County-Wide Wireless To Be Deployed in Michigan

alien88 writes "Late last week, the Washtenaw County Board approved Wireless Washtenaw Advisory Board's recommendation of 20/20 Communications to cover the entire county with wireless by the end of 2007. This includes Ann Arbor, the home of University of Michigan and future home of Google's Adwords division. The wireless network will be free for speeds up to 85kbps and $35/month for 500kbps. 20/20 Communications estimates it will take around 6,000 radios to cover the county.

This initiative is being funded without taxpayer dollars and is one of the most ambitious wireless deployments in the U.S. Will it succeed or will it fail? Check out the county's wireless website for updates on the project." Of course, the real reason this is worth posting is it's because this is the county where Rob, myself and a number of the others live.

Washtenaw's neighbor, Oalkand County tried this..

and the telcos used their lobbying dollars to CRUSH the effort. Good luck Washtenaw!

Re:Washtenaw's neighbor, Oalkand County tried this

I think it is the free plan that has the ISPs worried. Even though 85kbps is no good for VOIP and video streaming, it is more than sufficient for the average Internet user. You can check your e-mail, send instant messages, and browse the headlines at that speed.

This could also negatively impact the adoption of high speed cellular data networks, which are becoming popular with businesses.

Wireless in other states?

I am a HUGE fan of the county/city wide wireless programs that are popping up all over the U.S. And Canada. While I do love this, I do have a few reservations. One reason why I do not live out where I want to (The Catskills in NY) is I cannot get broadband service without paying a huge amount of money. However, I am wondering how well a system like this would work in a mountainous area such as the Adirondacks or the Catskill Plateau... Does anyone have any information on a town/county/state implmenting a wireless network over ruggard terrain to reach the rural people where wireless might be blocked by hills, mountains etc? I would be very interested to see how something like this would be put into good use.

Damn, I just moved!

I lived in Ann Arbor for 5 years and just moved to Austin, Texas for graduate school. Damme!

Ann Arbor was always ahead of the game.

They had the MERIT network there practically before Al Gore invented the Internet.

livvin in

...this is the county where Rob, myself and a number of the others live in.

... and work as professional editors.

Now please don't go Slashdotting the free wireless

I felt a great disturbance in the Network, as if millions of Washtenawans suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

UK surely a more appropriate target?

If this can work in the U.S., presumably it would work even better in the UK with similar internet usage and a much higher population density.

A naive question

Perhaps someone out there knows the answer to this ... if I were to fly over this region would I (briefly) be able to access the internet from my laptop? If the Access Points have miles of range, does that range extend *up* as well as *out*? Just curious. And of course, by extension, as more and more cities roll these things out, will we have access to the net wherever we fly? Assuming the answer to my question is yes, could this begin to impact airplane design (especially small planes), by assuming net access? Planes could report their position (on board GPS tells them where they are, then they use the wireless net to communicate to "Air Traffic Controller" servers, which could then send back flight instructions). Just a few random thoughts for a Monday morning ...

Re:A naive question

Probably not. Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washtenaw_County,_Mic higan [wikipedia.org]

lists the area of the county at 723 square miles and the summary says 6000 radios. 723/6000 is 0.1205. So a typical tower is going to cover just over a tenth of a square mile, which is less than 2000 feet on a side. Unless you are flying pretty low, you aren't going to get much of a signal.

Except

There are no obstructions up and down, whereas there are obstructions laterally - trees, buildings, cell phone towers, etc. The range vertically is much, much larger than the range laterally. You could probably go a couple of miles.

You can communicate with the shuttle and amateur satellites (that are 250-500km in elevation, not to mention a lateral distance away) on ham bands on half a watt of power - these transmitters are probably a tenth of a watt. So a few miles would be a fair assumption on these radios that are working on (IIRC) 100mW of power.

Pointless....

City/countywide 802.11 a/b/g is POINTLESS!!!! I really don't understand why all this money and resources is being spent on it. They have horrible range and were never meant to cover an area this big, so you have to buy an insane amount of AP's to get decent coverage. I bet when all is said and done they end up with 8,000 AP's and the project ends up costing a few hundred thousand dollars. On top of that, constant maintaince that ends up not making it economically viable.

Calm down with the citywide wireless. I know WiMax have been dragging their feet, but my guess is by 2009 we'll have usable WiMax that is ready for city wide deployment. You are going to waste all this time and money now, so that in 3 years you are superceeded by WiMax (which will do the job better and have less maintaince). Hot spots are fine. If you want to drop 200 access points around the county to get some coverage for popular places, that's ok. 200 access points would probably be viable. 6,000 (or in reality 8,000) aren't.

Re:Pointless....

Sometimes it's worth it to go for broke at the start. You can assume that the Slashdotters know what working free countywide net access could mean, but it's not until it's there and usable that the general population will learn its advantages. After that, when WiMax or whatever else comes along to supercede 802.11 becomes viable and cheap enough, Average Joe and the Sixpack family will be more willing to support the upgrades (through taxes or otherwise) since they'll have been grooving on the WiFi for a while and will be receptive to a better version.

Imagine if they'd held off building any telegraph networks in the 19th Century, on basis that it would be just a matter of time before a voice-transmission network could be done instead.

Re:Always eay to spend someone else's money.

People are acting like the money is free. Trouble is a great many people in that county are going to be taxed for a service that a good number will never get to use.

So? A great many people never go down to the public parks, or use the public baseball fields or drive on that county road out in the middle of farm country. The question is not whether everyone will use it, but whether the benefit to the people will be greater than the expense. Will the people benefit by the increased tourism, real estate sales, and reduced cost to local businesses this will provide even if they don't use it directly? It seems likely.

Sorry, if even one trailer exist at a local school it should the first thing addressed.

The public schools in Washtenaw country are well funded.

Quit diverting money from projects already starved of cash.

What projects would those be that people want more?

Internet access at reasonable speeds in Washtenaw county as in many places is provided by the Cable company ($60/month) or the phone company (DSL is $70/month). These outrageous prices hurt everyone. I'm happy the county is instituting public wireless. It saves me money and my neighbors' money and local businesses' money. The general public may not need internet access, but they don't need parks either. The public does want it and so do the businesses. It will almost certainly be cheaper than the current system. I'd rather some of my tax dollars were wasted subsidizing internet access for the poor and those in more rural areas than help fund the monopoly telecos that are bleeding me for money now.

Other Michigan counties

In addition to Washtenaw County, Hillsdale and Lenawee Counties are also setting up a similar wireless network, although these two counties are concentrating their efforts on the most populated areas and kissing off everyone else. (Did I spell kissing correctly?) And none of it is free.

Michigan's in the US?

...and here I thought Michigan was in Canada.
Like a suburb of Saskatewan, right?

Login Required?

Are these networks going to require some type of login for the basic speed or will it be completely open for anyone to use?

Not happening.

This all sounds well and good, but Washtenaw county is the heart of Comcast country. They will find their way into the state legislature's pocketbooks and have this initiative put to sleep like a sick dog.

This is nothing more than election year pipe dreaming.

Oakland County's Pilot has already started....

Oakland County [oakgov.com] in MI has their 802.11 pilot up already. Causing a few problem w/business's who already had an 802.11 network deployed. It's nice to be able to jump on a non-monitored, non-proxied network from work!!

This is new...?

When I first saw this in FireFox... I mis-read it for Country Wide Wireless To Be Deployed... This is old news... even up here in the Good Ole province of Manitoba, we have total coverage Wireless DSL. This, however is an initiative between a private company [inetlink.ca], and the Federal & Provincial Governments [cimnet.ca] Good news though, in any case :) -Chris

More information

Here's the proposal:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:DhXJwaAtDLYJ:w ireless.ewashtenaw.org/partners/privatesec/rfp_624 4.pdf+Ann+arbor+wireless+802.11+washtenaw&hl=en&gl =us&ct=clnk&cd=6&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a [72.14.203.104]

It's a Washtenawism

When Dexter's on the internet, can Hell be far behind?

Mmm...radios are cooking your brains...

...and your shriveled gonads.

Within 50 years, we will all be mutated by the constant bombardment of Wi-Fi, cell, and high voltage lines. Those of us who survive the cancer anyway.

Scare tactics? Tinfoil hat material? They said that about radon too. And asbestos. And lead. But don't you believe it; you just keep firmly pressing that cellphone right up against your temporal lobe. Keep buying houses right under those huge cell towers. (newsflash: they amp the power ridiculously high in order to get wider coverage; FCC never finds out). Enjoy your brief life as you are slowly cooked from the inside out.

Follow the money on the "studies" that have been done that claim that cell traffic is harmless. Now who would benefit from such studies?

Without taxpayer dollars? Really?

Consider that, according to the release, the community will let the operator install 6000 radios on "water towers, buildings, light poles and other structures". In New York City, operators have to pay to get access to such valuable real estate. Providing access to community real estate free of charge is definitely a form of subsidy.

85-500kbps?

85kbps is hardly faster than dial-up, and 500kbps for $35 a month? Even the local telco will provide 1.5mbps for that price (I happen to live in Ann Arbor). Am I missing something here, because anyway you look at it, it's hardly broadband. Then again, it might be kbytes, not kbits (however unlikely that is).

I think it's a bad idea.

This is a bad idea masked as a good idea. What happens when they need a massive upgrade of the technology in 10 years? Or some hacker figures out how to own the entire network?. Taxes will go up and service will suffer. Ann Arbor already has horrible taxes, this will make it worse. Someone who doesn't want or need wifi access now is forced to pay for everyone else. They take what people are willing to pay for, and turn it into a cost center, meaning that they will now get the least-cost service instead of the best service they are willing to pay for. What incentive will private companies have to come in to deliver unique and innovative services if they will just get undercut by the county government? What happens when the folks running Washtenaw County decide to censor websites or emails or blogs that they decide sexist or racist or bigoted? U of M had one of the most restrictive speach codes in the nation, until it was struck down in the courts. Now folks with that same sensibility will have a hand on your access to the internet. I just think this is a bad idea.

Someting cool going on in Michigan?

There seems to be a good trend in terms of WIFI going on in, of all places, Michigan. With Washtanaw, there is now 3 counties that are all connected that are in the process of doing a WIFI project. As mentioned, Oakland (to the north of Washtanaw) is doing WIFI. They have already launched their pilot locations. Then Genesee county, to the north of Oakland, is doing WIFI too. They just got their bids back and are in the process of selecting a vendor. All 3 of these counties are doing WIFI without any taxpayer money. We'll see how well it works... 85k is for the birds. I think the other 2 counties are working on a faster "free" speed than that. The good news is that there are some big name companies (ATT, IBM) that are interested in building some of these networks. If anyone can buck Comcast... it'll be them.

litigation countdown...

What, no telco lawsuits yet?
I'm dissappointed, the pigs are slacking off.

Curses! Missed by a few miles!

And here I am, just outside of the network over in Wayne County (right next door practically). Maybe other counties in the state will start picking this up. It's not a rival to telcos since it's so much slower than broadband offerings, but it would be nice to sit outside away from my own WAP and get some net connectivity :)

Also in Genesee County Soon.

http://www.wirelessgenesee.com/news.html [wirelessgenesee.com] Michigan will be all nice and wireless and then, everyone will move out to find a job. Its great to have free wireless, but if you don't have a job then who cares?!

Free for how long?

Free for how long? Around 1985 the city of Minneapolis, MN awarded cable TV access to a company. Initially, for free any resident could get cable service with all the channels which one could get over the air -- the advantage was increased quality. Anything beyond that basic service cost a fee. That free basic service lasted less than two years. It was a classic bait-and-switch. I expect the same short life for free, limited wireless.

arbornet?

I wonder what impact this might have on arbornet.org, a long-time Ann Arbor BBS. Like maybe lots of BBS's, they've been through having to pay for lots of modems, then getting lean and relying moreso on telnetting over home/ISP accounts. I wonder if the county's wireless plan bodes well or ill for venerable old m-net (arbornet)...

This project is a waste

We need to make sure these people have food and clean water before we start giving them wireless inte... wait... nevermind.

nerdcore

re%

Re:Congradulations Michigan

Sounds like somebody's in a grouchy mood at the cable company this morning.

The way I read it is that there'd be a $35/mo. fee for anything but dialup-level speeds, so it's not free. In fact, it seems a little expensive to me for the speeds they're talking about.

Re:Taxpayer dollars being used?

This article in the local paper [mlive.com] says:

"20/20 Communications is no stranger to wireless projects - it set up a wireless system in Saline, as well as Sylvan and Scio townships, in what Woolf called smaller versions of Wireless Washtenaw. The company, and not the county, is planning to pay the estimated $42 million cost to set up the service and provide the free access within county borders."

Re:It concerns the education of our nation ...

DAMN! I live in Georgia, so we'll never get wireless. Damn conservatives ... Oh, wait, that's me. Poop.

Re:Congradulations Michigan

Two things that show you're a dumbfuck.

It's congratulations, not congradulations. Did you notice when you abbreviated congratulations, you wrote "congrats" and not "congrads"? Of course you didn't. Only non-dumbfucks would notice something like that.

Also, you seem to have trouble with the word "without". From the article summary:

This initiative is being funded without taxpayer dollars.

Since you seem to be unaware, "without" roughly translates to zero. If I say, "you have zero intelligence", or "you're without intelligence", I'm saying the same thing. Still, for everyone involved, it's just easier to say you're a dumbfuck.

The article itself doesn't even use that complicated word "without":

The implementation and maintenance of Wireless Washtenaw will not be funded through public tax money.

So, to sum, no tax money is going to this. Congratulations not congradulations. You're a very stupid person and I hope you die soon.