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A Solar Race Around the World
Posted by
Zonk
on Sat May 13, 2006 01:22 AM
from the alvin-and-the-chipmunks-did-this dept.
from the alvin-and-the-chipmunks-did-this dept.
garzpacho writes "In Switzerland, two teams are vying to be the first to circle the globe in a solar powered vehicle--one team in a boat, the other in an airplane. The boat, a two person trimaran, is the brainchild of PlanetSolar, who hopes to circumnavigate the world In 80 days. Solar Impulse is fielding the single-pilot plane, which will be capable of taking off under its own power and flying all night. Both groups hope to bring greater attention to solar power, which they believe is more appropriate for alternative transportation than for automobiles."
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solar panels (Score:3)
Maybe for a tram system where the power can go to both the engine and the track?
Re:solar panels (Score:3, Informative)
Re:solar panels (Score:2)
Daytime flights (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretzel Logic, anyone? (Score:3, Funny)
The best way for alternative fuel sources to become popular is for them to become economically viable. By buying a hybrid engine (a hybrid
Re:Pretzel Logic, anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hybrids are an excellent half step because they provide incentive for car companies to improve electrical transmission technology,
Umm, yeah, I'll be a little late today... (Score:5, Funny)
Literally.
Solar-powered circumnavigation? Already done. (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the wind "solar powered"? So humankind has been circumnavigating the globe in "solar-powered" boats for many centuries!
Note: I know some wind currents are driven by the earth's rotation, but the earth rotates because it's orbiting the sun, right? Still solar-powered!
Re:Solar-powered circumnavigation? Already done. (Score:3, Informative)
Well if you go that route (Score:3, Insightful)
Next time you tank remember, it is all natural.
Staying up with the sun is hard (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Staying up with the sun is hard (Score:3, Informative)
links in engilsh (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.solar-impulse.com/scripts/page7655.htm
http://www.planetsolar.org/planetsolar.en.shtml [planetsolar.org]
Stupid strategy (Score:3, Funny)
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Everyone knows solar power is *WAY* more available during the day!
Sailboat? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sailboat? (Score:3, Informative)
But not more reliable. Solar panels could be installed inside a hard shell of (say) lexan and easily survive a hurricane.
Sails and masts are likely
Re:Sailboat? (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately a trimaran covered in solar panels is the worst kind of boat to be in during a hurricane, because its got lots of non removable surface area and its very light. A friend of mine was on board his trimaran during Hurricane Georges [wikipedia.org] in 1998 and he was flipped three times.
Sails and masts are likely to be damaged by the wind.
Sails can be removed, and masts are very strong. I was on board my boat during Hurricane Lenny [wikipedia.org] and the strength of the mast and rigging was not an issue. In olden times with weaker rigging it might have been, but they used to take spars down when not in use.
Why fly at night? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're flying around the world, couldn't you arrange it so it's always daytime?
---
watch funny commercials [tubespot.com]
Re:Why fly at night? (Score:4, Informative)
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Both groups hope to bring greater attention to solar power, which they believe is more appropriate for alternative transportation than for automobiles."
What? That doesn't make any sense. How does a plane flying around the world or a boat floating around the world affect my commute? I don't know about you guys but solar vs gas isn't what stops me from driving a boat or plane to work. That would be cool, commutes would be fun instead of boring traffic, though I bet if everyone did it there would be crashes galore (especially the planes). Plus - why do we have to choose solar power or cars - what I want a solar powered car?
To be fair, one of the teams (boats), for some reason seems to make this comparison. I doubt there are many places where what they say is feasable. I don't care how effecient solar boats are - I can't drive one to work and I bet very very very few people in the whole freaking world can (of course, there are some - but then I bet alot of them do so to avoid traffic. It's no big deal to hit 60-70 in a boat and no traffic, not to mention the "fun" factor. I know I would do so in a heart beat).
As to what the parent article said - I don't see why this makes a difference in perception. I find the challenge pretty neat and plan to follow it (no problems there - great geeky/tech story), but making it happen doesn't really change my commute in any way. Jeese, a wind powered boat made a world wide traversal a few hundred years ago (continent to continent a few thousand years ago) - doesn't make wind powered cars any more useful or practical. A solar transversal isn't going to change much either. Again - not that I don't think this is useful or neat (anything that advances our understanding is worth it - I'm fully aware that solving thier problems may lead to some great advances and wish them great success - I want to see our dependancy on oil vanish for a variety of reasons), if thier goal is to raise perception of solar powered commute this isn't the way.
Back to geeking out - my bet is on the plane. Unless it's *really* slow I can't see it beating the boat. Especially given the plane can fly a fairly straight line (even with air space restrictions) compared to the boat. As to which will be made first - my bet is the boat. If the motor fails you still get to float, a plane loosing power is deadly.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
It captures the attention of the masses, and somebody steps up and says 'I want one of those' and somebody else steps up and says 'I want one something like that' and somebody else steps up and says 'I want one of those!' and the manufacturing of solar panels goes into overdrive and the price comes down and the capability goes up and its affordable to make solar powered buses and the city does that and makes them free for use to cut down on the traffic fumes and all of a sudden your life is better.
Ok, its just the first step..
It's no big deal to hit 60-70 in a boat
Its quite a big deal to reach those kind of speeds in a boat. Its not like getting into a car and putting your foot down, think about what would happen to your car if there were 10cm bumps in the road, and 10cm bumps in the water is nothing.
My bet goes with the boat (Score:4, Interesting)
But, any dolt could take a nice, efficient catamaran, replace the sales with a solar rigging and a trolling motor, load the boat down with some MREs, and start sailing.
Not saying it'd be pleasant, but I'd rather sit on a Hobicat than try to get through the night in an ultralight plane knowing that battery life would just *barely* make it through the night, with almost no margin for error. (and yes, I'm a pilot)
The kind of aspect ratio [wikipedia.org] they're talking about would be mighty difficult to fly, since it would be very prone to flutter, and the difference between the cruising speed and the stall speed would be almost negligable!
Not to mention having to be both very lightweight and also very strong...
Scary!
Better to fuel up a general aviation craft on butanol [butanol.com] call it "green" and be done with it! Really, when you read up on it, butanol is some seriously cool stuff.
1) It mixes freely with gasoline
2) It burns like gasoline, in cars unmodified,
3) It can be made from corn, wheat, cheese whey, just about any agricultural product or byproduct.
4) It handles moisture much better than ethanol.
5) It's possible to extract more energy (in BTU) as butanol from corn then as ethanol.
Seriously, the fuel of the future for the United States is here, and it's butanol. (Bio-Diesel is probably more appropriate for Europe, where they have many more diesel cars than the US which is almost all gasoline-powered)
Just as green, and much easier on the pilot!
Re:My bet goes with the boat (Score:3, Informative)
All very well, but ... (Score:3, Interesting)
What I'd like to see is an "open source" methodology.
If you want to make something happen in say, Linux, you can look at what someone else has already done, then tweak it to make it do what you need it to do. With our advances in bio-tech, surely there must be a future in bio-engineering some specific plant life to produce high amounts of usable energy. I know that there are bacteria that produce h2 etc. but the scale is insufficient.
What I imagine is, a plant that converts prodigious amounts of energy (ie bamboo can grow 6 feet in a day) and subverting that energy so that instead of producing growth, it produces a chemical that can be used to directly power an engine of some variety. An engine is defined as something that converts energy into work done.
In the end, we need a symbiosis to fulfill our transportation requirements. Back in the days, man used a horse or a cow, to pull a cart. The animal got its food from grazing grass which got its energy directly (but not completely) from the sun.
So why can't we follow that approach ? Utilise a very efficient system that nature has "designed" and subvert it to our own ends. After all, fossil fuels are only stored solar power.
Taking nanotech into account, it may be possible to create a muscle structure that when it is working generates an amount of electrical current. The muscle would get its "nutrition" from the chemical produced by the bio-engineered plant. The plant would get its energy from the sun. We could foster the initial growth of the plant in the ocean or tanks (for safety) much like an algae bloom, so we would only have to fill our "tanks" with a green goop once a month for example. The extra compounds the plant needs to survive (minerals etc) would be provided by the dead goop we have already used (think ginger beer plant). We still have to utilise the electrical energy more efficiently of course, but our motors are getting pretty good.
I realise this is all probably very naive, and I'm not a scientist in any way, at all ! But it seems to me that all our thinking has been towards shortcuts, ie. sun -> solar panel -> power instead of taking the natural route of sun -> plant -> food -> animal -> power.
We need to aim at creating a living system.
Maybe I'm talking out of my ninth planet, but the saying "haste makes waste" seems to apply as solar panels aren't very efficient.
Of course, you could say that my ideal involves many more stages and so is less efficient, but each stage would be as close to maximum efficiency as nature has got to already.
I'll get my coat.
Re:All very well, but ... (Score:3, Insightful)
is WAY WAY less efficient than
sun -> solar panel -> power.
sun->plant is something like 1.5% efficient, and still needs to be converted somehow to perform useful work. Compare that to even crappy s