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Dell's Exploding Laptop Autopsy
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jul 14, 2006 07:34 PM
from the determining-the-cause-of-aaaughh dept.
from the determining-the-cause-of-aaaughh dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Dell has gone to the Consumer Product Safety Commission looking for help determining the cause of death for its exploding laptop. Dell has been blaming the lithium ion battery; the commission seems to have had a few problems with those batteries in the past."
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So there are two cases now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:5, Informative)
Computer companies make almost none of their own parts, and keeping track of what comes from where must be a nightmare. Dell will change battery type (maybe battery manufacturer as well) and this problem will start going away in new laptops. Hopefully the old ones will have battery recalls for the most dangerous types, but the recall will affect many companies.
Parent
Links! (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:4, Interesting)
I dislike dell as much as the next guy (mainly I am tired of all prebuilt PC's anymore, they are so locked down and full of useless shit that I can't properly upgrade them) but when something isn't a company's fault then they shouldn't get the blame for it.
I remember cell phones were blowing up in peoples pockets and when they were using them, was it the cell phone makers fault? no cause they said it was the batteries and it was proven to be the batteries, Was it laughable that they were blaming batteries instead of taking the blame for making a phone out of lower value parts?
Parent
Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So there are two cases now? (Score:5, Informative)
Those computers are generally ruggidized to MilSpec (military specifications). Instead of using your friendly neighborhood Dell, he is probably using a Toughbook or similar unit. These are designed to operate without actually bringing air inside. There are a lot of rumours of these things actually stopping bullets in Iraq, though I can't seem to find a picture. I imagine that the batteries are just as tough, considering the operating enviroments they are designed for.
Parent
Bulletproof Laptop (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Lithium ion battery? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lithium ion battery? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
We beat the British back with Flaming Dells (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:We beat the British back with Flaming Dells (Score:3, Informative)
Actually it was invented by Volta [wikipedia.org]. If you read your link more carefully you'll discover that Franklin's batteries were actually banks of capacitors.
No... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Li-Po use in RC (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the laptop had a hard drop sometime in the not to distant past, got picked up, put on charge and kaboom.
The question is what is the right thing to do? Ban the batteries or make better efforts in consumer education? In the R/C hobby we are smart enough (well the majority anyhow) to treat Li-Pos with respect - but consumer laptops, that's somewhat scary.
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm [laureanno.com]
Super happy fun ball (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Li-Po use in RC (Score:5, Insightful)
Every consumer laptop comes with a thick book stating that each and every component may catch fire, explode, fail to work, cause the end of the world, kill your dog, or any number of other things, and it's your own damn fault if that happens and the manufacturer is not responsible. This means that nobody pays any attention to the 'safety' warnings, because 99% of them are total nonsense.
Consumer education is impossible until the manufacturers stop crying wolf about everything.
Parent
Re:Li-Po use in RC (Score:3)
actually, I've seen the reverse.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I find the RC folks are reckless when it comes to Li batteries. At work, the device that uses the battery has an overvoltage, over temp and undervoltage cutout in hardware in addition to overvoltage, over temp and undervoltage cutouts in software. The battery also has a hardware overcurrent and undervoltage cutout on the cell. This is because the device maker cannot afford to trust the battery and the battery maker cannot afford to trust the device maker, because LIons are just too sensitive to temp, voltage and current.
RC folks meanwhile typically have software undervoltage cutouts but no hardware cutouts on the device. They remove the hardware cutouts on the cell. They use separate chargers that have software overvoltage and overcurrent cutouts and no temp cutouts.
They are many many more times at risk than a consumer device. They get away with it by being careful themselves and because there are 1/100000th as many RC devices as consumer devices.
As to your thing that batteries can blow up after having been in a crash, I don't know where that comes from. Unless the integrity of the pack is compromised, this won't happen. They don't turn into bombs merely by being shaken. If they did, you'd have exploding cell phones everywhere.
Your charger should monitor the temp, current and voltage during charging. If a pack has developed an internal short due to physical damage, it should stop charging. But again, RC chargers seem to be less careful.
(I have an Orbit Microlader. Earlier units were even more primitive!)
Parent
Re:actually, I've seen the reverse.. (Score:4, Interesting)
If the cell dents, there is a possibility that the Anode can short to the Cathode through the thin insulative seperator. This will cause a short that the pack/device has no control over and you get fireworks.
Or, the guts of the cell can shift and press into the bottom and short.
Or (much less likely) if there is some impurity in the mix, it can cause it to shift and puncture the thin seperator.
The cells are actually designed to permanently disconnect inside under certain circumstances to prevent (or at least minimize) crashing airplanes and killing children.
Parent
It's the charger stupid.... (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems to me that low margins are the root cause
Sounds like that joke. (Score:5, Funny)
This is like that, without all the counting.
And now.... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not a big Dell fan... (Score:5, Insightful)
Today I got a letter in the mail from my old insurance agency who is being sued in a class-action lawsuit regarding discrimination based on credit reports against the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Of course, the class action settlement included the phrase "xxx is admitting no wrongdoing in this case..." Maybe there wasn't any wrongdoing; I don't know. But this damned phrase has become so commonplace it was the first sentence I looked for when opening the letter with the details of the settlement.
For once I'd like to see someone step up and take responsibility. The problem is these people read the same headlines I do every day in which some dumbass can sue for whatever reason they deem applies to them and win millions in a settlement.
We can't have companies exposing themselves to such litigation (excepting that there is no real negligence there) and getting sued into obliion. But just once I want to see a company take the high road and say "Yeah, we fucked up. Sorry. What can we do to make it better?"
Dell gets a smiley face in my daily repoirt card for this.
Gamers! (Score:5, Funny)
You may find Dell's new laptop too hot to handle!
It puts you in the middle of the action, with sound effects so real you'll swear you can feel them.
Blazing action so intense it's practically assault and battery!
Plugged in? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, if the battery exploded entirely by itself, a major recall is due...
Autopsy... (Score:3, Funny)
I'm guessing the first one.