12.8 Petabytes, You Say? 205
MadUndergrad writes "Dr. Jonathan Spanier from Drexel University has come up with a novel way to greatly increase data storage density: water. Specifically, they propose using hydroxyl ions to stabilize minute ferroelectric wires. These wires could be many times smaller than what is possible today, enabling data densities in the neighborhood of 12-13 PB per cubic centimeter. While there are still many problems to be resolved before drives using these can be manufactured this technology does seem promising. For one thing, it would be non-volatile, but could apparently be made to act as RAM. The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor."
Bah (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Bah (Score:5, Funny)
Oblig. Dexter's Laboratory Joke: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oblig. Dexter's Laboratory Joke: (Score:2)
Second, it's funny because it's not funny.
Mod the parent '-1 Culturally Illiterate'
Re:Oblig. Dexter's Laboratory Joke: (Score:2, Insightful)
So how exactly is he karma whoring?
Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the exact text:
Btw... I find it creepy that googling this returned six results.
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:2, Informative)
"That's not <X>, that's my wife!" is a classic punchline. The joke is probably nothing more than a callback to that punchline in an unexpected context.
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:2)
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:2)
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:2)
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mod parent up +5 It does make sense!!!!! (Score:2)
Close, but nobody here has mentioned that the ions are called hydrox ide
Also, alcohols do not release protons, they merely come near a water molecule whose negative dipole from the oxygen pulls the hydrogen away through hydrogen bonding, forming (in ethanol's case) an acetate ion and a hydronium ion.
Such a mess-up with releasing vs. reacting on your part is completely unacceptable. Please visit the restrooms (down the hall, third door on your right) and flush your geek license down one of the urinals b
Re:Oblig. Dexter's Laboratory Joke: (Score:2)
Temperature issues? (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine a device with this technology submitted to freezing temperatures?
Re:Temperature issues? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Temperature issues? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Temperature issues? (Score:2)
That would apply to much of current technology anyway. The time is pretty much over when you could use a hard drive while it was open. The last hard drives larger than 20 GB or so that I've opened have completely broke more or less by just opening the lid for a while and closing it again, because so much as a speck of dust on the platter will result in a head crash.
Likewise, you can't really hope to expose the "components" of a microchip and expect it to work afte
Backup safety? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Backup safety? (Score:2)
You'de still be thirsty... (Score:2)
Re:You'de still be thirsty... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Backup safety? (Score:2)
or, when the new guy has too much to drink at the office party, mistakes the file server for a urinal, lifts the cover...
DMHO is deadly! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:DMHO is deadly! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:DMHO is deadly! (Score:2)
Re:DMHO is deadly! (Score:4, Funny)
The average adult has something like 5x10^16 picograms of this stuff in his or her body, which is a much higher concetration than the EPA safe levels for lead, asbestos or most industrial solvents.
Won't someone please think of the children?!
Re:DMHO is deadly! (Score:2)
Re:DMHO is deadly! (Score:2)
Mercury, however, is almost certainly uncontaminated.
IT'S A JOKE, PEOPLE! (Score:4, Informative)
Chemistry Nazi Mk. II (Score:2)
Wrong. Water is not an ionic compound, so it not be called "hydrogen hydroxide" or "hydrogen oxide" or "hydroxic acid". Molecular compounds (i.e. nonmetals) are named using the numerical prefix system, so dihydrogen monoxide is correct, just as ammonia would be nitrogen trihydride, and methane would be carbon tetrahydride.
What's that smell? (Score:5, Funny)
Until the heat sink fails.
Re:What's that smell? (Score:2)
What are you talking about? This is great: storage and water cooling in one technology!
Re:What's that smell? (Score:2)
What's the big deal? Just use your RAM to cool your CPU. Not keeping it cool enough? Add more RAM.
Misplaced Optimism (Score:5, Insightful)
Um... the fact that this is coming from a university suggests to ME that it might be highly impractical, but of some academic interest.
I mean, "university" may rank above "wacky fly-by-night startup looking to fleece investors" on the ol' Trust-o-meter, but the fact that a few academics are studying something certainly doesn't mean it's even potentially viable as a commercial product.
Re:Misplaced Optimism (Score:5, Insightful)
I fully agree. Having spent the last two years working in a business incubator associated with a major research university, I found the following life cycle of new technologies to be true in 95% of cases:
1. Invent something, file an invention disclosure with the university and ask for patenting the idea.
2. File for all grants you can get.
3. Once you run out of grants, declare your intention to commercialize the technology.
4. Secure some start-up funding, primarily in the form of SBIR/STTR grants and angel funding.
5. Once funding is received, declare that the technology is not yet ready and go back to the lab to write more papers on your technology.
6. Repeat and rinse.
I've seen some really ground-breaking technologies in action. One was proven to decrease the level of emissions by 95%. Another promised to replace current heat sinks with a new design that would eliminate computer fans. Yet another has been around since the 1950s; the lead researcher has invented when he was a grad student. Unfortunately, most researchers at the school I was working at were aware of the fact that in the long term having a technology to work on for another decade or more was more lucrative than starting a company and ending with a miniscule ownership share after venture financing.
Re:Misplaced Optimism (Score:2)
There's no alternative though, you gotta fund the 19 sucky inventions to find the one thats gonna work.
I agree it sucks that frequently the publich funds the 20 investors, and shoulders the loss on the 19 non-working ones, only to see the remaining successful invention benefit some corporation that hires the prof (or that the prof starts) rather than those
Re:Misplaced Optimism (Score:2)
electrolysis? (Score:3, Insightful)
whats left is oxygen and hydrogen, with the electricity in the wires running through the wires be strong enough to create electrolysis?
thats not what i'd call non-volatile.
An Excellent Point (Score:2, Interesting)
Vaporware? (Score:4, Insightful)
Obnoxious Cynicism (Score:4, Insightful)
Despite what my tone may reflect, I'm very curious to your thought process.
Re:Obnoxious Cynicism (Score:2)
If you're a guy in his garage (or some company's garage) or even a whole company and you'd like to get some funding for your project or create some hype in the market to get investors, you write a report/press release, which is reviewed by managers/venture capitalists/the public, the majority of w
Reality disconnect (Score:3, Funny)
You haven't attended university on our planet, have you?
Overheard at Drexel University Lab Party (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Overheard at Drexel University Lab Party (Score:2)
That sounds like a Monica Lewinsky quote.
Re:Overheard at Drexel University Lab Party (Score:2)
But whats even scarier is that my old university was mentioned on
University (Score:5, Insightful)
Like Pons & Fleishman's cold fusion? Like the recent Korean cloning fiasco? Like the forestry research papers that were pulled because of political and corporate pressure? Like so many others that have been in the recent news?
Problem is that scientists and researchers can be corrupted by fame, fortune or pressure just like other humans.
I'm not saying that this technology is bogus - I know nothing about the technology or the people involved. But the fact that it comes from a university doesn't offer any special guarantees in my book.
Re:University (Score:2)
Yes, just like those. The statement by MadUndergrad was, 'this gives me hope', not 'this must be true'.
You make a good point, that science is always evolving, and that we should not stop questioning.... but in a very antagonistic way... could it be...
Problem is that scienti
Re:University (Score:2)
Ahhhh! I get it, you're one of those! "I hear the jury's still out on this Science thing." Tell me, which is your particular axe: is it Darwinism, or climate change? And by all means, set me straight if I have this wrong somehow. We are interested in the truth here, after all.
I wish I had a mod point to give you!
Re:University (Score:2)
Re:University (Score:2)
Absolutely, unequivocally not.
I'm one of those people that understands that conforming to the principles of the scientific method is a very different thing than being called a scientist.
And fortunately over time the scientific method works quite well. A hypothesis is formed, gets tested, revised, and is peer-reviewed. Predictions can be correctly based on the hypothesis. It becomes a theory, etc.
People who claim to be
Re:University (Score:2)
Fair enough, thanks for the response. I don't q
Re:University (Score:2)
Re:University (Score:3, Informative)
Get corrupted? Most people there are already corrupt. The little media contact at the bottom of the press release (Phil Teranova) is a manipulative bastard who would stab his mother in the back if it could make him a dime.
Re:University (Score:2)
But our department is also very good. We have great faculty and it's small enough so that you actually get to know pretty much everybody.
BTW - Taki's not so bad, having actually talked to him in person.
Re:University (Score:2)
Re:University (Score:2)
Ripping off a customer for a quick buck? Maybe not. Exagerating claims to get next year's grant or to boost one's chances for tenure? Certainly.
Re:University (Score:2)
100 Millenia of Data (Score:5, Funny)
Thats great until during that 100 millenia you encounter the next Ice Age, it freezes stopping its data transfer to only playing one song, "I Got You Babe" by Sonny & Cher
- for eternity.
Re:100 Millenia of Data (Score:2)
Yeah, then you're stuck in Punxatawney, PA, and keep living the same day over again [imdb.com].
Re:100 Millenia of Data (Score:2)
Today is tomorrow. It happened! (Score:2)
Yes, and it is a grand spectacle of human superstition well worth driving all the way up to Punxsutawney, PA.
Where to begin? (Score:2)
The RAM/NVRAM thing for one... RAM is for speed; NVRAM (including disk drives with random-access method drivers) is for persistent storage. There's no reason to believe that the two won't be the same, but there's also no information given here showing that this stuff is as fast as any RAM.
Thermodynamics for another.
The scaling of density figures ignoring spacing elements.
When did
Core memory LIVES! (Score:4, Insightful)
HAR HAR HAR (Score:3, Insightful)
Start cranking 'em out, folks.
good idea (Score:2)
Hey Clippy, I forgot what I (Score:5, Funny)
User: Hey Clippy search for
Clippy: I see, you want me to spend the rest of eternity searching 13 petabytes for your stupid spreadsheet??! I quit!! User: This maybe the first effective way to get rid of that little twerp.
poster hasn't worked much with universities (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that this is coming out of a university gives me hope that this technology won't turn out to be just so much vapor.
<rant>i don't think the poster has worked with many universities. my experience with using them as subs on r & d projects has been highly mixed — occasionally, you'll find a group that just rocks. the problem is that the remaining 7-9 out of 10 times, you end up just replacing the components that the university was supposed to deliver because they either (a) failed to deliver anything at all (not uncommon) or (b) delivered code that was so horrendously broken that it was less effort to redo their pieces than to shepherd them through the process of fixing things.</rant>
before i'm flamed to death: please note that i didn't say all universities suck (and in particularly, i didn't imply that your university sucks).
Re:poster hasn't worked much with universities (Score:2)
This _is_ fark.com right? No?
Re:poster hasn't worked much with universities (Score:2)
Re:poster hasn't worked much with universities (Score:2)
Re:poster hasn't worked much with universities (Score:2)
Couple of questions (Score:5, Funny)
I would have said, If this is vaporware I'd be steamed...
I suppose this will give a whole new meaning to the term "The computer froze up"!
Will we litterally need a bit bucket for overflow?
I better stop now.
Re:Couple of questions (Score:2)
Bad physics (Score:5, Informative)
"Ferroelectric materials possess spontaneous and reversible electric dipole moments. These dipole moments are times when the material gains a charge, in this case an electric one. For example, the Earth's magnetic field generates a dipole moment that causes compasses to face north"
First sentence is correct. Second sentence is baloney. A dipole moment is not anything to do with time, and an electric dipole moment does not mean a material gains a net charge, although it might correspond to a charge developing on a certain surface. Third sentence: the dipole moments associated with the earth's magnetization are nothing to do with the dipole moments in a ferroelectric material. The former are the result of intrinsic magnetic moments in atoms, the latter the result of differing charge distributions in materials. Similar names, completely different things.
Re:Bad physics (Score:2)
About those CC's (Score:2)
And what's the density of current storage? While it has a lot of square centimeters, current coatings are rather thin. What would a cubic centimeter of current magnetic disc storage store?
Re:About those CC's (Score:3, Insightful)
If you stacked the platters you'd get a lot of density but you can't read it because the arm won't fit between two touching plates.
Tom
That's the secret, see? (Score:4, Funny)
They just give you lots of little boxes to pour your data into. When you fill up about 10 of 'em, you just slap some duck tape on them, scribble a half-ass lable with a tiny magic marker, pack it into your Tonka truck with about 10 others, and push it to the other side of the data center. I call this last part the Tonka Transport Layer (TTL), and it offers the highest transfer rates in the history of networking!
The RFC requires that you make 'VROOM! VROOM!' noises and smash it into at least one cow-orker's foot along the way. My 5 year old has already mastered this technology.
Animes Galore !!! (Score:2)
It has become too difficult to cope with all these hoards of anime - no hard disks ever big enough, no cd writer fast enough -
Cavalry on the way it seems. We can speed up 'acquisition' of anime eh ?
Re:Animes Galore !!! (Score:2)
Maybe it would be logical to employ an old unused computer in the network as an anime server at home. With an upgraded hd of course. And same machine would help greatly in 'acquisitions'.
Don't you know what they have done?!? (Score:2)
I tried to make one of these myself... (Score:3, Funny)
What did I do wrong?
Take it easy on academic research (Score:3, Interesting)
I was going to write just how incorrect this statement is, but after reading previoius comments, I feel I need to defend academic research instead of bash it.
The reason why academic research is not likely to pump out an actual product is because it is not the goal of academic research to create a commercially viable project. The goal is usually to explore the basic underpinnings of something of interest, in this case the possibility of hydroxyl ions to stabilize minute ferroelectric wires. Corporations come along later and add engineering to those principles and produce the products we use.
Those who are saying that academic researchers are con men [slashdot.org] in search of funding [slashdot.org] are overstating their case. There are examples of cheating and overstating cases in academic research but they are rare. There are also examples of corporations doing basic research, but they are becoming more rare, too. Bell Labs has all but disappeared, IBM hasn't won my Nobels lately.
Academic research does what it does very very well and quite cheaply (see how much a grad student makes compared to well, anything, really). Corporatations do their research well, too. Just don't confuse the two.
Jack
Re:Take it easy on academic research (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you misspelled "bring in grant money" and "write publishable papers."
If the grants happen to go to, or the papers happen to be written by, somebody who's interested in the subject, that's a bonus. It's not required.
Re:Take it easy on academic research (Score:2)
Vaporware? (Score:2)
Aww Dang (Score:2)
Just make sure you cool it well (Score:2)
per *CUBIC* centimeter---that's volume (Score:2)
This doesn't address the problem of access, but mere layout. How many cc's of whatever the storage material is does a current high capacity disk contain? I'd wager not many. The desire is generally for as thin a layer as possible to reduce the size of the magnetic domains. Disks used to be metal, but now they're glass (lagely) because of this.
Re:per *CUBIC* centimeter---that's volume (Score:2)
having trouble with this.... (Score:2)
This means you can (Score:2)
vapor? (Score:2)
Hope they keep the temp under 212F - or it'll all be vapor
Army research only ? (Score:2)
I guess if it really does give 12 petabytes, it will be restricted to classified army usage *only*...
I hope it turns out useful, too (Score:2)
Yeah, if this effort ended up in failure, I'd be steamed too.
A disruptive innovation (Score:2)
Even if it were possible to turn this technology into a commercial venture, I don't think it would be allowed to see the light of day. The article tempts the reader to imagine the following products:
In reality, if someone brought a product
Great News! (Score:2)
Cap'n Crunch (Score:4, Funny)
Do I see on the horizon a new implementation of PERL's freeze() and thaw() ??
Meh - maybe in PERL 6...
Re: Now we only need (Score:2)