Ready for a CyberWalk?

Roland Piquepaille writes "Even with recent improvements in virtual reality technology, it's still almost impossible to physically walk through virtual environments. Now, European researchers have started a project named CyberWalk and they'll demonstrate next week their omni-directional treadmill, named CyberCarpet. According to ICT Results, the researchers 'had to address five key issues: providing a surface to walk on, controlling the surface in a way that minimized forces on the user, developing a non-intrusive tracking system, displaying a high-quality visualization, and ensuring a natural human perception of the virtual environment.' The researchers think that their new virtual environments would be used by architects and the gaming industry." Additional details are also available via the project website.

holodeck time!

[ILuvRamen (1026668)]

Yay, now we finally have the final key to making a holodeck! Oh wait, we need holographic projects too, darn! *puts down his actual +2 claymore* Actually I'm pretty sure there's no way for this to convince someone it's real. You know that the ground is moving under you when you take a step so you'll always know you're not really going anywhere. Plus, people can sense acceleration. If this thing was to work at a full run plus jumping and quick corners like virtual basketball or something, it would simp

Can fool accelleration sensors.

[Ungrounded Lightning (62228)]

Actually I'm pretty sure there's no way for this to convince someone it's real. You know that the ground is moving under you when you take a step so you'll always know you're not really going anywhere. Plus, people can sense acceleration.

Which is mostly done in the inner ear: Three "rate gyros" per ear (the semicircular canals) plus three linear accelleration sensors ditto (nerve cells with calcified masses on the ends).

But it turns out these can be fooled by elecrtostimulus from varying magnetic fields generated by coils mounted on a headpiece near them.

There has been at least one slashdot article on these - including adding them to a headpiece to mimic the head acceleration that would match a moving screen image to reduce "barfogenisis" and improve simulation game experience. Adding them to a 3-D VR simulation would be the next logical step.

With wall screens and projection onto the moving floor you could create the necessary visual illusion.

Gettin' there ... gettin' there ...

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[ILuvRamen (1026668)]

yeah, I was thinking about matching it with the opposite signal in the ear/brain but I kid you not, the first thing I thought was well that's not how they do it on Star Trek cuz some alien species don't have the same inner ear structure.

Re:Can fool accelleration sensors.

[tlhIngan (30335)]

Actually I'm pretty sure there's no way for this to convince someone it's real. You know that the ground is moving under you when you take a step so you'll always know you're not really going anywhere. Plus, people can sense acceleration.

Which is mostly done in the inner ear: Three "rate gyros" per ear (the semicircular canals) plus three linear accelleration sensors ditto (nerve cells with calcified masses on the ends).

But it turns out these can be fooled by elecrtostimulus from varying magnetic fields generated by coils mounted on a headpiece near them.

Actually, you can fool them quite easily, as any pilot knows. "Spatial disorientation" has downed many aircraft, usually because the pilot thinks the aircraft is doing one thing (flying straight and level), when it's really doing something else (descending/turning, or ascending/turning leading to stall).

One trick done during training is having the instructor do a maneuver like a turn continually for a minute or two, then ask the pilot to level the aircraft (by feel). The end result is quite... interesting. Let it continue for a minute, and the aircraft will be in a very strange attitude. Another thing is to simply let the pilot fly blind, by feel, and see what trouble it leads into.

It's why IFR pilots must trust their instruments and not their gut feel.

I don't see why you can't apply similar tricks into this to make it realistic. After all, those simulator rides feel pretty damn real even though the cabin only moves a few feet each way.

CyberCarpet

[vrmlguy (120854)]

I'm interested in their omni-directional treadmill, CyberCarpet. I've tried to design something like this, but I inevitably wind up with a ten-foot (three meter, for our foreign friends) sphere that the user walks upon/within.

Re:CyberCarpet

[Ungrounded Lightning (62228)]

There was a science fiction short story involving just such a reverse trackball - though larger than ten feet - being used to trap a victim. Once on the ball, feedback rotated the ball to bring him to the center and keep him there, no matter how he ran, jumped, or dodged.

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[CopaceticOpus (965603)]

Interesting concept. Anyone know what story it was?

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[steelfood (895457)]

This would be highly unlikely without a large enough ball.

In order to "escape," you would need to jump the distance from the center to the edge. Or, effectively run with long leaping strides faster than the ball can roll. Since there's no friction between you and the surface while you are in the air, the only time the ball can return to the center is when the person has landed. If you immediately jump forward again, then either you will eventually get to the edge of the ball.

If the ball's movement is depend

Re:CyberCarpet is small spheres?

[euri.ca (984408)]

Since the video is "Coming Soon", does anyone know if this is a carpet of small spheres then?

That also works, and would explain why the hard part was keeping track of which way you were walking.

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[luder (923306)]

There are videos of prototypes in youtube:

Omni-Directional Treadmill, June 28, 2007 [youtube.com] (not sure if it is from the same project)
Cyberwalk Project, December 20, 2007 [youtube.com]

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[megaditto (982598)]

How about a giant hamster ball with the user inside? No need to maintain dynamic equillibrium, so much easier to control one would think.

But even better than that would be to tie your user's feet to 3-d force feedback actuators: pretty much model it after an elliptical trainer, but with an independent drive for each leg with an added ability to perform lateral translations.

sphere = infinite plane

[Arthur B. (806360)]

While this is definitely cool, I prefer the simple and elegant solution of walking inside a sphere.

Re:sphere = infinite plane

[roscivs (923777)]

While this is definitely cool, I prefer the simple and elegant solution of walking inside a sphere.

And there are actual implementations, e.g.:
http://www.virtusphere.com/ [virtusphere.com]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTnnJR-hS7k [youtube.com]

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[4D6963 (933028)]

While this is definitely cool, I prefer the simple and elegant solution of walking inside a sphere.

Yeah, cause walking on a curved surface feels exactly like walking on a plane. Makes me wonder why I don't take walks in that giant hamster ball whenever it's raining outside..

Not new

[nodrogluap (165820)]

We have a CAVE at our work, and the company that does the maintenance told me about and showed pictures of a 6 meter omnidirectional rolling carpet with VR display they built for the U.S. military. They were even trying to get wind and dust in the environment, but it would gunk up the works. It was probably a one-off though, whereas this new stuff seems to be going towards "commodity" vr.

Is this slashdot?

[eepok (545733)]

Somehow I didn't expect a link to a treadmill to be so quickly slashdotted. O.o

Wii 2?

[billy901 (1158761)]

The minds at Nintendo will quickly pick this up and expand on their Wii. People thought that the Wii was far away and would cost thousands of dollars. I'm sure we're on a pathway to playing ruining our fancy new plasma televisions by running into them! How will we create a safety strap for this one?

FPS use

[steveha (103154)]

Oh man this would be sweet for first person shooters. Want to spend the entire level running? Better be in shape.

Next we need to add heavy custom controllers: the "rocket launcher" accessory should be made of real metal (or cheap plastic with lead weights built in). For rocket ammo, they will sell little "ammo packs" that each weigh almost as much as the rocket launcher.

Of course, some people will not play fair.

"He's using the wall-shelf hack!" (putting the ammo on a shelf instead of carrying it)

P.S. Fo

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[jdigriz (676802)]

First person shooter, running around the whole level IRL, sounds like Lazer Tag. And yeah, done properly it's quite a workout for the sedentary. I know I'm hot, sweaty and out of breath after a few rounds.

Forget CyberWalk- how about CyberMeet?

[RyoShin (610051)]

The article seems to have undergone the /. effect, so I can't tell if this treadmill will do things for elevation change. Steps might be too much at this point, but what about hills?

Anyway, while going through a virtual world as if I were really there sounds cool, especially in the realm of video games, I think virtualization technology better fits the office, though it might see harder adoption.

How many people need to be in an office building for a meeting? (Nevermind how useful the meeting actually is.) How many people travel thousands of miles to give one presentation, then fly back?

Why not move phone conferencing to the virtual age? Obviously, having everyone represented by an avatar would make the meeting a bit ludicrous for those not used to it. So, why not take a page from the movie industry and go blue screen?

The way I see it is that at various locations around the globe, there is a building full of meeting rooms. Large tables, nice chairs, but no decoration and it's all one color (say, blue). When people enter, they don a set of VR goggles. Cameras in both their goggles and around the room record people and project that real world scenario into this virtual world, then seen through the VR goggles. Then, whoever is "hosting" the meeting can set up or choose from various themes to decorate the virtual rooms. Various tools allow people to project into this virtual world, to get up and walk around, hell even virtual notes.

Obviously, something would need to be done about the goggles such that either they were more like sunglasses or they were somehow removed in the digital projection. And it would take some serious hardware to do a good projection as well as including real-time video. But I believe that this kind of thing would be a big boon for international visits- now you only have to worry about time zones, not planes, hotels, and car rides. Fuel savings, cost savings (once the tech gets there), time savings. If done well enough, there would be no difference than if you were in person. Handshake aside, do you often make physical contact with the people you meet with? No dinner afterwards, unfortunately.

You could have a meeting with potential clients in Japan and be home in an hour.

I'd settle for a decent Head Mounted Display

[MrSteveSD (801820)]

I've been waiting for one with full human field of view (or as near as possible) with good resolution for the last 20 years. I still can't go to the shops and buy one. Even the ones that cost $20,000 are not that great in terms of Field of view. We have the computer power for some very impressive virtual environments yet the visual hardware is completely lacking. I only hope the popularity of mobile video spurs the development of better video glasses technology. Immersive (at least visually) virtual reality is long overdue now.

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[Enoxice (993945)]

...there is no spoon.

Re:Get a VR set for my dog

[SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389)]

Unless it can simulate smell, I think your dog will find the VR world quite lacking.

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[Ryukotsusei (1164453)]

And how do you plan to set up a virtual tree for the dog to do doggie business?

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[damn_registrars (1103043)]

WoW Compatible ?

I think its more likely to work with Duke Nukem Forever, considering how very little material of any substance they had on their website.