Negroponte Says Windows 'Runs Well' On XO Laptop

Stony Stevenson alerts us to comments from OLPC founder Nicholas Negroponte indicating his approval of Windows' performance on the XO laptop. Negroponte said in an email, "Sugar needs a wider basis, to run on more Linux platforms and to run under Windows." The full email is available at OLPC News. He was also quoted by the Associated Press as saying that Sugar "didn't have a software architect who did it in a crisp way," and cited the lack of Flash as an example. Negroponte continued, "There are several examples like that, that we have to address without worrying about the fundamentalism in some of the open-source community. One can be an open-source advocate without being an open-source fundamentalist."

Lack of Flash?!?!?!

Sorry, he's citing lack of Flash as an example of open source failing?!??!

The reason they went with Gnash in the first place was because the Adobe Flash player needs more CPU power than the entire damn machine had available.

How is hell is MS's bloatware supposed to fix that?

Re:Lack of Flash?!?!?!

How is hell is MS's bloatware supposed to fix that?

Mystically, with an infusion of Bill Gates $$$ up the orifice, like any other Kool-Aid©.

Power Power Power and infrastructure

You nailed it. The key insight of the OLPC was that it needed to be ultra-low power and not rely on a lot of infrastructure. e.g. it's not so easy to run out and buy a USB cable on Nahru.

Thus I always chuckle when I see comparisons to this or that better performing laptop. Of course it's possible to get cheap and faster by going to high power. And you can add more features again by adding power. They were going for cheap and low power.

I think what may have happened here is that windows is now learning to play nice with flash memory and windows CE is presumably learning to play nice with batteries.

The other thing is that the world is moving towards cloud computing. Now while their may not be a cloud available to bushmen in Nairobi. it's not unthinkable that schools might be able to serve apps locally. And MS is building that infrastructure.

So maybe Microsoft is up to the task.

The problem MS will face I suspect is that they lack an agile resizable code base like Linux and Apple have. Windows CE and Windows XP only are simmilar in their look. So this may be a complete blank sheet. Sure XP will run but will it meet the original driver of low power? I suspect not out of the box otherwise it would be Window CE instead.

But MS does have the dowry and an incentive. And the OLPC does need the cash. So it might be a successful arranged marriage. Or maybe it will be one of those Weddings where the groom tosses the bride on the funeral pyre.

Re:Power Power Power and infrastructure

So maybe Microsoft is up to the task.

Are you nuts man? Maybe Microsoft is up to the task of total world domination, you mean. This is totally a farce! They want to train the 3rd world to use the Monopoly software so that they can continue their evil ambitions on into the far future - that's all.

But MS does have the dowry and an incentive. And the OLPC does need the cash.

I am really, really pissed off that Negroponte has sold out to the Monopoly. I mean - sorry to call you nuts, but I don't think you realize what you are saying. It's just monstrous that the Monopoly has the cash to corrupt every person on this planet! All these poor people in the 3rd world - they could start a revolution with Linux! I mean - they could p0wn it! They could do something with their miserable lives, instead of being locked into the Monopoly.

Re:Power Power Power and infrastructure

There are no bushmen [wildways.iway.na] in Nairobi [kijabe.org]. Bushmen are hunter-gatherers in southern Africa. Nairobi is a modern metropolis in east Africa.

Re:Lack of Flash?!?!?!

The reason they went with Gnash in the first place was because the Adobe Flash player needs more CPU power than the entire damn machine had available.

Flash runs fine on my XO. It's easy to install it and use it instead of Gnash.

The lack of Flash is a really stupid argument against OLPC design, though. I don't think there's anything--legal or technical--to keep a school or country from mass-installing Flash for themselves, even if OLPC doesn't.

Re:Lack of Flash?!?!?!

Stop. Think about the meaning of the words you are using. Select correct words. Continue.

If I actually thought about the meaning of words I'm using, then I'd never be able to use the word "fartknocker". So I simply find your advice impractical.

Re:Lack of Flash?!?!?!

What are you, some kind of language fundamentalist?

Wow

Negroponte decrying fundamentalism. That's rich.

just remember nicholas

you can't get a little bit pregnant

What version

I don't doubt that Windows 3.1 runs fine under VirtualBox running in Linux... Of course that might have been mentioned in the article, but who reads that anyway?

Poor software design???

Is he trying to make us believe that they couldn't get a decent software architect at MIT??? I really have to wonder how many zeros were in the check that Ballmer wrote him.

Two models

If XP can't run well on the ASUS EePC, then I doubt it runs well on the XO. This letter is all hype.

Frankly, I think the OLPC project did a great job with their first release, but realize it is only a first release. I think they should diverge and release two models next time.

Model A is closer to the $100 price tag, and will sell better in certain countries. Features should be comparable to the current XO model, but flash memory, processors, etc. keep getting cheaper.

Model B is slightly closer to the ASUS in processing power and storage. Shape, chassis, etc. can all stay the same. It won't match the ASUS model, since power usage is a major concern. But if it were slightly more powerful, you might see a KDE build optimized for it, or maybe even a toned-down version of Windows.

Being able to support a more robust Linux distro, AND the possibility of Windows will be a huge selling point. If they can get a Model B at $250 a pop, they'd sell a ton of these as well.

Re:Two models

The problem is the resolution. A standard XP window will not fit and you will loose the bottom buttons or the top buttons/menu.

The performance is fine. He even plays a few fps games on it.

Apple

Apple was willing to provide the OS for free, but were denied because it wouldn't be open source. Now Windows is OK?

This is what happens when you call it a "Laptop"

If they had called it "One E-book Per Child" and then all people would have is praise. "Wow, they were just trying to give an e-book to every child in the world, but look at all this other cool stuff it does!"

But no.

XO: Best Laptop for Windows

If Windows runs well on an XO laptop, then that makes the XO laptop the best PC in the world. Because I've never seen Windows run well on any other machine.

Maybe it "runs well" because it doesn't run at all. Probably the only way to get it to run in a "secure mode", anyway.

I couldn't agree more

One can be an open-source advocate without being an open-source fundamentalist.

How true, how true. I couldn't agree more. Open source is like so many things (human rights and the lead free nonsense come to mind) where some people go overboard and just take it way too far. I mean, sure, having your kid chew on a hunk of lead isn't going to be good for them. For one thing, it's not very nutritions. But some people take this way too far, and say that something that is 98% corn syrup with only a trace of lead is just as bad.

Humbug.

I think it is perfectly possible to be an open source advocate without getting all fundamentalist about it, just like you can support human rights but not get too worked up about the occasional state sponsored rape, torture, genocide, or whatever. The important thing is that you advocate the right side on the broader issue, not that you pay any attention to any specific exceptions.

And besides, what's the big deal about open source anyway? Big deal.. It's not like it was free software, or anything.

--MarkusQ

No big deal

When this constructionism project started and they were testing laptops in Cambodia I'll bet they were running Windows. Everyone needs to keep in mind that its not about the laptop or the software but the educational project. Arguably Open Source Software and the ideology of the project go hand in hand, but one is not absolutely necessary for the other.

I read the letter on the OLPC site and the article about Windows running well on the XO, but I couldn't get to the article that mentioned flash. Flash in my opinion is the scourge of the internet these days, and don't go off on a youtube rant, internet video and streaming codecs were available before flash.

From what I've read nothing has really changed, Windows on OLPC was in the works and it doesn't mean that linux will be dumped. So much for the sensationalist headlines. You have media outlets and scumbag corporate leaders who will juice this for all its worth but really it means nothing.

I will say that it appears from Negroponte's message that there may be some friction between the Sugar developers and Negroponte probably concerning the porting of Sugar to Windows. He is welcome to his view but really it has absolutely nothing to do with Open Source Fundamentalism.

If the open source developers of Sugar are balking at porting their work to Windows it should be no surprise, unless you've been living in a vacuum for the past 10 years. The Microsoft Corporation has not only been found guilty of using illegal business tactics to destroy competition in the market to maintain their ludicrous profit margins but they have also been on a non-stop PR harassment campaign specifically targeted against the same developers who wrote Sugar.

In the end it matters not, if Negroponte wants Sugar on Windows all he has to do is ask that wealthy corporation to invest some of their ill gotten gains in porting the open source code themselves. After all, its not like Microsoft's developers aren't used to leeching off the open source community to support their proprietary products. What would be interesting is seeing the response he gets to using open source code in a high profile project considering Microsoft has labeled it a cancer.

Re:Screw Sugar

The one thing I rather like about Sugar, is that the interface was designed to be accessible in countries lacking proper localization, using symbols heavily in the interface, and by representing data graphically perhaps moreso than via text in some places.

It also allows young children who can't read to interface with the computer in a meaningful way.

Sugar was also designed around mesh-networking, power-consumption, e-reader mode, etc.

Certainly there is room for improvement, but Puppy/Slack/DSL would not have been a perfect implementation either.

Re:Screw Sugar

Well, first off for such a bland-looking GUI, it's certainly slow. Xubuntu on the same hardware runs a good bit faster than Sugar/fedora. The wifi neighborhood view is nice, except that when WPA doesn't work you're left out in the cold. Once they fix the WPA issues that'll be satisfactory. The activities are ok, though the activity frame can get annoying when you accidentally hit a corner with the cursor and make it pop up.

The biggest problem is the Journal. Personally I find it far more confusing than a hierarchical file system. More often than not I find myself using the terminal which, by the way, doesn't seem to allow copy and paste.

A conventional computer isn't hard to figure out, even for the very young. Beyond basic functionality, I think sugar will hinder learning more than anything, given how tough it can be to do even very basic things.

Re:Screw Sugar

It's not like the XO is DRM'ed and you can't install anything else.

Actually it is DRM'ed. You can't just install anything you want, you have to first get a developer key to unlock it before you can do so, else it will only allow installation of officially signed OLPC stuff and nothing else.

Re:And with this...

Apparently the most popular use of the XO model in test-cases I've read is the camera. Apparently kids in Africa see tourists with cameras, but likely never had any access to document or record their lives before.

The camera can record brief bits of video. I wouldn't be shocked if users are peeved they can't upload said videos to sites like YouTube. I think that is a valid reason to ask for Flash support.

don't I know it

I've fallen out with some friends because even though I'm an open source developer, and have been for the last five years, I'm still in favour of closed source for some applications.

I am both amazed and dismayed by the extent to which such issues effect people.

Not only that, but almost everyone I know who has been what I would call a rabid opponent of proprietary code haven't themselves released any open source code. They just download the free stuff and get angry about the non free code without a single opinion that wasn't borrowed from someone else.

It seems to me that the fashion is that open source == hates proprietary. This is a nieve viewpoint in my opinion.

Re:don't I know it

Among the same lines:

According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, Apple boss Steve Jobs offered to equip each of the machines with a gratis copy of Mac OS X.
Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT and one of the project's founders, said the scheme had refused Jobs' offer on the grounds that Mac OS X is a proprietary system.
Papert told the WSJ: "We declined because it's not open source," adding the $100 laptop creators will only choose an operating system where the source code is open and can be altered.

This is what Steve Wozniac had to say a while ago:

I was on a panel with Nicholas in Seoul this year and admired the fact that he'd turned down an offer from Jobs for the Macintosh OS on the OLPC because it wasn't open sourced. I both donated to the program and also bought the give-one get-one and I do have it.

I wonder how he feels about the project now that they are going to use XP...