David Pogue Takes On the Zune

necro81 writes "The NYTimes' widely read technology columnist, David Pogue, has devoted his weekly product review to Microsoft's Zune. He does an even-handed job of describing what Zune has over the iPod, as well as some product-related letdowns." From the article: "Competition is good and all. But what, exactly, is the point of the Zune? It seems like an awful lot of duplication — in a bigger, heavier form with fewer features — just to indulge Microsoft's 'we want some o' that' envy. Wireless sharing is the one big new idea — and if the public seems to respond, Apple could always add that to the iPod."

Not only is it not a better product....

...but it is made by Microsoft, who is not nearly as cool as Apple or even Sony etc when it comes to consumer electronics. I mean you can say a lot of other things about Microsoft being evil etc, but that aspect aside they just dont have the 'cool' image. So it seems to me that in order for the zune to have any meaninful impact it would have to be head and shoulders better than the ipod.

A bit of bias in the story

Unless one really knows what is what one would read this /. post and think a tech savy but otherwise neutral party is doing a review. But of course this ain't so. Of course had Zonk wrote it up as David Pogue, author of "Switching to the Mac: The Missing Manual, Tiger Edition" and numerous other Mac books, it just wouldn't have been much of a story now would it? It would have been seen as yet another of the "Mac zealot bashes Microsoft, prefers Apple; film at 11." story that seems to be becoming a regular staple around here.

Microsoft can't help it...

Until you experienced a blue screen of death while playing "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" [wikipedia.org], your life is utterly meaningless.

What's the damn point anyway?

Why doesn't MS just stick to what it does well: making a decent Office Suite and a less-than-decent Operating System?

I mean, aren't all the other money losing projects (hello Zune and Xbox) just financed by Office and OS anyway?

Seems like a waste of time and resources to me.

re: Not only is it not a better product....

So it seems to me that in order for the zune to have any meaninful impact it would have to be head and shoulders better than the ipod.

Or Dollars and Cents cheaper!

Re: Not Only is it not a better product...

but it is made by Microsoft, who is not nearly as cool as Apple or even Sony etc when it comes to consumer electronics.

This is probably why the multi-page Zune ad in the most recent issue of Rolling Stone makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of Microsoft.

How sad is it when you have to run away from your own established brand to try to sell something?

growth

Why doesn't MS just stick to what it does well: making a decent Office Suite and a less-than-decent Operating System?

Because of greedy shareholders. It's not enough for them to receive a nice dividend, they demand growth. Oh, and also it's contrary to Borg prinicples.

coolness factor

for this product to succeed it has to reach a coolness factor better than an ipod with 15yr olds. I don't see how a larger and uglier device is going to do it. I don't think MS has ever done that well with coolness (I'm not a gamer so I don't know how the xbox rates). MS is good at corporate marketing and deal making and the company name means something to those people. The MS brand is nerdy compared to Apple with is good at the marketing for this demographic. The last thing a 15yr wants to be is nerdy, except the ones reading /. of course, but coolness is a lost hope for those.

I won't switch

I had no intention of switching, but the review solidified things. I wouldn't have recommended the product to anyone (I'd say just get an iPod) and this only makes things worse.

Let's see what they've got to entice me away? I've got a large collection of music, but basically no DRMed AAC files so I would make an easy switch.

• There is a photo viewer... where you have to turn the thing on it's side to look at the photo
• There is wireless sharing... that automatically deletes it's self, limits playback to only three times, needs another Zune... Why not let me listen to ANYTHING AS MANY TIMES AS I WANT as long as I'm in range of that other person (say two people sitting on a bus)?
• It's bigger and heavier
• It can't be used as a hard drive (iPods have had that from day 1, so does EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON THE MARKET
• It doesn't work with WMP (a plus) but requires a second (and very similar program, a minus)
• Doesn't work with a Mac that I can see (that would kill it for me or any of the people I know switching to Macs for various reasons)
• It doesn't have a scroll-wheel.... the genius of the iPod. It LOOKS like it, but it's really just a D-pad hidden under some round plastic. That's just pure genius for you
• Some of the things (like putting a custom photo for a background) are neat but... no TV shows (don't have any, but I might), no movies (don't have any, but I might), no games (something I think was a great idea, even the bad solitare game)

Let's face it, it's pathetic if they think they are going ANYWHERE with this. As for the "We're selling it in 3x as many stores"... who cares? Everyone who matters sells iPods. Target, Wal*Mart, CompUSA, Apple, Microcenter, Frys, Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, Borders Books, and more. There are some I can't check (because I don't live near them) but I bet Meijers sells iPods. I've seen them in some odd places. They are everywhere. I think even those scam-on-poor-people places like Rent-A-Center probably sell 'em. They'll be more places for the Zune though? Let's see... who else would be a good partner for selling the Zune...

JoAnne Fabrics? PetsMart? I know I'm looking for an MP3 player that's not an iPod when I go into my local paint-ball gun store, but maybe that's just me.

No, wait, I don't go to paint-ball gun stores for consumer electronics.

About the only place I can think of is Radio Shack. I don't know if they sell iPods now but they are going down the tubes fast any way.

Microsoft has no advantages here

When Microsoft traditionally goes into a market, it brings out a less than stellar first version and incrementally improves it. It throws money at the problem until it is good enough for most people. Then they migrate toward it. In software, this strategy depends on branding, OS leverage, and most importantly a much weaker opponent several magnitudes. It worked with IE and MS Office.

But they are going to have problems with the Zune like they had with the Xbox. In the videogame market, they face a very rich opponent (Sony) and haven't been able to dominate because of that. They have their fair market share, but they bled enough money for that.

Now in the mp3 player market, they face a strong entrenched opponent Apple, who is rich enough and has the incentive to throw money/R&D at iPods as well. Apple also enjoys a very dominant position on top, similiar to MS in the OS market. It's not as stable because the lock-in isn't as bad, but it also means any features MS incorporates that are very good, short of killer, Apple can incorporate the same the next generation.

And I don't see any killer features on the Zune. Maybe next time, though I doubt it. Currently, MS is going to be in the 2ndary mp3 market I think, meaning it will have to split marketshare with players other than ipod. I mean, if I wanted an mp3 player other than iPod, I'd look to iRiver first. They incorporate the features I want (ogg, etcetera) at a lower price.

Can't be used as an external hard drive ... ?!

My iPod breakdown:
- 12 gigs music.
- 12 gigs movies and vPodCasts.
- 10 gigs data, for just three files.
iPod ... for when a thumb drive just ain't big enough.

Not being able to use the zune as a drive is the ultimate breakdown for me.
Figure: if they couldn't even get that one itsy bitsy featurette right ... how do you figure they fared with the basic, main features?

Zune points scam

79 zune points costs 99 cents. and you have to buy them in increments of $5. jeezus! this is so diaboilical on many levels. First, MS gets to hold your float for $4.01 after you buy the first song. That's a lot of interest to MS over time. And then after you buy 5 songs then what? MS gets to keep the extra nickel you can't spend. So really songs cost $1.00 not $0.99 cents. MS pockets 1% extra. Finally, the detachment of points from dollars measn two things. First it measn your brain hurts when you are spending funny money with strange conversion rates that make it hard to figure on the fly. And second it means they can charge different groups different prices or raise prices. For example, everyone who buys zune points now may be paying $1.00 per song but if you buy the points next week it's say $1.50 a song. Or maybe you get a zune points discount if you buy a new computer with MS OS.

it all seems so deliberately complicated and multi-tiered like all of MS products. That can be a good bussiness strategy but it's not a user-freindly strategy. I predict people will prefer their music priced in way they can figure and don't have to work the angles to get the best prices.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much...

Pogue doesn't compare Windows to the Mac... he compares the Zune to the IPod and the ITunes music store. He's comparing "Apples" to "Apple's". In fact, he doesn't mention the Mac anywhere in the article. I think you're projecting some bias of your own.

His disdain for Microsoft's digital music business model is obvious and, arguably, well deserved.

Every journalist has bias, just as every person has bias. But it seems to me Pogue was expressing real and serious flaws in the Zune and Microsoft's DRM model rather than simply going on a partisan Mac vs. Windows rant.

-S

Read Walter Mossberg's review

Walter Mossberg has a better review of the Zune: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB11630284839 3917854-wNNFl42I1SSNBP6dH5xF08kTRlQ_20071108.html [wsj.com]

Better in that he actually tested the Zune, measured its battery life (and found it to be 14% shorter than claimed), tested its WiFi sharing (and found it to not work as well as advertized), and actually used it.

The review is not all negative, and is worth reading.

Re: Microsoft can't help it...

Until you experienced a blue screen of death while playing "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", your life is utterly meaningless

Actually, I just learned from the article [nytimes.com] that all the Beatles albums on the Zune store are broken links or something, since Microsoft hasn't licensed them yet.

[ Parent [slashdot.org] ]

Buying a $.99 song costs $5.00

Boy, the marketing geniuses at Microsoft are really working overtime. Points can only be bought in $5.00 increments? What the hell? This isn't Costco for music - people are already used to two ideals - all you can eat subscriptions (which Zune offers) or a la carte purchases. If i hear one song I want to buy, I sure as hell am not going to go through a lengthy process and spend $5.00 to do so.

What a dumb move. Each Zune review I've read so far has been down on the player, but more importantly on Microsoft's "treat users like idiots" approach.

David Pogue - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/technology/09pog ue.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin [nytimes.com]
David Ewalt - http://blogs.forbes.com/digitaldownload/ [forbes.com]
Walt Mossberg - http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB11630284839 3917854-wNNFl42I1SSNBP6dH5xF08kTRlQ_20071108.html [wsj.com]

Wifi?! Bah!

Wifi brings a lot of baggage with me. Maybe Bonjour solves some of that, I dunno, but I think if they really wanted to do it right they'd add Bluetooth instead. That'd give them easy integration with their laptops and allow you to send a MP3 for use as a ringtone between the ipod and a cellphone with nothing else needed to make the two devices talk to each other. There's no effort involved at all.

Well maybe some effort... I'm not sure how your itunes-DRMed AAC file will play on your cellphone. Fortunately I don't have any of those to worry about.

Re: I won't switch

I bet Meijers sells iPods. I've seen them in some odd places.

The Meijers near my house sells them. I once bought one out of a vending machine at an airport in Atlanta, because I was about to fly out to the boonies and was getting nervous about whether I would have enough storage space for photos.

Which brings me to the main reason I won't switch: I always carry a couple of iPods when I'm shooting long assignments so I can use them to store photos. Clamp on a readily available CF card reader and they make excellent portable hard drives that just happen to play music. If a Zune won't work as a generic HD or keep up with iPod's HD size I can't use it.

The coolness factor is also useful in my position, iPods are recognized by the most unlikely people in the most unlikely places and can get you out of difficult situations. Like when the KLA though I was on the wrong side and wanted to detain me. Lets see a Zune do that.

Re: Pod connector in cars?

Cars don't come with 'IPod connectors'

Sure they do.

My car (truck actually) has a connector and I can control my iPod from my steering wheel, something that can't be via with an audio input jack. There are also several aftermarket solutions that work over CAN-BUS and the like, that allow control of the player via factory radio, as an AUX device.

Re: iPod Connectors in Cars

Replying to:http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=20 5781&cid=16788639

Are you kidding? Most cars that advertise "iPod" connectivity do, in fact have a dock connector and integrated head unit that can used to control the iPod, display track names, and recharge the unit while it is sequestered in a cooled glovebox (preserving the battery's long-term life) or armrest.

It's not like this is a new thing...http://www.apple.com/ipod/carintegration.h tml

Pogue's Podcast on the Zune is much better....

It's not just him repeating the column, but provides a lot off context. 11:00, available here:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/ viewPodcast?id=155860524 [apple.com]

You have entered an uncatalogued filing cabnet

"How sad is it when you have to run away from your own established brand to try to sell something"

This is why clothes you buy from walmart do not say "walmart brand" on them. They come up with cute little brands.

What's so hard to "get" about a KNOB?

"What looks like an iPod scroll wheel, though, is a fakeout. It doesn't turn, and it's not touch-sensitive. Instead, it's just four buttons hidden under the compass points of a plastic ring. Scrolling accelerates as you press the top or bottom button, but the iPod's wheel is much more efficient."

What is it that's so hard to "get" about a frickin' _knob?_

There are just some situations where a button doesn't hack it. No matter how many cents it saves in manufacturing costs.

The original-equipment radio on my last car had a rotating knob as a volume control. I didn't think anything of it until I replaced it with an aftermarket radio that didn't. Like the Zune, it, too, had an oh-so-clever sounds-good-on-paper kludge: if you pressed the + button it would increment in steps of 4 units, and if you then pressed the - button within a short time interval it would decrement in steps of 1 unit. On paper, I would never have believed what a misery this substitute for a volume control knob would be. I don't think I ever realized just how often I reach to make a microadjustment in volume (different levels of traffic noise, different stations, different tracks in a classical album). Not only was the system clumsy, but of course one button feels just like another button... unless you spend some money on making them feel different.

In the 1960s I remember a little paper tape program in the bin above the PDP-1 at MIT labelled "Minsky Knob." It looked promising, because Marvin Minsky was the author of a nice little display hack called Minskytron, which... well, never mind. "Minsky Knob" was his attempt to get knob-like control using only keyboard keys. I believe striking one key caused a spot of light on the CRT to accelerate uniformly to the right, and a second press would stop it dead, while alternative presses of another key would accelerate it to uniformly to the left and stop it dead.

When the right tool for the job is knob, nobody's ever found a way to do it with a button. Minsky Knob was all but unusable in the 1960s. He couldn't figure it out then, and nobody else has been able to figure it out since.

Re:Not only is it not a better product....

One of the things that I wonder about most in today's tech market is the utter inability of _any_ competitor to design a line of mp3 players that come even close to the Apple iPods in terms of design, price, usability, haptics, brand recognition, packaging, availability and "ecosystem". They may come close in one aspect or the other, or even trump Apple in certain areas such as price, but I couldn't name a single player I'd choose over any one in the iPod line if I wanted to buy one. Every so-called "iPod killer" I've looked at was either ugly, had an user interface designed for martians by martians, lousy battery life, a bad case of "all-your-music-are-belong-to-us" DRM, or cost about the same as an equivalent iPod. The Zune, by the way, is no exception to this - I wouldn't buy this ugly-looking contraption at any price.

This summer, I bought a friend whom I charitably describe as "not a computer genius" a white 1 GB Nano for her birthday, and she was soon ripping CDs with iTunes and downloading songs from the Apple store without my help. She's really proud of it and showed it to all her friends - probably the first piece of computer related tech she owned that didn't make her feel stupid and out-of-it.

By the way, I'm not one of those Apple fanboys and don't even own a separate mp3 player, a 2 GB SD card in my cellphone does it for me. No need to lug around yet another gadget, nursing its battery and keeping it from getting broken or stolen.

Who wrote the Zune Web site text??

Did anyone take a look at the web site for the Zune Store? Someone seemed to be trying just a little too hard to sound hip, and it comes off sounding hilarious. For example, from http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/zunetozuneshari ng.htm [zune.net]

"Mama always said to share. Now you have an opportunity to do it with music and photos. With wireless Zune to Zune sharing you can send your favorite tracks and photos to friends.[1]

Picture this: You're walking down the street. Or you're in a room with a bunch of friends. Or at a concert. Or at the airport. Or on the bus (you get the picture) and then you whip out your Zune and see all these other Zune devices around that you can choose from. Zap! You're connected to your best friend and send the new song your band recorded in the garage last weekend. Another friend gets the hilarious podcast your kid brother made at school, plus that song you just downloaded from the Zune Marketplace and can't get out of your head. And hey, lookee here, your friend wants to send you something that you might like and buy, too."

you gotta love the cool talk complete with a foot note to remind you about the DRM on the sharing