OLPC Announces Buy-2-Get-1 XO Laptop Sale

theodp writes "Starting November 12, The One Laptop Per Child Project will sell its affordable XO laptop to Americans for a brief period of time, but there's a slight catch: U.S. buyers must purchase two computers — one for their own child and one for a child in the developing world — for a total cost of $399. 'Staff members of the laptop project were concerned that American children might try the pared-down machines and find them lacking compared to their Apple, Hewlett-Packard or Dell laptops. Then, in this era of immediate global communications, they might post their criticisms on Web sites and blogs read around the world, damaging the reputation of the XO Laptop, the project staff worried. So the laptop project sponsored focus-group research with American children, ages 7 to 11, at the end of August. The results were reassuringly positive.'"

$100+$100 = $399?

I thought this was the $100 laptop?

If so, how is it buying two costs $399?

Or are they Canadian dollars?

Re:

You we're a little late [slashdot.org].

Although it is still off by around $23.

Re:$100+$100 = $399?

Didn't you hear? The "Canadian dollar" jokes were switched for "American dollar" jokes recently.

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Canadian and American coins have been of a similar size and colour for generations. In the 80's in Michigan they were pretty much interchangeable until the Canadian dollar's value dropped. Even vending machines and video games took Canadian coins back then

Re:Canadian Coins Too

It's true here too, for example the 1 Euro coins from Belgium, Germany and France are amazingly similar...

Re:Canadian Coins Too

This differs from the greenback how? Cash isn't money, it has no intrinsic value - confidence in the cash is the money. All paper currency is "money stamps".

The truth about money

> Cash isn't money, it has no intrinsic value - confidence in the cash is the money.

DING! Give this guy a cookie! Or at least a good upmod.

Since everyone abandoned the Gold Standard all money is 'faith based.' Which is why exchange rates fluctuate so

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And what exactly would you (Canadians do)? We do import quite a bit. Think it'd be good for Canada if we had to stop?

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The "$100 laptop" costs currently $188 USD ( http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/15/0332225 [slashdot.org]). And according to the XO Giving FAQ (http://www.xogiving.org/faq.html [xogiving.org]) "$200 dollars is the bundled price to donate an XO laptop computer. This price

Re:A certain irony...

Despite your first comment, you really do miss the point.

You are not buying a $399 laptop. You are buying a $188 laptop and donating $211 to a charitable cause.

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The floating head of Ayn Rand would not approve.

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The real Ayn Rand would have been perfectly fine with anyone doing whatever they want with their own money - it's the concept of others deciding to do something with your money without your approval that she'd have some difficulty.

No, you're ascribing m

Side rant on libertarian purity

> she really did think altruism was evil

That would be my read as well, but after declaring it evil I doubt she would do anything to prevent you from doing something she though wrongheaded, stupid or even evil so long as you weren't using force (taxes) to do it.

And that is really Freedom Zero. The Right to be Wrong. Person A must be free to think/argue that person B is 'Wrong' but the second they try to enforce that choice on person B they become more wrong. Even though it doesn't fit perfectly I'll use this topic for an example.

If you believe OLPC is 'altrustic' (and believe that to be a bad thing) it is perfecly acceptable to argue the project should not be supported on those grounds in the public arena. Convince enough current supporters to abandon it and it dies, again that is perfectly ok. To even attempt to convince Congress to stomp on it crosses the line to wicked. Of course it is equally wicked to solicit Congress for any assistance on such a project, too bad THAT part is ignored every day Congress is in session.

Re:A certain irony...

Bullshit. Direct quote [ellensplace.net]:

"My views on charity are very simple. I do not consider it a major virtue and, above all, I do not consider it a moral duty. There is nothing wrong in helping other people, if and when they are worthy of the help and you can afford to help them. I regard charity as a marginal issue. What I am fighting is the idea that charity is a moral duty and a primary virtue."

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If you're running a poor elementary school in Louisiana there is little doubt in my mind that if you bought a 100+ of these laptops you could probably get the third world country rate.

But you're right, we need to address the problems of our own people firs

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"At $200 I might have been able to scrape up enough to buy my oldest one for Xmas,but at $399? I could just buy a much more powerful Dell."

Actually you could. Walmart has 1.0 GHz VIA C3 laptops for $398 [walmart.com] in stores or a 1.86 GHz Intel Celeron Acer Aspire [walmart.com]

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There is some interest at the university department where I work in using one of these as an inexpensive, low power data logger for one of our projects. It would be in a remote setting and would depend on solar panels and batteries to operate. The low po

Re:A certain irony...

Furthermore, is the laptop rugged? Can it run off a built-in hand crank generator? Can you read the screen in sunlight? Is it designed (like the OLPC is) to be maintained / repaired by a child? The answer to all of these is NO. It's really amazing how many people just don't "get it." This is not simply a "low-end" Dell. It is a custom laptop designed as a teaching tool used in harsh environments for kids without easy access to electricity.

Re:A certain irony...

Mod me troll if you want, but the people you described, rural America, in large part put Bush and Co. into the White House, not to mention his dad and Ron.

All I can say about your litany of woes is that in the end, you reap what you sow.

Re:$100+$100 = $399?

I thought this was the $100 laptop?

You thought wrong. The laptop is now known as the XO-1 laptop (they have not been able to maintain the price within the original estimation, it is today priced at $188).

As a side note, IMHO the software development and integration efforts that are happening on the OLPC project are fantastic. All the companies involved in this project are providing their best engineers: Marvell (who made the wireless chip) have their guys developing the firmware often directly according to the feedback they get from the kernel developers, Red Hat is providing plenty of sw engineers (including Marcelo Tosati, who was the 2.4 kernel maintainer!), AMD and Quanta are working on the hardware platform (recently they made efforts to track the power consumption of every single chip in the laptop), etc. This is just incredible how fast the teams are able to progress in such a cooperative environment. This is a sharp contrast with what happens too often in the ordinary Linux world where cooperation is sometimes difficult or inexistent (e.g. kernel developers unable to obtain hardware specs, or hardware vendors attempting to provide some crappy binary drivers without involving the kernel community, etc).

I certainly expect a very high quality product to come out of this project, both on the hardware level and software level. Every single piece of chip or software has been optimized and fine-tuned to make the whole platform work as best as it can. This is going to be one of the best Linux laptop ever made. Just read their weekly updated news page to get a brief understanding of the technical achievements made possible in such an ultra-cooperative environment: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/News [laptop.org]

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You thought wrong. The laptop is now known as the XO-1 laptop (they have not been able to maintain the price within the original estimation, it is today priced at $188).

The sad thing is that their homepage [laptop.org] still proudly lists the price as $100 in the title

Re:$100+$100 = $399?

I thought this was the $100 laptop?

If so, how is it buying two costs $399?

Because they are built around old Pentium processors. It's just a little rounding error, nothing to be upset about.

In other news, several telecom companies have offered to by old Pentiums for their billing systems.

USD vs. other currencies

Can someone post the USD v. whoever-is-making-is exchange rates comparing now and when the original target price was announced. I'd guess that might account for some of the $100->$200.

In november 2005, when it was first announced by Carlo Negroponte and Kofi Annan [wikipedia.org], it was hoped that it would cost around $100. Currently it is going to cost $188. That's an increase of +88%.

Quanta, the maker, is Taiwan-based. The local currency is the New Taiwan Dollar (NT$, TWD).
The initial $100 was at that time [x-rates.com] 3'358 NT$, and is currently [x-rates.com] 6'214 NT$, which is a ~ +85% increase.

Some may argue that the, because the NT$ isn't a strong currency, the $ may had repercussion that pulled it down allong. Given the fact that there's a lot of international collaboration going on behing the OLPC project, it won't be too far fetched to compare to other international currency for reference.

In Euro, the initial $100 corresponded in 2005 [x-rates.com] to 85.50 , and the current price [x-rates.com] of $188 is 136.25, which is only ~ +60% increase.

In Swiss francs (CHF), the price jumped from [x-rates.com] 131.10 SFrs to [x-rates.com] 223.70 SFrs, which is only ~ +70%.

In Japanese Yen (JPY), the price jumped from [x-rates.com] 11'844 Y to [x-rates.com] 21'619 Y, which is only ~ +82%.

So depending of who we take as a reference point, results do vary, BUT indeed we see that part of the prise increase may come from the dollar itself loosing its value.

What would be most interesting is to see potential buyers :
Brazil (BRL) : 221.00 to 345.28 thus ~ +56% (only)
(The only country from the OLPC's list whose currency history I managed to find... )

Or country that might be targeted (although not currently interested) :
India (INR) : 4'563 Rs to 7'588 Rs thus ~ +66% (only)
Thailand (THB) : 4'110 B to 6'048 B thus ~ +47% (only)

We definitely see a trend there : the price of the OLPC hasn't risen as much in developing countries as it had in the USA.

Thanks to Wikipedia and Google for the DATA.
Not that I am not an economist. Also I only calculated currency. Factoring the Purchasing power, or the duration of work given salaries in those countries, would be interesting too.

I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing ....

that Americans take. They will sell the systems here, but only at a double price. And yet, these systems will soon be in other countries at the low prices.

In addition, we buy these systems, and one will be sent to a developing nation. Well, I have been watching American education heading backwards. While I have defended our Education, it was more based on what I recall as a child. IOW, my generation KNEW the geography that we are accused of not knowing. But I talk to kids today and it is obvious that their core knowledge is degrading (as well as their desire to work). I worry about my kids (1 and 3.5) future. I would like to see at least some of these computers go to American schools. Do not get me wrong. I like donating to developing countries, but we also need to take care of home. Our inner cities need help. Even rural schools could use these.

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

I worry about my kids (1 and 3.5) future.

Is your next kid going to be named '95'?

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

I would like to see at least some of these computers go to American schools. Do not get me wrong. I like donating to developing countries, but we also need to take care of home. Our inner cities need help. Even rural schools could use these.

This is an honest question: why do kids need laptops? Is there some fundamental problem in teaching today that can only be solved with computers?
 

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

This is an honest question: why do kids need laptops? Is there some fundamental problem in teaching today that can only be solved with computers?

Yes. Specifically, they need to know how to use computers. Most of the teachers don't really know how, and worse, most of them are certain that they do. The best way to teach them is to give them a simple one that isn't (readily) capable of playing flashy video games, music, and movies, but can be programmed.

This has to be done before they're thrown the high school "Computer 101" class where they're put through every circle of MS Office Hell. With very few exceptions, you can't start teaching someone to code in college; either they've already been doing it, or they'll never know how. The kids who took the Office classes in high school and think it made them computer savvy don't normally last past the first year in CS.

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Strongly disagree.

Maybe I'm one of the very few in your definition, but on a personal note I've never done any sort of computer programming until my freshman year of college, and even then the course was taught in a manner too liberal for anyone to le

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Never? You mean, not once did you ever write a dinky little game or implement a formula on your graphing calculator, or look at the code for gorillas.bas, or write a DOS batch script? Frankly, I find that hard to believe, considering that you're posting o

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

Okay, I'm playing devil's advocate here. If in fact what you say is true - that programming can't be taught in high school, then how do we have programmers over the age of forty? I graduated from high school in 1981; there were _zero_ pc computers in most high schools back then.

Why do children need to code anyway? And why do they need to use a computer? Isn't it better to teach them to think, and other basics such as reading, writing, and maths?

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

I picked up my first (Basic) programming book in 1978 at Radio Shack and wrote my first program IN THE STORE on a Model 1 (much to the amazement of the sales staff) at age 12 (ok, that dates me too.) The interest was very strong, and I was regularly experimenting with electronic circuits and learning assembly language programming by age 15. In college, I was one of the few that could be regularly found in the Vax lab at midnight.

I am continually AMAZED at how POORLY (in general) educated kids are in computers when the graduate college with a CS degree. Seems like all they have at that point is a basic ability to think, but they don't (again in general) know jack shit about computers, or have the team-work skills either. Yes there are exceptions - typically I have found them to be the type who has had strong interest in HOW things work their entire life, and have been self-teaching well beyond standard course material. The exceptions that only found interest in college seem to be MUCH more rare.

Just how rare are they? Well, typically I get about 300 - 500 applicants for a position, and usually only ONE is *really* good - it's rare to have more. Frequently we don't even find that one, but end up hiring someone anyway. It's been that way for the past 10 years at least.

IMHO, high schools SHOULD offer some type of internals / programming / networking instruction. Hell, they have wood and auto shop, music and art, why not computers? Why should one of the most important tools (computing) for the future of business / industry be left out?

Money and better information.

The XO-1 can replace textbooks and provide better up to date information. Say a school system has six textbooks per student at $50 each. Even if the textbooks are designed to last a decade, that's $300 or $30 a year. School supplies (provided by parents) are at least $30-50 and more often more. The $188 laptop (we'll give it a three year lifespan typical in corporate environments) would be about $63 a year. The textbooks can be up to date and you can add course management and online learning using a free tool like moodle. Lower medical bills for not having to lug around textbooks, expert teachers in rare subjects can be shared between schools, no book repositories to shoot at political figures from. Wins all around.

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

Don't get me wrong, but I personally believe that US Americans are unable to get good education, because Osama people in the nation, and I believe that the education over here in the US should help countries such as everywhere like the Iraq and South Afric

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

It has nothing to do with fleecing Americans. It's about getting the biggest bang for the buck. The limiting factor is US education is not access to computers or to the Internet; US schools already of technology programs. Therefore there is no reason for a charity to try to get these in US hands; they just want adult gadget hounds to underwrite getting these into the hands of kids who don't have technology.

US education has more to fear from ill considered education reforms than a lack of technology. That said, my experience is different with respect to "today's kids". In my state (ed reform is state based) they are much better educated even than kids of my post-Sputnik days, particularly in mathematics.

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

Actually, many schools do not have tech. Here in the Denver region, I see loads of 486s still in use. That is a sign that things are really wrong. The XO can ultimately be used for good material presentation i.e. replace, not supplement, a book. What is needed is for a decent education framework to be in place which allows for ease of use. As I said elsewhere, skip the reader rabbit approach.

BTW, the 2 places that I described as needing these kinds of computers (inner city and rural), really are behind times. As I pointed out elsewhere, they have limited 486's and still use maps with USSR. And as to kids being better at mathematics, I trust that you are kidding. In freshman high school, I was doing calc, along with other kids. While we were a little bit advanced, nearly all the kids came out of school with decent algebra under their belts. Now, American kids can not even return correct change from a buck without the use of a cash register. Algebra? Please.

Re:I like the XO, but I am tired of the fleecing .

It may be a sign things are wrong, or it may be a sign of different educational philosophies. Goethe, Descartes and Einstein all were educated, after all, with no computers at all.

And as to kids being better at mathematics, I trust that you are kidding. In freshman high school, I was doing calc, along with other kids.

I am not kidding. Look, I happen to know that learning calculus as a ninth grader is no big deal. I taught myself Calculus, because it wasn't even offered by my school. It was not typical then for kids in the ninth grade to be ready for Calculus then, any more it is now. More importantly, it is not a particularly impressive or important accomplishment to learn calculus in the ninth grade. Any sufficiently motivated parent can transform a moderately talented child into a "prodigy" capable of doing all kinds of mathematical parlor tricks above his age level. I've seen it happen, and by in large these "prodigies" don't grow into a population of adults that contribute more to society than others of their general talent level.

It is not so important that kids learn things early so much as they learn them well.

The Achilles' heel of ed reform in math is that it often addresses the wrong question. The most important question is not how much math kids can do, so much as the amount of math they understand. It's one thing to be able to perform in an integration bee, it's another thing to be able to think in terms of applied math. In my state, kids in middle school are way ahead of where most high schoolers were in my day in being able to translate everyday problems into mathematical terms. Of course, your state may be different than mine. Remember: ed reform is state based. The Republican educational reform model is broken: it demands "tough standards" but it's quasi "states rights" ideology means those standards cannot have any Federally mandated (or apparently even recommended) content. Thus "education reform" might mean teaching creationism in Kansas or keeping maps of the Soviet Union in place in Colorado (so far as I know).

With respect to 486s -- I'd rather have kids with 486s, the Logo language, and a good teacher than the latest quad core processor, electronic flash cards and an apathetic teacher. Of course this is a false dichotomy, but the point I'm making is that of all the factors involved, the quality of the curriculum and its implementation far outweigh the level of tech.

Re:I agree with a number of points

As to the discussion about republican model, there is none that I know. But you seem to want to compare it against your fiction state, yet do not say why yours is working.

My state is Massachusetts. I did not bring it up, because it automatically brings up a lot of extraneous political issues.

It is not correct to say that ed reform is unambiguously working in Massachusetts. In some areas, such as social sciences, the results are not satisfactory. Ed reform has a number of negative impacts on the quality of education, including, I believe, unhealthy amounts of homework. There are now serious and challenging curricular requirement in Kindergarten, and Kindergarten students are being assigned homework. The state is beginning to talk about curricular requirements in preschool and even as a condition of licensing family day care providers. Many schools are cutting out arts education and sports in order to maximize their performance scores.

These, in my opinion, aren't positive developments.

However in math, the program is the most successful component of the reforms. First, we were early in on the ed reform process, our reforms starting in 1993, seven years ahead of most of the country. Also, when tests are introduced, schools teach to the tests. I've looked at some of the questions in the test MA requires to graduate high school, and their is considerable emphasis on mathematical thinking, which I think is a very good thing to teach. Thought is required to set up the solution of the problem, which is as mechanically challenging as any reasonable person could wish.

The vast majority of adults in the general population would most frequently fail at either the conceptual or mechanical aspects of the problems. More likely both. Provided that the students retain the abilities needed to pass the test, requiring all students to have them is clearly an advance in general mathematical education. It seems likely to me that a program balanced between mathematical thinking and mathematical mechanics will result in higher retention than programs which are exclusively based on being able to perform a collection of algorithms when prompted.

Many of the mechanical skills of arithmetic are introduced at about the same pace as they were in the 60s, or maybe a bit faster. Geometry is more integrated into the curriculum earlier, going back to foundations introduced at the K and 1 level, and really in earnest by the fifth grade. Also, much greater emphasis is put on word problems. Converting word problems into solution plans is taught in parallel with reading, right from Kindergarten (most kids are reading when they enter first grade). Considerable conceptual content is covered all along the way laying the foundations for algebra. This content becomes recognizably algebraic by the fifth grade, although still within the context of a general "math" subject.

There is training on skills that my generation was supposed to pick up on its own. For example, children in my kids' elementary school are drilled in estimating correct answers, as well as producing them algorithmically. Finally these math skills are consciously put to use in the science and technology curriculum, through projects like rocketry or bridge design and testing.

Overall, I don't care if the kids don't see a lick of calculus until they are college, so long as they can find a use for the mechanics of calculus by the time they get out of college. That said, most students would, in my opinion, be well prepared for a strong introductory course by the time they are juniors in high school, not that that is so important. What matters most in mathematics is the strength of the foundation, not the height of the edifice.

Finally, you mention parents. That is one of the major lacking issues these days. They need to be more involved. No doubt about it. But society has changed. Due to the situation that America now finds itself in

Wait! Wait! This is confusing!

"Buy a Laptop for a Child, Get Another Laptop Free"

We're getting a $100 laptop for free when we pay $399 for two?!

Luckily both weren't for free, or we would have to pay $799!

EBay

I can't help wondering when the first round of these appears on eBay. I suspect an American gadget hound who doesn't want to be fleeced will be able to pick one up there on the cheap shortly after they arrive in the collective hands of the Third World.

What about Europe?

Or the rest of the world for that matter. Are we not good enough to buy those? I can see the teen from a third world country who worked and saved his money for years to get one of those, only to be told "Sorry, you can't buy it! You need to be given it, and your government has chosen not to give one to you!"

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I want one of these things, just so I can wander around outside and do some writing/brainstorming while I'm there. The fact that the unique design makes it a good conversation starter is also a plus. I've never seen anything quite so well suited for that

The theory

That poor foreign kids should/need to/want to emulate little American dorks.

Each laptop should come with free samples of Lithium, Prozac, and Ritalin -- plus an instruction guide for developing ADD/ADHD and avoiding contact with girls.

It's about their future, not the price ...

Why should you consider an OLPC over an Eee PC? Because the OLPC program is about giving kids an education and technology that will enable them to build a 1st world future for their 3rd world country. The machine itself has a very accessible user interface: it is highly simplified, and not does not expect the newcomer to be literate in any particular language. (The latter is important because there are many dialects out there, and because children may not be literate when they are initially given these machines.) It also makes learning IT accessible, since it involves two excellent programming tools for the learner: Squeak (via eToys, a.k.a. Squeak), and Python. In many ways, it is about teaching them "how to fish" rather than giving them the fish. If you think about this in dollars and cents, you are missing out on something great. If you think that they should be given food or the ability to grow it, you're missing out on something too. Not everyone is able to contribute to the welfare of others in the same way. Negroponte and his band of loyal academics, geeks, and so forth decided that their ability to contribute is through IT. After all, that's where their skills and aspirations lay. The food first angle also misses the point that the peoples of many nations don't want to be stuck in a subsistence or donor recipient situation. The want an education so that they can grow beyond the handouts of the 1st world. (Of course other peoples and other nations have other aspirations.) To some, the OLPC may step beyond the bounds. The OLPC is not perfect, and it isn't only about price. It's initial introductory mantra of the "$100 laptop" was mostly about making it accessible by making it inexpensive. And even though it is $400, I hope to snag one through this deal. I have seen the computer, and it is rugged and useful. As an educator, I also see that it may have more utility than the standard "made for the office" desktop/laptop PC. Perhaps I would also use it to contribute back to the project if I did get one.

Re:they just don't get it

Because American teens are the only ones who are able to benefit from / use /deveop with this platform? Recall that this system is intended for developing nations, it's only being made available to the US on the two for one offer as a way of getting more systems to other countries (and ramp up the publicity I guess).

Re:Donation? Feed the kids first...

Someone says this in every OLPC article.

The laptops aren't intended for places where there's a lack of food; they're intended to help build nations where roads, electricity, and food are taken care of.

Re:Very dissapointed.

Look at it this way. You're buying one for your kid. And also for some strangers kid. Its a selfless act.

IMO, Americans could do with far more such selflessness these days.

What would be really great in my opinion is if the two laptops were somehow registered such that the kids can get to know each other .. this would be an astoundingly peaceful action. What modern child wouldn't want to communicate with another kid around the world using their new laptops?

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IMO, Americans could do with far more such selflessness these days.

Actually 70% of American households give at least $1800 per year, that is more than most countries.
http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2005/May/10-36789.html [state.gov]

According to this USA Today arti

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"Dear Amari,

It's Thanksgiving here! We're having a big feast later today, with enough food to feed 3 families! What's new with you?

Jimmy"

"Dear Jimmy,

I had a feast just yesterday. We ate some leaves and drank tan water. Much better than the brown

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Ah, a classic /. post then. You know nothing about the subject, you haven't read the article, you have nothing of value to say, yet you insist on posting your ill-informed opinion anyway. Why doesn't this surprise me any more?