In Australia, XP Cheaper Than Linux On Eee 900 319
KrispyDollars writes "It sounds crazy to say this, but the XP-based version of the Eee PC 900 (the new version with the 8.9" screen) will actually be considerably cheaper than the Linux-based version. At the official launch today, the company told journalists that 'Microsoft has been a longstanding supporter of Asus' to explain the price discrepancy. And — get this — only the XP-based machine will be sold at mass-market retailers, while the Linux-based model will be consigned to computer stores."
12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure the only reason the pricing is different is due to the storage factor. I've suspected for quite sometime that Microsoft basically gives away XP & MS Works with Dell computers and now that the price of hardware is dropping, they're going to have to. Works is a real piece of work, FYI
Is it ok to chastise Asus for denying customers the choice of OS independent of HDD size? Yes.
Is it ok to go on a rant about Microsoft's hidden costs? Definitely, in fact I'm sure there's going to be a few +5 insightfuls with that theme.
Is it ok to wig out and claim that Microsoft is cutting deals with Asus to insure the downfall of Linux? No. You're wasting your time--spend it more constructively coding open source or lobbying for your company to use open source.
Asus is free to do as they please and if Microsoft thinks it's a good business move, let them. The funny thing about open source is that you don't have to promote it to end users. It's slowly and steadily being adopted. The end state is open source for everyone everywhere; it's unavoidable; it's just a question of when it happens (and no, I'm not going to personify software or data as 'wanting' to be free because it's about what improves the community not what software 'wants'). As long as Microsoft isn't doing something shady to keep Linux out of the Enterprise, they can do whatever they want. I don't even know how they could do that. If you look at the trends, whatever is adopted by the Enterprise is usually adopted by the single consumer in due time. DoD is starting to mandate open source also.
Ubuntu 8.04 was a marked improvement over 7.10. Aero was on par with XP. Microsoft has parked themselves at the head of the pack and are now relying on Business and Marketing to promote a Technology. It's a good sign of bad times for Microsoft.
So why is everyone fretting? Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Please, don't be one of those guys who preach about open source in a RMS religious zealot style to end users who just want their goddamn iPod to work on their home machine (Oh, by the way, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my shuffle Just Worked when I attached it to Ubuntu 8.04). You're doing more harm than good.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Funny)
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to buy a cheapo WRT54Gv5 version of the wireless router, you get it packed with VxWorks, some kind of crappy and proprietary OS installed in DLink routers. If you want to have a stable and reliable router, you go with the WRT54GL (L for Linux), which is the "deluxe" Linux version.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Funny)
Only on Slashdot will someone mention a "Brazilian model" and be talking about some sort of router. Tragic!
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong, you fail it
Linux Out of the Real World
July 1st, 1997 by Sebastian Kuzminsky in
* Industry News
Debian Linux has taken flight aboard the Space Shuttle Columbia.
Re: (Score:2)
Say Wha?!
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:4, Funny)
it is so modular and low-level that the end result is as crappy as you want it to be, but not as VxWorks have made you crap it.
Say Wha?!
Client: "Hey, I wanna make a car"
VxWorks: "Okay. Here's lego blocks. They are certified and been used by thousands of high-profile companies before you, so they are guaranteed a high level of quality."
Client: "Hey, I've done my car, but it's crappy"
Whose fault is it?
(( PS: if you're talking about my english, I think it is correct, though it's not my native tongue ))
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And also, Their space-suits, calculators, independent experiments, solar collectors, cameras, doors, lights, walls--hell I wouldn't be surprised if the air on the space-station had its own OS. Isn't everything computerized these days?
I'm guessing either you got the telling of the story slightly wrong
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It does show the cost of Windows. (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps, without Microsoft interference, Asus would have a $400 12 GB model and a $500 20 GB model. That would more closely match the US prices and falling hardware prices.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Interesting)
If only the XP version is available at "mass-market retailers", that is a bit suspicious but understandable. Users with little experience may be better off if a salesperson explains the difference to them. Competent salespersons tend to be rare at supermarkets.
Overall, I don't see much evidence of shady deals here.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess if they're positioning this thing as a traditional laptop, it makes sense to be concerned about people's expectations. But I thought the Eee was marketed as an internet appliance that you shouldn't expect to be able to run iTunes on. And the limited capacity (especially of the XP model) leaves little room for big apps like iTunes.
If you ask me, the price point has moved beyond the old, cheap, impulse buy model. It's certainly a better deal than a Mac Air, but Asus is starting to confuse the new category they helped define. And maybe that's by design. Lots of attention and hype. Now they're trying to redirect it toward their higher-margin offerings.
Still doesn't justify charging more to leave off Windows. Anti-trust enforcement is a joke.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Insightful)
1.(The Apple way) Be able to control everything, from the metal to the display. If you can make everything the way you want it to be, you can make things work by design.
2. (The Microsoft way) Be able to contol everyone, from the hardware manufacturers to the software developers. If you can make everybody make things the way you want them to be, you can make things work by fiat.
3. (The F/OSS way) Be able to know everything, from the hardware registers to the software code. If you know everything about the components you use, you can make things work by hacking.
The reason RMS is so adamant about making things free is because we, as end users, have no other way to make them work for us.
None of those ways "work" (Score:2)
1. The "Apple Way"--where Apple controls it all, is the most likely way for casual users to get a "just works" experience, but even that isn't perfect or seamless. Case in point: My wife's MacBook has trouble staying connected to the wireless access point... that's located 15 feet away. And there's nothing I can do about it, because Apple controls it all.
2. The "Microsoft Way"--the "make things work by fiat" idea is indeed what Microsoft wishes for, but anyone who has dealt with d
Re:None of those ways "work" (Score:5, Insightful)
1.) Either the access point isn't an Apple product, and thereby outside of their control, or there really is a problem in their wifi implementation, which is a failure to adhere to their approach, not a failure of their approach in general.
2.) Microsoft's hegemony isn't universal, and it is certainly not omnipotent. They can get most people to follow their rules, but even those that choose to will not always follow all of the rules, or follow them properly. Again, this is because they don't control everyone, which is a failure to fully implement the approach, not a failure of the approach itself.
3.) You're quite right that not every user wants to hack their system to make it work. The F/OSS implementation is to provide enough users who can and do hack their systems to make it work, and having those users share the fruits of their labor with the rest of the community. Ideally, the manufacturers of hardware and developers of software would become a part of that community, and therefore they would be the "geeks", spreading the use of their product would be their "itch", and the hacking would be done by them to the benefit of their users. Again, the implementation of this approach is not universal, and so it doesn't make everything "Just Work".
There may be other approaches that I've not thought about, but if any of these three were to be successfully implemented, then they could make everything "Just Work". As it is, some organizations have produced various incarnations of these approaches with mixed levels of success, with Apple coming the closest to realizing the ideal of their chosen approach.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't care if Joe Random Guy can hack the code. There are six billion people in the world - the bet is that *someone* will be willing to hack and share. In practice, that's usually a good bet.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Informative)
Page 29:
Page 33: Page 34: I don't know how much has changed since their conviction, but I would assume that, even if they aren't allowed to do exactly that anymore, they've just found workarounds to achieve the same results (as evidenced here).Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:4, Funny)
I don't agree with that at all (Score:2)
While Microsoft justifiably gets ripped for their bad software (Hello Windows Vista, the Biblical Plague of operating systems), the fact is they make some really good software too. Sharepoint is popular for a reason. Office had marketing help beating out Wordperfect Suite, but frankly, it was better than WS. Windows Server 2003 was good, and Server 2008 looks like it may be great. So it's not like Microsoft
Re: (Score:2)
If it is anti-competitive it is.
"The funny thing about open source is that you don't have to promote it to end users. "
Yes you do, this is WHY it's getting adopted, promotion.
"So why is everyone fretting? Just sit back and enjoy the ride. "
That's a great way for the ride to come to an end.
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:12 GB HDD Vs 20 GB HDD (Score:4, Informative)
Checking the ASUS online store in Australia.. http://www.asusnotebook.com.au/eee-pc.php
I see the following:
Both models have 20GB of storage
Windows Version is $799 AUD
Linux Version is $649 AUD
If you pre-order now.
So I think they have not checked their facts!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
From my personal perspective I have no interest in thi
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Shameless plug for a local by a local (Score:5, Interesting)
I've bought all my stuff from them for well over a decade. They opened a shop when I lived in Bayswater, had doom parties, piles of second hand stuff, kept the local teenagers busy, ect. They become pretty big now and lost a bit of that garage feel but they are still light years ahead of ASUS. I've lived by the beach now for ~3yrs but still browse online and pick it up from the warehouse. Not even sure the same guys own it but they will sell you a naked PC, pre-configured, built to order, pre-installed distro, distro on disc, windows, whaterver your poision,,,err...passion.
I've had problems but I've had them fixed without fuss.
Disclaimer: I've been a proffesional developer for ~20yrs. The only relationship I have with bitronics is as a customer, caveate emptor, shop around, and all that.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Awesome! That means a less-expensive Linux model! (Score:4, Interesting)
When I buy computers in general, I buy it with the smallest drive and least amount of RAM possible. I know I'm going to upgrade anyway, but the prices the OEMs charge for RAM upgrades and larger drives is ridiculous. Buying with the intent of upgrading is a nice way to save some money if you have the skill and confidence to open it up.
By the way... probably not a correct place to put this new information, but yesterday I came across something that shocked the hell out of me. On Dell's support site, I discovered that not only is there a DOS/Windows BIOS update utility for the Precision M4300, but a Linux version as well!! That has got to be the first Linux BIOS update utility I have ever seen. Perhaps others have seen this, but it was a first for me and Dell is doing it. Unfortunately, my Latitude doesn't have the Linux BIOS update method available yet so I'm still booting from flash drive DOS for updates, but perhaps it's only a matter of time.
Re:Awesome! That means a less-expensive Linux mode (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The key phrase in the OP is "price conscious Australians", in another post I recommended a local mob who will sell you whatever you want including naked PC's and parts, I did that because like you $50 is no problem, I pay that for a teenager to wash the car at the shopping center every now and then. But I've been fortunate and the computer industry has kept me warm, fed, and in a clean car for ~20yrs now. The last 10 was mostly just me and my daughter, the last 5 just me, the
Re:Awesome! That means a less-expensive Linux mode (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Or we might tell you that you can buy all of the External Hard Drives you want, and it would have quite literally nothing to do with this discussion. You clearly don't know the many differences between internal bootable FLASH storage and an external USB device, FLASH or otherwise. For example, data throughput is orders
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to mention the battery hit.
Re: (Score:2)
porl
(apples != oranges); (Score:2)
Re:Awesome! That means a less-expensive Linux mode (Score:2)
Props to dell tho, for having a standard way to update their bios, rather than every manufacturer releasing their own crummy dos based update program which expect to boot from floppy and requires you to make your own dos based boot disk.
Re:Awesome! That means a less-expensive Linux mode (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
When I buy computers in general, I buy it with the smallest drive and least amount of RAM possible. I know I'm going to upgrade anyway, but the prices the OEMs charge for RAM upgrades and larger drives is ridiculous. Buying with the intent of upgrading is a nice way to save some money if you have the skill and confidence to open it up.
The RAM is upgradable (and you don't have a choice in how much it comes with; that's fixed at 1GB for the 900), but the SSD is not upgradeable (except for, I think, the 8GB 710). Therefore, the doubled SSD size (I suspect the 4GB will be a restore device, like the 0.5GB of the "4GB" 710 that I own, where I only really have 3.5GB to use) is really quite important. I had to shoehorn things a bit to get all the stuff I wanted out of the Ubuntu repos (which is admittedly quite a bit; I'm pleasantly surprised
As an early adopter of the Eee PC (Score:5, Interesting)
The Eee PC was my first step out of the MS upgrade treadmill nightmare, and you want to pull me right back? Sorry, no can do.
Re:As an early adopter of the Eee PC (Score:5, Insightful)
"Commitment" to Linux? Are you serious?
ASUS are a for-profit corporation. They're going to do whatever it takes to sell the most computers at the greatest profit. In the case of the Eee, they found that they could sell a computer without windows as long as it was extremely inexpensive.
If Microsoft offers an incentive to bundle Windows with their entry-level laptop, Asus are going to take it, as it adds value to their product. They'd be stupid not to.
Note here that you can still very easily install linux on the Windows machine, and that the Linux model is only $50AUD extra, and includes 8gb extra flash storage (which is probably easily worth the $50 extra to most customers).
Re: (Score:2)
Even though some customers will buy them an install XP or Windows 2000, there will be plenty who try it with the installed distro.
Re: (Score:2)
It's because ... (Score:5, Funny)
Could this actually be good for linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
In this case, the Linux option is more expensive, and demonstrably superior (larger storage, boots quicker, comes with a much wider selection of applications). How many people will consider the extra $50 worth it for a significantly better package?
Also perhaps people might like to buy the cheaper windows version, and then "pirate" linux to get some of the additional features only usually available on the more expensive model?
Re:Could this actually be good for linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
Good idea. Maybe someone should set up a "PirateLinux.com" website to help consumers find various versions of Linux for free.
In my country, we call that dumping (Score:4, Insightful)
Good for ASUS (Score:2)
Good for ASUS. Microsoft is putting pressure on ASUS so what do they do? Easy. In the North America the Linux model with more storage space is cheaper than the Microsoft Model. In Europe the Linux model with more storage space is cheaper than the Microsoft Model.
In Australia what
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously. You're going to have to do better than that. Last I checked, this is how all capitalist businesses operate, and you can't really fault them for attempting to promote their product.
The Eee has been "successful" in small circles. I sincerely doubt that the Eee has even remotely penetrated the notebook market worldwide, in terms of marketshare percentage.
At the moment, Microsoft are freaking out about Apple. The Eee isn't (yet) wort
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, and there's the whole convicted monopoly part. Convicted monopolies are supposed to play by different rules.
Crapware? (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux always cheaper than Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have to waste time scanning for malware constantly or defragging my linux box, so I save time.
I don't have to buy additional commercial software and pay for license keys or trust closed binary warezed alternatives.
In the long run, no matter how much you pay in the store, Linux saves you money and time.
And I don't support a convicted monopoly who has a history of criminal activities across the globe.
Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
IMHO, the biggest reason is to give a clear message that you don't want Windows. People are scrapping their default Windows installs for Linux all the time, but this won't change the huge market share of Windows, which in turn affects hardware and software makers.
Re: (Score:2)
asus moves toward obscurity (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
cost comparison .. (Score:2)
Get What Exactly? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no crime there! The retailer's job is to offer what the consumer wants with no regard about the wisdom of their choices. When Shuttleworth has enough money to advertise Linux everywhere like IBM did, then the retailer might go for it. Furthermore, the retailer specs the machines far more than the average consumer may comprehend.
While it's interesting to see that they are going cheap on storage to get the price point, it shows that Asus is still getting screwed by Microsoft. You can calculate the spread if you guestimate the OEM in quantity costs of the two drives.
asus feels the push of the atom generation cpu (Score:2)
However they made the mistake of giving the linux and MS boxes different specs. Why is a mystery to
me.
Did you note there is also a generation of 200euro laptops with linux on them, but with a non-intel compaible cpu?
Find the holes!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Find the holes!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Eee should be light, not heavy, in OS (Score:3, Interesting)
However, the whole point of the Asus Eee PC is that it is a stripped down unit for common tasks, generally net-based. You write a letter or short text on an Eee, you surf the net, you check your email, maybe SSH into a UNIX host.
For this, even for longtime Windows users, a light implementation of Linux is probably better. There are fewer licensing issues. All necessary tools are built in. It can maximize the limited processor, memory and disk of the Eee.
I could see installing Windows 2000 on one, sort of, but in my experience, the overhead of Linux is a lot less because it does not have to support binaries from the past 3500 generations of Windows.
Please, let us return to sanity. You may want Windows XP on your full-size HP laptop, but on your Eee, go light.
See:
Asus Micro Laptop Brings Linux to Desktop [chrisblanc.org]
Asus Eee PC now on Sale on NewEgg (Score:3, Informative)
ASUS Eee PC 900 12G XP and the ASUS Eee PC 900 20G each sell for $549.99. If you prefer Windows XP you get 8GB less of flash memory. Besides that difference both Asus Eee PC 900 are the same.
More details [i4u.com].
Art. 82 EC - Abuse of a dominent possition (Score:3, Informative)
Unfortunately it's in Austrlia.
Try it here, I dare you.
Matt
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Regarding the UK, it might be possible to get damages from a UK court as Art. 82 is directly applicable (it is after all a treaty article and regulation) and thus has horizontal effect.
One would expect enforcement in a UK court to provide a little more than just a civil award between competitors. If you follow the obiter from Garden Cottage Foods which hints at individual rememdy, Courage v Crehan should apply?
Suggestions?
Asus creates then loses the "Eee pc" market? (Score:4, Insightful)
Asus seem to be determined to lose this new market they created (so new it hardly even has a name) as quickly as they created it. At $500-600 this is now competing with traditional laptops - an underpowered competitor in a large field as opposed to owning a new category they created. Seems dumb to me.
Pricing the Windows model below the Linux one seems to be another bizarre step in the wrong direction.I assumed they were using Linux for the strategic/pricing advantage it gave, but they just threw that advantage out of the window.
Oh, well... at least Asus proved there is a market for a cheap & cheerful $249 notebook / internet appliance... I guess it'll be up to another company to actually take advantage of that market!
Microsoft's illegally maintaining its monopoly (Score:3, Insightful)
DOJ, Europe, are you paying attention?
It is financially impossible for the "for profit" companies ASUS and Microsoft, to team up and replace a free component (Linux) and bring the cost of a product lower with a new component (Windows) UNLESS Microsoft is paying to keep Linux out of the hands of consumers. This is selling Windows below market value to eliminate competition. This is illegal in any nation that has anti-monopolist laws like U.S.A and the members of the European union.
Will the DOJ and the European agencies please do something about this!?! It harms the very fabric of the computer industry.
You can smell Balmer's sweat from here. (Score:3, Interesting)
First, Microsoft is forced to backpedal on it's announced kill-off of XP, I suspect precisely because of the introduction of the ASUS eee. (Balmer didn't anticipate a popular move to machines which deliberately sport lower power. Vista was released on the assumption that machines keep getting faster and stronger, and lamer companies like HP were happy enough to oblige by designing their "2133 Mininote" to handle Vista, which is why they're going to fail to achieve any sort of dominance. The hip and trendy market, while usually as silly and as easily misled as a highschool girl, are surprisingly astute when it comes to matters of intent with regard to wanna-be pretenders. (Crocks still sell like hotcakes, but the next factory-formed plastic sandal-thing which is basically identical but made by the wrong company gets the brush-off.) --And who'd have thunk that the next big thing in computers was going to appeal to the iPod user market where what kind of operating system being used is kind of, 'who cares?' (My girlfriend would be happy with a pink eee, and doesn't know a Linux from a Window. It's the device, not the OS which counts.)
So it's damage control time! MS awkwardly announces the extension of the XP life line. But that's not good enough, because ASUS announced the now famous deal, (the eee900 with Linux costs the same as XP but has a bigger drive.) You just know a number of MS employees have had some late nights and stomach troubles over that one. So now they're not just extending the XP life, but actually giving it away just to maintain their hold on the public perception. And I wonder. . . How many Linux-baked eee's does it take to shift the paradigm with regard to OS's? We may not find out as soon as I'd like if this latest desperation move by MS pans out. At least, not this year anyhow. (How far off is the next new Microsoft OS from release? Ha ha. That's Balmer's stress response you can smell in the wind over Redmond.)
Australia also has a test-bed sort of feel to it, but I can't point to anything which confirms this. Just a feeling.
In any case, I find it fascinating how all of these moves have been put together within just a few weeks. There must have been some heated international telephone calls and business meets going on. None of this has had the time to gestate like a normal evil corporate plan. It feels young and fresh and desperate and nobody knows how it will all turn out. Cool! (I'd be happy if ASUS continued to ship another few million eee700's with Linux on them, introducing a new flavor of OS to the public in the form of an easy-to-use and fast booting OS. That'll make them ask when it comes time to buy their next laptop or desktop, "How come it has to come with Windows? Can't you just sell me one with one with something like my eee had? I should get a discount that way, shouldn't I?").
And that's all a fairly grand achievement for ASUS, even if it was unintentional; to make Microsoft dance around in fear of losing its legitimacy with the young & trendy market? That's hilarious!
Anybody else see that video of the two eee700's booting up next to each other, one with Linux and one with XP? Saving an extra 20 seconds of your life every time you hit 'On' is easily worth $50. And so is the extra drive space. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out over the next few months. For my part, I'm still waiting for that Atom chip. . .
-FL
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How? (Score:5, Insightful)
To me, the whole point of the eee is that it finally lets linux and windows have an unbiased competition with the market for judge: people won't just keep windows because it's preinstalled ( except of course taking linux still means "switching" to something less familliar).
If I was australian and wanted to buy one, I'd throw in the extra cash to show that linux users exist as a demographic.
Re:How? (Score:4, Insightful)
And this demonstrates that we will never have unbiased (or fair) competition as long as one of the competitors is Microsoft.
So play 'em at their own game. Hold installfests in the parking lots of places selling the things. Whoop it up. FOSS isn't driven by "market share," it's driven by the passion of its developers and users. It isn't going anywhere.
Microsoft may be able to point at some meaningless marketing numbers and say "see, people are choosing Windows, even when Linux is more expensive" and I bet some PHBs will even think that statement makes sense. Doesn't matter, Microsoft will run out of money eventually and FOSS will still be there.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You can pitch it as "Hey, you can upgrade your Eee to Linux for *free*!". People love free stuff.
Re:How? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am Australian and I would do the same if I wanted one.
This is a bit off the topic of the original story, but hopefully relates to the thread.
Another good trick I used just recently to show that there is a market for Linux in Australia is to complain about the OEM OS that comes machines from the viewpoint of statutory warranty.
I bought a notebook which, according to the display in the shop, came with Vista Home Premium. According to MS, Vista home premium has excellent repair tools and can be installed on a 40GB partition, but the version on my notebook could only be installed by wiping the entire machine and taking up the 150GB of the 160 GB disk.
I argued that what they gave me was not Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium as advertised. I pointed out that the box including the term "OEM" did not fully explain the limitations of the included software and that reasonable research into Vista on the Microsoft site gave me a completely different idea of what I was buying. It wasn't until after I opened the box, installed Linux and then wanted to put Vista on a 40GB partition for testing purposes that I found out about the limitations, and then it was only after I called support.
After a several conversations with customer service and tech support, I finally got them to pay for full installation media from Microsoft. I know MS still got their money, but the story has spread through the OEM about how Ubuntu is easier to use and quicker on my notebook than Vista and I have soured the relationship further between MS and a supplier, which according to some candid conversations with support and business people within the supplier is already pretty sour.
I should stress that all the way through the process I was polite. Every time customer service attempted to transfer me to tech support, I explained that the problem was not a technical one, but a business one, namely that they had to provide Vista Home Premium as described on the Microsoft site or they were in breach of the statutory warranty. Every time they said "We don't support downgrading the unit," I politely corrected them, informing them I had upgraded it. Every time they made reference to the "recovery partition", I corrected them telling them that from a customer's point of view wiping the entire system clean is no recovery.
Sure I am only one person, but seeing as you can no longer get a refund for just the OS on an OEM product, if everyone does what I have done instead of silently installing Linux, the manufacturers will start to see that there is a market for desktop Linux here.
Re: (Score:2)
stop buying windows period.
Of cousrse they're subsidizing (Score:5, Informative)
To keep people using XP, MS is probably giving away (or close to it) the licenses to ASUS. Combined with the fact that the Xandros is a commercial distro that Asus needs to provide updates for and the additional 8GB of space in the Linux version, it's not terribly suprising.
I'm typing this post on an EEE 4G now, and I'm really pleased with the built in Xandros. Lightweight, Word/Excel/PowerPoint compatible, not prone to viruses. If I was in the market for a new EEE for the price difference and the ability to dual boot with no additional cost I'd probably buy the Windows version and put Ubuntu on it. I have a few Windows specific apps still...
Re:Of cousrse they're subsidizing (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How? (Score:5, Interesting)
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar offer here, plus another offer for selling only the Windows Eees in "select retailers".
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Are you kidding? Getting Windows to run on a new piece of hardware is a shitload of work. Among other things, out of the box, Windows lacks a lot of drivers.
Standard Linux distributions basically just boots on the Eee PC (I installed Ubuntu on mine) with essentially no extra work or customization, and installing it is a few clicks.
Re:Forget the cost of production (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all about public perception. The Linux machine can't run Windows apps (at least I don't think WINE's included, and WINE's never a good answer to that problem anyway.) Therefore, it's worse in many people's eyes.
So, now, the Linux machine is more expensive, and perceived to be worse.
This is not good if you want Linux to succeed in the marketplace.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Forget the cost of production (Score:4, Insightful)
Almost everything they do is web-based and no-one's going to bat an eye once they're told that OpenOffice is $0, works almost exactly like MS Office and can open/save to MS Office documents without a hitch. (Sure, there are exceptions to that, but average consumer isn't going to run into those obscure issues.)
The average consumer might even get outright excited when you mention that merely using Firefox on Xandros gives them better protection from virii and malware than XP, even if they'd paid for a copy of Norton or McAfee. (And without the slowdowns, compatibility problems and hassle of those packages)
And since the eee PC is an intensely personal sort of kit, it's doubtful that Joe or Jane Six-pack is going to pass on it just because it won't supplant the family PC that their kids run games on.
The eee PC simply doesn't have to match up to XP like desktop linux would. It doesn't have to solve all of someone's computing needs. It just needs to be good at the tasks people want a subnotebook for (almost entirely web usage and basic document creation).
A herring incarnadine... (Score:5, Insightful)
Red herring. This isn't about us, it's about Microsoft buying market share.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
More than what? Ubuntu, for instance? Just because the price of Windows has been artificially inflated for years, that doesn't mean that Linux vendors need to adopt the same pricing strategy.
Let me answer that by selling you a packet of gum. For you, I have a special low, low price of ten million dollars, but I'll settle for everything you own in the world, plus ten
Re: (Score:2)
Because Linux is free and Windows isn't. Rainwater is better than tap water, you pay for tap water, surely you won't mind paying more for rainwater?
I bet they had to hire an entire Engineering staff
If gambling was legal here Id take you to the cleaners on that bet. BTW, which division of Microsoft do you work for? Me, I work for the marketing division of GNU.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Balmer: I... drink... your... milkshake!
[sucking sound]
Balmer: I drink it up!
Linux people: Don't bully me, Steve!
Re:Hear hear (Score:4, Informative)
But for many years it used to be Microsoft's best selling point in comparison to Linux:
Windows and Microsoft applications in general are easy to get started with. Only recently, Linux distributions (especially Ubuntu) have managed to catch up in that regard. If you want to sell to a wide audience, an "easy" interface is good.
Of course, it should also have an easily accessible terminal emulation so the gurus can hack on their config files
Re:Hear hear (Score:4, Insightful)
I am concerned that those unfamiliar with Linux will see this and conclude that Linux is expensive rather than
MS has done a good job of making Windows look like the best choice, and IMO this should be investigated using lawyers and stuff as it makes no sense whatsoever if you look at it from the point of view that MS would never stoop to any dirty tricks. Of course, if you are even a tiny bit cynical you can't help but see that this is obviously a questionable business deal that needs to be investigated by those that would destroy monopolies.
Re: (Score:2)
And when Asus touts about Linux being user-friendly and point and click oriented, then how come it is still MS sitting on the shelves?
There is no mocking of MS - they are the ones at gaining edge.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Of course, it should also have an easily accessible terminal emulation so the gurus can hack on their config files ;-)
Ctrl-Alt-T brings up an xterm and there are two tools called "Easy Mode Editor" and TweakEE that allow other things to be changed including changing the xterm to something nicer like Konsole.
I've considerably tweaked the one I'm using. OpenOffice 2.4 instead of the included 2.0. I built the latest MPlayer from Debian Unstable on an Etch* machine with all codecs and so-forth enabled and i
On the "Ease" of Windows/Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
After awhile, she began to really value the power Linux provided to her over the hand-holding Windows takes. We recently purchased a Eee for her. She installed KDE on it herself. Her only compla
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
To stay with the CD Rom example, the average newbie will be happy with a nice GUI where he can drag and drop some files and hit the "burn" button. Most burn programs I've encountered over the years provide that.
On the other hand, the experience changes when you use Microsoft stuff seriously. Then you will start to notice all the little inconsistencies and old bugs that hav
Re: (Score:2)
That's PRAISE, not flak! Asus needs to sell their product to the GENERAL PUBLIC, not to a few geeks who (should) be smart enough to IGNORE adverts and judge the machine on its own merits.
Introducing "children" and "users with limited computer experience" to a positive Linux experience is arguably more important for widespread adoption
Re: (Score:2)
the same price of the 8.9" EEE....
But instead of really long battery life, a drop proof solid state hard drive, you get a bigger heavier laptop with shorter battery life and maybe a 3 year hard drive life.
The small form factor, long battery life, and full features (Not a PDA) is the attraction for these machines. These features at this price point is nice.