Teen Creates Device to Track Speeding

An anonymous reader writes "A teen in Massachusetts has created a device that he hopes will help prevent traffic fatalities among teenagers. The unit plugs into a car and uses GPS to track and report on speeding — but only while the car exceeds a limit set by parents, so as to minimize invasion of the teen's privacy."

Untill...

[Spad]

Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go.

Re:Untill...

[D-Cypell]

This is exactly what I would do. Get job, buy and maintain own car, earn privacy. Besides, there is a huge difference between knowing where your car (and child) is and evesdropping on their conversations etc.

Even at the age of 25 I am starting to think that the world we be better off if children had a few less freedoms. I probably would have felt different 10 years ago however :).

You learn through mistakes

[brunes69]

People who coddle their children have them grow into misfits, because they don't know how to act in the real world. On the other hand, people who let their kids run wild have them grow to be criminals and outcasts, because the kids grow witht he notion that it doesn't matter what they do since no one cars.

You should raise a child with plenty of freedom, but make sure the child knows they will be held responsible for their own mistakes. I was given my own car when I was 16 - but I had to pay my own insurance. And I knew if I trashed the thing, or got tickets so my insurance would go up, etc - that Mommy and Daddy would *not* be bailing me out.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[D-Cypell]

I couldn't agree more. However, I think it is very important to let the reins out slowly. The jump from getting everywhere on foot (or bicycle) to driving is a huge one in terms of responsibility and freedom. This device seems to be a good way to break up this huge jump by saying, "Yes you can now spread your wings a little, but we will be checking exactly where you are spreading them until you earn the right to take the next step. I wouldn't class this as 'coddling' but more as demonstrating that certain rights have to be earned. I have known several people who killed themselves on the road within a year of getting their driving license and many more who (in my opinion) are lucky to be alive. I was often laughed at for driving at reasonable speed and following basic road rules but if my circle were going anywhere and there were a few cars to travelling in... mine was always full :).

Managing the jumps in freedom is one of the biggest parental responsibilities. This is clearly demonstrated by all the students who gain their first feeling of independance when they go to university and decide that the best thing to do would be to drink themselves to death.

Re:

[plague3106]

You ignore the fact that you are instilling a sense of distrust in your kid. You don't really trust them, and thus they will not trust you. They'll also likely have problems trusting everyone, since if your own parents can't learn to trust you, how can you possibly trust anyone else?

If by the age of 16 you still can't trust your kid, I think you have serious problems in your relationship with them.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[GeckoX]

There's trust, and there's trust.

Trust your 16 year old to be good, honest etc etc.

Don't trust your 16 year old to make the right decision the first time they're at a friends house, have a couple drinks with the older brother, and have their shiney new car you bought them sitting outside.

Trust must be earned, and is not a blanket that covers everything all in one go.

Oblig. Ronald Reagan quote

[The_REAL_DZA]

"Trust, but verify."

Re:

[GooberToo]

Statistically, the noob is far more risky... Did you really have to be told that?

Here's the facts:
Females are the absoluete worst drivers, by far. They have more accidents than males. Having said that, male drivers drive much more aggressively than female drivers. So when a male driver is involved in an accident, it tends cost a lot more and the injurry and death rate tends to be much, much higher. Likewise, statistically, teenage drivers are second ONLY to elderly, post retirement age, in their rate o

Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

I ask my son to see his report card, I don't take his word for it. If he's supposed to be home at midnight, I stay up until he gets home, I don't take his word for it. I make him keep his bedroom door open when he has his girlfriend over to "do homework."

I trust my son. I let him borrow my car. I trust him to watch his sister. I trust him to stay at home overnight by himself on occassion.

But if you think a 16 year old won't lie through his teeth to get out of trouble, you're insane. There is no question about this.

Your comments suggest to me that you're either a child yourself, or you've never raised a child yourself. Nothing personal, but if you "trust" your teenager to act like a responsible adult, you're probably making a mistake. There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17. If you quit parenting at 16 because you think you've done a good enough job so far, you're just begging for trouble.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[drunkennewfiemidget]

Bull. It depends on the kid. At 16, I had all the freedoms in the world. I went where I wanted, I did what I wanted, and I acted as I pleased. I had earned it, and my parents knew I would behave myself.

And I did.

My son is only 5 now, but if I think I can trust him to behave himself at 16, I'll give him the freedoms that comes with it.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[kalirion]

There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17.

Ah, the magical switch that flips when a kid turns 18, making him a responsible adult....

Re:

[gfxguy]

I agree that arbitrary ages are not the best way to decide when someone is an adult, when they can vote, when they can drink, when they are the age of consent...

However, at 18 a "child" in no longer the legal responsibility of the parents. But there is a flip that gets switched... it's the one that says "I'll go to jail, not juvi, if I do something wrong, " and the one that says "my parents are not legally responsible for me anymore."

The only problem is that parents have to let their kids know that. "I've

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[Disavian]

Preface: sorry if I'm a little harsh. This is meant in good faith, and is not intended to be a personal attack. I am attempting to describe issues I have strong beliefs on/in.

I ask my son to see his report card, I don't take his word for it.

A wise choice. Nothing keeps him from forging it, though.

If he's supposed to be home at midnight, I stay up until he gets home, I don't take his word for it.

Kinda creepy... midnight's pretty early, too. Seriously, extend the deadline until 1AM and see what happens. Nothing out of the ordinary, I bet. He's going to have to handle staying out late when he leaves home, you might as well teach him how to do it.

I make him keep his bedroom door open when he has his girlfriend over to "do homework."

That's just stupid. If you want to make a kid hate you, that's the way to do it. Give up on trying to keep him from having sex; he's going to have it one way or another. A parent promoting abstinance is like nailing jello to the wall. Instead, make sure he (they) has (have) ready access to contraception.

I trust my son. I let him borrow my car. I trust him to watch his sister. I trust him to stay at home overnight by himself on occassion. But if you think a 16 year old won't lie through his teeth to get out of trouble, you're insane. There is no question about this.

You'll trust him with someone else's life, but you won't trust him with his own? And when was the last time you saw someone telling "the truth" just because they were an "adult"? Your defense of your actions has nothing to do with the issue at hand; that is, is he mature enough to handle the responsibilities and freedoms of being an adult. Is he mature enough to use contraception, to do his homework, and to maintain his judgement in the face of peer pressure?

Those are skills you can't teach him; you have to let him learn for himself.

Your comments suggest to me that you're either a child yourself, or you've never raised a child yourself.

Have you ever heard of an "ad hominem" attack? It's called a logical fallacy for a reason.

Nothing personal, but if you "trust" your teenager to act like a responsible adult, you're probably making a mistake.

Trusting anyone is a mistake, but we have to if we want to live like normal people.

There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17.

Oh really? Tell me why. I honestly want to know why the lightswitch of maturity magically flips when a human has been on this rock for eighteen orbits around a small, yellow sun. Although it is tangental, I suppose you also support the drinking age of 21, and will say that is there for a reason. You would be correct-- it's there becuase federal government funds don't go to states that have drinking ages lower than that. Don't you remember how the drinking age was 18 in most states when you were a kid? If a state feels like standing up for VOTING CITIZENS against the US theocracy, they could. However, the kind of need the money more.

If you quit parenting at 16 because you think you've done a good enough job so far, you're just begging for trouble.

Yes. But the pussification of America's youth is complete; we don't let them grow up for themselves. That recent story about UGA students having coupons for booze passed out to them -- oh noes, alcohol! Grow the fark up.

In summary -- we don't let our kids "grow up" any more. We somehow got the idea that we have to "help" them, when what they really need is to be left alone, and possibly guided. This tool is a symptom of the disease that is parenting in America. If your child can't handle being alone in a room with a girl at 16, what makes you think he'll be any different at 18? Because his prefrontal cortex will be 18% larger? He may be busy with school and activities, but real maturity doesn't come from a textbook, and you know it.

Re:

[shaneh0]

From the tone of your posts, I'm guessing you're 20-25 and don't have any children of your own. All I mean by this is that your perspective on these things changes as you raise a child.

It's about sending a message. Explaining through clearly defined rules that him having sex with his girlfriend is not responsible behavior at his age. And the bedroom door rule isn't just to prevent sex. It's also drinking, smoking cigarettes and smoking ANYTHING for that matter.

Yes, he is going to have sex if he wants to. He

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[TheSkyIsPurple]

I completely disagree with this - because it's a blanket statement. Some people are mature enough for intimiate relationships by the age of 16 - in that case protected (IE with a condom) sex isn't a problem.
i thought you said you taught him about condoms?

It doesn't sound like his child is in a position to have responsible sex. Condom [wikipedia.org]s aren't 100% effective. They break sometimes, they aren't always kept in the proper conditions, applied properly, etc.

The kid is not living on his own, and not providing hit own way, nor I'm guessing is he prepared to do so.

Putting those two together, the kid would be exposing himself to a better than 1 in 50 chance of getting a girl pregnant in good circumstances, and having to deal with the consequences... consequences which would also affect the kid's parent as well.

It would be irresponsible to take an action for which there is an expected response that you are not capable of handling. Wouldn't it? Especially when that response directly affects the life of another.

I agree: trust your teen
But: There's a reason auto insurance rates don't drop until you're 25 though... trust your teen to lie to your or be stupid from time to time. Create an environment in which they can talk to you about their screw-ups, but do your part to ensure those screwups aren't as likely to happen also.

Re:

[rhaig]

look jackass... he said that your perspective changes on this as you raise a child.

how about trying to refute that? (since you're apparently all about the point by point, but skip the points you cant refute) Get back to us when your oldest child is say... 15.

"your perspective changes" is all he said. he didn't say you're full of shit.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

This was originally posted by an A.C. as a reply to one of your other posts, but I'm going to repost it here. I agree totally.

---

You're a moron. You think you're all grown up at 22? The biggest mistakes of your life still lie ahead of you.

What's arrogance is a 22 year old who thinks he's all grown up. What's arrogance is a 22 year old who thinks he knows better for someones child then the person who RAISED the child. What's arrogance is opening your mouth and offering opinions about things you've never experienced.

When you're a student, you see a lot of teachers. You can describe their job. You can explain their responsibilities. A student can emulate his teacher. A student can occassionally even teach his teacher. But that doesn't prepare a student to *be* a teacher. That isn't an insult to the student, it's just a fact of life.

Someday you'll be a teacher. That day is not today.

---

Wait for your day, son.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

I've taught my son humility. I've taught him that he isn't always right. I've taught him to respect his elders. I've taught him that he's going to be wrong more often then he's going to be right.

You're 22 fricken years old. You're SIX YEARS OLDER then the child we're discussing here. How do you think you're AT ALL qualified to raise a 16 year old when you're 22? Give me a break, man.

You don't think I'd like to be 22 again? Of course I would. And if we were debating the finer points of picking up women at a dance club or dorm-life in america today, you'd have the upper hand. But you're just not equipped for this debate. It's outside your area of expertise.

Really, let it go. You've posted 30 comments in this thread and I haven't seen a single one modded up. Do you think all the mod's are "ageists?" Perhaps they've just recognized your posts as trolling for an argument.

It doesn't seem to me like you're mature enough to even handle slashdot, let alone raising a teenager.

I don't think you understand just what we're talking about. A little mini-man who feels like he's all grown up, who feels like he's got the world by the balls. A boy old enough to look in the mirror and see the face of a man. It's not easy today to raise a child to be a good person. There are 100 different things trying to pull him from the path that his mother and I have set him on.

This has been a fun way to waste a morning. I'll talk about my kids any chance I get. What I won't do, however, is give unsolicited parenting advice. I suggest you do the same.

Re:

[shaneh0]

"Knowledge and wisdom doesn't require first hand expirience"

This, my dear old friend, is where you're wrong. There are somethings that this applies to. I think you used AIDS as an example. You don't need to have AIDS to know that it's bad.

But parenting is not one of these things. You can't read a book on parenting and know how to be a good parent. Funny enough, it's like driving. What if I told you that I've never ACTUALLY driven, but I HAVE seen a lot of people do it. I happen to have coworkers at work who

Re:

[rhaig]

lots of observation is a good start. The part that is greatly different is the actual participation in the act of raising a child. It's good that you're learning about these things through observation. Try volunteering with some youth groups. It's a start into the participation without becoming a breeder. Once you've invested yourself in a child, your perspective changes. Your opinion may or may not change (you inferred incorrectly from the perspective statement) but your perspective certainly will.

I'

Re:

[shaneh0]

Where did I learn to be a good parent?

On the job training. There is no other way.

Give. It. Up. You do not know as much about raising children as a parent does, ESPECIALLY a parent that's been a parent for 16 years. I'm really, really sorry that feel that's unfair. It's just how it is. There is NOTHING, N-O-T-H-I-N-G to prepare a person for parenthood. It's a totally different beast then ANYTHING you've ever done or ever will do. Just accept that fact and move on.

Driving isn't much like parenthood, but it is

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[Cthefuture]

I wouldn't say they are a moron. This is typical of that age group. From 18-25 or so you think you have grown up and know what you are doing. You realize there are things you don't know about but at the same time you think you know what they are and can handle them. It's the age of what I would call adult arrogance (versus teen-age arrogance). You think you are humble but really you have no idea what it means.

It's only once you get past 25 or so (depending on experience) you realize what it means to be humble. As the OP stated, there are a lot of humbling experiences to be had in the 18-25 ages and these change you. You realize that you truly don't know anything and will experience many more humbling moments. It's at that point you become what I consider an adult.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[toofast]

I don't think it's a sense of distrust... But then again, when I got my license to drive at 17, my
parents only very reluctantly lent me their car twice. Despite being on my best behaviour both times, they made it clear that if I wanted to drive, I would have to buy my own car.

So I got a part time job, borrowed money from Dad and bought a decent used car, and paid back every penny of my loan. And hey, the car was mine, so I was free to do as I please. Abuse it? Break it? Too bad, I had to fix it.

Despite that, I still managed to earn a college diploma and today, at 33, I have a wife, kids, 3 cars, a nice house that's paid for and a great job.

I think letting your kids drive around in a vehicle that doesn't belong to them reduces their incentive to work and pay for what they want. Has nothing to do with responsibility. You want it, earn it!

Re:You learn through mistakes

[GeckoX]

_giving_ a 16 year old a car is the STUPIDEST thing ANY parent could do at that point.

For SOO many reasons.

Driving a vehicle is a huge responsibility, one which most 16 year olds are not fully ready for, PARTICULARLY if they're just handed the keys...they have no concept of the repercussions. They have no respect for vehicles. They have no concept of the financial end of things. And by GIVING them a car, you take away the chance for them to learn these things.

I never had my own car until I worked my ass off long enough to buy my own, and pay for my own insurance.

I was able to borrow my parents car, on occasion, but certainly not regularly. And even then, I had to pay for my own insurance.

I've never wrecked a car. I've never been reckless with a car. My sister, my wife, her brother...all similar circumstances growing up. ALL of us have respect for vehicles.

Just about everyone I know though that was given their first car ended up totalling it in one way or the other.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

It's only unsafe when lowering the speed limit, because nobody listens, and nobody enforces it. Then you when you get somebody who actually obeys the limit, it causes chaos. Just an example. I live in Canada, and many of the 4 lane roads (not highways) that commuters take to work have a 50 km/h speed limit. Nobody obeys the limit, and everybody drives around 70 km/h. Nobody get's ticketed for driving 70 km/h. Now, because everybody is driving 70, it's very easy for the cops to find a person driving 80

Re:You learn through mistakes

[indifferent children]

Or Montana.

No, too many armed crazies in Montana. Stick with Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yup

[Moraelin]

That's what I was thinking. My parents were such control freaks, that I had one of them or grandma on my back pretty much the whole time. Even in about half the summer camps or such, one would actually take a vacation to come keep an eye on me. I have no doubt that if such a device had existed, they'd have set the speed limit to 1 mph just for tracking sake.

Re:Yup

[Anonymous Coward]

How dare you speak about me and your mother like that!

Re:

[SatanicPuppy]

Yea, I've seen a lot of that stuff in my life...I had pretty much the opposite situation, which meant, of course, that I dicked around, got mediocre grades, got in trouble, ran amok, etc.

Then I hit a point where I got concerned about the rest of my life, got my crap together, and started making an effort...I was around 16 or 17 (I understand this is not common).

So I go to college, and I do fine, because I'd always had to motivate myself, and I'd always had to prioritize my time, and I'd always had freedom s

Parents can be dopes both ways

[anomaly]

Either by ignoring their kids or crushing them with the weight of monitoring and impossible expectations. Sounds like your parents were closer to the latter camp than the middle. Sorry about that.

My job as a dad is to become less and less controlling with my kids - to give them enough lattitude to make errors where the consequences are minimal. I knew a guy in HS whose uncle bought him a Corvette at 16. He totalled it, and his uncle bought him another one! DUMB!

I allow my kids as they mature to have mo

Re:Untill...

[palad1]

Then smart kids will drive backwards.

(I know, I know... gps, vectors, maths, yadda yadda)

Re:Untill...

[D-Cypell]

I can just see hundreds of parents congratulating themselves on doing such an excellent job because their son/daughter drives at -120MPH.

Backwards

[Savage-Rabbit]

Then smart kids will drive backwards.

Are you sure that is a good idea? There was a gear-head in Germany (IIRC) who reversed the superstructure on his WV Beetle so that the boot was at the front and he looked out what used to be the rear window while driving. He was eventually banned from driving the car due to the fact that the wierd way it looked caused so many accidents.

Re:Untill...

[bitflip]

Why drive backwards? Just turn the GPS unit around so it's facing the other way...

Re:Untill...

[discord5]

Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go.

Child has device rigged by friend with knowledge of electronics... Parents baffled.

Never underestimate the great lengths kids will go through to do something they're not supposed to and get away with it. In fact, adults probably'd do the same.

Re:

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go."

+5 Insightful? Okay, can anybody actually imagine this happening in real life? Not only would the kids not even bother with the car, but that's frickin dangerous. Even an over-zealous parent would find this silly.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting this post, but insightful is pretty far down on my list of adjectives for this line of reasoning.

In more recent news...

[Anonymous Coward]

said teen is tracked down and given a beating for being such a snitch. Film at eleven.

So? Unplug it.

[ettlz]

Really, unless this thing hooks the ECU to mandate its use. Or does it work on parental faith alone?

Re:

[Fred_A]

Alternatively it could simply be bolted on an run on battery. GPS trackers aren't exactly battery hogs.

But then all it takes is to remove the battery. Or wrap it in tin foil or something.

Parent: Where the hell did you go, the GPS website couldn't find you ?

Teen: mumblemumble there were lots of tunnels...

Parental Control

[triorph]

Yes because we can so trust the parents to have the teenager's interests in mind when it comes to these things. Anyway aren't there like different speed limits per area? what if a parent were to set it to 50 and you were bleeping as speeding around in the country.

Re:

[brian.glanz]

Setting it to 50 is not necessarily to assume and report all driving above 50 as speeding. If an interested party set it to 50: they'd not be assuming the driver can never legally exceed 50, but that whenever the driver is exceeding 50 they are concerned enough to want speed data correlated with location and limit. BG

Re:

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

Yes because we can so trust the parents to have the teenager's interests in mind when it comes to these things.

Teens are generally not responsible adults. The ones who are are capable of moving out on their own, and getting their own car.

If the parents aren't considering the teenager's interests, then that teenager is probably already screwed beyond repair, and a GPS device isn't exactly going to make the situation worse.

Re:

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Yes because we can so trust the parents to have the teenager's interests in mind when it comes to these things

Yeah. 'cause my parents were sociopathic killers who stalked me whenever the opportunity.

kid be cautious !!!

[b1ufox]

He should worry too because, his mom may pin his invention under his car :)

Or may be he knows how to find a workaround to protect his privacy...

not perfect

[joe 155]

couldn't you just take the thing out or un-plug it? then it'd look like you never drove over the speed limit : )

More seriously this relies on the people who are driving (you can do it from 16, right?) being rational and sensible. If they were rational and sensible they wouldn't do it because it would make them look bad to their parents, but they wouldn't do that anyway because they wouldn't want to break the law and risk their lives. If the people weren't rational and sensible they would drive like an idiot anyway and not thing of the consequences (something I think is far more likely).

Further I'm not even convinced that speeding is that dangerous, drink/drug driving is far more likely to result in a fatal accident - and I have met people who do just that for fun. It's idiocy but these are just the people who you'd need to deal with...

Re:

[arivanov]

I have to agree with you. A very small proprotion of the people who speed on a motorway or a country road around where I live are teenagers.

Now driving without due care and attention, talking on the phone, overtaking right in front of a car in the opposite lane, pulling out without looking for traffic, jumping red lights, ignoring "no left/right turn" signs and otherwise driving while in a "brain impaled on the penis" state - that is definitely the norm (when I see teenager rates for car insurers, I cannot

Re:

[tehwebguy]

indeed, while i guess this could be something worth using if you know that your kid is a leadfoot, it is hardly a fix for the problem.

the problem in florida would be solved by making the driving test actually test you. you can pass it with your eyes closed, hell -- even i can admit i should not have had my license when i got it.

Re:

[Jussi K. Kojootti]

Further I'm not even convinced that speeding is that dangerous, drink/drug driving is far more likely to result in a fatal accident

More likely, yes. On the other hand drunk driving is rare (less than 0.2% of drivers around here) and excessive speeding even in urban areas is quite common.

FYI, speed has been found to correlate quite clearly with accident rate in urban areas, and lowering the speed limit often, although not always, lowers the accident rate significantly. (sorry no references in english, you

Re:

[hotdiggitydawg]

look at the difference in injuries between a child hit at 30mph (usually survivable if we're to believe the literature) and one hit at, say 60mph (usually fatal, IIRC).

There's an ad campaign [thinkroadsafety.gov.uk] running over here in the UK that quotes an 80% survival rate for children hit at 30mph, and an 80% fatality rate for children hit at 40mph.

Oh, please.

[Triv]

I don't want to know how fast my (hypothetical) kid is driving 99% of the time. It's not my business, it's really not, unless he gets hurt, hurts someone else, damages MY property or gets in trouble with the police. I don't care what he does until something happens. THAT'S when I spring into dad-mode. THAT'S when I start to ask questions and yell and devise new and cunning punishments. Until then, it's up to him what he does. Hopefully I'd've raised him smarter than to put himself and his passengers into danger, and I'll assume I did until he proves me wrong.

It's called trust. Remember that?

Triv

Re:Oh, please.

[Chaffar]

It's called trust. Remember that?

You'd trust your kids if you actually bothered educating them about what's right and what's wrong. But most parents have outsourced that function to a third entity (School/ Friends/ Neighbours/ TV/ All of the above).

We don't educate our kids anymore, we give them Ritalin.

Re:Oh, please.

[Firehed]

I'd kill for a mod point right now. And by kill, I mean some sort of responsible alternative, since my morals thankfully weren't outsourced.

Re:Oh, please.

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Yes. It is called trust. However, trust is not something anyone should automagically get....even your kid. Trust is something that's earned. In the case of my son, he won't DRIVE if he does something I don't agree with. All of this is conditional though. Everyone has an occasional slip. Speeding tickets are just that. If he gets more then one or continues to have an issue, he's done. No monitoring needed......he won't drive until we say so. Why? Because I AM THE PARENT. So long as he lives in my house, it's my rules in and out of the house. After he leaves, he can get his privacy but not until then.

Re:Oh, please.

[Kamiza Ikioi]

As for me, it certainly is my business. They are a "kid", a child, not an adult. Parents have the right to know where, when, who, etc. A parent has the right to tell their child, for instance, that they can't leave the state or city. A parent has the right to tell their child they can't go to a party where liquor is being served or drugs are being used. A parent has the right to tell their child that they cannot speed.

I'm not saying I'd track the kid, but I will tell them to drive the speed limit, and whether they get in trouble or not, I expect them to follow my rules. Otherwise, you're telling your kid, "Hey, as long as you don't get caught, I don't care if you [insert illegal activity here]." Children need sensable boundaries along with the freedom to be themselves.

Forget kids, if I lone my car out to anyone, I have the right to know where they are going, who will be going with them, and that they are obeying all traffic laws while using MY car.

I'm all for privacy, but call me old fashioned. Children living in MY house live under MY rules. As my father told me and his father before him... you are free to do whatever you please after you move out. This may offend some younger /.r's, but a 16 year old who just got their license is certainly NOT a mature adult capable of making their own rules up. With age and maturity comes more freedom. But for a young new driver, I can't see an almost no rules environment where the one rule is "I'm not getting bailed out of jail".

Would I actually put a GPS bug in my child's car? No. I would rather buy a pre-paid cellphone and hide it somewhere in the interior of the car with a power adapter spliced to the wiring, and let my child know about it. This for safety, not privacy invasion. Car gets stolen or child comes up missing, one phone call by the police to the cell phone company will locate the car.

Also, let's not confuse child privacy with adult privacy. I find no moral or legal grounding for a child's right to privacy from their own parents. Those who say otherwise are either trying to be the "cool" parent or are not a parent. "I don't care what he does until something happens. THAT'S when I spring into dad-mode." I'm not telling you how to raise your children, because that is certainly not my business. But, since it is your "(hypothetical)" kid, I can already guess you want to be the "cool" parent. Just realize it's a little late to spring into dad-mode when they hit a telephone poll at 100mph killing their girlfriend and paralyzing themselves, because his "best bud" wants to look the other way until something bad happens. There is no "dad-mode". You are either a dad, or you are not.

That's equivalent to not telling your child to not play with the stove until they get 3rd degree burns on their hands. I'd be interested to hear your comments when you actually have a 16 year old with a license.

It's called parenting. And you haven't learned that yet.

Re:

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

I'm not telling you how to raise your children, because that is certainly not my business.

Arguably, it is to some extent, if those children are going to participate/vote/etc in your society.

Otherwise, I agree completely.

Re:Oh, please.

[lgftsa]

Just realize it's a little late to spring into dad-mode when they hit a telephone poll at 100mph killing their girlfriend and paralyzing themselves

Killing themselves is simply evolution in action. The girlfriend is complicit in her own fate, unless she was held in the car against her will. It's the oncoming vehicles/pedestrians/etc who are innocent bystanders who you should feel sorry for.

I can't understand the hand wringing over the hoons who kill themselves, and I include the passengers in that category. If the driver is unsafe, don't be in the car.

Perhaps I have a overdeveloped sense of self-presevation, but I don't allow someone to endanger me even if they are one of the "cool crowd" or a "friend".

Re:Oh, please.

[jacquems]

It's called parenting.

I think the ultimate goal of parenting is to help your children learn how to make good decisions. The only way to do that is to let them make some and experience the logical consequences of their actions. For example, if your kid leaves his bike outside in the rain and it rusts, he gets a much clearer message about why it's important to put the bike away than if you simply tell him to put it away "because I said so". I do draw the line at safety issues, but even then I don't have iron-clad rules enforced by punishment. I let my daughter know what is the safe thing to do and why (i.e. "Your head can get hurt if you fall off the bike. Always wear a bike helmet.") and help her do it until she's ready to do it on her own.

Children also need to feel worthwhile and valued in the family. When children feel that they are worthwhile human beings, they are more likely to act with their safety in mind, and to want to please their parents. More than anything, I think the feeling that my parents cared about my well-being was what made me want to be a safe driver as a teenager. I knew that people often got hurt or killed while driving, and I did my best to make sure it wouldn't happen to me (at least not through my own fault).

Parents need to guide and advise their children - by sharing their values and stating their expectations - but in the end children need to learn to think for themselves. Hopefully by the time a child is old enough to drive, he/she will have had enough practice making good decisions about other things to also make smart choices when driving. If not, all the high-tech parental spying gadgets in the world aren't going to help.

Re:

[tomjen]

I could not agree with you more - If your cannot trust your child to drive carefully, you have failed as a parent and you have bigger issues than this. All the electric gismoes in the world would not help you if you cannot trust you child, because if you cannot trust him/her how should the rest of society be able too?

At a certain point you just have to say - okay i have no reason to assume my kid is not responsible enough to have X, so that is not a reason why he should not have it. As you raise your kid, X

Re:

[Twylite]

Yeah, because the moment I do know my (hypothetical) kid is breaking the law, it becomes my legal obligation to (a) report the crime, and (b) take action to prevent my property from being used in the commission of future crimes of this sort. So unless I ground the kid or take appropriate action to "reeducate" him/her/it not to repeat the crime, I share in the criminal liability.

So no, this isn't good for anyone.

Re:

[jamesh]

I'd trust my kids to do the right thing, but i'd not necessarily trust them to always have a balanced idea of what the right thing is.

The funny thing about kids is that they tend to be very impulsive (some more so than others) and very easily swayed by peer pressure. At 5am, after partying for 8 hours and consuming even a small amount of alcohol, the 'right thing' can be pretty hard to define for an 18 year old.

Also remember, a 6am knock on the door by a police officer is not the way you want to find out th

Re:

[dreamchaser]

It's obvious that said kids are hypothetical, because it most certainly IS a parents job to know where their kids are, who they are with, and what they are doing. It's part of this thing called 'responsible parenting', which is sadly an increasingly rare commodity.

Re:Oh, please.

[trcooper]

I don't have a hypothetical kid. I have a real kid. And as a parent I know it's my responsibility to be aware of when my son is doing stupid which could harm him. It's not a lack of trust, it's a realization that kids do things that are dumb regardless of how responsible they or their parents think they are. I know that when I was a teen I did things I should not have, and would have been better off avoiding. I also remember thinking that I was much more responsible and mature than my peers. I now know that I didn't have a clue, and that my parents were right the vast majority of the time.

What teens don't realize is their situation is hardly unique. One of the things you start to realize as you mature is that you and your parents aren't so different. My parents grew up in the 40's & 50's, I grew up in the 80's and 90's. Even with that type of difference in age I realize now the same issues I faced, they had bee through 3 or 4 decades earlier. Parents do have good advice and insight to give their children, if they'll actually listen. Problem is, kids in every generation think they're the only ones with these particular issues or problems, and they're flat out wrong.

Teens want freedom. That's natural. But with freedoms come responsibility that most kids just aren't able to see the entire scope of. That's where parents come in and take some of that responsibility upon themselves to curb their childrens freedoms when neccessary. A parent should never at any point say, well, you're X age, I've done what I can, good luck. I still take advice from my old man. And appreciate it more now.

Of course teen /.rs reading this will disagree... I probably would have, had /. been available via gopher.

Speed limit of the Road

[SurfSlade]

The device don't know the speed limit of the road he's on. He can go 70 mph on a 20 mph road. The device won't know.

Re:

[rolfwind]

Plus the speed limit is painfully slow in some areas. Everybody goes 65-75 on my local "55"mph highway. How will the teen react if the device is set to 55mph, will s/he follow it out of obligation and get themselves killed*

I'd much rather have a built in car device that detects the blood-alcohol level of the driver (any driver, not just teens) and not start the car. Once the car is started, I think any dumb device like this is dangerous for all involved. I mean, by the time your kids start driving, they

Wouldnt This be Great...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you slapped it on a dog and your nosey parents see you as driving through all the neighbors lawns, maybe a school yard or two.

My only regret would not being able to see their faces as this happened

Why only for teens?

[OscarBlock]

Maybe this should be fitted to the cars of adults - the results could be sent to their local schools to show that they are setting a good example.

Re:

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Not a bad idea. Fortunately for my wife who JUST GOT A TICKET, my son was in the car....now he reminds her about it! :D My wife was horrible with this, but then everyone who drives on this street is. It's a busy throughfare with a 25 MPH limit, but I have routinely seen people going 45+ on this street.

Privacy?

[alzoron]

I'm assuming they're driving this car in public. Unless they're driving through their room with the door shut how could this be a violation of privacy?

The car is legally the parents responsibility. The teen is legally the parents responsibility. Kids expect so much privacy these days.

Re:

[Pofy]

>The car is legally the parents responsibility.

In what way? For most things, the driver is responsible for his actions for example.

>The teen is legally the parents responsibility.

Ehh, if we disregard the fact that most countries (although not all) has the same age limit for driver license as for becoming adult (in a legal sense), there is still the case that in most countries parents are not legally responsible for all their children do.

>Kids expect so much privacy these days.

Parents trust their ki

Re:

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

In any case the teen almost certainly has the right to come and go as s/he pleases at 16, whether the parent realizes this or not.

I would replace "come and go" with "go".

At the same age that the child can legally "come and go as s/he pleases", that child can be kicked out of the house. If the 16-year-old "adult" (hah!) wants to live in the parents' house, s/he can live by the parents' rules.

How?

[onion2k]

The device, which plugs into the electrical outlet in a car and sits on the dashboard, will monitor a car's speed only when the driver exceeds a specified limit.

Is it a magical device? Because I don't see how it can only monitor the speed of the car only when the car is speeding. It'd need to monitor the speed of the car all the time to know when it starts speeding. I can see that it might only log the GPS location of the car when the speed exceeds a certain amount .. but that's not what the article says.

spanfastic

[sporkme]

I think this is wonderful. The news is not about tracking teens, nor is it about snooping governments. This is a success story for an young engineer. This kid has seen his invention from conception, through development and prototype, all the way to investment. He has polled his resources and called upon special talents: (from TFA) "Jon's sister, Julie, 21, helped coin the device's name, and Jon's uncle, Kurt Lanza, helped with the computer programming." He has a specific goal in mind. "His program weeds out extra information from the GPS, protecting teens' privacy. Their parents can see what they're doing only if they break the rules set by the parents." IMHO Jonathan Fischer may be a Benedict Arnold to some "Speed Demon" kids, but to proponents of safe driving and to parents who have buried their children, he is a Benjamin Franklin.

Keep going, Jon. Call me if you need a good email checker-er-er.

Might as well use magnets

[Peter Cooper]

Years ago we had these digital speedometers that used a magnet on the wheel to detect speed. No need for GPS nonsense.

This is appalling

[Toby The Economist]

We learn what we *do*.

What's a teenager doing when he's being monitored by his parents?

What he's doing is not being trusted. So he's learning that his parents do not trust him, and he's learning that they will forcefully impose themselves into his life to coerce his behaviour; he's learning to resent them and he's learning that speeding is only wrong because it is prohibited by parents.

Re:

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

What he's doing is not being trusted. So he's learning that his parents do not trust him

Since when does parenting involve trusting teens without limit?

and he's learning that they will forcefully impose themselves into his life to coerce his behaviour

Damn right.

I wonder...

[no.17]

So the device plugs into the electrical outlet...surely any teen that's going to go off speeding would simply reverse slowly out of the driveway of their parents house, wave goodbye, drive cautiously round the corner- unplug the thing and dump it in a hedge- speed like mad for the next five hours then pick it up on the way back...

Or am I just too much of a miscreant?

Dude...

[theonetruekeebler]

He is so getting his ass kicked in school tomorrow.

That said, this is probably the best incentive a teen ever had to get a job, save money, and buy his own damn car.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot

[NMerriam]

Should be titled "Teen creates device to prevent himself from ever being invited to parties".

Re:Way to shoot yourself in the foot

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

Should be titled "Teen creates device to prevent himself from ever being invited to parties".

Where do you think this teen got the free time to create this device? Perhaps it was from already not being invited to parties?

Step 1. Jocks refuse to invite geek to parties
Step 2. Geek sells GPS device to jocks' parents.
Step 3. Fun and Profit!

Re:

[cptgrudge]

So the moral of this story is that jocks should be keeping the geeks laid and happy.

I for one welcome our new benevolent, cheerleader bestowing, jock overlords.

I'm not sure that's the answer

[symbolic]

Much of teen driving problems come from two sources: overconfidence, and distractions. Some states have laws that permit only a certain number of people in the car at certain stages of the licencing process- and they do that for a reason. Teens are notorious for packing friends into a car to go out and 'have a good time', but the passengers become a major source of distraction. Despite what young drivers may think of their abilities, they need to concentrate on driving, and worry about having 'fun' after they exit the vehicle.

Not always speed

[Trailwalker]

I work for a large cemetery. Every year, we have two periods when teens are killed in automobile accidents. The few weeks after school starts and the few weeks after school is out.

These accidents seldom involve speeding. They usually happen in the teens own neighborhood. Losing control of the vehicle and hiting something solid or rolling over cause the fatalities.

Better driver education, more emphasis on seatbelt use, etc. would save more lives than any speed recorder.

How does it protect against tampering?

[Hast]

Several ways to tamper with the device has already been mentioned. But how about just removing the SD card and removing the violations?

Since it doesn't seem to track the actual speed limit (that would be quite a bit more complex) it seems like it would need a pretty high preset limit. (Or a limit for in city driving.)

It's a pretty neat project though. And making your own hardware box like that is not a small feat for anyone.

yea...

[Heem]

That kid is SO gonna get beat up at school.

Of course!

[hcdejong]

Everyone knows speeding is the only possible cause of traffic accidents. (/sarcasm)

This sort of thinking bugs me no end. Accident statistics clearly show that speed is a contributing factor in a minority (maybe 20%) of accidents and the sole cause of an even smaller percentage. Driving while distracted causes many more accidents.
Yet, where I live, >95% of traffic citations are for speeding. For the last few years, we've had more speeding tickets per year than we have licensed drivers, meaning that on ave

That's great, now how about one for you, dad?

[Hamster Lover]

If I was a teenager I would only agree to use the device if my parents agreed to put one in their vehicles as well; put everyone in "the circle of trust". I doubt that would go down well with the parents.

This device also undermines the development of a teenagers ethical sense in that they are no longer responsible to themselves in making driving decisions now that the machine is making that decision for them. At some point in a person's life the parents have to let go and leave their child to learn to be re

Re:That's great, now how about one for you, dad?

[Dachannien]

If I was a teenager I would only agree to use the device if my parents agreed to put one in their vehicles as well;

Hope you like walking, then, son.

I'd like something like it for myself

[markus_baertschi]

I'd like a device like this for myself. It would need to know the speed-limit of all roads and warn me when I'm over the limit. There could even be a speed-limiter (easily to disable, if necessary).

Not that I'm speeding a lot, but once in a while I find myself too fast because I'm not aware of the limit.

Markus

Old news...saw this on TV 3 years ago

[cjmnews]

A parent demonstrated the same device 3 years ago on TV. Showed that he caught his son doing 42 in a 35 zone.
Seems like the older device was better as it somehow showed the speed limit of the road with the speed of the car.

I don't see how this MA kid recently "invented" this device.

You can buy stuff to do this. No news here.

[dlleigh]

Try google: http://www.google.com/search?q=gps+speed+monitor [google.com]

Rental car companies have gotten into trouble for trying to fine drivers who exceed some limit.

The first teen driver monitor I saw was from Autotap and was code-named "narc on Lisa" because the inventor wanted to make sure his daughter Lisa wasn't doing anything bad. This one plugged into the car's OBDII port, monitored various vehicle parameters such as speed, ignition state and the current time, could sense if it had been disconnected and record that fact.

The "invention" in the original article is neither original nor noteworthy.

Re:ever tried getting speed information from a GPS

[QuantumG]

I more thought it would work like the code that detects speed hacks in MMORPGs. You got from point A to point B in X amount of time. The minimum possible speed without teleporting is Y. X Y, therefore you teleported or otherwise speed hacked the client.

Re:

[ColaMan]

Couldn't be bothered reading TFA.

Solution :

1. Drive into covered car park at mall.

2. Fit alfoil to GPS antenna.

3. Proceed to drive as fast as you want, wherever you like.

4. Drive back to mall.

5. Remove alfoil from antenna.

6. Drive home.

7. Tell parents you spent a few hours lounging listlessly at the mall, suffering in your teenage angst.

If it logs ignition on time, it would be trickier. But not that much trickier for the average teen.

Re:

[Erwos]

First off, this is a trust _verification_ mechanism. If you've got such issues with your kid that you think they're going to start pulling stuff like you just described, the obvious answer is to just not hand them the car.

Making the assumption that all you can do is disable the GPS antenna, and not actually tamper with the logs or the device physically, don't you think the parent might notice something when the device points out that they didn't have a GPS lock (or even PRN sighting) at any time during thei

Re:

[tomjen]

The reason we give teens good skills is the same reason RIAA cannot make a decent DRM system - It takes one person to break it and then everyone can show it to their friends.

Second of all - slashdotters are geeks and we hate things that prevent us from doing what we want.

I happend to like finding ways to prevent things like this from working. Hmm maybe I could be popular if I publish a simple guide to disabeling systems like this.

In Denmark some politicians have installed an anti childporn filter. So the fi

Re:

[ColaMan]

Making the assumption that all you can do is disable the GPS antenna, and not actually tamper with the logs or the device physically, don't you think the parent might notice something when the device points out that they didn't have a GPS lock (or even PRN sighting) at any time during their little trip? In other words, your scenario wouldn't work against an even-somewhat well designed device.

If you seriously think a GPS system is able to sight through a solid carpark covering, then think again. A simple plo

Re:

[Scutter]

But not that much trickier for the average teen.

Eaten fast food lately? The average teen can't make change without using the cash register computer. I think you overestimate the average teen's abilities.

Re:

[rbarreira]

As if calculation abilities were required for thinking.

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

This is completely off topic, but I feel it is worth mentioning that the teen is from Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Really? because the summery says: "A teen in Massachusetts... "

As someone who was born and raised in Massachusetts I think it would be a disgrace to the great country of Canada mixing them up like that.

Re:

[DrXym]

As it happens, Ireland is actually a place where the system should have stood a good chance of working. Car insurance is extremely expensive for young male drivers. A system that could cut the bills in half should be seen as a good thing. I doubt the bad drivers would go for it, but the good ones in normal vehicles could.

BTW the reason that insurance is expensive is because there are a lot of chavs / monkeys in that age bracket who stand a good chance of crashing, killing or maiming. The funniest thing I

it's coming

[sdnoob]

we got all those "little black boxes" in new cars nowadays.. it won't be long before they're gps-enabled and the cops & insurance companies want to tap into them 24/7 so they can harrass anyone doing 56 in a 55.