No Windows (Officially) On OLPC

Kadin2048 writes "Despite reports last week in major news sources indicating that the One Laptop Per Child project was in negotiations with Microsoft to bring Windows XP to the low-cost platform, Walter Bender, president of Software and Content at OLPC, said in an interview with Ars Technica, 'We are a free and open-source shop. We have no one from OLPC working with Microsoft on developing a Windows platform for the XO.'"

Makes a lot of the previous comments

[Timesprout]

re MS forcing the price of the OLPC up with their hardware requirements look very silly now doesn't it.

Re:Makes a lot of the previous comments

[spencer4554]

MS is at the root of all evils in the world. You look silly for not seeing the big picture here.

Re:

[DragonWriter]

All it really seems to say is that OLPC staff aren't working on porting Windows, which no one, that I recall, ever claimed. The project has, however, also stated [theregister.co.uk] that Qanta, the company that is building the computer for the project, is working with Microsoft on Windows for the computer.

Reasons for hardware upgrades

[feranick]

The hardware upgrades weren't done because of MS. The CPU upgrade was done because the newer Geode offers a bigger cash, that helps speeding up the Python interpreter. AMD provided the new chip for the same price of the old. The Memory upgrade was a specific request of the involved countries. They were requesting it because with a bigger flash the machine would be have remained usable for an extended number of years. The SD card was an addition that MS appreciated, but was unrelated. The chip controller had

Re:

[Locutus]

I could see either an SD slot or the extra FLASH but both seem to provide the same feature of added storage space. And just because the chipset has the support, it's not free or cheap. The SD slot required a new case and planarboard layout and it opens the package to environmental incursions. But like I said, putting expanded onboard FLASH or removable FLASH provide the same function. As far as increasing system runtime memory from 128MB to 256MB goes, it's a toss up as to if this really buys you anything

Re:

[mrchaotica]

FLASH...FLASH...FLASH...

Either "FLASH" is actually an acronym (and I didn't realize it), or you're making your post really annoying to read.

Re:

[Locutus]

point taken, it's Flash not all caps. I'll use EEPROM instead. ;-)

LoB

Re:

[feranick]

Ohps, good catch! I obviously meant "cache"....

What idiots?!

[StarKruzr]

Clearly you are a Microsoft disinformation agent! From Costa Rica!

Heh...

[Anonymous Coward]

If there's one thing you can believe coming from the OLPC people, it's when they acknowledge that they don't have something!

3 bucks?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bender also indicated that Microsoft has not contacted OLPC regarding its $3 software bundling program, nor have any governments requested that the XO be outfitted with Windows.

I'm sure Microsoft did contact them, and asked for $50 in licensing fees per unit to ship it with Windows Vista Crippled Edition Ultimate, so Bender told them to bite his shiny ass.

Open Software Would Be The Better Choice

[NeverVotedBush]

I am glad to hear that it won't be Windows. Open software is a much better choice when you are trying to distribute low-cost computers to every child. Windows would have locked them into the Windows upgrade cycle, required frequent net access for updates, and would have just hidden a lot of the internals from the kids.

Open software, while it also requires updates, gives them a much better platform on which to learn. They can explore *nix operating systems, add programs - almost always for free, plus it will build an open software user base around the world. Not that that isn't already happening as more and more countries and companies switch to open source software, but by bringing on a new generation, this will be the push to put open source over the top.

Spare me

[Shivetya]

Open software is a much better choice when you are trying to distribute low-cost computers to every child. Windows would have locked them into the Windows upgrade cycle, required frequent net access for updates, and would have just hidden a lot of the internals from the kids.



Get real, these are not machines destined for upgrades and I seriously doubt a full blown version of windows would have ever be used.


Besides, if you want to get nit picky. Windows delivers updates very easily and wholly hidden should y

Re:

[walt-sjc]

They are more concerned with making sure these people can communicate with each other, receive information helpful to their daily lives (like weather)

The OLPC is purely designed to be a teaching tool. That's it. This is the One Laptop Per CHILD program, not One Laptop Per Parent or Per Family. It has nothing to do with adults communicating with each other or checking the weather. It may be able to do that, but that's not what it is designed for. It will also never be a substitute for a real teacher, and is

Re:

[Locutus]

then why are the parents sending the kids to school instead of into labor camps,etc? I would think that there are SOME parents in these regions really trying to put their children in better positions than they are in. I would think that these kinds of parents would do more to make sure these kids took care of the OLPC device instead of taking it from their school kids and selling it off for food.

I'm sure there will be some of this but for the most part, the governments involved would be somewhat concerned w

Re:Open Software Would Be The Better Choice

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also a great way of ensuring that they never threaten the jobs of any of us in the first world, since they won't have a clue how to use the OS that 95% of our businesses use.

Says the person who learns by rote. [wikipedia.org]

I'm willing to bet these kids will be exposed to more OSs than you & know more about general computing concepts than you when they're twenty.

The lucky kids will grow up with OLPC, be exposed to other linux flavours/Windows/OS X/whatever in other situations & end up know more about computer than you EVER will.

Re:

[daem0n1x]

I use Linux exclusively at home. My wife, who is very far from being a computer geek, uses it for her everyday tasks, and she almost never notices the difference.

So, for the majority of people, what's so special about Windows that will give them soooo much competitive advantage if they learn it instead of other platform?

Re:

[tnk1]

So, for the majority of people, what's so special about Windows that will give them soooo much competitive advantage if they learn it instead of other platform?

Applications. Experience with an OS that they are likely going to be forced to use at some point.

The OS feels like an experiment in elementary education. I think its a poor idea to tie cheap computers for poor students to a particular line of educational experimentation. If they want to make it available to students to run that OS, great. I just

Re:

[Vihai]

Oh... but since they ARE the new generation, guess how much your clue will be useful when 95% of the business will use ANOTHER OS :)

Anyway... don't worry... there is always market for "legacy systems support"

Re:

[TheMeuge]

Something tells me that the people that the program is targeting are not going to be doing many spreadsheets for a Fortune500 company.

Re:

[Kadin2048]

Something tells me that the people that the program is targeting are not going to be doing many spreadsheets for a Fortune500 company.

Yeah, you say that now, but 10 or 15 years ago I bet you'd probably never have thought that some guy in Bangalore would be on the other end of the line when you called tech support...

Re:Open Software Would Be The Better Choice

[eno2001]

Looks like someone is assuming that the CIOs of the future are idiots. Only an idiot latches onto one single tool and eschews all others. I'm a 100% hardcore Linux guy, but I don't avoid Windows or Macintosh. Why? Because I can use them all completely and thoroughly to do whatever it is I need. How is it that I can navigate multiple OS platforms so easily? Because I have a clear understanding of what it is that the system is doing behind the scenes instead of just memorizing how an application works. Gimp? Photoshop? Same thing in my mind. CMD is just sh's retarded cousin. "My Computer"? Finder? Nautilus? Konqueror? All identical concepts in my mind. There is NO difference if you're not a moron. Now wake the fuck up, get to learning and quit posting worthless shit on the net you asswipe.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Amen to that. Every time I hear someone talk about "retraining" it makes me think of how shitty their training must have been in the first place.

Re:

[networkBoy]

In all fairness it is vastly easier to use cmd if you understand it is sh's retarded cousin.
also, if you are used to hopping between KDE and Gnome, then windows doesn't hold much issue.
going the other way, however, can be somewhat problematic.

I grew up on hand me down computers. My dad bought a 286 when they were the latest and greatest, I ended up with an NEC8000 system (C/PM), a convergent technologies box (unknown... SYS IV?), a programmable HP terminal that printed on thermal tape and programmed in BAS

Re:

[drinkypoo]

In all fairness it is vastly easier to use cmd if you understand it is sh's retarded cousin.

Sure, just as it's easier to use command.com if you understand it too is sh's retarded cousin. DOS is basically a fuckover of CP/M into a form that looks and smells slightly like a rotten Unix.

if you are used to hopping between KDE and Gnome, then windows doesn't hold much issue. going the other way, however, can be somewhat problematic.

I normally use GNOME (my work laptop primarily runs Ubuntu, all of my home mac

Re:

[Locutus]

That is the one thing I just can not get across to people who are afraid to try Linux instead of Windows. These people are having a very hard time keeping their systems running and many cases have paid over $200 a couple of times to have their systems completely rebuilt because of software problems. It seems that a very few actually understand the basic concepts and just memorize ways to do certain tasks. You wouldn't believe how many Windows users email me by finding an old email and clicking the 'reply'

Re:

[evilviper]

I'm a 100% hardcore Linux guy,

Please phrase that differently in the future. Typos can and do happen, and a small typo in that sentence could have been a killer...

Re:

[Silver Sloth]

I suppose it's inherrant in /. that you equate OS usage with job ability.

The most important thing is that they are getting access to the internet, with all that that implies. As such it doesn't matter what OS they use, or realy which browser. But above and beyond that, anyone with any nous can swap between OS with little or no difficulty and it really doesn't matter if the office tools are M$ or OO, they both teach you how to use office tools.

And, cost wise, if it's a choice between an affordable system w

Re:

[marcosdumay]

Yet, they'll know how to use a OS that increases their productivity, not decreases it... They won't compete direcly with you on IT, but they'll (everything being the same) out-compete you on every other area that they are able to affect. And that includes the people how pay your salary.

Of course, everything never stays the same. So, wait for big changes at the IT industry.

Re:

[marcello_dl]

Windows is easy to use if the only OS you ever used is windows.

Re:

[evilviper]

Windows is easy to use if the only OS you ever used is windows.

Nope, it still isn't.

Windows requires you to defragment regularly, and install (commercial) software that can do boot-time defragmenting. Windows requires you to (usually buy) antivirus software and allow it resources on a regular basis to scan your system. Windows requires spyware scan and removal tools. Windows requires the skills to edit the registry to remove stale or corrupt entries. Windows requires the time and skill to reinstall the

Re:

[Miseph]

But it's not... you see, the only real reason to keep using one OS over another is inertia, and by introducing these kids to *nix, they are going to have inertia in that direction. Things won't stay the way they are forever, we can be sure of that because they never do, and the future is always shaped by the children, not the adults.

They'll keep using whatever they want to use, just like we'll keep using whatever we want to use; the difference being that they'll be alive well after we're dead and in the gro

Re:

[mstahl]

Eh no. It's not.

As someone else brought up earlier, the people this program is targeting are not the same people who businesses here in the first world are going to be hiring to do their enterprise MS voodoo for them. What you're not realizing is that with all the kids in these third-world countries using linux, it will be 100% of the computer-using population in these countries using linux. You think they all want to move to the US or Europe and work for some corporation? How many third-world countries ha

that's fine

[r00t]

The 1% of kids who care are the 1% who can do the most to power the economy. They are the ones worth supplying computers to, even at the effective $10000 per machine if you assume the other kids (99%) get no use out of their machines.

Re:

[ajs318]

most people don't give a fuck about the "internals" of the operating system.

But a few people do, and they care a lot. It's important for their sakes that the internals be exposed.

windows just works.

You have seriously low expectations if you think Windows "works". Go and look at a proper unix system sometime -- preferably the sort whose reliability record GNU/Linux would be jealous of.

I don't see how this is any turnaround

[AEton]

For unrelated reasons, I was reading the OLPC Wiki's Myths page [laptop.org] weeks ago and noticed this entry, which hasn't changed any in the time since:

The proposed $100 machine will run a Microsoft Windows operating system
True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop. False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.

Re:

[vhogemann]

Well...

If Microsoft manage to fit a XP/Vista compatible OS inside the OLPC, I guess many people will be purchasing it to install on their desktops.. It would be perfect for a gaming machine!

Re:

[gEvil (beta)]

It would be perfect for a gaming machine!

Yeah, I can't wait to get a machine that's capable of playing Solitaire, Minesweeper, and FreeCell...

Re:

[vhogemann]

If it is XP/Vista compatible, probably it will be DirectX compatible too... It's just a matter of installing it on a full desktop computer.

Re:I don't see how this is any turnaround

[jabuzz]

They changed the processor from a Geode GX1 which uses SDRAM to a faster Geode LX700 which uses less power and DDR memory. I would hazard a guess that the difference between 128MB of SDRAM and 256MB of DDR RAM is minimal, and it will make a difference to Linux.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I can imagine that 256MB may be the smallest capacity of that memory type that's still in mass production, and it probably doesn't cost any more to get. One may as well take advantage of economies of scales.

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

Here's a thought: perhaps the OLPC software does require the extra space? I'm really tired of the chronic mantra that "Linux/FreeBSD/whatever doesn't need memory/CPU speed/whatever" -- it's a classic piece of misdirection. Yes, Linux itself can run on a stripped-down system -- but GNU/Linux is a memory hog, particularly when GUI interfaces are involved.

I think it's far more likely that Negroponte followed the lead of his brother who believed in flowers-and-candy welcomes on the basis of a serial con-man h

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Go back to the early pieces on OLPC: how many people kept saying that (Nick) Negroponte was either deluded or lying about the cost, and that by the time it came out, the OLPC would cost almost exactly what a cheap laptop with Windows cost? Surprise -- that's exactly what happened.

A cheap Windows notebook costs $175? Or am I missing something else? There aren't many notebooks under $500.

Linux used to be able to operate in small spaces with low power requirements, the same with Windows, NT4 was very compact

Re:

[Kadin2048]

Linux used to be able to operate in small spaces with low power requirements, the same with Windows, NT4 was very compact and stable. The problem comes in when you start adding all the unnecessary eye candy and comprehensive desktop environments.

And Linux still can (and for that matter Windows probably still could, too, except you can't get at the source, so you can't really strip it down and remove the GUI layers); the problem is that the OLPC people have decided, probably not unreasonably, that they want

Re:

[drinkypoo]

GNU/Linux is a memory hog, particularly when GUI interfaces are involved.

1) It's not called GNU/Linux, no matter how much you want it to be, until Linus changes the trademark.

2) When you're writing your own GUI, you can make it smaller and lighter than GNOME or what have you. Reference FBUI [comcast.net] which would run on a fucking game boy if you could get the rest of the kernel there.

Go back to the early pieces on OLPC: how many people kept saying that (Nick) Negroponte was either deluded or lying about the cost, a

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

You're right: Linux the kernel isn't called GNU/Linux, which is why I differentiated between Linux and GNU/Linux in my original post. Linux plus the GNU toolchain, though? You know what? Stallman has every right to require that his fat, bloated, unstable, and poorly structured set of Unix tool replacements be credited. So I do so, when I'm talking about the whole mess.

Re:

[MikeBabcock]

Start working for change then, including using uClibc [uclibc.org] instead of glibc and avoiding other bloat-ware. Projects are still stuck using many bloated GNU tools but there are in fact replacements for some.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Stallman has every right to require that his fat, bloated, unstable, and poorly structured set of Unix tool replacements be credited.

No, actually, he does not. He gave up that right when he licensed them with the GPL.

If he wanted credit, then there should have been an advertising clause in the GPL that said you can require the use of your chosen name.

Since there isn't, he has explicitly given up that right.

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

No, actually, he does not. He gave up [the right to require acknowledgment] when he licensed them with the GPL.

I've read the GPL awfully closely, and I don't see a "you can't ask for credit" clause. You are certainly right that he gave up the right to require acknowledgment -- but there's nowhere that he gave up the right to ask for it.

And, if Linux is "just a kernel", as I'm often reminded, then there should be a distinct name for the kernel + userspace + toolchain, precisely for cases where they have different properties.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Stallman has every right to require that his fat, bloated, unstable, and poorly structured set of Unix tool replacements be credited.

No, actually, he does not. He gave up that right when he licensed them with the GPL.

I've read the GPL awfully closely, and I don't see a "you can't ask for credit" clause. You are certainly right that he gave up the right to require acknowledgment

That's nice, I'm glad you agree with all I said, since I never said he couldn't ask for credit, but only that he couldn't

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

Amazingly, there are a number of such names. For example Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Fedora, Ubuntu, Slackware...

And all of them have one thing in common: they're all particular implementations of GNU/Linux.

Re:

[ajs318]

Debian have created GNU/FreeBSD, GNU/Hurd and GNU/OpenSolaris operating systems. Same userland programs, different kernel.

You probably could get the FreeBSD userland to work with a Linux kernel, too. For that matter, some parts of Slackware and Debian did originally come from one or other of the BSDs, and in fact Debian have started looking to OpenBSD for certain security-related packages.

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

You probably could get the FreeBSD userland to work with a Linux kernel, too.

Possibly, but, IMHO, unlikely. There are a lot of subtle but important differences. And your system still be contaminated by gcc; does FreeBSD itself even build on pcc any more?

Re:

[ajs318]

I hardly think GCC is "contamination". You're free to do most things with it, apart from rape it by turning it into a closed-source proprietary product.

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

glibc is contamination, at least to a BSD adherent. GCC -> GLIBC -> contamination of your binary by LGPL code.

Re:

[Locutus]

the "Linux" brand is protected and must be licensed if used in the product name. Linus owns those rights and actively protects it.

LoB

Re:

[Locutus]

he may have given up that right in the license but he deserves credit none the less and calling a packaged system one based on GNU/Linux or Linux/GNU isn't so difficult to do. What people call Linux would be no where near where it is today with the would of the GNU environment and what the FSF did and does. are those 4 characters so difficult to type?

LoB

Re:

[drinkypoo]

are those 4 characters so difficult to type?

they're difficult for me to want to type. so I don't.

Guess what? GNU got nearly all of their current visibility from Linux. (And yes, I too was using gnu tools before Linux existed, so I do have some perspective.) Linux could have come out of BSD instead of Minix and GNU.

Tell you what, I'll refer to it as GNU/Linux as soon as every FSF-owned GPL program out there is renamed with the name of every single contributor prefixed to its name. As this would result in

Re:

[Locutus]

whatever.

BTW, you have just got to love Microsoft Windows then. I wonder how many times the name "Microsoft" is plastered all over the startup screen on MS Vista. And all those Microsoft apps... I don't recall what version of MS Windows it was but one of them had their name on the startup screen something like four times.

LoB

Re:

[drinkypoo]

This is a stupid argument because Microsoft owns Windows outright (aside from some BSD-licensed code) and they have the right to plaster their name all over it - but regardless, I don't call it Microsoft Office, I call it "Office" like everyone else on the planet. Ditto for Windows, SQL Server, etc etc. If I don't even call Microsoft products by their full name, which they actually deserve, why would I call a Linux distribution GNU/Linux? Shit, I don't even call RHEL "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" unless I'm do

Re:

[Locutus]

EOF

LoB

Re:

[Coryoth]

I'm really tired of the chronic mantra that "Linux/FreeBSD/whatever doesn't need memory/CPU speed/whatever" -- it's a classic piece of misdirection. Yes, Linux itself can run on a stripped-down system -- but GNU/Linux is a memory hog, particularly when GUI interfaces are involved.

When the wrong GUI interfaces, that are designed for more powerful desktop machines, are used then yes, the memory requirements increase. Then again this looks like a GUI to me [openmoko.com], running just fine on a fairly stripped down device -- it has only as much RAM as the original spec for the XO laptops.

Re:

[YU Nicks NE Way]

Have you looked at the hardware specs for the "fairly stripped down device"? The Samsung ARM 9 processor alone is quite a bit beefier than you appear to realize.

Re:

[Locutus]

also remember that the OLPC software stack was chosen to use an interpreted environment( Python ) for the complete application stack. There are benefits to this and costs, one of which is performance. There is also a cost related to resolution of the display and a smaller display requires less resources than a larger one.

it was probably a very interesting design meeting where it was discussed if the desktop system was going to be native compiled system or interpreted. We know what won but the detail of the

What these kids may ACTUALLY do

[elrous0]

*My* biggest question is "What are these kids actually going to DO with these computers anyway?" The sort of starry-eyed idealistic answer given by OLPC is basically "They're going to use educational software to learn, use the internet to better themselves, etc."

But take a hard, realistic look at countries like Nigeria and THEIR experience [cnn.com] with an impoverished population gaining access to the internet. When poor Nigerians got access to the internet, they didn't use it to primarily to better themselves--th

Re:

[cwgmpls]

Distribute and read e-books, for one thing. Most developing countries can't afford enough books for their students. For the first time ever, all participating students will have access to large libraries of books and other materials.

Re:

[DragonWriter]

Did you upgrade the XO just so "third party" software (OS) makers (MS) can release their software for your laptop? You dident deny it yet.

Yeah, actually, they did. They've already said the hardware upgrades were because the countries that have signed on (Libya and Uruguay among them) asked for more RAM and a faster processor to increase the useful life of the computers. It's also worth noting that while this is portrayed as a huge price increase, when the initial countries were signing on, the estimated cos

Does it matter ?

[ceroklis]

They may not be collaborating with Microsoft on this issue, but this is not going to prevent Microsoft from porting Windows to the XO and trying to sell it (or give it away) to the governments that will purchase the laptops.

I am sure some countries will be more than happy to get cheap laptops on one side and then install Windows on them in exchange for a large discount from Microsoft for their government's Windows/Office licenses on the other. Thailand, I am looking at you.

Some countries involved in the program are serious about free software, but I am afraid others are just looking for a bargain. Not to be pessimistic but I will wait to see what happens before considering the OLPC project as an incredible boon for free software, like some people here.

Re:

[griffjon]

More specifically, and along the lines of previous commenter Aelion, OLPC itself (as Bender says) is not working on getting it installed, but they have given MS some test OLPC laptops to play with. I guess it depends on how you define "collaboration"

Re:

[gad_zuki!]

>They may not be collaborating with Microsoft on this issue, but this is not going to prevent Microsoft from porting Windows to the XO and trying to sell it (or give it away) to the governments that will purchase the laptops.

So? What ever happened to freedom to innovate and freedom to tinker? Oh right, that doesnt apply when you use MS (or whoever is the bad guy nowadays) software. Maybe it should only run signed code to keep the boogeyman away. Is the DIY/tinker ethic just for FOSS now? How much of t

Re:

[Waffle Iron]

What ever happened to freedom to innovate and freedom to tinker?

It was killed by the Xbox lockdown hardware.

Re:

[ceroklis]

First, I have nothing against users or editors of proprietary software. As an individual user you can evaluate software on different criteria (functionality, price, familiarity, ease of use, supported platforms, use of closed or open file formats/protocols, code quality, existence of irritating activation/licensing/time bomb schemes, support options, ability to study/audit/modify the code, ability to distribute modified versions, ...) and make choices based on what is more important to you. Not everyone wi

Re:

[evilviper]

I am sure some countries will be more than happy to get cheap laptops on one side and then install Windows on them in exchange for a large discount from Microsoft for their government's Windows/Office licenses on the other.

That's absolutely an insane idea.

First of all, countries aren't going to spend tens of millions of dollars on the OLPCs, to get a few thousand dollars in discounts from Microsoft. Second, they aren't going to be stupid enough to cripple the OLPC machines they are spending such a large am

Think about the children!

[CdrGlork]

But everyone knows having a Windows OS teaches a child invaluable lessons in stress management!

That's too bad

[lakiw]

I was looking forward to using the "show code" button on Windows.

BTW, yes there is an actual "show code" button on the keyboard. It's really cool. You can edit the code of most of the included applications and apply changes on the fly. I know it's for kids, but I REALLY want one of these laptops. Check it out at www.laptop.org

Re:That's too bad

[TheRaven64]

Why don't you check out Squeak [squeak.org] for your desktop or laptop. There's even an OS in progress that runs Squeak on the bare metal [squeak.org], with bootstrapping code in assembly and everything else in Squeak. Everything in Squeak is an object, including pixels in the frame buffer, and can have its code inspected and modified at run time. It should come as no surprise that Alan Kay is heavily involved with both projects.

Re:

[Locutus]

that is great but I hope that the customized code doesn't go back to the same location. I can't believe the OLPC people would do that and expect that what'll happen is a copy of the original program/application is made instead. The new version should still be accessable from the Sugar interface but identified as custom some way or another. Have a way to share that new program would be cool too and using the mesh network to share it makes complete sense.

It's these kinds of things which give me hope that the

i hope windows does not get in OLPC

[FudRucker]

putting WinXP in OLPC would be like trying to stuff a hippopotamus in to a compact car...

Re:i hope windows does not get in OLPC

[madhatter256]

There is TinyXP. it takes up 400mbs, and requires at least 40mb RAM. Google it as it will come up with information about it, and also download links. I'm sure posting links like that are violation of the rules here on slashdot, so I won't take that chance.

Re:

[griffjon]

I'm sure posting links like that are violation of the rules here on slashdot, so I won't take that chance.

You must be new here...

So much for....

[madhatter256]

So much for OLPC for having its potential buyers in getting to use software that the majority of the world uses.

I think this project is a waste of resources. Why build new and crippled systems (hardware-wise) and sell it to third world countries and call it a humanitarian service when there are thousands of old computers that are in working condition, capable of running XP and other modern software, but are not being used at all or are being thrown out. We could be saving a ton of resources if we just had a

Re:

[Vexorian]

define crippled and non-standard.

electricity

[zogger]

All of those used computers and the displays needed you mention require being plugged into the mains, which may or may not exist where these little laptops are going. The laptops are self powered with a pull string generator charger. That makes a rather big difference one might think. They are also LAPTOPS, which means the kids can haul them to and from school, etc. They also have integral MESH NETWORKING, which your used desktop systems don't have.

And so on. Every one of these points has been brainstormed,

Re:

[Russ Nelson]

Charging the poor for new books is by no means charity. Do you think the poor should not have new books? Do you think they should all have to read books cast-off by the west?

Re:

[ajs318]

The OLPC is not designed for that. Passing on our cast-offs to someone who can use them is one thing, and it's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself (unless it ends up overloading the electricity / telecoms infrastructure or mucking up established working practices) but OLPC aims to be something radically different.

The ultimate aim is for some future revision of the OLPC design to be manufactured in the third world for use in the third world, thus breaking their dependency on the West. In order

Re:

[kabz]

The OLPC is capable of being charged from a human powered generator where mains power is not available. The OLPC has a screen readable in daylight that also consumes very little power. It is more like very capable eBook, with a keyboard and wireless, than a conventional laptop.

I think it's a fantastic idea, and the rantings of people who say it's lame, and that people need XP and Office, will be shown to be about as accurate as the people who said the personal computer was a waste of time.

I wonder the OLPC

Makes sense...

[Jugalator]

I mean, I believe Windows still has a place in various environments where it's hard to find competing well-tried products, but if there's some environment I can't understand why one would use it, it's in aids for development nations. They don't need the hottest nVidia drivers for gaming, they don't need advanced CAD applications for construction, they just need the standard stuff, that many Linux distros today offers perfectly fine. They can even get full office suites, and then I think they're starting to

I hate Windows as much as the next person...

[PinkyDead]

...but that lack of Windows on the OLPC could be an issue.

Mainly because your average Joe Schmo is absolutely convinced that Windows is a program for writing letters on, or something equally stupid. The lack of interoperability with the rest of the world (however stupid the rest of the world is) puts people at a serious disadvantage.

For instance, we all know that ODT is the superior document format, but try giving one to someone (in the Joe Schmo category) who only uses Word. They look at you as if you had two heads. Same thing is actually quite common for the pdf format (I'm telling you, it happens).

The OLPCs are not going to people who are sitting on the side of a ditch oblivious of the wider IT world. They will have heard of Windows, and they will want to know why they are getting this 'second-rate' linux thingy. When they do business they will do it with some idiot who is blissfully unaware of anything outside of Office.

I wouldn't for one second suggest that Windows should be shipped with the OLPC. But there are perception issues that must be dealt with.

I'm reminded of the film 'The Shipping News' - when asked what kind of computer he wants, Quoyle says 'an IBM'. He didn't know whether it was any good or not, he just knew that it was the 'right' answer. And unfortunately, at the moment 'Microsoft' is the 'right' answer.

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[DragonWriter]

The OLPCs are not going to people who are sitting on the side of a ditch oblivious of the wider IT world. They will have heard of Windows, and they will want to know why they are getting this 'second-rate' linux thingy.

IIRC, the Windows monopoly is a lot less strong in the market for "real" computers in places like Brazil, a major OLPC launch area, and the perception of Linux as "second rate" is considerably less than in the US. Further, the demonstrations have been well received by students, parents, and e

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[pembo13]

What is the people receiving these machines don't have this ridiculous bias towards Windows?

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[TeknoHog]

...but that lack of Windows on the OLPC could be an issue.

Mainly because your average Joe Schmo is absolutely convinced that Windows is a program for writing letters on, or something equally stupid. The lack of interoperability with the rest of the world (however stupid the rest of the world is) puts people at a serious disadvantage.

The OLPC is an educational tool, not a stupidity maintenance tool.

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[Vexorian]

Looking the problem the opposite way, this would help these countries to get away of these totally inconvenient pseudo standards, with more people using ODF this average joe will have to react. Either way .doc / .xls ./ppt compat in OOo is doing "well enough" I don't think OLPC is supposed to be a computer for corporate Dilberts that will need every single feature to be correctly implemented.

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[grcumb]

The OLPCs are not going to people who are sitting on the side of a ditch oblivious of the wider IT world. They will have heard of Windows, and they will want to know why they are getting this 'second-rate' linux thingy.

That's perfectly untrue.

I've set up several computer centres in developing countries, and the one I'm currently living in will be involved in an OLPC pilot project shortly. I can tell you with 100% confidence that the people who are being targeted by OLPC don't give a hoot whether they're

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[Chandon Seldon]

Why not just pick up a used laptop from a reliable seller on Ebay and drop Ubuntu on it?

Quick search came up with http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Thinkpad-T23-P3-1-26GHz-P I II-Laptop-Notebook-1-26_W0QQitemZ320108259669QQihZ 011QQcategoryZ140083QQcmdZViewItem [ebay.com], I'm sure there are tons of similar items, and a 1000 mhz+ PIII is definitely faster than the AMD Geode in the XO.

Re:Good to know

[Bob54321]

It is interesting to see that choice is good, unless someone may have the choice to install software from Microsoft. I know when I get a new computer, I like having the choice to run windows.

Given who the laptops are going to, my guess is that Microsoft would have to give away any version of windows that actually ran on the computer. It is not as if the owners a going to have spare money lying around to buy a license.

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[TheRaven64]

Microsoft offered at the start to provide free-beer (mmm, free beer) licenses for Windows to the project. In the volumes these are expected to be manufactured, they will be a sizeable percentage (not a majority, but a noticeable proportion) of the total installed base in the next few years, and they would really like to keep hold of that. The decision was made that the entire project should be open.

One of the aims of the project is that local industries in developing countries will be able to start mak

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[at_slashdot]

It's also very tricky for Microsoft, Vista monster would not run on that laptop while XP will cease to be "manufactured" at the end of this year.... what Windows do they intend to use? CE?

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[nanosquid]

It is interesting to see that choice is good, unless someone may have the choice to install software from Microsoft.

Sometimes, offering choice is good, sometimes offering choice is bad. For example, offering kids the choice of chocolate or crack is a bad choice, and you don't want people offering them that choice. In the same way, we don't want people offering kids the choice between open source software and an overpriced product from a convicted monopolist.

And for a given set of choices, some of the choi

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[strikethree]

Nobody was arguing that choice is not good. They were arguing that raising the price significantly to offer the other choice (MS Windows in this case) was not good since the value of the laptop is in its incredibly low price. By adding choice (price), the laptop was effectively being taken away from the majority of people it was supposed to be for. Understand?

strike

They did release it.

[Grendel Drago]

It's called Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs [wikipedia.org]. Good luck scoring a copy, though.