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Ext4 Filesystem Enters Experimental Kernel Tree

Posted by timothy on Fri Oct 13, 2006 08:08 AM
An anonymous reader writes "Looks like the next version of the venerable Linux 'ext' filesystem is just around the corner. Andrew Morton has added an early version of ext4 to his 2.6.19-rc1-mm1 tree, enabling Linux to support storage volumes up to 1020 petabytes in size, and to write files in 'extents,' or contiguous, reserved areas. According to an article at Linux-Watch, ext4 will be ready for production use within six to nine months, if all goes well. On the downside, the new ext4 filesystem will offer only limited backward compatibility with ext3-aware Linux kernels."
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  • Reiser4 (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 13 2006, @08:10AM (#16421471)
    Unfortunately, this will just murder Reiser4.
        • Re:Reiser4 (Score:5, Insightful)

          by udippel (562132) on Friday October 13 2006, @12:00PM (#16424367)
          I will, as soon as I can practically do so, upgrade my OS and its file system to something, ext4 or otherwise, that is not associated with a suspected murderer.

          As much as I agree with you questioning the many 'funny' ACs, I can't support this statement. One day you, yes, you, might also become a suspect. And then, suddenly, you would see the world with different eyes. Especially, when you're found innocent and you also find that your friends have deleted all memories of you since they don't want to be associated with you; as suspect.

          I am sure many of us would feel similar once the investigation is over and Hans eventually found guilty. But as civilised people, we better wait. How old are you ? Have you never ever been suspected of something ?

  • by BenBenBen (249969) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:17AM (#16421505)
    1 Exabyte!

    Not to be confused with Excitebike, which is something entirely different.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Insightful? Yes. Informative? Certainly not. Finally the Funny mod hits (what took so long?) This is the funniest thing I've read on Slashdot in ages, on so many levels.

      On second thought, maybe it is Informative, since I was not previously aware you could cram that many puns into so few words.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          I can't believe I'm answering this, but...
          • Excitebike sounds like exabyte
          • 1020 petabytes != 1 exabyte
          • 1 exbibyte != 1 exabyte
          • In terms of scale, 1 exbibyte and 1 exabyte are completely different, the difference in this kind of mistake could equal several hundred thousand copies of Wikipedia, as opposed to confusing KiB/KB or MiB/MB, which are different, but not earth-vs-sun different.
          • The post was moderated Insightful and then Informative before it was modded Funny
          • I'm counting the excellent sig too

          That's 6, and

  • fsck (Score:5, Funny)

    by tttonyyy (726776) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:19AM (#16421537) Homepage Journal
    EXT4-fs warning (device sdb1): ext4_journal_start_sb: Detected tasteless ReiserFS jokes - hahahaha!
  • performance (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bioglaze (767105) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:24AM (#16421579) Homepage Journal
    How does ext4 perform when compared to, say, reiserfs 3.6 or 4? What new features there are?
  • by Tribbin (565963) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:25AM (#16421611) Homepage
    My question is why they don't mention why it is better to use ext4 then XFS.

    XFS can do 9 exabytes (exabyte = 1024 petabytes).

    They mention that ext4 is not faster than other filesystems.

    Ofcourse people can do whatever they want, but why not spend their time making XFS easily resizable for example?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Ofcourse people can do whatever they want, but why not spend their time making XFS easily resizable for example?

      I would also appreciate block journaling for XFS.
    • My question is why they don't mention why it is better to use ext4 then XFS.

      Simple: ext4 is a backwards compatible, evolutionary change from ext3, while XFS is a different file system and codebase. XFS doesn't offer sufficient advantages to overcome that built-in advantage of ext4 (after all, neither XFS nor ReiserFS managed to succeed even against ext3).
  • Wow (Score:3, Funny)

    by knipknap (769880) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:33AM (#16421683) Homepage
    enabling Linux to support storage volumes up to 1020 petabytes in size

    Now, is there anybody who still believes that porn does not drive innovation?
  • And how... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by porkchop_d_clown (39923) <porkchop_d_clownNO@SPAMmac.com> on Friday October 13 2006, @08:42AM (#16421755) Homepage
    Will we back all this data up?

    I'm honestly more interested in someone coming up with cheap, long term archival storage. Hard disks have gone so far past our ability to archive information it's beyond comprehension.
  • to no longer use ReiserFS [wordpress.com] as its default FS (orig. reported on OSNews.com [osnews.com]...don't think I've seen it here yet). I think this came out before the whole Hans Reiser affair, BTW.

    SuSE contrasted the ease of upgrading ReiserFS and ExtFS versions:

    ReiserFS v3 is a dead end. Hans has been pushing reiser4 for years now and declared Reiser3 in maintenance mode. Any changes that arent bug fixes are met with violent resistance. Reiser4 is not an incremental update and requires a reformat, which is unreasonable for most people.... Ext3 has a clear upgrade path. There is quite a bit of interest in the community in improving ext3, and ext4 is already under development. Like the upgrade path from ext2 to ext3, the path to ext4 is clearly defined. Existing file systems can be updated easily, and new files will be able to take advantage of the new features.
  • Other Reiser issues aside, the SuSE folks at Novell are looking to leave [linux.com] the nearly unsupported reiserfs3 (in maintenance support, which isn't enough for them) and move to ext3 as their default FS. Why? They feel ext3 is a lot more mature & better/wider supported then reiserfs4, is an easier migration, and appreciate that there is a solid roadmap from ext3 to ext4.

    Of course this would also be the week that (coincidentally) Andrew Morton gives reiserfs4 the green light [apcstart.com] for eventual mainline kernel inclusion.

  • So funny (Score:3, Informative)

    by augustz (18082) on Friday October 13 2006, @12:40PM (#16425125) Homepage
    The article says "On the downside, the new ext4 filesystem will offer only limited backward compatibility with ext3-aware Linux kernels."

    Ext4 is going to be the MOST compatible with Ext3, relative to ANY other option out there.

    Upgrading to Ext4 is NOT going to involve a dump and restore from Ext3, likely a tunefs -j or similar command, just as the ext2 -> ext3 migration worked. Ext4 will be able to mount ext3.

    If older versions of software could use the new format, you wouldn't need the new format. Yes, upgrading to Ext4 means your 120 petabyte raid array will not be compatible with your old "ext3 aware kernel". But it is PRECISELY because such an array is not possible under ext3 that ext4 is going to be introduced.

    And does this submitter think other fancy new filesystems magically work on old kernels? Of course not. Does the submitter know if ext4 will be backported and made available to older releases? It doesn't look like they gave that much thought either.

    Please read this [lkml.org] for a more detailed description of what is happening.

    Slashdot's always good for a smile.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      The article says "On the downside, the new ext4 filesystem will offer only limited backward compatibility with ext3-aware Linux kernels."

      Well if you had a clue, you would know that this is in reference to the fact that you can mount a ext3 file system as ext2 from a kernel that doesn't have support for ext3. It just doesn't journal. They were simply stating that this rather useful feature that made ext2->ext3 migration so painless will likely not be as simple in ext3->ext4 migration.

      With that in m

    • Re:1020 Petabytes? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Angstroem (692547) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:20AM (#16421541)
      Oh, please.

      By now you don't even now what to do with 1024PB. Just as we couldn't imagine filling a 250GB harddrive 15 years ago when 500MB were considered huge.

      What will happen? We store our digital photos in raw format, not JPEG. We store our songs in raw format, not artificially crippled. We will store high-definition video, possibly even in raw format, not MPEG4 or the likes.

      And, woosh, 1024PB will be nothing leaving us wondering how we could ever survive with a measly 250GB drive -- just as we ask ourselves today how life was with nothing but 170kB disk drives.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        And, woosh, 1024PB will be nothing leaving us wondering how we could ever survive with a measly 250GB drive -- just as we ask ourselves today how life was with nothing but 170kB disk drives.

        I'm not convinced by this myself. I do however see a need for super computers who need to work with filesystems spanning perhaps hundreds of disks. As for the desktop user, even if they did store their files in raw format, I doubt they'd use more than a few 10's of terabytes at the most.

        • Re:1020 Petabytes? (Score:4, Informative)

          by HerrEkberg (971000) on Friday October 13 2006, @08:54AM (#16421821) Homepage
          Well, that depends on what your expectations for the future are. I don't think it is impossible that demands on multimedia will reach high enough sometime. Let us as an example consider a movie file from the Future (tm). Given better and bigger screens (perhaps covering whole walls) a frame dimension of 3000 x 2000 pixels is not inconceivable. Each pixel might consist of three RGB values of 16 bits each. Such a movie, if two hours long and running with 25 frames / second, would require about 6.5 TB in raw format.

          framedimensions = 3000 x 2000
          framebytes = framedimensions x 6
          moviebytes = framebytes x 25 x 60 x 120

          moviebytes / 10^12 ~= 6.5
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            You forgot the 16 channels of 192KHz 32-bit audio you need to. That's 84GiB on it's own!!! :-)

            Tom
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        This is exactly how I'm filling up my space. I got a new computer with a 160 GB drive, thinking it would be "enough". Started storing all my CDs in FLAC, and I'm currently transfering all hte movies I downloaded in AVI to DVD so I can watch them easily on my home theatre. Once you start working with video and sound that isn't compressed to nothing, you start to realize just how fast you can use up all that space. If my camera did RAW i'd probably use that to store my photos. I usually save any edits I d
      • Re:1020 Petabytes? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Eivind (15695) <eivindorama@gmail.com> on Friday October 13 2006, @09:26AM (#16422185) Homepage
        Actually, there's natural limits to that kind of storage.

        The limits are set by our senses, more concretely, our ears and our eyes.

        Our ears are only capable of hearing up to about 20Khz (less than that for most people) and 16-bit samplings are enough that most people cannot hear the difference with anything more. Thus CD-quality is, if not perfect, then good enough that further improvements are ignorable for most people. CD-quality losslessly-compressed music is around 300MB/hour.

        In a year, there's 8760 hours, so you'd need on the order of 2.5 TB to store a year worth of around-the-clock never-repeateing losslessly-compressed music. If computers keep getting replaced at the current rate, this means you'll never need more than about 10TB to store sound. This assumes you don't store more than you listen to, if you choose to for example store all music ever produced for convenience, despite never listening to more than a tiny fraction of it, then this requirement goes up by a couple of orders of magnitude. Still, there's good reason to suppose that 10TB will suffice for most peoples sound-storage needs. (even if you wanted to store all the sound you've *ever* heard in your life, including traffic at nigth, that'd still only be 200TB or so)

        The real killer is video. We can take in a *lot* more data with our eyes. 10GB/hour is in the ballpark of what you'd need for the sort of quality a modern cinema can deliver. (and there's no particular reason we couldn't go higher.) That works out to 100TB/year, more or less. A lifetime of high-quality video is thus on the order of 10PB.

        In short, it is unlikely that an individual (or family) will be able to fill a 1000PB disc with sound and video-recordings. Infact it's unlikely they'll be able to fill it with anything, if that anything is to be consumed only trough their 2 eyes and 2 ears.

        That doesn't mean it won't happen. Only that it'll be filled with something more. Once we fire up the holodecks all bets are off. I don't even want to try to estimate the bandwith needed for that kind of immersive experience.

        • it's unlikely they'll be able to fill it with anything

          People always used to ask me if I had the internet at home. Maybe when I can get my hands on a 1020 PB hard drive, I will be able to download it all for local access... :-)
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Yes, there is a problem.

          First of all, disk drives are advancing faster than tapes.

          But the problem is worse than that. Different aspects of disk drives are advancing at different rates. Capacity is increasing faster than interface speed is increasing faster than access speed is increasing faster than block reliability.

          Consider an old 500MB drive from the mid-90s; it takes maybe a couple hours to read every block on the drive, and odds are that you won't have bad blocks before the disk dies entirely.

          The new