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Dell Chastized Over Customer Service

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Sat Jul 08, 2006 07:27 PM
from the dude-i'm-still-not-getting-a-dell dept.
The Register is reporting that Dell recently agreed to give into demands from the UK's Office of Fair Trading and alter the agreements that accompany their hardware. From the article: "The OFT has spent the past few months sparring with Dell over the company's terms and conditions. The two organizations recently agreed to settle their issues with Dell changing contracts and making them "fairer to consumers," the OFT said. The specific changes, however, remain secret as neither the OFT nor Dell will reveal exact terms and conditions alterations and as Dell has kept old contracts online."
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  • hm... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by joe 155 (937621) on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:36PM (#15685001) Journal
    how unfair can the agreements be... we get enough statutory rights to make sure that nothing too bad can happen.
    • Re:hm... (Score:5, Informative)

      by joe 155 (937621) on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:45PM (#15685031) Journal
      figured I might as well expand...

      # limited liability for negligence to the price of the product

      If you agree a price and they accept then they can't later alter this so I fail to see too many problems

      # excluded liability for consequential loss arising out of breach of contract

      This might need looking at although I can't imagine too much which could go wrong, if the product isn't of a merchandisable quality then you can get your money back anyway (because of the statutory rights) - there are also rights to protect you from misleading advertising - if they fail to deliver then you can simply get your money back without too much trouble.

      # excluded liability for oral representations not confirmed in writing, and

      No contract is worth anything if it is not in writing so I can't see how this is a problem

      # required the consumer to notify Dell of any errors in its confirmation of the consumer's order immediately

      You'd expect this anyway, if they refuse to help then cancel because it is within your cooling off period

      - this all seems like it could be solved fairly easily anyway... you can't sign away statutory rights so consumers are safe as far as I can see...
      • required the consumer to notify Dell of any errors

        In the UK, I believe it is customary to spell the company name as Delle.

        --
        Realtime onscreen spell
        checker provided by RC1
        of Firefox version 2.0

      • Re:hm... (Score:5, Informative)

        by DRJlaw (946416) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:57PM (#15685235)
        # limited liability for negligence to the price of the product
        If you agree a price and they accept then they can't later alter this so I fail to see too many problems


        Your Dell laptop explodes due to a faulty lithium ion battery and burns down your house. Dell's liability is limited to the price of the laptop. I see a problem.

        # excluded liability for consequential loss arising out of breach of contract
        This might need looking at although I can't imagine too much which could go wrong, if the product isn't of a merchandisable quality then you can get your money back anyway (because of the statutory rights) - there are also rights to protect you from misleading advertising - if they fail to deliver then you can simply get your money back without too much trouble.


        Consequential damages may be but are not necessarily related to warranties of merchantability and/or truth in advertising. Dell sells you 50 rack mount servers for a video production project that starts on 8/7/2006 and promises a delivery date of 8/1/2006. Dell fails to deliver the servers until two months after the delivery date. You've lost 7 weeks of production time. Those weeks of delay may be compensable as consequential damages.

        # excluded liability for oral representations not confirmed in writing, and
        No contract is worth anything if it is not in writing so I can't see how this is a problem.


        The Statute of Frauds says otherwise. The common law says otherwise. There are plenty of ways to prove the existence of a contract that do not rely on a signed writing. I find it odd that you believe that Dell can make such representations and simultaneously protect itself from liability for making them.

        # required the consumer to notify Dell of any errors in its confirmation of the consumer's order immediately
        You'd expect this anyway, if they refuse to help then cancel because it is within your cooling off period


        I would not expect this at all. The consumer makes an offer for a specified piece of equipment. Dell purports to accept the offer but specifies different equipment. Under the law of contracts the consumer is not obligated to do anything because Dell has failed to accept the original offer, and in fact made a counteroffer (mirror image rule). The professional sales organization shifts the effort required to catch and correct errors onto the consumer. You believe that this is equitable?

        Four strikes. You're out.
    • Re:hm... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Turn-X Alphonse (789240) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:56PM (#15685232) Journal
      The UK is different from the US. We don't go "oh the market will sort it's self out", we go "oi, you stick to the rules or you fuck off". That way if someone is being a bitch to their customers or using too much bullshit to get the truth out of them, people like Trading standards and other government bodies come in. They check it out and get it sorted.

      We're an odd little place and like everyone to play fair no matter what, not just assume the cheats will get theirs via the customers.
  • Leveling the field (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Beuno (740018) <argentina@gma i l . c om> on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:37PM (#15685003) Homepage
    Finally some stories are kicking in that the balance is being pushed in favour of consumers instead of the other way.
    I think corporations should be punished heavily when they try to get away with abusive practices to trim down the ammount of users that get abused and also to be fair to the corporations who really do make an effort in being fair.
    • 1 step forward for individual rights... followed by 50 steps backwards for same rights. That's the way it seems to go.
    • And as a result of all it's cost cutting and cut-throat business tactics, Dell may eventually implode under itself. I'm not saying it will happen overnight, but like many here on Slashdot, I work "in the industry." I work for a small computer sales/service retailer, and over the past 2-3 years I've experienced a sharp increase in the number of Dell computers coming in for service, relative to the number of other brands. Granted, many were for virus/spyware infections, and the large number may be more becaus
      • by RsG (809189) on Saturday July 08 2006, @11:19PM (#15685637)
        And when all or most of the competing companies offer equally cruddy customer service? What then? Just "don't buy from any of them", and do without any support at all?

        The market isn't some mystical force. It isn't sentient, and it doesn't make decisions, no matter how we sometimes anthropomorphasize it. It's a semi-rational human construct that behaves predictably - and it cannot magically "correct" itself if the circumstances don't allow it.

        For market correction to occur spontainiously, there have to be a least two different choices facing a customer, and he has to have access to accurate information about what advantages and drawbacks each choice offers. If either the customer has no source of accurate information before making a purchasing decision, or if he doesn't have two different choices (two identical choices or only one choice are both possible reasons), then the market doesn't correct.

        If you're getting bad support, you've already made a purchase, and the company has gotten your cash. You can avoid them in the future, and tell others to do so as well, but it is entirely possible for a company to get by on one time customers alone. You'd have to know that the company had crappy tech support before you bought their product - and where are you going to get that information? Maybe the only people you know who bought from them never used their tech support. Going online doesn't help either - too much whining one the one hand and too much astroturfing on the other.

        And if you do know that company X has crappy support, then you still need a company Y to turn to that is better in this regard. If no such alternative exists (or is feasble for your circumstances), then there is nothing you can do.

        Free market capitalism is not a panacea. It's better than the alternatives, granted, but it does have drawbacks - and one of those drawbacks is the damage lack of accurate information and choice can do to customers.

        Also, the person you replied to said that misbehaving corporations need to be "punished", right? Isn't that exactly what the free market correcting itself is supposed to be about? Ie, people voting with their wallets, and leaving bad companies in favour of better ones.
  • Wayback machine? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fabu10u$ (839423) on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:39PM (#15685010)
    After they change the online copies, of course, won't you be able to diff them with the Wayback Machine?
  • OK... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Frosty Piss (770223) on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:40PM (#15685013)
    "We've changed the contract, but we aren't telling you how..."
    • Re:OK... (Score:5, Funny)

      by joe 155 (937621) on Saturday July 08 2006, @07:47PM (#15685040) Journal
      thats the old way of doing it; "I changed our deal, pray I don't change it further..."
      • Re:OK... (Score:5, Funny)

        by RsG (809189) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:41PM (#15685192)
        Yeah, except that if Vader used Dell parts, his respirator would crash every half hour. Plus, instead of the neat black colour scheme, his armour would probably have holstein spots. And he'd have to deal with their tech support, which make Sith lords seem charming and helpful by comparison...
    • You said it all.

      I'm sure we all have a "Dell sucks" story, here's mine: financed a refurb laptop as a small business. The machine crapped out. Dell tech support is an oxymoron. I refused to pay for a defective unit only to be informed that the financing company owned the debt (Dell Financial) and they were not responsible for the actual product (Dell proper).

      When a company is keeping secrets, organizing shelter corps and playing other liability games, it just annoys me. When consumer advocates call va
  • Another non-story (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dave420 (699308) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:00PM (#15685076)
    Nothing important, nothing final, nothing being made public. Pure speculation ensues.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:13PM (#15685106)
    Dell's customer service in Canada has fallen so far in Canada over the last 5-7 years that as an IT consultant, I now include "avoid Dell" in my equipment recommendations to my clients. I have read their legals and there are so many "escape clauses" built in that I doubt that Dell could be forced to service anything no matter the cause if they stuck to the exact letter.

    Worse still is their telephone support. I often run across people whose Dell machines have run into problems, and where a clueless telephone support tech has caused them to lose all their machine's data. One client, a tax accountant, lost an extire tax season. I know, I know, backup data - but I think everyone here knows how likely you are to get most users to reliably do so. This is just one of many horror stories.

    I would just love it if Dell Canada were forced to take on some accountability for its products. Then perhaps the small business people they have actually hurt would find they had more when fighting with Dell to get a machine they thought was under warranty working again. At least for now, some have found that their only remedy is to sue.
  • by jrumney (197329) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:16PM (#15685113) Homepage

    I wonder if OFT is also looking at Dells practice of advertising incredibly cheap computers then trying to convince people who call up to order that they need to pay an extra £100 to upgrade the RAM from 256Mb to 512Mb if they want to use broadband, because this PC they advertised "will only work with dialup". Or trying to upsell to the next model up, because this PC is end of line stock, and will "not work anymore in six months time".

  • by DavidD_CA (750156) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:32PM (#15685171) Homepage
    I help my friends and family with their Dells whenever they need it, and every time I've had to contact Dell for support or drivers they have been very prompt and knowledgeable. Even for systems that are out of warranty or hella old.

    Their chat system and website for drivers have been especially useful and very efficient.

    I've never had to send anything in for warranty repair, so I can't comment on that.
  • Clause F1R3 (Score:5, Funny)

    by pookemon (909195) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:34PM (#15685181) Homepage
    "All fires must be extinguished before the return of the product to Dell for servicing."
  • by subxero37 (985222) <subxeroNO@SPAMphatcode.net> on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:36PM (#15685185) Homepage
    that I've worked on were all Dells. Two of them had the same motherboard, both of which were completely dead, and both of which were no older than six months. When I called Dell to request new motherboards (since the machines were under warranty) they promptly told me that they could not replace motherboards. They then offered to send me new heatsinks. Yes, because heatsinks dissipate heat so well when they're placed on a component that can't be turned on. I was never able to coax them to send me new motherboards. I now have two dissatisfied customers. Surely, someone should kick their ass.
  • Serves 'em right! (Score:5, Informative)

    by epp_b (944299) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:43PM (#15685197)
    Hey, I'd be pretty ticked at them too if they sold me a several-thousand-dollar network cable [theregister.co.uk].
  • by Xest (935314) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:46PM (#15685206)
    Dell carries out extremely deceptive marketing practices in the UK, they often advertise on TV and by mailshot really low price laptops and such, however if you phone up for the offer they wont sell you it and will offer you it at a higher price, even if you give the specific offer code. When I spoke to trading standards they acknowledged it's a problem but that as long as they can prove they've sold a few at that price then it doesn't matter if they then try and screw a few thousand other people on it.

    Dell definitely needs kicking into shape, their customer support is attrocious and some of the tactics they use are borderline, or at least should be outright illegal.

    It's just a shame that trading standards are merely getting them to change license agreement or whatever instead of really doing what needs doing - hitting them where it hurts with fines/legal proceedings as they deserve for their disgusting practices.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:48PM (#15685209)
    I was about to buy a laptop from them and did a little online research. The stories of incredible bad service that I read convinced me that it was too much of a gamble. Most of the stories revolved around people spending weeks and months trying to convince Dell that their hardware was broken so they could return it for repair. I didn't buy a laptop from them.

    This situation is way past ironic. Dell got its start by convincing customers that it was safe to buy computers on line. The service was good. Dell sold good hardware that didn't break but if it did break, there was no problem getting a quick repair or a new machine. Boy, have things ever changed!

    My WAG is that there won't be a Dell in five years.
  • Interesting... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cloud K (125581) on Saturday July 08 2006, @08:48PM (#15685211) Homepage
    What I find most interesting about Dell, is that unlike other companies, even their *sales* department is run by a call centre in India.

    The comparison ends there, with Dell. In my experience they are helpful to a fault and bend over backwards to help you out. They are the true model of how Indian Call Centres should be: helpful to the economy but most importantly, helpful to the customer and so incredibly friendly they would do *anything* for you if their English ws good enough. As this article suggests, YMMV.
  • by Proudrooster (580120) on Saturday July 08 2006, @09:24PM (#15685296) Homepage
    In other news, Dell has customer support!?! Wow, I had no idea. Where do I get the number for this customer support, instead of the number for the prescripted question answer line?