate it from you and keep it?

You can leave it at the door - your strawman will keep it for you till you leave.

Re:I understand their point...

stepping up and taking away someone's personal property is nothing but thuggery.

Perhaps, but bear in mind they can retrieve their PDA when they leave, and one can avoid the issue altogether by leaving your PDA at home, turning it off, or just plain not using it.

The fact is, private amusement parks can have rules, and can ask you to leave if you refuse to follow them. This is just an example of that.

If you're so very important that you can't turn your blackberry off for a day, you have the option of not visiting Alton Towers. If you really are that important, maybe you should turn your PDA off anyway, so your employers can be prepared for if you ever die or move jobs.

You're all missing the point

The word "ban" isn't really what they're doing.

"Amusement Park Provides Secure Drop-Off Point for PDAs and Smartphones" would be more like it. To advertise this service they have a kid dressed as a policeman "banning" people from using PDAs and pointing them towards the drop-off point.

Re:I understand their point...

They're not taking anything from anyone - it's just a little marketing gimmick accompanying a little 'family friendly' advice.

Parents are being ASKED to relinquish/put away their PDAs etc, in order to spend 'quality' time with their children.

The article says 'no word on what will happen if they refuse' because nothing will happen. There's no story here, no news, just an advertisement...

...and no need for any nerd to get their knickers in a knot. ;)

Re:Sniff, sniff..

Well, I can think of a few people who would actually enforce a policy that stupid, but...

First question: Are they confiscating all cell phones, or only smartphones?

If it's only smartphones, it's a liveable policy -- provided you can buy everyone a non-smartphone. It's still moronic that they're trying to enforce fun -- it's not like it spoils anyone else's fun if you want to spoil your trip by playing Solitaire on your smartphone the whole time.

If it's all phones, well, you've just eliminated a useful tool for finding lost kids, or for preventing kids from getting lost. It's all well and good to say "We'll meet here at 5:30," but it's nice to be able to call if they don't make it.

Re:Sniff, sniff..

Christ, wouldja take a minute to think even briefly before typing. What are you on about, saying, "it's not like it spoils anyone else's fun if you want to spoil your trip by playing Solitaire on your smartphone the whole time"? This policy is not aimed at 19-year-old geeks who've turned up by themselves, it's aimed at parents. And yes it really will spoil your 10-year-old's day if you're playing Solitaire instead of joining them on the rides.

Re:Sniff, sniff..

If it's all phones, well, you've just eliminated a useful tool for finding lost kids, or for preventing kids from getting lost.

Indeed the children, won't anybody think of the children.

Re:I understand their point...

...but stepping up and taking away someone's personal property is nothing but thuggery.

property, privacy, rights, entitlements, money, etc... welcome to .uk. Enjoy your stay

Oh, fuck off. Seriously, this is the kind of kneejerk reaction that detracts from the damages to civil liberties that are happening in the UK.

It's a minor story about a crap gimmick Alton Towers are using to get some publicity, and it's being presented here as an "OMG!!!!! They're taking away our rights!!!!!!!!11111" story.

Aside from the fact it's a private amusement park (not a pseudo-public space like a shopping centre), it's not even being done for the usual surveillance-state bullshit "pedos might take photos of our children" type reasons. (*)

You don't like it? Don't go to fucking Alton Towers! I wouldn't...

(*) Given the popularity of using pedos to justify every ludicrous measure, if this isn't the reason being given in public, then it sure as hell isn't the true reason either.

Not just PDAs

This reminds me of a restaurant in Colorado Springs that prided itself on cutting your tie in half if you stupidly showed up with one on. Casual diners only!

Criminal damage

It doesn't matter if they think that you are stupid or not, cutting your tie in half is criminal damage ... I am surprised that someone has not called the cops out on them.

Smart...

So the policy allows kids phones for safety purposes.

Who are they going to call? The parents without the cell phones?

Ban watches, phones, mp3 players...

Ban everything everywhere. Ban it. You WILL have fun goddamnit.

What? But I'm a Doctor, on call...!

"Special wardens will confiscate such devices" as a possible outcome.

How will those who are doctors, law enforcement officials and such who are on call or other emergency personnel be able to remain in touch with their call-in stations then and who are required to carry such devices (and may even be issued them as part of their standard equipment)?

And isn't that called "theft?" Or, at least violation of personal property under UK law?

While I appreciate the idea of not having to be interrupted at every turn by some idiot either playing a video game or answering a mindless "WHASSUP?!" call in the middle of a show, there should be some better way to do this.

And what happens when someone loses their claim ticket or, worse, the park loses their smart device? The cost to the park will be far in excess of the "social savings" this ban might give them.

From this side of the pond, it's just another sign that every petty administrator, everywhere, wants to control a little slice of the lives that come into their sphere of influence.

They are going to have a LOT of very angry people to contend with when they try this because, more and more, smart devices are becoming the norm, rather than the exception. What a wonderful way to turn the happiest place on earth into a focus for seething animosity!

Well done, park officious officials!

Re:Just don't go.

None of their damned business, first of all. That's between him and his family.

And second, being callable doesn't mean you'll necessarily take a call. My phone is always on, and always on me, short of airplane travel -- but I'm only rarely called.

Re:This is a great idea!

Whoa, hang on a minute.

A few things to think about;

1. England != UK. Confusing the two is bad form; our Scots and Welsh brethren will surely kick up a stink at that. 2. Alton Towers are free to trial this. The fact they are trialling it first is a good way to go about things. 3. We use the Pound (Sterling) as our currency - you'll prise it from my euro-sceptic-dead-hands.

Considering the pasting that Labour are getting in the papers and at the polling booths, I'd say us 'British Subjects' are still quite capable of fighting back, in the more general sense of the political climate here at the moment.