Virgin Atlantic Bans Dell, Apple Laptops

TechFreep writes, "Amid a slew of incidents involving exploding Sony batteries, Virgin Atlantic announced that it won't allow passengers to use batteries in any Apple or Dell laptops on flights. The announcement, posted on Virgin's website, said that passengers may carry on the laptop itself, but batteries must be properly wrapped and stowed away in carry-on for the duration of the flight. However, the airline provided no details as to what proper wrapping entails. For those who wish to use a laptop while on the plane, Virgin plans to provide power adapters on flights where outlets are available." Will Virgin allow on board exploding Sony batteries in IBM ThinkPads?

Seat power outlets

[BWJones (18351)]

Virgin plans to provide power adapters on flights where outlets are available."

Well, this is the problem with most flights, particularly those that last longer than 3 or 4 hours. Specifically, there are simply not enough power outlets in the seats. So, if the airlines want to ban laptop batteries, and they want to maintain business, how about installing more power outlets? Its sad, but a classic case of airline security taking care of the problem after the problem has been identified and dealt with rather than being proactive in their plans. What this sort of behavior is doing, along with all of the other lame security procedures like taking off belts, shoes and sandals is simply making airline travel more onerous.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have to try and work on a flight after security delays of sometimes hours have meant getting on board with a laptop battery that is drained only to find out there is no power port on board the flight. Even worse, on several Delta flights where they were *supposed* to have power outlets in the seats, they have been non-functional.

Re:

[krunk4ever (856261)]

Um... If there are power outlets, just bring along a surge protector and guess what, now you can share! I don't know how much power each outlet can output, but I'm more than certain it can do more than 1 laptop per outlet.

Put this in the window

[linzeal (197905)]

At that height I bet the efficiency on a solar charger [amazon.com] would be enough to charge a spare battery, you can also ask the airline if you can mount it on the outside of the plane like the RVers do. I'm sure pilots from the south will understand.

Re:

[Brandybuck (704397)]

Bring a book! You can fit four to six good paperback books in the space taken up by a laptop.

Re:

[rynthetyn (618982)]

Heck, I flew all the way to India, didn't get let off the plane for 18 hours (security in London was extra tight because it was right after the subway bombings so they wouldn't let us off during the refueling stop), and I had nothing but a book and an old portable CD player to keep me entertained. Wasn't the most pleasant plane trip, but I survived, and not only that, came home smarter because I ran out of books in the middle of the trip and found A Brief History of Time in a bookstore (it made surprisingl

Outrageous.

[by Anonymous Coward]

Dell I can understand. However there have been no reported cases of Apple laptops causing any risk to an airplane. I hereby announce a boycott of Virgin Atlantic air lines until this idiotic policy is reversed and Virgin gets back on the cluetrain.

If action is not taken within 24 hours I may have to start an Internet petition to augment my activist efforts here so described.

Re:Outrageous.

[Suddenly_Dead (656421)]

There are no cases of Dell laptops causing risks to airplanes either, are there? Both varieties of laptops have certain models which use exploding Sony batteries, which is the heart of the issue. Why are the Apple laptops different in this circumstance? Or are you just on the Dell-bashing and/or Apple-loving bandwagon(s)?

OH GOD NO

[bunions (970377)]

Not an Internet Petition!! I mean, sure, they're terribly evil people, but let's not get crazy and do things we'll regret down the line. I'm sure there's less extreme ways to get your point across.

Re:

[devilspgd (652955)]

How often do you fly on Virgin? Do you have any status there (awarded due to mileage?) If not, do you think they'll care?

As far as the internet petition, those tend to be worth the paper they're printed on, so I'm sure the airline will care there too.

Meh.

[eosp (885380)]

Closing the barn door after the horse is long gone.

Uninformed management

[by Anonymous Coward]

This is worse. The batteries do not have to be in the computer to have this issue. It is better to have them in the plane where people are, so the possible fire could be put out. If a battery explodes in the cargo area where nobody is there to put it out, the outcome could be far more tragic! They should have done their research prior to mandating this change...

(Unless their "proper packaging" includes automatic sprinkler systems)

One Jet's already burned.

[DingerX (847589)]

Hold fire suppression systems are not that I know mandatory, and if they were, it is questionable whether they'd be effective on a Li-Ion fire. There's a discussion about just this stuff going on at the NTSB right now, since laptop batteries are strongly suspected in a recent hull-loss. From the July 12-13 hearing [ntsb.gov] about the UPS DC-8 that burned right after landing back in February. They found plenty of laptop batteries in the hold, most of them crisped. Cause has not been assigned yet, but

2. Design, Testing, and Failure Modes of Lithium Batteries.

* Testimony about lithium batteries will include discussions of their benefits and their hazards, as well as their safety features and failure histories.

3. Operations and Regulations concerning Lithium Batteries.

* Discussion under this topic will focus on the requirements involving air transportation of lithium batteries--including differences in these requirements between passenger and cargo aircraft--and ways in which the hazards associated with lithium batteries can be minimized and finally,

4. Aircraft Fire Detection and Suppression Systems and Regulations

* The Safety Board has issued recommendations in the past for incorporation of detection and suppression systems on commercial aircraft. Discussion under this topic will include a review of technology and regulations of these systems, difficulties and challenges that these systems may bring, and differences in these areas as they pertain to both passenger and cargo aircraft.

At that meeting, they noted a case in December, in Chicago:

Several lithium battery incidents have occurred in recent years, including a lithium-ion battery fire that occurred less than two months ago on an airplane in Chicago. Flight attendants used extinguishers on an overhead bag that was smoking. The bag was removed from the airplane and placed on the ramp, where it then caught fire. The fire apparently started from a spare laptop battery being carried in the bag.

In these cases, the batteries were not on, nor even in computers. The things are dangerous.

Shouldn't be a problem for apples

[macadamia_harold (947445)]

Amid a slew of incidents involving exploding Sony batteries, Virgin Atlantic announced that it won't allow passengers to use batteries in any Apple or Dell laptops on flights.

That shouldn't be a problem for people with Apple machines. I hear those are capable of running solely on one's own sense of self-superiority.

Why not ban *all* batteries?

[Bones3D_mac (324952)]

Why discriminate by brand and/or type of hardware being used? Any battery can be rigged to explode into flame simply by creating a short circuit. I learned this the hard way several years ago after sticking a coin into a AA battery port on one of those electronic kits. The coin super heated and starting making small flames near the batteries as the current flowed directly from the batteries and back without a load.

Pants on Fire

[cyberformer (257332)]

I used to keep spare AA batteries in my pockets, alongside coins and keys. I learned a very painful lesson not to do that anymore.

Re:

[Doppler00 (534739)]

Actually, pretty much any lithium-ion battery is extremely dangerious and flammable under the right conditions. The only thing preventing most batteries from bursting into flames is a tiny IC that controls the charge/discharge current of the battery. I've seen a video where your standard lithium-ion battery is punctured and the battery instantly starts bursting into flames. A reaction with atmosphere is all that is needed.

Lead acid batteries on the other hand are even more dangerous, luckily, these are alre

Re:Why not ban *all* batteries?

[mkiwi (585287)]

In 2002 I went to a conference in San José California. It was a technology conference for young engeering students and had CEO's of many large companies (such as Intel) making speeches. We also toured Silicon Valley, got a chance to visit Apple, Cisco, etc. inside the buildings and we toured all the nearby Universities in the Bay Area, including Berkeley, UCSC, etc.

I had a special item wish me- an ultra powerful rechargable battery-powered flashlight. I had not perfected the design (I had not even tried to design a case) and I ended up using high capacity handset batteries from Radio Shack to power the thing. All in all, there were about 51,000mWH of power strapped to what was little more than a assembly to hold the lights and a separate double-sided copper pcb that all the anode and cathode terminals were connected to.

The thing worked great, it was incredibly bright (it used three high luminosity light bulbs), it just looked like a bomb. I mean, the little battery cells looked like mini sticks of dynamite ready to explode at any time.

Only problem was I did not consider airport baggage handlers in my design. They ended up cutting the sheathing of one of the positive wires with the copper clad PCB. Of course, it had to be in the negative terminal, which burned a huge hole in my polyester bag, burned through two pairs of shorts, and melted a toothpaste tube, all tucked away inside the cargo cabin of the plane.

I was not pleased to find out that my great invention had been so easily destroyed (for heaven's sake it was the ultimate rechargeable flashlight!). My uncle found out about the incident and gave me a fire extinguisher rated for electric fires for Christmas. T.t (crying face)

Looking back, how the hell did they even allow that device on the plane? That could have seriously damaged someone's luggage (besides mine) and filled the cabin with toxic smoke, or worse yet exploded inside the cargo cabin, all 51Wh of it all. Banning ALL Apple and ALL Dell batteries, not just those made by Sony, is shortsighted and likely a decision made by a very uninformed person. My battery was more a risk to the plane then any of the Sony batteries and they inspected it and let me on. What gives?

Wow

[joel8x (324102)]

So, even if you are using a 3rd party battery or have one of the replaced ones, you know they won't let you use it anyway. That's one less airline I will be using. Stupid. Just stupid.

Why not ban all muslims from airplanes, since a few muslims hijacked some airplanes? IT'S THE SAME THOUGHT PROCESS. You think the muslims are pissed about the pope right now? Wait 'till you piss off some Apple fanatics - then you will be in a living hell.

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[value_added (719364)]

Why not ban all muslims from airplanes, since a few muslims hijacked some airplanes? IT'S THE SAME THOUGHT PROCESS. You think the muslims are pissed about the pope right now? Wait 'till you piss off some Apple fanatics - then you will be in a living hell.

Even worse - Muslim Mac users!

The DHS should add that category to their profile Top Ten List, right above Weird Looking Guys with Beards.

Re:

[Brandybuck (704397)]

Apple fanatics don't firebomb Anglican churches just because a Roman Catholic suggested they refrain from violence.

Ugly hack

[MoogMan (442253)]

/me tapes over the DELL sticker

Welly welly well!

[aarku (151823)]

As an iBook user, I hereby ban my use of Virgin Atlantic!

85 Watt MacBook Pro Power Supplies

[mhocker (607466)]

Oh, and how are us MacBook Pro users going to use the "inflight power" with our monster 85 watt power supplies that don't work on ANY airline?

No toothpaste, no pocket knives, now no laptop. I'm really getting sick of the air travel nazis. It's making the "won't you think of the children" bunch look sane.

No explosions, please.

[by Anonymous Coward]

Will Virgin allow on board exploding Sony batteries in IBM ThinkPads?

Any battery that is currently exploding is probably not allowed, regardless of make.

It IS a real fire hazard

[Secrity (742221)]

It is not really a security issue but it is a real fire hazard problem. Dell batteries have a documented history (some with pictures or videos) of bursting into flames, and I would not want to be on an airplane at 40,000 feet when somebody's Dell bursts into flame. I know that the recall is only for certain models but it would be too onerous for the flightcrew to sort out which Dells or Apples could become airborn flambeaus.

http://wcco.com/consumer/local_story_148150249.htm l [wcco.com]
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets [gizmodo.com]