OLPC, Microsoft Working Toward Dual-Boot XO Laptops

Ian Lamont writes "The OLPC Project and Microsoft are developing a dual-boot system to put both Linux and Windows on the laptops, according to an interview with Nicholas Negroponte. The article is thin on details, as the OLPC/Microsoft talks are apparently at an early stage. Could this be the end of the OS wars in Nigeria and other developing countries?" While Microsoft has been working on an OLPC-capable version of Windows for some time now, the interesting thing here is the dual-booting provision, rather than forcing users into an either-or choice.

Delusional

It's a brand new development for the XO laptops, as the low-cost notebooks are known, and came about because of Microsoft's friendlier attitude toward open-source software.

Dear Dan Nystedt of ComputerWorld, the English language lacks the proper words that I need to express how wrong you are. I only wish I knew German so I could scream the rest of this post at you.

What caused you to write that sentence, I will never know. Was Stevie B. holding a firearm to your head when you wrote this article? Or simply placing a sack with a large green $ on your desk?

Seriously, this is an all out attack on open source software. They are vying for the young minds of every single child in developing countries. What is so special about this that GRUB or LILO cannot be used for the dual booting? Is Microsoft developing the code to dual boot? I would be shocked if they were.

If you claim Microsoft just wants to make sure the kids get the best operating system for learning, why weren't they handing out free copies of Windows and Office to 3rd world children/schools before the OLPC project started? Because they'd rather give away their product than let a competitor fall into the hearts and minds of these children. Linux has always been free to everybody. Think about it.

Microsoft has embraced the open-source community over the past few years in a very different way than before, Negroponte said. "And that really helps, because it's become a little bit less religious than it was a few years ago and that's really good. In the end, I think, the more people that have software and hardware out there, the better."

Has the whole world gone mad? I'm all for getting the children any operating system they want, in fact I'm glad they will have that choice. But to say that Microsoft has embraced the open-source community is ... strange at best. They may have created their own pseudo-open source community within their company but little more.

Those 419 patent violation accusations [slashdot.org] ... that's "embracing" someone?

It may have become a little less religious recently but only so far as the ends justify Microsoft's means. They are interested in profit, nothing more. I would love to applaud them for coming around and realizing that open source software is a viable solution for making money--and even improving a product! But I cannot say that today. They only actively threaten it in underhanded ways.

Of course MS embraces OSS

Something like how a python does (snake, not the language).

There is nothing really new in this from the OLPC side, Negreponte has always wanted MS onboard. Any change of heart has been from the MS side. MS was rubbishing OLPC only a few months back.

Re:Delusional

I think I can decrypt that for you:

Microsoft has embraced the open-source community over the past few years in a very different way than before

My daughter's cats have embraced mice over the past few years in a very different way than before. Previously they would lay the dead mouse by my dining room chair, now they just eat the mouse.

Don't forget Microsoft's mantra: Embrace, extend, extinguish. Much like my daughter's cats; mantra about mice.

Re:

There's a lot of unknowns here. Will this be a stripped / unlicensed version or what?
He says, "We are working with them very closely to make a dual-boot system so that, like on an Apple, you can boot either one up."
But Apple doesn't provide Windows for you

Re:Delusional

for a good example of this, there was the Thailand laptop deal. In that, HP was providing Thailand with inexpensive laptops with Linux and OSS on it and the government was providing them cheaply to the public. This was such a hit that HP could not keep up with the orders and so Dell was brought in. Microsoft caught wind of this and contacted the Thai government. Soon after, Linux and OSS was replace with a crippled version of Windows and MS Office at what was claimed to $3/laptop. There was likely also provided some millions in donated training by Microsoft or something like that to help fund this shift.

So yup, Microsoft's involvement is only reactionary because the project leveraged the cost savings and efficiencies of Linux and OSS. From what I've heard, even the Bill/Melinda Gates Foundation computer donations come with restrictions on usage of Linux and OSS. So they still want Linux and OSS destroyed and helping kids is only PR. IMO.

LoB

So how could MS lose with this scenario?

Microsoft may figure that if the OLPC can boot to either OS that users may end up preferring Windows over Linux. And for most users they may very well be correct. In addition, they will be able to more easily show off areas where Windows excels in comparison with Linux.

Re:

But the entire point of the OLPC is education. A computer that shows you its code, so you can learn and create with it. This is entirely the opposite of EVERYTHING M$ does. Programming aside, just being able to customize how you use the damned thing is

Re:

There is nothing preventing an XO laptop from running a very trimmed down version of Windows (XP, CE, whatever) and supplying applications that can have their source code available.

Sure there is, it's called Microsoft's desire to stop open source softwa

Re:Not all code needs to be made visible

Why not? Most of those posting anti-MS comments seem to think that if any version of Windows makes it to the XO, then MS will completely control the whole shebang.

But isn't that what MS has done with computers until 2 or so years ago? Until 2 years ago or so, it was nearly impossible to go to a major manufacturer such as Dell and the like and get a computer with a non-MS OS on it. Whats to say that the OLPC won't turn out this way? With Intel leaving, OLPC needs cash, MS has a lot of cash, if MS for the next model of computers by the OLPC decide to pay OLPC say 50 million if they ship with Windows CE on them rather then Linux, how are they to complain? It always starts out small with MS, then before any non-geek knows it, MS controls it. If OLPC turns to MS, you can bet that freedom will get restricted.

Re:So how could MS lose with this scenario?

I'd argue that they even need to learn Windows

Do they _really_ need to learn Windows, or just basic computing concepts? I'd wager that the later is far more useful than learning a specific OS.

When you say the source code is irrelevent in all those "urgent priorities", I say that windows is also - The only requirement is that it displays graphics and text on the screen, so there's absolutly no reason I can see why they couldn't learn all those things with a non-Windows OS.

Re:

Don't worry Negroponte is no fool he's insisting they dual boot to a full copy of Vista.

Dual OS on laptop/pesktop

Where is MS's "trade secret" agreement with Dell etc. that prohibits them from give option for other OS while selling MS Windows. They can sell different Ubuntu and Vista laptops/desktop but you can not choose between either OS on same laptop/desktop.

MS need dual boot on OLPC!

XO is already dual-boot

Even without the developer key to unlock OpenFirmware, the XO design supports booting an alternate OS by holding down a button during startup. I have Debian installed on mine.

KeS

Re:XO is already dual-boot

Actually I don't use it very much. It has ended up being much simpler (four yum packages) to just install xfce on the XO Fedora build, and run it in place of Sugar as the window environment. I don't have a profound preference for debian vs Fedora, so it's easier to just leverage the XO kernel/userspace development. It's nice to know I *can* run an alternate OS if needed, but I don't find myself needing to do it as much as I anticipated.

KeS

Dual-boot beta.

Currently, the dual-boot beta system is an OLPC with a Dell XPS duct-taped to the back of it. To Boot Windows, you turn the thing over... A Microsoft spokes-droid stated that the beta solution only raises the cost "slightly", but won't give an exact figure.

Speed Considerations?

My boss got an XO through the B1G1 program and I found that it ran slowly. Can a stripped down version of XP perform reasonably on a platform that isn't designed for it?

Please don't do this.

I only hope this is total BS. The last thing this project needs is "help" from M$FT. The XO is a fine product and well-suited to its purpose: a platform to introduce people to technology, programming, etc. Nothing but the imagination, ingenuity and creativity of a child is needed. The only reason Microsoft are interested is that they want to poison the minds of the XO owners. Asshats.

First Intel attempted, and now Microsoft is trying to torpedo this project because they realize it's a threat to their future markets. Imagine a whole generation of Linux-schooled programmers writing the next killer apps, or buying last year's hardware to run Linux desktops (or servers!) - now imagine how Wintel feel about that.

Re:

If Microsoft can delay this project for a year or two, they'll have done a great job at killing it. No extension to the G1G1 is going to provide enough cash to keep the project going without some large contracts.

Combine that with how Intel and Microsoft ar

Why, again, is Windows desirable for this market?

I'm not sure I get it. Regardless of whatever discount Microsoft will provide, Windows costs more than Linux, needs more hardware resources to run properly, requires more and deeper technical support, is highly susceptible to malware and, for the intended audience (children aged 8-16 in technology-under served poor communities) either overkill or harder to work with in general. It's not just the OS, either. Many of the third-party programming and application tools that come bundled with the Sugar/Linux environment cost more with the Windows OS. The only semi-cogent argument I've heard supporting Windows being deployed in this environment is that the children will somehow be disadvantaged when they grow up and take on jobs that will use Windows. Meanwhile there is every indication that the primary office tasks expected of any information worker (word processing, spreadsheet, Internet browsing and communications) will be migrating to Web-based appliances in the near future, almost certainly by the time the kids are ready to move into those jobs, and further diminishing any value of using Windows as the OS.

To my mind, Windows seems like an expensive and unneeded distraction for these children.

And they turned Apple down ...

Anyone else remembers how they turned down Steve Jobs' offer of a free Mac OS X? [macnn.com]

"Apple offered free licenses of Mac OS X for MIT's proposed $100 laptop initiative, however, the proposal offered by Apple's CEO Steve Jobs was declined because the program was looking for open-source software [...]"

Uhuh, yeah, right ...

Eww

The OLPC project, as originally conceived, had huge collaborative potential. Put an open platform into the hands of many, many people. Let them figure out what direction they want to take it.

Close that platform, and suddenly it makes no sense at all. It's no longer an extensible means of cultural and technological expression but just another consumer product, good for nothing more than keeping the Third World in its place, right at the bottom.

Thanks, Microsoft, for staying in character.

Re:

Yes, we should do everything we can to let people take their own direction. Except give them the option of running Microsoft software. Because we certainly can't have people going around making choices we don't like now can we?

I wonder what

the "SHOW SOURCE" key on the OLPC will do when Windows is running?

Windows kills the OLPC

The problem with installing Windows on the OLPC is that it destroys the original purpose of the device: to educate children about how computers work. With Windows:

• They won't be able to see the source code, to figure out how it works.
• Or, if they are allowed to see the source code, they will be never be able to work in the OS/Office Suite/whatever market.
• They won't learn computer science, or even proper programming practices. They'll come to believe that writing bug-free code is impossible, and that every computer crashes from time to time. They'll learn that viruses are a normal part of owning a computer.

If Windows goes on the OLPC, the project has failed. It's that simple.

And so the stupidity spreads.

It's reasonably likely the OLPC will become a Windows-only machine in short time.

It will start with older children assuming Windows looks more 'serious' and grown up, like the computers people in images and movies they see online use. Governments will be taught to prefer Windows on the basis of it being more 'competitive' because Windows is "more like" what people in wealthier economies use.

The result of this is that more kids will learn to be bored by computers and computing, believing that they are opaque appliances with western graphic metaphors (what's a 'desktop' to someone that's never sat at a desk?) that seem to get slow over time. Just a small segment of the truly curious seeking alternative operating systems. Governments that bought the machines will wonder what went wrong when they see little or no innovation in the IT sector yet a massive outsourcing industry to faltering IT giants like the U.S.

Negroponte has always wanted to work with Microsoft on his terms. Windows will certainly enjoy a long and prosperous life.

Negroponte, you're being an idiot.