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Gateway Customer Sues to Get His PC Fixed

Posted by Zonk on Sat Jun 09, 2007 07:19 AM
from the toss-the-tossing-toses dept.
prostoalex writes "The Sacramento Bee tells the story of an El Dorado resident who had to go to small claims court to get his Gateway PC fixed: 'Right out of the box, he says, the computer displayed scattered graphics and wouldn't work properly. He says he called a Gateway salesman five times and sent him an e-mail to get an authorization number to send the computer back, but his phone calls and message were never returned. Then, over the course of months, Sheehan said he called Gateway technical support dozens of times.' Gateway insists that by clicking 'Accept' on a customer service EULA when the computer was first booted, Mr. Sheehan has waived his rights to sue the computer manufacturer in United States courts. The Gateway EULA states that conflicts must be resolved via private arbitrage. Sheehan, though, argues that he never saw the EULA, because of the broken graphics. As such, he's not held to that agreement." Some connections between this and a discussion about a Second Life case we had yesterday.
+ -
story

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  • Yes... (Score:5, Informative)

    by evilviper (135110) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:22AM (#19449591) Journal

    Some connections between this and a discussion about a Second Life case we had yesterday.

    And even more connection to THIS ARTICLE from yesterday:
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/ 07/2317239 [slashdot.org]
    • [_] Zonk is reposting for those who don't have the CowboyNeal option ,,, (original story [slashdot.org] posted by CowboyNeal).

      ... [_] Zonk is the new CowboyNeal, like orange was the new pink

      [_] Zonk uses a Gateway and can't see the stories

      [_] Zonk - "Hmmm this is a dupe story, I think I'll can it ... OMG Ponies!"

      [_] "What goes around, comes around, especially on /.."

      [_] This is a "Best of slashdot" repeat presentation"

      [_] "I didn't see the original story on my f***ed-up Gateway, you ignorant clod!"

      [_] There

      • Actually, it makes me wonder if the editors can read, period.

        Is there a "Mavis Beacon teaches reading comprehension" course on the web?

  • Zonk (Score:5, Funny)

    by PenGun (794213) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:27AM (#19449613) Homepage
    He just posts here ... I don't think he reads the site much.
  • Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nighty5 (615965) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:28AM (#19449623)
    Some awesome legalise there.

    Regardless if a user accepts a EULA, its actually against the law to unlawfully restrict their rights in tapping into some legal protection for sale of faulty goods. Well it is in Australia, I'm sure the US has similar laws to protect consumers.

    Don't accept this garbage - I'm glad his fighting for his rights to receive what was intended - a working product.

    • Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)

      by _KiTA_ (241027) on Saturday June 09 2007, @08:05AM (#19449777) Homepage

      Regardless if a user accepts a EULA, its actually against the law to unlawfully restrict their rights in tapping into some legal protection for sale of faulty goods. Well it is in Australia, I'm sure the US has similar laws to protect consumers.


      Actually... given the brazen attitude of EULA writers, I don't think we do. I know that EULAs are changed to be more consumer friendly in the UK and Australia, simply because if they tried half the shit there that they try here they'd get sued by the government, but they keep trying it here, so it must be at least somewhat legal, right?
      • IANAL, but my general understanding of a 'covenant not to sue' is that a covenant not sue that has a 1:1 relationship is likely to stand up in court, as it is a release of liability, at least as to the items enumerated in the covenant (i.e., you agree not to sue someone for product liability, but then trip on their sidewalk, you can still sue them for the sidewalk). But a covenant not sue that has a 1:many relationship is not likely to stand up.

        IOW, while someone agreeing to such a EULA may be limited in
      • #include <ianal.h>

        The elements of a contract are Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration. Once you've agreed to certain terms and money has changed hands, neither party can impose additional terms on the other. I know that argument by analogy is fraught with peril, but let's try this one on for size:

        I buy a new Chevy. My signature is on the purchase contract, I've handed the salesman a check and he's given me the keys. I get in the car, turn the key, and out of the dashboard comes an End User Lice

  • by iknownuttin (1099999) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:35AM (#19449645)
    "We are at a point now where every large corporation that has the ability to say 'take it or leave it' is opting out of the civil justice system," said Cliff Palefsky, a San Francisco trial lawyer and expert on arbitration agreements. "Some do it in a straightforward manner. Others do it in an underhanded manner."

    The securities brokerage industry, stocks, bonds, etc.. has been doing this for decades. If you want a brokerage account, I don't care where, you have to agree to an industry arbitration. And some business magazine, I believe "Forbes", many years ago found that the arbitration panels are heavily loaded in the industries favor.

    I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it sounds like everything is weighted in favor of the company and against the consumer.

    On the other hand, many times consumers cause themselves their own problems and refuse to take responsibility for them. Whether it be installing boards incorrectly themselves, or gambling on the derivatives market. I, for one, don't want to have to pay other's litigations, whether through increased product costs, or insurance costs.

    As Gateway tells it in court filings, the company replaced Sheehan's computer a few months after he first complained, and he kept both machines.

    Oh yeah, it sounds like, if Gateway is telling the truth, that this guy is trying to "game" the system and get a free computer.

  • :S... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by joe 155 (937621) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:36AM (#19449647) Journal
    Despite the fact that this is such an obvious dupe...

    I wonder about EULA if there was no way that you could have read it, if it would still be taken as being binding (if it can be at all, but someone last time suggested they might be). For example if you were registered blind (which can include very poor vision, at least in the UK) and windows asks you to agree to a EULA, you can see just enough to see there is something on the screen but without a screen reader (which you would need to install after accepting the EULA), you would have no idea what was going on. Here it would seem like randomly pressing things until something happened is a good solution. So you could accept even if there was no way you could have known...

    In this situation would they not be in violation of disability legislation?
  • by richg74 (650636) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:57AM (#19449747) Homepage

    The Gateway EULA states that conflicts must be resolved via private arbitrage.

    I suspect it states that conflicts must be resolved by arbitration. "Arbitrage" is primarily an economics term; my dictionary defines it thus:

    The purchase of securities on one market for immediate resale on another market in order to profit from a price discrepancy.
    Both words do ultimately come from the same Latin root, though ('arbitrari', to render a judgment).
  • by Alain Williams (2972) on Saturday June 09 2007, @08:29AM (#19449861) Homepage
    Cost of fixing the bust PC: $200

    Cost of lost sales due to bad publicity: $200,000

    How does that make sense ?
  • by jadin (65295) on Saturday June 09 2007, @10:27AM (#19450413) Homepage
    I installed software once that had the best EULA ever. While it did have the "legal speak" version you had to agree to, it also had a recap in layman's terms. Made it very very easy to see what you were agreeing to.

    Example (not a real example, but you get the idea) :

    1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access, display and run one copy of the Software on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not be used by more than one processor at any one time on any single Workstation Computer.

    Becomes

    1.1 You get one copy for one computer.
  • Kids (Score:5, Funny)

    by 7311587 (755664) on Saturday June 09 2007, @11:04AM (#19450665)
    I get my kids to click EULA's since contracts with minors are not valid.
    • Dupe tag, anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by evanbd (210358) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:43AM (#19449683)
      What happened to the "dupe" tag? Why doesn't it show up any more? Obviously I'm not the only one to notice, as it seems to have been replaced by "duped." So what happened to it, and all the humorous tags -- haha, itsatrap, etc. What gives?
      • Re:Dupe tag, anyone? (Score:5, Informative)

        by asninn (1071320) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:58AM (#19449753)

        From http://slashdot.org/faq/tags.shtml [slashdot.org] :

        Use dupe only when a Slashdot story is an actual duplicate of a previous Slashdot story, offering no new information. [...] These tags will alert us to problems immediately (but they won't show up on the top tags list).

        Not sure about the rest (like "haha" etc.), though.

        • by gEvil (beta) (945888) on Saturday June 09 2007, @08:37AM (#19449889)
          These tags will alert us to problems immediately (but they won't show up on the top tags list).

          And what happens once the editor has been "alerted"? My guess is they might go "Oh, whoops" and then move along to go post the next dupe...
    • by supersat (639745) on Saturday June 09 2007, @07:55AM (#19449741)
      Not only that, but they have no way to know if you've accepted the EULA.

      AFAIK, Gateway doesn't offer Linux as an OS option. If you want to run Linux, you'll probably boot to a Linux install disc the first time you turn on your machine, bypassing any EULA and nuking it in the install process. I suppose they could build it into the BIOS, but if they combine all of the EULAs into one, then you'll be forced to accept them even if you never use the software the EULAs cover.

      Really, the proper thing to do is make these conditions part of the terms of sale, made known to the customer BEFORE the sale is made.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      It's worse than that, most EULAs are only visible AFTER you bought the software which pretty much renders them invalid.

      It'd be like signing the lease for a new car, then 5 mins when you get into the car you find a notice in the glove box saying "you also can't sue us when you realize this is a lemon."

      EULAs are not part of the purchase agreement and are therefore not binding.

      Tom
      • by Eudial (590661) on Saturday June 09 2007, @09:13AM (#19450029)

        You know, you can opt out of the moderation system. Just click on options up the top, and then homepage, scroll down to

        [x] Willing to Moderate

        and uncheck the box.


        O, I am willing to moderate. It's just I accidentally cranked open a huge canister of -1 troll on the wrong post. Figured I didn't want to spoil the poor guy's karma.