Negroponte vs Intel

Yogi_Stewart_4 writes "More OLPC/Intel love — apparently Intel used 'underhanded' tactics to try to block sales' contracts of the OLPC, trying to reach the customer directly after an agreement had been reached. "They would go in even after we had signed contracts and try to persuade government officials to scrap their contract and sign a contract with them instead. That's not a partnership." Mr Negroponte cited an example in Peru where Intel sales staff tried to persuade the country's vice-minister of education, Oscar Becerra Tresierra, to buy the Intel Classmate PC."

Is there a hidden 3rd party?

[JeepFanatic]

What I want to know is ... is there a hidden 3rd party pushing Intel *cough*Microsoft*cough*? Intel's device is available with Windows XP. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that our "friends" in Redmond are responsible for this in order to get their software into the emerging world instead of Linux.

Re:

[goldspider]

Who cares? I thought this project was to get educational tools into the hands of people who couldn't otherwise afford it, not a platform from which to push a social IT philosophy.

Re:Is there a hidden 3rd party?

[fwarren]

Refusing low-priced laptops because they run Windows is as misguided

The difference is that the OLPC is:

1. Is designed to last. One OLPC that lasts 5 years is cheaper than 3 Classmates that only last 18 months each.
2. Is designed to "mesh" to get internet out to the child farthest from the village. Let me know when Windows XP has a "mesh" update for their wireless stack.
3. Is packaged with educational software. Microsoft and Intel have not developed any educational software that will go for "free" on these machines. And purchasing more software for the classmate only drives the price up.

Re:Is there a hidden 3rd party?

[Coryoth]

I think you can go further: the OLPC was designed from the ground up to be an educational tool. The function of educatign kids was pretty much always foremost in mind with regard to everything about the laptop, from hardware to software. Ultimately the OLPC is an educational device which happens to bear some similarities to a laptop because that was the best technological base on hand at present (if Negorponte could have delivered "The Young Ladies Illustrated Primer" from The Diamond Age instead, I'm sure he would have).

Comparing the OLPC to low priced laptops is an apples and oranges comparison. You are comparing an educational device for kids to a general purpose computing device with no specific user in mind. They just aren't comparable.

Re:

[0xdeadbeef]

Oh, sure, it's all from the goodness of their hearts until viable grain finds it way onto local fields, and then Monsanto shows up with a bill.

Intel has demonstrated their intentions for joining the project, why should we assume Microsoft would be any cynical?

Or, in more general terms, why are people quick to criticize prudent reasons for refusing charity as "ideology" while simultaneously dismissing the actual motivations behind the ideology of "charity"?

I'm sticking with AMD

[FatSean]

My current system is an old AMD dual system, and with the way Intel is acting on the world stage, I'm sticking with AMD for my next system.

Re:I'm sticking with AMD

[presearch]

These days, AMD is running as a non-profit corporation, so you should like them twice as much.

Re:

[Svartalf]

It's not that they're non-profit (You're being sarcastic...and it's not working very well.) it's that they're working at doing the "right things" overall. OLPC. Opening the specs on their chips and specifically designing future designs so that in spite of things like DRM still being an issue in the world for some time yet, they can pretty much support Linux and *BSD, plus anything that follows them, without impacting anything but the DRM pieces.

I'd call that a plus.

As it stands, the only reason I bought s

Re:

[SolitaryMan]

I'm sticking with AMD for my next system.

If AMD continues to do business the way they do now, there will be nothing to stick with.

Guess I better buy in now, eh?

[FatSean]

I suppose I could always bite the bullet and buy non-Intel/non-AMD systems. Price would be high, but it beats supporting a douchebag company.

Re:

[h4rm0ny]

Just have - bought an Athlon X2 5200 has my latest CPU and chose it over any Intel processor because I think I should buy according to what will have a positive effect generally as well as personally. Though to be honest, it's also an excellent chip.

Re:

[poot_rootbeer]

What I want to know is ... is there a hidden 3rd party pushing Intel *cough*Microsoft*cough*?

Why does Microsoft have to be the evil boogeyman lurking in the shadows behind every other company that does something nasty?

Can't we accept that Intel, SCO, et al are more than capable of having their own rotten agendas?

Re:Is there a hidden 3rd party?

[erroneus]

Because Microsoft *IS* the evil boogeyman lurking in the shadows, etc, etc...

The connections in this and other cases are pretty obvious for even the lay person to see. Further, it has been demonstrated that Microsoft knows no shame nor boundaries in their efforts to buy, push or influence governments and other businesses to do their bidding.

If you've got a dog that has been historically pooping on your carpet and you come home today and find poop on your carpet, you're going to look for the dog!

Re:

[blind biker]

Hells yeah. If there's a noble way and a crooked way for MS to achieve the same goal, MS will choose the crooked way - every time.
To be fairh though Intel can be pretty evil all by itself, so it doesn't really need the patronage of Microsoft.

Re:

[Frosty Piss]

The connections [to Microsoft] in this and other cases are pretty obvious for even the lay person to see.

I don't know, are you sure that isn't just a little bit paranoid? Look, Intel could have used a Linux or BSD based OS, but would that have been much better? It's still Intel using their weight to push people around. I'm not so sure M$ has much to do with this other than they are Intel's prefered OS...

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Because we are sure they did use the same tactic already on a market where the Classmate is sold with Linux:
http://blog.mandriva.com/2007/10/31/an-open-letter-to-steve-ballmer/ [mandriva.com]

Can't we accept that maybe the wintel evil couple still exist?

Re:

[fwarren]

Can't we accept that Intel, SCO, et al are more than capable of having their own rotten agendas?

As past performance has indicated. It would be foolish to just automatically write off Microsoft as NOT being involved.

SCO did not have money to follow through on their "case". And in comes Microsoft buying a 10 million dollar license. Then Microsoft went to Baystar of Canada and told them that SCO was a good investment and they would back them if they invested 50 million.

These other companies may be evil.

Re:Is there a hidden 3rd party?

[_KiTA_]

What I want to know is ... is there a hidden 3rd party pushing Intel *cough*Microsoft*cough*? Intel's device is available with Windows XP. I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that our "friends" in Redmond are responsible for this in order to get their software into the emerging world instead of Linux.

I think it's more along the lines that the entire portable industry has ignored the "subnotebook" market that the OLPC project has shown to be extremely viable, and are now trying en mass to jockey for position.

They supported Negroponte just far enough to basically test the waters, making sure there really WAS a market, then once the "useful idiot" outlived his usefulness, well, out come the daggers.

That's what innovation means nowadays in the computer industry: Wait for someone else to do something interesting, then steal the idea and market it faster than he/she can. I hope Negroponte's project survives this nonsense.

Re:

[goatpunch]

Intel's Classmate hasn't piggy backed on One Laptop Per Child in any way, what they're offering is "one computing solution per student" [intel.com], see- a totally different thing.

Re:

[Epi-man]

What I want to know is ... is there a hidden 3rd party pushing Intel *cough*Microsoft*cough*?

Highly unlikely, Intel has no love for Microsoft (despite their symbiotic relationship) and views them as a potential threat (Microsoft will help AMD just as quickly as Intel if it means more sales).

Think of the children?

[pembo13]

I take it that since the rights and free will of the citizenry aren't at stake no one finds it necessary to think of the children, only the profits. But good luck with that, Intel may be a company, but last I checked they actual human beings are the ones making these decisions and going ahead and acting them out. So bravo, another +mark for humanity.

Total Lack of Ethics

[tbannist]

It doesn't matter how badly Intel wanted to sell their more expensive, less functional copy of the OLPC laptop. It is simply unethical to use insider information to quash a deal and sign a separate one yourself with a client.

This is a big black mark against Intel and should serve as a warning to future partners that they can't be trusted at all. I mean you can't get much worse publicity than "deliberately sabotaged a charitable organization". Maybe the CEO of Intel would like follow it up by kicking puppies and eating babies?

Re:Total Lack of Ethics

[Quarters]

If he ate babies there wouldn't be a market for his Classmate PC.

Re:

[RightSaidFred99]

Wait, so I can only assume you have some sort of tape or video or documentation that proves this is what happened? You don't? Oh, I guess you're just making up a scenario then going all over righteous over said made-up scenario's ass.

Re:

[Frosty Piss]

It is simply unethical to use insider information to quash a deal and sign a separate one yourself with a client.

Insider information? OLPC is a non-profit whose processes are open to examination. Much of their technology is Open Source and the product of public institutions. And the production costs / pricing structure are as well publicly known, as are the target customers. What "insider information" where you talking about?

And, since you bring up the "intellectual property" issue, if "intellectual pr

Intel and MS

[HangingChad]

I don't think MSFT is the driver, more of a means to an end for Intel. Their interests are aligned at some level but mainly Intel wants to sell chips. I'm guessing they don't care which OS runs as long as they can keep a finger in the emerging market pie.

MS and Intel have common goals, but that could change.

What's more interesting is the callous, self-serving manner Intel is undermining a project trying to help people. It's pathetic. Lacking in even basic decency. You can claim corporations exist only for profit but it hasn't always been that way. It's a fairly recent development that we have have, at least corporately, started to turn into the Ferengi. And there are limits. When you start undermining humanitarian projects in order to protect your market position, you're over that line.

Maybe Negroponte should just pull off the gloves and make a deal with Wal-Mart and Costco to carry OLPC's. Use the profits to donate machines to developing nations. Or use the profits to cut schools in this country a big discount. If Intel and MS want a war, give them a war.

Re:

[milamber3]

That can't be the complete story because they were about to unveil a new intel version of the OLPC's XO at CES. This would have led to more chip sales and yet they chose to sabotage their partners and ruin the chance to have intel chips sold with the OLPC campaign. This really sucks, I was considering an intel chip for my next computer as they have definitely outpaced AMD, but now I need to consider whether I want to do business with such a company. Maybe a few less instructions per cycle is worth it to

Re:

[Scrameustache]

I don't think MSFT is the driver

Hook 'em while they're young.
They want to piggyback on educational programs to indoctrinate children into their monopoly.

Similar to their classmate advert...

[19061969]

Man, try this for the ClassMate (TM)

http://www.intel.com/intel/worldahead/classmatepc/ [intel.com]

Notice any similarities like the graphic at the top?

Go Apple!

[PHPfanboy]

Disgusting behaviour like this by Intel is why I'll never use Wintel and only buy Apple

Re:

[elrous0]

I too want to help to world's poor people. That's why I would never buy software made by Bill Gates.

Re:

[mgblst]

Here that woosh sound, I wonder what that was?

Re:

[mgblst]

blockquote>I really hope that this was an attempt to be ironic...

I really hope that was an attempt at being stupid, because there is no way that his statement could possibly be made to be ironic. Maybe you could spend some time with a dictionary.

And I do think he meant to be sarcastic.

Re:

[Khyber]

No, they can't. This is why I say about half of /. needs to go back to school, to learn the social graces they missed out on.

Let Intel know what you think

[verin]

From Intel's website:
        Corporate Mailing Address
        2200 Mission College Blvd.
        Santa Clara, CA 95054-1549
        USA
        [phone]

A phone call or a snail mail letter will go a long way toward letting Intel know it crossed the line.

Intel's Business Code of Conduct

[Anonymous Coward]

Most large companies have a set of explicitly stated business rules that employees are expected to follow or face disciplinary action. Typically, employees are expected to periodically read and review these rules, and certify that they have done so and will follow them. Sometimes, these rules include explicit prohibitions against trying to sell when the potential customer has already placed a legally-enforceable order with a competitor. The rationale is simple, the order is a contract. You shouldn't encourage anybody to break a contract, because you would be encouraging them to break the law. Apparently, Intel's senior management apparently hasn't seen the need to set the bar that high for their employees. That's too bad and a black mark against Intel for sure. Just another reason to keep buying AMD.

Negroponte has a right to be upset. Intel shouldn't have been doing this against ANY competitor, must less one that they were cooperating with.

Re:

[RightSaidFred99]

You have no evidence whatsoever that this is the case. Based on a nebulous complaint from Negropante you're asserting that they did something wrong here, when in fact you have absolutely no idea what really happened.

Re:

[ppanon]

Negroponte doesn't have a history of anti-competitive practices but Intel does. As a result, I'm willing to give Negroponte the benefit of the doubt. It's a smart move to make business decisions based on a potential business partner's history; banks and insurance companies do it all the time.
Customers of companies like WalMart and Intel don't do it anywhere near enough.

The classmate hardware SUCKS, at least...

[nweaver]

IF targeting the 3rd world, the classmate sucks:

a) There are cooling holes on it! Hello dirt and debris.

b) The keyboard is non ruggedized, at least compared to the XO.

c) It uses a conventional montior arrangement rather than the OLPC "behind the monitor" arrangement. This means that it has a complex, wire heavy connector through the hinge rather than just a USB and power connection.

I don't see how the classmate could last 6 months in a third world environment.

I question some of the OLPC's intent, but their hardware design blows away that Intel POS its not even funny.

Re:

[RightSaidFred99]

Good God. You certainly drank the kool-aid, didn't you. You have some romaticized view of little kids in dirt huts using these things, and taking them down with them to the river to bathe and possibly bring back some water with them. Tell me, in this little fantasy of yours have the "natives" invented the wheel yet?

Don't be ridiculous. If you put the XO in the "dirt" on any kind of regular basis it's going to break too. They're not giving them out to native tribes in South America or Africa, and if t

Re:

[nweaver]

I hardly say I've drunk the OLPC cool-aid. I think it will be a failure, and the current software is a disaster.

But the hardware design really is vastly better. The hardware on the XO is brilliant. You could make a "big keyboard" version and sell it as is to the military for $2000 a copy, its that rugged.

Just some of the weaknesses of the Classmate's design in comparison (beyond the 50% higher price tag):

a: Cooling openings are a weakness and unnecessary in a device which should be passively cooled. (Du

Douchebags.

[blind biker]

How is that of all the other OLPC partner companies, Intel is the only one that just couldn't resist but to pull a fast one? I have a thick skin usually when it comes to corporations' behaviour, but NOT when it's detrimental to a charity. fsck intel

Got my OLPC a few days ago

[pez]

I wanted to like the OLPC -- no I wanted to *love* the OLPC. I wanted to love it so much that I wanted to tell the world how awesome it was, and how everyone should participate in the give one get one program.

Then mine arrived in the mail.

Initial reactions were off the charts. The packaging was even excellent! The machine is sturdy, well-built, solid, cleverly designed, rugged, and absolutely perfect for it's purpose. I can't say enough about how many of the design decisions were fantastic. The keyboard was perhaps smaller than I had anticipated, but with the intended use case scenarios even that didn't detract from the brilliance of the hardware.

And then I turned it on.

Anyone who says that the interface is revolutionary or different is trying to put a nice spin on it. Yes, some of the organization and terminology is novel, and one could even praise some of the attempts at getting you to re-think how computers work. But the entire thing feels astonishingly like X Windows from the late 1980s. The interfaces are clunky and inconsistent, and worst of all it suffers from a pervasive design philosophy of "because we could" not "because we should." I could easily forgive a lack of graphical polish, but it's much more difficult to forgive the nearly-20-year giant leap backwards in interface design.

I know what the slashdot crowd is thinking... "it's open source! Write a new UI yourself!" but that's not the point. My point is that I wish the OLPC project had spent half the effort on the software that they did on the hardware -- if they had, then maybe we really would have a device that would change the world. Who knows... maybe a version 2 will have a new UI that actually will.

They didn't make it for you

[simong]

You're not a kid in a developing country who might have never used a computer before. The machine has to be tactile, simple and responsive. Minimal eye candy to confuse, minimum text to aid understanding in as many languages as possible. You've seen it all, Jorge in Uruguay hasn't.

Re:

[dpbsmith]

Regrettably, I agree with the original poster.

It may not matter. The Sugar UI is an adequate application (sorry, "activity") launcher and the applications themselves are individually good.

There were many valid reasons for building a completely new UI from the ground up, and many of the unfamiliar and "different" ways of doing things are the result of an attempt to meet different needs, and originality.

Still, the implementation is currently a mess and simply does not achieve the visions articulated in the st

Re:Got my OLPC a few days ago

[Scrameustache]

The interfaces are clunky and inconsistent

Well, that's gonna prepare the kids for the sad reality of life, then! ;-)

Poor Documentation

[ISoldat53]

I agree. The support wiki is full of holes but it seems to be getting filled out. The great advantage I see in the buy-one-give-one program was to get it in the hands of people in the FOSS community that can find such weaknesses and fix them. We can support OLPC by developing applications and providing input to the project.

Re:

[Skjellifetti]

I bought one for my seven year old daughter. She loves it and by the end of the 1st day, she was showing me things like keyboard shortcuts that she had discovered. She has now started using the simpler programming tools (turtle and etoys). I'd say that the OLPC folks provided exactly what their target market needed.

Re:Got my OLPC a few days ago

[pez]

Hey guys.... yes, I get it, it's not for me. I really, truly, 100% understand that it's not for me. That doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion on whether it's good for kids because in addition to having two kids of my own (one of whom is old enough to use computers), I've been designing user interfaces for about 12 years now.

If you haven't tried out the UI yet, I suggest you do. And if you're an old fart like me who knew what X Windows looked like in the 1980s you'll agree that it's eerily familiar. And that's not a good thing.

Simple things like closing an application-- err activity-- are inconsistent from activity to activity. I found at least three different ways depending on the activity. Sure, kids will figure it out... smart kids figure out everything. That doesn't mean it's a good UI or even an acceptable UI. For every brilliant kid that will be a whiz at this thing I suspect there will be at least a few who, after trying to use it, will say that other alternatives are preferable. Remember.... the OLPC is not alone in this marketplace and this article is titled "Negroponte vs. Intel" and my assertion is that unless the software on the XO improves, he's going to continue to lose contracts to the classmate.

[Note: in no way am I trying to say that Windows is "better"... I f'ing hate Windows. But the OLPC's software is so bad that anything -- and I truly mean anything -- that is currently being actively developed in 2007 is better]

Re:

[grumbel]

### I suggest you do. And if you're an old fart like me who knew what X Windows looked like in the 1980s you'll agree that it's eerily familiar.

I don't really see how Sugar is anything like X Windows back in the 1980s. I agree that it is not really revolutionary, it is basically the same thing like every other OS, with the difference that applications are running in fullscreen. But I don't see what should be so bad about the interface. Closing an application quite consistently, you either press the Stop but

patch it

[Scrameustache]

Simple things like closing an application-- err activity-- are inconsistent from activity to activity. I found at least three different ways depending on the activity. Sure, kids will figure it out... smart kids figure out everything. That doesn't mean it's a good UI or even an acceptable UI.

Wouldn't that be because all those activities were developed independently from one another?
In the rush to get everything done on time I'm betting no one coordinated their UI ideas with everyone else, and now each activity is built from the ground up without a unifying lead.

That's why god invented "version x.2" ;-)

Re:Emulation is your friend

[Psykechan]

Something Pez forgot to mention is that you can emulate [laptop.org] an XO relatively painlessly. There is even a premade image file that is available that you can drop into say QEMU [bellard.free.fr] and see what it's all about.

A few caveats: Use something with virtualization which unfortunately means x86. Trying to run this emulated on a high end PowerPC system was saddening. Yes it is only a 433MHz target, but 433MHz is pretty high when you think about it. The other thing to keep in mind is that the premade image wants to change t

If I did something like that, I would be fired

[sirwired]

At the company I work for, the Code of Conduct we are required to review every year has an explicit prohibition against this sort of thing. The section is actually entitled "Selling Against a Signed Order". The code isn't that long, so the fact that there is a special section for this one situation shows how important it is.

If I were to try and sell against a signed order, I would be fired. Immediately. With no chance of appeal.

Encouraging a customer to break a signed contract could get both the customer and my company sued by the competitor for contract interference, and rightly so.

SirWired

Well, Groves already set out his stall...

[hughbar]

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/grove/paranoid.htm [intel.com] with 'only the paranoid survive'. Hey, those bleeding-heart commies have taken business that is rightfully OURS, that means war.

I'm fighting back this year by buying more and more from employee-owned (John Lewis, I'm from the UK) organisations, cooperatives (Telephone Coop, local credit union), mutuals (Royal London) and anything else that doesn't have shareholders and then lastly for-profits with a verifiable social agenda and a record of honou

The OLPC initiative is a very good idea.

[Futurepower(R)]

The OLPC idea needs perhaps 5 or 10 years to mature, in my opinion. After that, when every country in the world realizes how much computers help grow social strength, the market will be far larger and well-defined, and commercial efforts will be very welcome.

The OLPC idea is founded on these understandings: 1) That students will be far more interested in school if they have a way of accessing the world's information, especially where books are not easily available. 2) That students can teach themselves.

Remember what OLPC is!

[serviscope_minor]

Before you go on the whole competition is good for laptops speech, remember that OLPC is not a laptop project, it is an education project.

The idea is to improve education in poorer countries, and the laptops are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Intel's laptop sabotages the OLPC goal because it is a laptop project, not an education project. Remember that the OLPC comes with education based software and even has a "show me the code" button not to mention a screen which is very suitable for reading electronic books. They are carefully designed for education. Intel's laptops aren't. Therefore, competing with OLPC sabotages the goal of better education for poorer people.

Oh, and just to cover the other point, no, you can't eat a laptop, but that's not their purpose: they are not disaster relief tools either, they're education tools.

Intel invested heavily -- big stakes

[YeeHaW_Jelte]

"Intel has invested a billion dollars over the last 10 years alone in education around the world," said Mr Otellini.[Head of Intel]

Very telling indeed, but not in the way he intends it. He's basically saying they have high stakes in this market and, being a corporation, they expect a return on this investment.

He's basically giving away the motive for Intel to do such rotten things to the OLPC project.

Move on.

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Negroponte would do well to put the Intel relationship behind him. This is turning into a "he said v. they said" argument.

Of course, Negroponte could use these tactics to generate more buzz for OLPC at Intel's expense (regardless if it is actually true).

I'm not saying which side is right. I am saying Negroponte needs to move on... Jesus, how many more of these OLPC v Intel stories do there need to be?

nominate Negroponte for Nobel Peace prize?

[peter303]

I admire him for trying to bring computing to poor third world kids, even if a competitor eventually succeeds. He created this market, while big-assed companies ignored it until Nick showed it might be possible.

More practically, Al Gore probably used up the American & techie "peace prize quota" for five years. And the Bill Gates Foundation is ahead of Nick in this queue. Plus Nick's brother is considered an assh*l* by many Europeans for his lapdog service to George Bush (UN ambassador, Rice undersec

This is why I've used AMD for years

[mlwmohawk]

Intel is no different than Microsoft, does anyone remember Zylog? Intel will do to chip makers what Microsoft will do to software makers.

I can't say AMD is more ethical, but it is at least a counterpoint to the Intel near monopoly of P.C. CPUs.

Re:

[Yetihehe]

Or maybe he wants children to use open source software not windows?

Re:

[goldspider]

So the OLPC project is a religious crusade? Wonderful! And here I thought we were just trying to get educational tools into the hands of children.

Re:Negroponte

[nahdude812]

The success of his project is dependent on getting enough orders to give them economy of scale savings. He is courting the wealthier countries right now, and as he gets more orders, he can reduce cost further, and reach a more and more impoverished market. If Intel uses this as a way to have OLPC do all the front work of identifying markets, getting in to talk with the people who can make the buying decisions, and then end-gaming them on the sale, they are not only hurting the success of the OLPC project and shortening its eventual reach, they are also directly stealing value from the project which did the initial effort investment. Some of these countries might not have talked to Intel directly, but had heard good things about this OLPC thing and so first entertained the idea only because of the merits brought by that project. Intel is therefore operating under the guise of friendship and help, while cannibalizing the underlying foundation of the project.

OLPC laptops are more open, more free, better designed, and less expensive. Intel ClassMate PC's are proprietary, less rugged, and require more power to operate. Worst of all they are for-profit, and those profits are sent to Intel stock holders, making wealthy business men wealthier at the expense of money which would better be used satisfying an educational need in the exact same arena as the laptop was advertised as intending to assist. They unnecessarily drain valuable resources from the very market they are pretending to aid.

Basically this is about as disgustingly slimy as I think they are able to be.

Re:

[argiedot]

It's $50 cheaper than the Classmate PC. At $200 for the OLPC laptop that means that you can give five kids laptops for the same amount of money that you could give four kids the Classmate PC. And that's after the fact that the Linux discount saved them $35. Of course, one would assume that all the effort gone into designing an interface for children that encourages them to search and learn has some additional value. So basically the idea is to get more educational value for less price.

As for the advantage

Re:

[be-fan]

Why does the desire for openness have to be a religious thing? There is a strong practical interest in not tying third world kids to the whims of a for-profit corporation in the USA. What happens when Microsoft/Intel decide to stop playing the charity game? This isn't just Wintel hating, it's basic logic --- as for profit corporations, Microsoft/Intel are _obliged by law_ to maximize their shareholder value. If that getting rid of a charitable program to take advantage of a perceived new market, then so be

Classmate vs. OLPC

[CustomDesigned]

While the Classmate is more powerful than OLPC, it also uses 10 times the power. Intel had to donate generators to their pilot projects before they could use the classmate. OLPC can run on hand cranks. I would say the Classmate is a better fit for industrialized countries with easy access to clean power, but not for the places OLPC is trying to reach. I believe that Classmate also doesn't have mesh, so that connectivity from the school would only reach as far as a WAP.

Re:Negroponte

[Locutus]

he might also feel that putting a diesel generator right outside the window of the classroom so that the Classmate PC's can have power, just might not be good for the kids. I read in an interview where Intel came in an won a contract over the XO but when they got the laptops in the class, the inconsistent power they had would not allow for a full school day's use of the laptops. Intel brought in a diesel generator to provide constant power.

Somehow, it just doesn't seem to be a very efficient or effective way to get laptops to these kids. It is also a very good example of how the Classmate PC is not in the same league as the XO in its design goals.

So maybe Negroponte is on the warpath to keeping diesel fumes away from kids. ;-/

LoB

Re:Negroponte

[Anonymous Coward]

>If Negroponte really just carted about the kids, and not his own ego, ...

If Intel cared about the kids and not their profits ...

Re:

[Lord Apathy]

If Intel cared about the kids and not their profits

If the african cared about their kids they would stop making more till they could feed the ones they have.

Re:Negroponte

[1u3hr]

Intel is just like any other company that has a responsibility to its shareholders.

It signed agreements with OLPC, so it has a responsibility to live up to that. "Maximising profits for shareholders" does not make it okay to break contracts, lie, cheat or steal, despite what many MBAs seem to think.

Re:

[jacquesm]

what's that movie called again ? If the profits outweigh the cost of the lawsuit...

It's quite sick but companies routinely make decisions like this.
 

Re:Negroponte

[smilindog2000]

I wish I had a catchy name... "Bill's Law" just wont catch on. Anyway, here's why companies like Intel can both support OLPC with heartfelt charity, while at the same-time underhandedly stealing their market:

A corporation's actions are dictated by the weakest morals of it's leaders.

Corollary: The simplest way to make a corporation good is to have a strong ethical leader. I guarantee that the leaders involved in working with OLPC are honest people. I also guarantee the leaders involved in knee-capping OLPC are dishonest. A strong leader would find one personality for the company, and enforce it on the troops. Weak leaders allow multiple personalities to come forward when convenient.

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[Torvaun]

I wish I had a catchy name... "Bill's Law" just wont catch on.

I don't know about that, "I'm Just a Bill" was pretty catchy.

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[Falesh]

If they do that then they run the risk of a public backlash, like the reactions to this story.

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[mccabem]

The Rainmaker [imdb.com]

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[RightSaidFred99]

Did you see these agreements? Did you see what happened in Peru or do you have any kind of evidence at all tthat anything unethical happened? Any evidence that they broke a contract, lied, cheated, or stole? Personally, I find it unethical to jump to conclusions based on absolutely 0 evidence, but maybe I'm just a crazy dude.

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[debrain]

It signed agreements with OLPC, so it has a responsibility to live up to that. "Maximising profits for shareholders" does not make it okay to break contracts, lie, cheat or steal, despite what many MBAs seem to think.

While the other examples are clearly heinous, there is no law against breaking contracts. However, there are consequences to breaking a contract, notably the obligation to compensate those to whom you had made a promise by one of three ways in the common law: putting them in as good a situation as they were in before the contract was made; putting them in as good a situation as they ought to have been in after the contract had been fully executed; or giving them the benefit the promisor defaulting had rece

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[rbanffy]

"Maximising profits for shareholders" does indeed make it okay to break contracts, lie, cheat or steal, but only as long as you don't get caught.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe it has something to do with the fact Intel signed an agreement with OLPC? If I were running a business and one of my subcontractors ran off behind my back trying to poach clients, I'd be a tad pissed off too.

Even with a "humanitarian" purpose, OLPC has to be aware of threats to its overall business sustainability ... and a partner firm sabotaging sales agreements is most certainly a threat.

Re:Negroponte

[mrchaotica]

He wants kids having HIS laptops and HIS educational materials.

No, he wants kids to have good laptops and good educational materials. The Intel Classmate PC does not qualify on either count!

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[Improv]

If you were to start a homeless shelter and get the backing of some financial sponsors, knowing that state and other funds to help you depends on your having certain numbers of clients, it would be clearly inappropriate for those same sponsors to agressively set up their own shelters in order to block you out (if social groups were generally meaner, we could imagine different churches doing this kind of thing to promote their particular denomination - fortunately churches tend to consider their notion of th

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[EvilMonkeySlayer]

No, it certainly isn't. But it isn't up to Intel to decide that either.

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[fwarren]

No, it's up to the people who are actually buying and using the laptops. And if they decide to go with Intel, he has no right to throw a hissy-fit about it.

Intel should not have signed a non-compete agreement then.

It might be ok if they were just cold-calling countries.

It is a little shady if they try negotiating with countries which they already know OLPC is negotiating with.

It is downright unethical for them to go and ask countries to break their contract for OLPC's to get an Intel product.

It is

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[somersault]

Providing a choice is always a good thing. Do you like that Microsoft and Intel traditionally get to decide what is 'good' for us? Negroponte has at the very least been raising a lot of awareness about the state of education in poorer parts of the world. Even if you disagree with his solution and methods, and even if he has a big ego as a few people here are claiming, he's providing a choice and making the big boys like Intel notice, so he must be doing something right.

Re:Negroponte

[sogoodsofarsowhat]

This is a troll above. Truth is even in regular for profit business if a partner company did this to my group of companies i would kick them to the curb in a split second. It is not about profits this is about being outright dishonest. You do not do business with dishonest companies.....plain and simple. Unless you enjoy getting screwed over. Why waste your time and efforts working with a dishonest partner? I know i do not and have survived as a US maker of Audio products (OEM level) for more than 40 years. Never underestimate the power of being honest and keeping your word....it will allow you to survive long after all the other bigger players have either went bankrupt or sold to off shore companies because they are no longer viable to operate here. I have seen and purchased many of those whom thought they were so smart and keen (and dishonest) yet my company is still in the USA and still making jobs and growing....and making a nice profit....why....becuase when a customer partners with me....they know they will not be screwed over. 40+years and counting....:) I wish Negroponte the best , he should have known that the likes of MS and intel cannot be trusted they are NOT honorable companies. Yes they have made huge profits....but i sleep very well at night and customers i have had for 30+ years call me more than supplier, many consider me close personal friend. Those who say business is only about profits....need to take an ethics course or 10 and also need to realize it is not just about profits. Many times ive made the choice that was less profitable or not profitable but was the RIGHT thing to do. What will you do when pressed by such a situation? Will you choose profit or what is right? The answer will determine if you really are an enlightened individual or just a blood sucker. Thats the difference.

Re:Negroponte

[hey!]

That's an interesting issue but your answer is naive.

Non-profits and for-profits are more alike than people think. If a non-profit doesn't pay the electricity bills, the lights go off. If a non-profit program doesn't reach sufficient volume, its unit costs go through the roof because of the fixed costs are amortized over fewer units. Just like a for-profit.

The difference between non-profits and for-profits is why they do what they do, not how.

If there are 270,000 children who need laptops in Peru, a non-profit would try to equip as many of them as humanly possible. A for-profit will try to equip the number of children which would maximize its profits. For example, suppose Intel's profits are maximized by equipping 135,000 children in Peru. The government would buy more if the price were lower, but Intel's profit margin would be lower. Intel could increase its unit margin so that it made more on each PC, but Peru would buy sufficiently fewer that the net profits would decrease.

The difference between a non-profit and a for-profit is that a for-profit never considers costs that are external to itself, such as the cost of 135,000 children who grow up without access to information and the world economy. A non-profit internalizes as much of that cost as possible.

When two for-profits compete, they try to poach the plum contracts from each other, and it doesn't matter. They both act in exactly the same way, so the differences between the two are small. When either looks at a population of 270,000 customers, 135,000 of which don't have enough money to play, they see a market of 135,000, give or take a few, plus 135,000 non-entities who they have no intention of serving. When they compete with each other, the more efficient of the two might equip 140,000, and the less efficient might equip 120,000, and so market efficiencies maximize the public benefit, if the only choice is between two entities that weigh the public benefit in exactly the same manner.

When a for-profit cherry picks the plum contracts from a non-profit, it's a different matter altogether. The efficient for profit equips 140,000 where the non-profit would equip 270,000. What's more the non-profit can't pick up the slack, because (a) there's no money and (b) they are amortizing their costs over fewer units so they can no longer provide product at lower prices than the for-profit.

Right or wrong? You decide. But it's certainly about more than personal ego. It's about educating students whom it is not profitable to equip; and if it is not profitable, it will never happen.

Re:Negroponte

[Svartalf]

The flaw lies in that Intel promised to NOT poach like they seem to have been doing and did it anyway.

It's not that Negroponte has an ego (but everyone is seizing on the fact the man DOES have a big ego...)
but that Intel didn't live up to it's promises. If the stunt in Peru is provable, then Intel DOES have
a big bit of explaining to do- and what Negroponte has been saying isn't QUITE the "hogwash" they're
claiming it is.

It's not that he doesn't want laptops in the hands of kids. He wants education TOOLS in the hands of
kids. Unfortunately, all the Classmate devices seem to be is indoctrination tools for Microsoft products
as opposed to engines to be re-worked, etc. to teach thinking in addition to knowledge. OLPC's goal is
that. All the Classmate seems to be is discounted Windows stuff for kids and calling it "education".

I've a problem with that.

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[SharpFang]

The OS of XO is free and open-source. Classmate specs are better than XO. There is a bit of goods in XO hardware, but not all that much. Most of it is in the software. The way I see it from the government side would be "Yes, okay, but without Windows preinstalled please. Get Linux with Sugar running on it, make it 100% compatibile with XO software, and get the price by 10% below XO (shouldn't be hard, you're dropping costly Windows, don't you? *wink-wink*) and we'll spend the same amount of cash we'd spend

Re:Negroponte

[hhas]

"Classmate specs are better than XO. There is a bit of goods in XO hardware, but not all that much"

Depends on your definition of 'better'. I don't think the OLPC hardware should be underestimated. The Classmate may have a faster processor and more storage, but it also has a shorter battery life, no 'e-book' mode, no mesh network, isn't nearly as rugged or user serviceable, and costs more. Given that a 366MHz processor and 128MB RAM is a perfectly respectable combo as long as the software is tuned for it, flexibility and longevity ought to be a more significant factor than raw [on-paper] grunt.

There's a nice recent take-apart here:

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=218 [bunniestudios.com]

Obviously a great deal of thought and design has gone into these beasties. If only my own (much-battered) machines were built like that...

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[SharpFang]

Mesh network is a software feature, could be provided by OS. E-book mode isn't a significant perk. Battery life is, but it should be able to enter some strong power-saving mode, shouldn't it?

If it's not nearly as rugged or serviceable, it might be a show-stopper, although a GOOD support contract could solve it.

As for price, it is sold cheaper than XO. And that's a HUGE catch, the "dark secret": manufacturing costs exceed sales price by a hefty margin, and the difference is paid by Microsoft, to push Windows

Re:Negroponte

[markov_chain]

Mesh network is a software feature, could be provided by OS. E-book mode isn't a significant perk. Battery life is, but it should be able to enter some strong power-saving mode, shouldn't it?

The problem is that power saving is connected to the first two items. The XO mesh can forward packets while the motherboard is sleeping. Arguably, this can be done if the Classmate adopts the same Marvell radio and firmware. Similarly, e-book mode can also run without the motherboard awake, because the framebuffer is powered independently. I'm not sure if any of the G1G1 people tried it but I think the e-book battery life should be around 24hr.

Re:Negroponte

[steveg]

Well, the Classmate hardware specs *are* better than the XO -- but only "conventional" specs.

What about innovative features that the XO embodies? The sunlight readable screen, the tablet like e-book mode, the ultra low power capabilities, the mesh networking? Admittedly, you could argue that the mesh networking is as much software as hardware, but the hardware is a part of it.

In addition, is the Classmate as rugged as the XO?

I don't think just adding Sugar to the Classmate would match up. I submit that despite the higher specs on CPU speed, RAM, and storage, the Classmate hardware represents inferior hardware for the stated purpose as compared to the XO. Those specs are not very significant to the mission that both these units claim to aim at. The hardware advantages that the XO brings to the table *do* make a difference to that mission.

And it wouldn't be easy to save a ton of money by dropping Windows. MS is deathly afraid of non-MS OSes taking hold in the developing world -- they are offering Windows in that market at $3 a pop.

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[SharpFang]

And it wouldn't be easy to save a ton of money by dropping Windows. MS is deathly afraid of non-MS OSes taking hold in the developing world -- they are offering Windows in that market at $3 a pop.

Actually, it would. Well, not easy but possible.

First, Microsoft would never admit to $3 a pop, with some $60 for Home Edition in retail. That would cause some serious outrage, so even if they ofer it at $3 a pop, they would discount some $20 just to hide that fact. And with prices of these systems that's not so li

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[Toonol]

It's like comparing the Wii to the PS3 (well, maybe not that drastic). The PS3 specs blow the Wii apart in all the easily quantifiable ways... but in the difficult-to-objectively-compare metric of 'fun game console', the Wii is competitive, perhaps even better.

One problem with innovation is the difficulty to evaluate overall capability... which is bigger, a hundred cm^2 or one cm^3? New features are like new dimensions, and can make comparisons nonsensical.

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[WindBourne]

Intel will drop the price long enough to wipe out XO, then will bump it up to over 400. Perhaps more important, the classmate was not designed to survive for long in the wild. It was designed for classes. The XO is well built and easily serviceable. I would gladly give up speed for serviceability.

Re:Negroponte

[sribe]

...but many customers are demanding Windows so the children can compete in the global job market.

Which is sheer stupidity! Learning Windows is not what children need to compete in the global job market. A good education is what they need. Something that Negroponte, the educator, and Papert, the master behind the scenes who has devoted his life to studying how children learn, understand a bit better than Intel's sales flacks.

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[RightSaidFred99]

Don't worry, these god damn hippies will move on to something else soon. I absolutely promise you that in 3 years people will be saying OLPWhat?

These FOSS zealots really are the hippies of our generation, all closed-mindedness, know-it-all-ness, and an amazing degree of groupthink.

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[Dr. Manhattan]

If your post wasn't a troll, it would have some links to support the allegations you make, or at least some arguments in support of them.

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[elrous0]

You want evidence of the fact that Negroponte has a knack for pissing off governments and blowing deals? Hell, that one is easy, just look at their track record. So far, the OLPC has only secured real deals (where they've actually supplied laptops) to six countries (Haiti, Rwanda, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Mongolia, and Uruguay), each with a very small order (under 1 million collectively for all six countries). But they've BLOWN deals (where the country initially agreed to buy, but later backed out) with just

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[statusbar]

What you say may or may not be true, but what IS true is that Intel was caught being dishonest and broke agreements with OLPC and as a result was kicked out of the OLPC's group.

What do YOU do when business partners are dishonest and break agreements with YOU?

--jeffk++